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How long is ahri going to be a god tier solo queue pick?

MunchCrunchLunch··14 votes·3,023 views

I've been playing for a year and a half and shes been god tier mid laner for all this time. And someone just told me she has been for 5 seasons. where is the diversity at?. can't we trim some of her power to make her a balanced pick instead of a powerful pick?. I mean shaco getting nerfed for having 52% winrate meanwhile ahri at 52-55% winrate for 2 years? wtf.

how dare kog maw have a playrate of 0.5% in mid lane and high winrate. lets nerf him instead of the most played mid laner that has been god tier for many seasons.

tldr why do you gut/nerf other mid laners or champions (unrelated to pro play). that get high winrate for a patch or two and meanwhile ahri has been god tier for years and shes untouched. shaco winrate is 52% for 2 patches. lets nerf him. its not like mostly his mains play him.

she has a negative winrate against only 2 champions

http://champion.gg/champion/Ahri/Middle.

if we go to a reasonable amount of data. she has negative winrate against 0 CHAMPIONS?

how is she balanced?

61 Comments

Linna Excel4 votes

She's not god-tier. She's good, but she has her weaknesses. If she were god-tier she'd be more heavily picked in master, challenger, and pro games.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

am talking about solo queue thats nonsesnse. nobody plays shaco or ap kog maw in pro play.

literally every single champion in the game that ever reached 53% winrate got nerfed. EXCEPT. make a fucking guess

AHRI. whoop de doo.

blitzcrank got nerfed despite seeing 0 play in pro play. I've seen 2 or 3 ahri picks in pro play.

Rákãñ2 votes

You have to admit that Blitzcrank's kit is more overloaded than Ahri's kit. -A grab (Q), Silence (R), and a knock Up (E).

While Ahri Charm (E) can no longer stop dashes or unstoppable effects like it used to.

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

Stopping dashes, fine, but unstoppable effects? Sion ults, gets hit by charm, and... stops his ult? Huh? I want to see this.

DunkinNoobs4 votes

Ahri is the kind of champ that Riot wants to be popular. Doesn't dominate the meta when she's strong, has lots of counterplay, has lots of potential expression for mastery, and fits decently well into basically any composition. She doesn't do anything particularly well and doesn't force other champs out of the meta by being popular. There's always going to be popular champions in League and if you had to choose, Ahri is a good candidate. Champions like Vayne are not.

Rock MD3 votes

She's allowed to stay that way because competitively she's below the bar so Riot doesn't really give a shit unless she's downright breaking the game.

See; Tank Yi last season. That was a nightmare.

MunchCrunchLunch2 votes

tank yi got destroyed after being a thing for like 3 months. what is your point? tank yi didn't stay

Rock MD2 votes

{quoted}

tank yi got destroyed after being a thing for like 3 months. what is your point? tank yi didn't stay

Tank Yi was destroying solo queue ONLY.

Tank Yi was breaking the game and constantly banned.

Ahri is neither a constant ban nor is she unhealthy and absolutely breaking the game. Therefore, even if she's strong, she likely will not get changes unless the meta shifts.

Guy Fox Teemo3 votes

Never because she's been mediocore for months now. Shes not OP shes just always decent.

Rákãñ3 votes

How much nerfs do you want on the poor fox? She is good where she is. Any good cc and coordinated team play can shut her down easily as with other champs. And sure, the movement speed with Q was a good buff, but in the same patch (patch 5.2) they also removed her damage with "+20% damage to charmed targets."

Plus other charm nerfs.

Patch 5.8: IRRESISTIBLE: Charm no longer interrupts 'Unstoppable' effects (such as Malphite's R - Unstoppable Force, Hecarim's R - Onslaught of Shadows and Vi's R - Assault and Battery)

Patch 6.4: STONE COLD FOX: Charm no longer interrupts dashes (Charm will still apply after their movement ends)

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

those are nerfs? bug fixes wtf

Rákãñ1 votes

I check the patch notes. It wasn't under the category of bugs if I recall correctly.

RavenMagus1 votes

I think the first one was a bug fix, the second was a nerf.

ScissorsNstuff2 votes

Until she gets her yearly kit grooming.

