It would seem compared to what was believed before, Zed is not a rogue terrorist in Ionia but clearly someone looking out for its better interests from Noxus and is even disgusted by the likes of Jhin.
Even if his methods of doing so are shady, nothing seems to indicate he's particularly evil anymore.
BLACK REALM GOD17 voteswhat is evil, but an opposing opinion on right and wrong deemed unpopular by the majority?
Warlord Dienekes6 votesThat's fair, but there usually are markers recognized as indicative of evil in modern societies. Murder of innocents, rape, theft from the destitute, torture, basically things that break or disregard what is considered universal human rights.
Ralanr1 votesAnd judging by the sort of things the Kinkou order were asked to do (like the golden demon incident) it stands to reason that they have a concept of morality somewhat similar. Can't be neutral if you don't have a definition of what is and what isn't neutral.
So by our standards, Zed killing Kusho was an evil act. Though we don't know if it was self defense or not since it was behind closed doors.
But things like draining magic from the land? That's probably seen as more extreme than evil by people outside of the Vastaya.
Rito Staff1 votesI don't know where people get that from
Even if there was a whole community/tribe of people who accept murder as something neutral/good. If you look at psychopaths, pedophiles and whatnots, all those we consider 'bad'. Do they look happy? Do they look 'light'? Do they have an ease in their eyes?
"Psychopaths don't look/portray bad vibes at all, they are usually charismatic and charming" - they are cold, might be hard to detect but it's there, no one that doesn't feel compassion or love is happy or at ease.
What gives someone pleasure changes from person to person, eating chocolate, exercising, killing. But an addiction is not "good" in the eyes of the doer, it's only pleasurable.
What I'm saying is, people like to say good and bad are subjective. Maybe the concepts yes, in a community where it's ok to kill then murder is good. But that doesn't deny somberness that comes off doing it.
BLACK REALM GOD3 votesfirst let me clarify that before i go into detail i am not an advocate for negative or unusual behavior. i just simply understand it.
"psychopaths, pedophiles, and whatnots, all those we consider bad"
most of the pain that people experience in their lives is inflicted by others due to a difference in opinion about right and wrong. to put it in a way that many might be able to understand - racism and homophobia.
if you were to leave a person who enjoys murdering/raping/pillaging/sleeping with children/whatever alone and just let them do what they want to do would they be happy? the answer is yes.
to say that someone who forces something onto another isnt happy in getting what they want is idiotic at best. if someone gave you a large sum of money with no strings attached for no reason would you be happy?
THE REASON why those who do things that society declares negative cannot enjoy themselves is because they have to suffer through mental agony in order to enjoy their lives in their own way. always hiding from the world because of a strange or unusual behavior.
for example cannibalism. to many humans the idea of our species being more than just another animal is actually due mostly in part to religion. in areas where religion was never developed (such as tribal islands) the humans that live there in tribes are only loyal to those they are allied to inside of their tribe - most of which is family. if you cannot speak their language and have a strange appearance you are a threat to their way of life and will be killed on sight if you provoke them. some are friendly. some are not. in the wild meat is meat and lazy overweight city dwellers and hyperactive athletes have a lot of meat.
whether you realize it or not many of our modern day morals and ethics have come from a few different places, but most are religion based or passed down from a previously successful civilization.
and in those times the victor wrote the rules. it's easier to convince an army to fight for you if you promise them safety and freedom. in order to have a larger army you have to protect your citizens from each other as well as invaders. any leader who would go against what they said after the war was won would be instantly killed off and replaced with a surviving member from the war that had nobility and was recognized as a major influence.
a single person is the weakest you can get. a family is a little bit stronger. a tribe is a bit bigger. a town. then a city. then a province. then a nation. and finally a continent. if you can convince everyone on a continent to agree to the same ideology and follow the same laws then your entire continent will be allied and anything or anyone that goes against it will suffer. humans do not like to suffer. so minor differences such as being gay for example if your allies consider that something evil or negative then guess what - you're going to suffer for something just because you have a difference of opinion.
witches were women and men who did not believe in a higher being, but instead in the practice of alchemy and an alternate plane of existence called the spirit plane. essentially alchemy was the base commoner version of chemistry. so literally for years people who wanted to advance medicine, technology, and science in general in order to understand the elements and how their universe worked were murdered for just being book nerds.
