Why does Morg ult hit so hard?

Unreformed Shaco··2 votes·811 views

300 Damage + 140% scaling at level 6 from ? Better nerf Syndra ult (270+60%)

Why is this AoE, CC skill allowed to remain in League without some sort of prerequisite?

She doesn't even need her Q to kill squishies because of the ridiculous damage from her ult which is the exact reason that Veigar was reworked, expect he atleast had to click on his target.

I can live with her incredibly high damage CC Q. I can live with her instant waveclear 700 damage W. You can walk away from those to reduce the damage. I can live with her 6000 damage shield making her immune to CC and guaranteeing she will win every trade.

What I can't understand is why her auto target long range slowing tether ultimate is allowed to hit so hard, especially when the tether range is almost double the cast range.

How are you supposed to lane against that, knowing any time you walk within 600 units of her, you are dead/flash?

23 Comments

Yrzen4 votes

The prerequisite is that she stay in range of every target for 3 seconds, otherwise the damage is halved and there is no CC.

Syndra's ult with 4 balls, the absolute minimum she should ever ult with, is 360+80%, and goes up by 90+20% with every additional ball, but that's not important.

Veigar was reworked because 1. Punishing your opponent for building AP is bad game design and 2. Pressing one button to one-shot someone at full health instantly feels bad for the victim. At no point in the game can Morgana do this, it's mathematically impossible. Even if we pretend the 3 whole seconds of counterplay you have against her doesn't exist, she still needs roughly 1000 AP at level 16 to kill a 1500-health, 30 magic resist target. (Which doesn't exist; everything else has more health or magic resist by level 16.)

You're exaggerating egregiously. Annie's Tibbers' aura alone does 900+450%, and it used to be about double that before they updated Annie. Nobody cares though, because you're not meant to sit next to Tibbers, letting him wail on you.

You are clearly complaining from the perspective of a mid-lane mage, otherwise the remark about waveclear and winning trades with black shield doesn't make sense. If you're a playing a mobile mage like Ahri or Leblanc, you can just dash away from her ult. If you're playing a burst mage like Annie or Veigar, you can aim to burst her down through her black shield, as black shield isn't terribly strong without points in it, and it is always maxed last. It also has a long cooldown, so you can bait it out with pokes from behind minions (or after baiting out a Q from a safe distance) and then engage while it's down. Her Q is a root, not a stun, so she can't exactly stop you from fighting back. If all else fails, you could just play safe. You know, avoiding confrontation, letting her zone you off of minions while away from your tower, not dying. Lots of champions do it because they don't like the matchup.

It's allowed because there's no problem with it. Out of the 4 abilities in her kit, it is the least deserving of complaints.

Unreformed Shaco1 votes

{quoted}

You are clearly complaining from the perspective of a mid-lane mage, otherwise the remark about waveclear and winning trades with black shield doesn't make sense. If you're a playing a mobile mage like Ahri or Leblanc, you can just dash away from her ult. If you're playing a burst mage like Annie or Veigar, you can aim to burst her down through her black shield, as black shield isn't terribly strong without points in it, and it is always maxed last. It also has a long cooldown, so you can bait it out with pokes from behind minions (or after baiting out a Q from a safe distance) and then engage while it's down. Her Q is a root, not a stun, so she can't exactly stop you from fighting back. If all else fails, you could just play safe. You know, avoiding confrontation, letting her zone you off of minions while away from your tower, not dying. Lots of champions do it because they don't like the matchup.

It's allowed because there's no problem with it. Out of the 4 abilities in her kit, it is the least deserving of complaints.

Bullshit.

At level 6 you do not have the damage to 100-0 her with black shield.

The thing that pissed me off was the complete and utter lack of counterplay her all in at 6 had. She missed her snare, so she black shielded and walked at me. She pressed R. I can't burst her 100-0 with her shield up, and I can't CC her to walk away. Her R finished and she pooled with ignite to finish me off. We were both at 100%, both with only Dorans IIRC. Both 0/0/0 with similar CS (not that it matters since no one backed).

How is that healthy design? She didn't land the key part of her kit, and there is no way of escaping her ult without flash. No champ should be able to 100-0 their target when missing skills, especially early game.

DrCyanide1 votes

You do know magic damage can remove the shield, letting you then apply CC? It's a one point wonder Mid, so 70 +70%AP shield. At most that's going to be a 140 damage shield by 6. You should be able to deal at least that much if your complaining about not being able to 100-0 her. Worse case scenario, you can buy boots by 6 to get out of range. Merc treads work great against her.

Yrzen2 votes

Few champions have the damage to 100-0 an opponent. That's what poking people down is for. It's a standard pattern of play for burst mages in the early game, but really, black shield with a Doran's ring and 3 tier 3 AP quintessences gives her black shield 91 health. Most mages can break that with their leveled ability.

You scenario sounds biased. The stun on Morgana's ult is 1.5 seconds. Assuming it takes you one second to get out of Tormented Soil, With the rotation you described, she should deal roughly 511 damage with no magic resist runes against someone with the lowest magic resist possible. This doesn't include masteries like thunderlord's or summoner's like ignite, but just how many times did she auto-attack you?