Ahri duh

#AhriFancultBanner

btw ahri is allowed to be strong because she's the direction they want league to go in. While these outdated or failed mages are getting shoved out of mid and into support by the future of league, ahri is embracing it and making sexy scat poop all over this meta. This has been a goal ever since Morello saw the action packed game between her and orianna in the S2 world finals that breathed new life into this game.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

ahri does too many damn things well. she has everything you want in a champion's kit. either nerf her or bring other champions to her level end of discussion.

ScissorsNstuff4 votes

Ahri is hot and is better at everything than your champion even if she doesn't actually do it.

But ahri doesn't do too many things well. You just fail to give value to anything that either doesn't support your argument or doesn't support your twisted perspective. Its probably a mix of both.

Name any champ and I can tell you an advantage they WOULD have if they were hawt like ahri.

No bias whatsoever

#AhriFancultBanner

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

ok

ScissorsNstuff5 votes

go ahead, name any champion other than ahri. I understand if it takes a little effort during a conversation about ahri to discuss the other champs who only exist so she has someone to win against. But if you think hard and use the cheat sheet in the emoti lists you can come up with something.

Spice POWAH1 votes

Urgot

ScissorsNstuff3 votes

shields are predamage mitigation while healing is post damage mitigation.

That means that urgot will be better at handling attacks from burst champs than ahri under similar conditions which this case means that ahri can't rely on her cc.

Urgot also has defense shred and heavier sustained damage

Put simply one of the most striking differences between the two is that

Ahri does alright at sieging

but

Urgot is the sort of anti-siege champ that makes Ahri not want to try and break said siege without some heavy duty help

Urgot also has more team utility if being hawt doesn't count as team utility. Ahri ahri is hawter even if you are memeing.

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

This is true. Nothing supports his/her argument at all. I can try to hep you out for anything this player may try to questioned. In my opinion, Ahri has a better neutrality than good things. Agree? Disagree?

And Finally: Which is favorite skin? I want to say Foxfire Ahri but I hate the lack of fire particles and sound animation. HOT.

AhriFancultBanner

ScissorsNstuff1 votes

I actually like her dynasty skin a lot.

Her original four skins were perfect for each season though and then she got more stuff. For different events. xD not sure what to use each one for

classic = autumn midnite = winter dynasty = spring foxfire = summer

popstar = festive holidays challenger = serious or semiserious tournaments or celebrating worlds schoolgirl = formal holidays maybe arcade = fun competitions or celebrating random tournaments

edit

not sure what the first part means but

Ahri is hawt therefore logic

#AhriFancultBanner

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

Thanks for that wonderful information! The skin for Popstar, Challenger, Schoolgirl and arcade. The elements I figured out on my own. (It is nice to see that someone else confirms my suspicions).

AhriFancultBanner

The first part was referring back to the post. I was agreeing with you as of how this player did not support their argument and how you said Ahri is not as great, but still "hawt". That was all, really.

Back to skins: I have Dynasty Ahri, and that must be my highest used skin due to her Dance is something different and is visually appealing. (I am not a huge fan of PopStar.) One thing I do not like is how misleading the portrait is. The portrait has Ahri's has a a pale white colour but the model is brown. I have no complaints at all, I just don't understand that contradiction.

ScissorsNstuff1 votes

lol riot does that all the time. xD took them forever to fix irelia's coloring (which they still haven't really done as well as they could)

But yes, if you want to understand ahri's weaknesses you have to go a bit further up the learning curve but to put it in very simple terms take any part of her kit and look at the actual costs of doing anything she does.

For example, what's the minimum cost of using her passive or rather whats the best mana to healing ratio she can get.

Sure she has mobility but at what cost does she use it. If you gank ahri and she escapes with her ult you actually succeeded lol

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

I will be completely honest with you: It is because of those issues that I have the play style I currently have: passive. I do not like her mana cost so I rarely q while lv 3 or under (I use auto attacks to get minions. It is a pain as I am not perfect with her auto attack damage and minions screw me up a lot. Which is why I am practicing using the smoother Foxfire Ahri skin to get a better feel). Usually by the time I get to lv 4 or 5, I have 75% of my mana or more while the enemy has 20% or less. Not to mention that I do not go for Doran Ring but rather Sapphire Crystal to start with Morell and get that passive to great use. I will hate Riot if they do indeed weaken Morell's AP amount and, most importantly, that passive. When I push the minions under the enemy turret, I tend to back off and wait on the closer half of my side of the lane so I do not have to waste my ult to escape. All these issues I have incorporated to my play style that has infected my other mid lane mages. It is rough. But it works so I can be a bully when the enemy only has enough mana for one spell and I can keep going. All these issues I have adapted to. Wow. Did not think of that before now. Also, Ahri's ult escape is the replacement of flash. A flash escape is always good. That is a successfully gank. It is just on a 110 second cool down rather than 300 seconds. (Because of Morell, I usually see 90ish)