there are religions and cultures that when born into them you are forced to marry someone else. but what do you do if you end up not interested in them because you prefer a different gender? or a different species? some cultures have married their daughters to livestock to prevent curses from destroying their homes or to raise a drought.
pedophilia is something that has always existed. from the moment a girl/boy is born she/he is set eyes upon by any who would find her/him attractive or those who are sexually starved by not being "alpha" enough in their communities. in most communities it is the male who chooses the mate. royal families would lie about their children's ages and some wouldnt even keep track of their ages only concerning themselves with how beautiful or mature and well mannered they were. as soon as a girl had her first menstrual cycle she was considered an adult and married off to lords and bureaucrats sometimes in their mid 40's and 50's.
when given the choice most men and women would rather sleep/live with a partner that treats them the way they want to be treated, but remember women havent always had freedom to choose. and in those instances many many many things that we would consider unpleasant today were overlooked.
so to summarize -
negative behavior is defined by the majority because the majority usually wins wars for the king and the king makes rules in order to satisfy the majority so that the king will not be murdered after winning the war.
in most cases the majority want self preservation and freedom.
giving self-preservation and freedom at the same time is directly conflicting.
since self-preservation is the greater desired of the two any freedom that would infringe upon self-preservation of another is then deemed unacceptable.
unacceptable freedoms are punished.
those who do not agree with the limitation of freedom over the limitation of self-preservation (usually those who believe that the strong should feed upon the weak) are in turn forced to suffer for their difference of opinion.
we call these people radicalists. and for good reason.
now in turn if you have a majority that believes that the strong should feed upon the weak then you have something a bit different.
Krabohod1 votesFirst of all, you forget that morality is creation of mankind. It is purely subjective. We kinda agreed as human species on some stuff. And start teaching our kids that things. => if someone do not agree with that, it is objectively not evil but just differ from our perspective. Cause objectively there are no morality. Of course killers and pedophiles do not have 'ease in eyes' cause they are always pressured by society.
Secondly, you forget that morality changes as the history goes. Look at ancient ritualistic killings. It was noble, not bad. Priests who killed was considered purest and best at the time. Also, you forget that not only psychopaths kill. Look at old and current wars. Look at soldiers. Their murders was and is considered noble by the side where they are on.
Knihovak4 votesHe kills ninja turtles.
Chembaron Yamada2 votes
Not Ok!
ZedUsanGovos1 votes
Oh yes. Very ok.
NA Darklarik4 votesZed is never hinted at being evil or malevolent.
His conflict with Shen is reminicent of Captain America Vs Ironman in Civil war, with him being the Captain.
He dosent want to let himself be restrained by rules and old outdated traditions, when faced with threats that clearly require innovation, even if its morally questionable. Zed sees that the world is a grim and dark place, and knows you cant always take the high road in dealing with it.
He belives the ends justify the means. To that end he will use Dark magics if it means protecting Ionia and his people.
paisy3 votesI guess his outfit or role in the Xayah/Rakan video didn't imply his was evil or anything
AmazoX4 votesHe reminds me of Red hood from DC and Malthael from Diablo.
Red-hood has his own shady ways of dealing with evil, Methods that aren't approved by heroes but he has good intentions.
Malthael the archangel of wisdom, Went crazy, Wanted to kill every human on the planet, When an ex-archangel of justice wanted to stop Malthael by stabbing him in the stomach with the blade El'druin, Malthael took no damage, You know why? Because Malthael had good intentions, He believed he was doing the right thing.
El'druin cannot hurt those with good intentions.
Cardinal Sinveil1 votesYes and Malthael was right all along. The fact remains that the nephalem are demon-corrupted creatures. Them turning against demons and angels for superiority (because they are genetically superior) is an inevitability. Too bad Tyrael will figure that our way to late. I just wonder why Malthael didnt vote against humanity with Imperious when the Angiris Council debated the fate of humanity.
Should of listened to Malthael, Tyrael ....
Fasmodey1 votesDidn't he want to annihilate humanity because they have carried demon side, even though also angel side? He ignored angel side (good side) of humanity and only saw demon side. Super biased crazy batshit Archangel of Death.