Let's take Syndra for example. (Who has the lowest magic resist possible by the way, but even being a squishy champion, has 901 health without runes) Syndra's Q+W in that order will not only break Morgana's shield, but stun her and push her away, letting the Syndra break the ult. This effectively reduces Morgana's damage to 129 while dealing (assuming 3 AP quints) 96 damage through black shield and depriving Morgana of her ult and a good opportunity to force you into her W. While Black shield is still on cooldown, Syndra can continue to follow up with the low cooldown on her Q, her still unused E and her very potent ult. (Which altogether would be an additional 554 damage. If you chased her down for a few more seconds and hit her with a third Q for a 6 ball ult, you would do an extra 195 damage, her ultimate doing a total of 576 damage. (435 after magic resist) At level 6, Morgana has 977 health. 96+554+195=845 damage. Masteries, ignite, stray minion aggro, auto attacks, or pokes beforehand should take care of the remainder. It can be done.

Too lazy to calculate a second example but I doubt you'd appreciate it anyway.

It's important to recognize the danger enemy champions present, but it's also important to recognize where their strengths are less impressive than they seem.

Unreformed Shaco1 votes

{quoted}

Few champions have the damage to 100-0 an opponent. That's what poking people down is for. It's a standard pattern of play for burst mages in the early game, but really, black shield with a Doran's ring and 3 tier 3 AP quintessences gives her black shield 91 health. Most mages can break that with their leveled ability.

You scenario sounds biased. The stun on Morgana's ult is 1.5 seconds. Assuming it takes you one second to get out of Tormented Soil, With the rotation you described, she should deal roughly 511 damage with no magic resist runes against someone with the lowest magic resist possible. This doesn't include masteries like thunderlord's or summoner's like ignite, but Just how many times did she auto-attack you?

It's important to recognize the danger enemy champions present, but it's also important to recognize where their strengths are less impressive than they seem.

3 autos.

That 91 health doesn't include her MR, putting it up to 120.

https://webmshare.com/Ad7Qz

Link for fight in question.

Yrzen1 votes

91 health is the health of the shield. MR does not increase the health of the shield. The damage calculated does include her MR, even against the shield, though I admit I forgot to include the health bonus Doran's ring provides in Morgana's (and Syndra's) health amounts.

In the exchange you linked, you could have survived if you utilized your auto attacks more, ulted her, and ignited earlier. From 2 seconds in, Morgana is visibly eating Biscuits to heal herself.

In this 12 second video, you get into auto range at 3 seconds, get ulted at 4 seconds, get stunned at 8 seconds, (Morgana's ult has a .5 second delay at the beginning) ignite her at 8 seconds, become unstunned at 9 seconds and die at 11 seconds. In the moments in between, you auto attack her twice; once at the beginning and once before you are stunned. Before the last auto, she has over 400 health and after it, she has under 400 health. (This is before ignite) At level 6, Ignite does 170 true damage. With a Doran's Ring and no magic resist runes on Morgana, Brand's ult will do 82 damage, since there are no minions around. With two additional autos, (three is easily possible, but I figure it shouldn't be demanded on Brand) you will do 96 additional damage, totaling to 348. The reduced healing from an earlier ignite, masteries, (especially masteries) and the remaining runes (AP Glyphs or Magic Penetration Marks) should make up the remaining damage needed to finish her off.

I don't see what's the problem here. Morgana makes use of 3 of her abilities and you make use of 3 of yours. What do you want to hear here? That she has a stronger level 6 power-spike than a Brand without minions? Because most champions do. One might even argue it would be unwise for Brand to get into auto range with most enemies if there are no minions.

Unreformed Shaco1 votes

{quoted}

I don't see what's the problem here. Morgana makes use of 3 of her abilities and you make use of 3 of yours. What do you want to hear here? That she has a stronger level 6 power-spike than a Brand without minions? Because most champions do. One might even argue it would be unwise for Brand to get into auto range with most enemies if there are no minions.

im just asking why her ult is allowed to hit harder than nearly every other ability in the game when it is both CC and AoE.

As someone posted above, it does double what Lux ult does.

Yrzen1 votes

Again, 3 second delay after a .5 second casting delay, and again, breakable by distance. Also, 625 range. If Morgana is in the center of your team, ulting them all, then simply by walking in opposite directions, Morgana would only be able to keep one person inside of it, and only if that person has no movement abilities. If they get out, the damage becomes pretty minor, and it doesn't apply cc at all.

That's enough time for Taric to cast his ult and then wait for it to land. That's enough time for majority of champions to unleash a full rotation, most of which can kill Morgana. This is why Morgana very, very frequently rushes Zhonya's hourglass, but that also makes it easier to walk away from her ult. To even get close enough for Morgana to use ult+Zhonya's effectively, she often needs to flash in, and even then, again, anyone with movement abilities or flash can get out of it. Even if all goes according to Morgana's plan, she then has 1.5 seconds to run away before she's immediately deleted by the team she has put herself in the middle of. Hell, she might not even have that long, because there are almost certainly going to be part of that team who could dash or flash away from her ult, who is now able to turn around and make her pay. If Morgana's team can't follow up immediately, Morgana is going to have a lot of trouble, since she no longer has flash to escape.