Skin talk: Really? Riot has issues with the colouring with other champs? I am tempted to get Atlantean Syndra who, from what I see, does not have any colouring nor sound issues so it is frustrating see Ahri does with that skin. (Thankfully, my eyes are good and I CAN see the texture/shade difference from skin to skin but my word, what is he point of it being blue all around?) That is disappointing.

ScissorsNstuff1 votes

I think the coloring issue was just something they made up lol.

But as for her mana costs..

A lot of times I just go item 1056 item 1056 for a long time since it stacks so damn hard with itself lol

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

I personally don't want to do double Ring simply because that is 800 gold postponed on any item. Especially with me trying to get in the habit of getting a clears throat Control Ward, not pink, that can add up to 1000 gold postponed. I am aware you can sell the rings but I'd rather get that Morell and be a lot more aggressive when I am an item ahead of my enemy. In addition, my cs isn't great. Like I said, I use auto attacks to get minions for the first few levels, so getting cs is tricky. So I rely on my runes to do early game AP damage and thus I go straight into getting mana for sustain.

ScissorsNstuff1 votes

item 3165 = 100 ap for 2900 with some other stuff

item 1056 item 1056 item 1058 = 90 ap for 2500 but makes you slightly tankier and builds into stuff like item 3285 faster and solves your earlygame sustain issues faster than item 3802

with enough gold left over for item 2003 x 2 since 100 less gold for mana + hp.

Its a safer and more mana efficient start

overall you lose 480 gold but you could hold onto these for the vast majority of the game.

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

Luden's Echo gives 100 AP but no mana. I go for Morell due to the mana sustain. Not to mention that Echo is 3200 Gold, so 300 gold more. I do understand where you are coming from though. But I do use my abilities, I have health sustain (I don't use her abilities a lot but I do use it because passive to keep my health up). So I use Morell for the mana sustain. Luden's Echo is usually my second item for the movement speed. (I am finding this very informational, thanks.)

ScissorsNstuff1 votes

what ends up happening is that

item 1056 item 1056 can replace item 3165 for mana

If that's all you need item 3165 for then you may as well just go item 1056 item 1056 and due to getting 8 mana per minion (48-56 per wave) you then get more mana just by building damage

item 3165 does it better but not 2100g better and gives no defense

The only thing you really get out of item 3165 that isn't replacable is 20% CDR which can be achieved with item 3108 item 3158 for 2000g but if you go this far down this route you'll need to invest heavily in damage and will probably end up getting item 3165 to hit max CDR as fast as possible if you are up against a tanky team or item 3285 item 3135 if you are up against something else.

you'll also need to build item 3108 into something which can also go into a defensive item like item 3001

TL;DR

What starting item 1056 actually does is makes ahri very flexible in her early playpattern

it also affects her early farming which may be why you struggle to farm like you mentioned.

Another advantage is when it actually lets you go back to base and how quickly you can get defense

It can be used in general but the champs you really want to use such a strategy against are champs like Annie Anivia Ezreal LeeSin Lucian Shaco MonkeyKing Yasuo Leblanc Kayle Malzahar Ziggs and anyone else who does something silly during the earlygame

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

Hmm. I go Morell for the 100 AP, the 20 cdr and the 20 5 mana back after a kill/assist. The Grevious wound sounds nice but after some patch, they got rid of the animation for it so I have no clue if it still works.

It could be that I am heavily underestimating the power of The Ring but with 60 HP, 15 AP, 50% mana regen, and mana for every kill, I fail to see the early game power behind this item. I think that is my fault. I understand everything you said about Luden's and such, but I think just understanding Doran's power is my problem.

Spice POWAH7 votes

ikr? she literally can heal from 0-100, has a built-in GA and shields 4 days along with a teleport and starts the game with 6 rabadon's.

kapparoni

Ark Sorcerer4 votes

Come again? Her passive? Her passive is better for lane sustain than actual healing. Marksmen and lifesteal can easily trump her passive. GA? What GA? 6 Raba... oh Ok. Took me way too long to figure out what you were doing. Carry on.

Spice POWAH1 votes

Yeah, I learned that I have to put a mandatory kappa for posts like that when I joked that Camille is a support because she has hard CC and a slow, and you can't tell me otherwise because Brand Annie Velkoz Veigar

I was joking that it seems like anyone can be a support if they have one cc ability.

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

I caught on.. I just wanted to continue with the post because.. why not? Also Support... that is Riot's definition of support, yes. Ranged crowd control. You see champs like Zyra or Syndra get classified as secondary support for no real reason other than their long range root/stuns.

50000000000000001 votes

This is pretty close to Zilean mid

Ark Sorcerer3 votes

No end of discussion.

Look at Ahri's AP ratios is comparison to other mid lane mages. She is on the lower end. With a 35% Ratio with just her q is disgustingly low for a mage. (Lets ignore that true damage for now, lets focus on the magic damage). Every other burst mage have much, much, higher ratios, usually 50% or higher. Ahri can't be nerfed anymore due to her ratios as is.

But you may end of getting your way, for all mages anyway. Riot has their eyes set up on lowering AP for items. With items like Rylai's Crystal Scepter (optional item on her) being nerfed, I do not think you have to worry all that much about Ahri being a huge power house. Morell gets nerfed next, she may be out of the game. Too many high AP items gone for a low AP ratio mage. Before you know it, Veigar will be the new replacement since he could care less about these item changes.

BoilTheOil2 votes

utility young one

Soraka Rules1 votes

Yoda ::O

Brain Errör 4041 votes

Mobility* Ahri's charm isn't near as reliable as other abilities when it comes to utility. She's good for picks, that's about it.

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

(Be quite!! I am trying to win an argument here and I do not need you mentioning the reason why her AP ratios are so low. This is very basic, yes, but it does not mean that this player knows this! SHHH)

Rockm Sockm2 votes

Her damage is relatively low and requires you to land two skill shots, including the second half of the Q.

She is the definition of just ok. She doesn't excel at any one thing.

She is skill shot reliant and her mobility is tied to a long cd.

She requires you to outplay to succeed.

She hasn't been seen in the Lcs in forever.

Conversely, you can pick her into any comp and play safe against any matchups up.

Sounds like op got outplayed and lost his shit.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

god I wonder how she has been in top 5 winrates for 5 seasons?

2Charmnot2Charm1 votes

{quoted}

god I wonder how she has been in top 5 winrates for 5 seasons?

God i wonder how often she gets picked/ban in the last 3 seasons OH WAIT.

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

Not much... I don't think this player has heard of the fact that champs with high win rates usually have low play rates.

2Charmnot2Charm1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ark Sorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NYEodEJo,comment-id=000a000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-11T19:17:46.343+0000)

Not much... I don't think this player has heard of the fact that champs with high win rates usually have low play rates.

Ignore last message i didnt read right. Also forgot to put it pro games in the first message.

Lady Hammerlock2 votes

Its due to Ahri being balanced, yeah she can be frustrating but she isn't broken or overpowered in anyway

Does she have clear strengths? Yes Are her weaknesses clear? Yes Also you might think landing charm and her Q are easy af but truly it really isn't

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

Well, if you don't know how to land a line skills shot. All I have ever used were line skill shot champs -- Ahri, Xerath, Zyra, Thresh, Blitz. Just saying but otherwise you would be correct.

DoktorKaiser1 votes

She is quite annoying and has too good laning phase for how mobile and deadly she is, she has no real weakness except hard CC but that counts for everyone. BUT I dont think she is OP and I kind of feel like she falls of late game. Definitely hate her because she started the trend of highly mobile, good at everything champions, but she abuses it the least unlike some cancer samurai. All in all I dont like her, I hate laning against her but she is quite managable with enough counterplay in theory, I would nerf her W because its her only non skillshot and hits too hard for how idiotic it is to use it.

Ark Sorcerer3 votes

Please look at the damage it deals (her w). Both the range and the reduced damage it deals on the target makes her w weak as it is.

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