The base damage on Morgana's ult is pretty good if you get both parts, but the longer the game goes on, the harder it is to do so. This is why the scaling is so high; if it did no damage late in the game, it would become pointless putting yourself in danger to tag more enemies in its radius.

With 30 AP, (Doran's+AP Quints) triggering 3 stacks on Brand's passive does 21% max health damage, in addition to 15% max health damage to anyone standing too close to them. Later in the game, he easily outscales Morgana's damage output and doesn't have to wait three seconds to do it. It's allowed to hit hard because Q+W while great and all, is too weak alone to let her perform as a Mage in midlane.

If you want to compare it to Lux ult, fine. Lux ult has the same base damage as both parts of Morgana's ult combined, can be cast from more than 5 times farther away, can be cast more than three times faster, Both applies and detonates Lux' Illumination passive (Doing 70+20% at level 6 potentially twice) and scales way better into the late-game. It's even aoe, just much narrower. By no stretch of the imagination does Morgana's ult do "double" what Lux' ult does. They're apples and oranges to begin with.

Mig892 votes

What is the boards coming to? I seriously thought this was a M&G post before double checking. Morg has one of the most fair and balanced kits in the game while being one of the oldest champions......... I think theres a reason youre posting from a level 2 account.

koshkyra1 votes

Q: 3 second root, second longest root in the game, 300 base damage and 90% ap ratio W: insta-kill a full wave and deal massive damage to anyone under your ridiculous cc (so they cant leave) E: 75% AP ratio on a shield R: 600 base damage and 150% ap ratio. Thats literally two lux lazers.

XenociderOmega1 votes

Q- moves slow ez to dodge W- not a threat if not snare R- move away from her Fk her shield tho it's annoying Syndra ult is just point and click not avoidable

Unreformed Shaco1 votes

{quoted}

Q- moves slow ez to dodge W- not a threat if not snare R- move away from her Fk her shield tho it's annoying Syndra ult is just point and click not avoidable

I agree with Q, its very easy to dodge and the damage is apporopriate

I don't understand how you're saying "Move away from her" about her ult, when it slows you.

Even if she casts it at maximum range, you have walk a further 400 units away from her to break the tether. Cast range 625, tether range 1050. From http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Morgana

How do you not only outrun her while slowed by 20%, but outrun her enough to move 400 units away.

I woujld much rather Syndra point and click that Morgana ult: just activate it.

Its literally impossible to miss.

nm10101 votes

The wiki is incorrect about her tether range, I tested it out some months back. At most it is like 800 units.

SnakDatSmilesBak1 votes

Run in different directions

koshkyra1 votes

W- not a threat if not snare

I kinda said that already lmao

fk her shield tho its annoying

Syndra ult is just point and click not avoidable

You said how its avoidable.

Anastaecia1 votes

You guys are aware that 300 dmg is at level 16 which most games don't get to? And all her abilities have long cds. She has one of the shortest ranged aa's in the game. And like all mages, she is squishy.

I think you guys just had a bad game against a good one.

Unreformed Shaco1 votes

{quoted}

You guys are aware that 300 dmg is at level 16 which most games don't get to? And all her abilities have long cds. She has one of the shortest ranged aa's in the game. And like all mages, she is squishy.

I think you guys just had a bad game against a good one.

no, 300 damage is at level 6. 150 from each part.

Anastaecia1 votes

I was referring to the guy talking about 600 below. And that's if both parts hit. She has to keep her squishy self in there with you. If you are low enough that 300 is going to kill you, then she is doing a good job without her ult already.

Unreformed Shaco1 votes

{quoted}

You guys are aware that 300 dmg is at level 16 which most games don't get to? And all her abilities have long cds. She has one of the shortest ranged aa's in the game. And like all mages, she is squishy.

I think you guys just had a bad game against a good one.

I was mid against her, both at 100%.

She missed her Q, just walked up to me, pressed R and pooled when the stun finished for the kill.

Meanwhile as brand I blow my entire combo and get 2 bounces of ult and she laughs it off.

DarkRitual1 votes

Syndra ult is point and click. She presses R and it happens. Few ways to stop it. Morg presses R: you can stop it by moving away (flash if needed). You can also stop it by killing her (unlike Syndra ult). If you're squishy, you can kill her (or you're a support and her ult was unlikely worthwhile).

She certainly needs a rework, but her ult is fine as a low range counterplayable engage tool (which usually requires her to flash to be effective).

Horse Grenades1 votes

WTF is happening? Someone is complaining about Morgana's Ultimate?!

Leblancs Boob1 votes

Did you just refer to morg's W as "instant waveclear"......???????

RogueWill1 votes

lane morgana, her W is maxed first, so yeah it become instant-ish wave clear. it only need a few ticks to clear the wave.

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