Cardinal Sinveil1 votesSure "biased" is one way to look at it. But as it should be obvious to every sane person, evil always triumphs over good (especially if they are in equal amount). This is psychologically proven and known as "Negativity Bias". It is natural because the Good makes you put your guard down and does not have a significant impact on your life. Evil however, has a much greater influence. One bad day can make an individual irredeemably corrupted (as the Joker from DC Comics clearly states). While one good day might make the individual happy, but after it passes, it will easily be forgotten.
So all in all, as I said in my first comment, it is inevitable for the nephalem to turn evil. If they were 80% angel and 20% demon maybe, mayyyybe, there might be hope for them. But as it stands, if it weren't for plot armor, Malthael was in the right and should have triumphed. His only serious mistake was destroying the Soulstone and releasing the demons, which will in turn slaughter A LOT of angels (something that, I am sure, Malthael greatly regrets). And yes, he might be viewed as biased, but only from a certain perspective.
Fasmodey3 votesTaking life of the innocents for potential evilness within them is also evil. Your goal is not what defines your alignment but actions. Actions are over goals.
Saving a life is a not morally good action when person you are about to save is your child and you save him/her with killing an innocent child of other person, for ''donating'' his/her organs to your child.
Malthael may have a greater good goal with evil actions, which still makes him evil. He is evil. Like Sargeras. Actually, when I think about it, I never have thought Sargeras and Malthael are such similar characters until now.
I know evil actions overwhelms good actions but doesn't mean Malthael had right thing to do. You don't eliminate evil with killing the entire race, you do that with selecting individuals among the race.
TheBentOn31 votesMaltheals lieutenant Urzeal has a few interesting lore journals. He was sent to sanctuary to find Maltheal after he went missing and in his wandering noticed that the vast majority of humans chose evil ( or at least indifference) over good. He reasons that if the Nephalem ever unlock thier true power they will bring ruin to everything.
I can't say he's exactly wrong, just because the pc is a good guy doesn't mean there won't be a bunch more evil Nephalem popping up to try to rule creation soon.
Ralanr1 votesTrue, though I have to wonder how Nephalem can still exist in that setting. Is it just by random chance a human gives birth to someone with the potential or unlock their nephalem birthright or do all humans have the potential? It's been a long time since I played so I can't remember.
What I can remember is that humans are incredibly influenced by the angels.
SPOILERS: This was made clear when the angel of hope was kidnapped and every mortal except the PC fell into a state of despair, only for their hopes to be rekindled when the angel was freed. Frankly it left a sour taste in my mouth because by that point I was thinking, "What are you angels and demons good for? Angels can't stop demons in the mortal realm because of rules, and demons don't really care about the rules. They just made it worse for humanity. And as it turns out, they are deeply connected with humanity, so much that I fear wiping out both sides would destroy humanity.
abdollah562731 votesTrue, though I have to wonder how Nephalem can still exist in that setting. Is it just by random chance a human gives birth to someone with the potential or unlock their nephalem birthright or do all humans have the potential? It's been a long time since I played so I can't remember.
What I can remember is that humans are incredibly influenced by the angels.
SPOILERS: This was made clear when the angel of hope was kidnapped and every mortal except the PC fell into a state of despair, only for their hopes to be rekindled when the angel was freed. Frankly it left a sour taste in my mouth because by that point I was thinking, "What are you angels and demons good for? Angels can't stop demons in the mortal realm because of rules, and demons don't really care about the rules. They just made it worse for humanity. And as it turns out, they are deeply connected with humanity, so much that I fear wiping out both sides would destroy humanity.
I've only played Diablo 1 and 3. So correct me if I'm wrong. But to make it short, a male angel and a female demon got tired of the eternal conflict. So they ran away together and had half angel half demon children giving birth to the nephalem, which are humanity's ancestors. They also created Sanctuary, the world that humans inhabit, which was maintained by the Worldstone. After some events, the angel father decided to somehow change the worldstone to make the nephalem weaker with each generation.
Which led to the nephalem becoming frail and weak humans, IE, the majority of civilians in present day Diablo. Getting back to your question, apparently in Diablo 2 the aforementioned Worldstone got shattered. So this "lid" or "seal" that weakened the humans got removed. By the time we get to Diablo 3, which takes place 20 or 30 years after 2, nephalems has started to reemerge in small numbers.
Anyone who is more knowledgeable can correct me. But I think that's the gist of it
Valaran Nara1 votesHe reminds me of Red hood from DC and Malthael from Diablo.
Red-hood has his own shady ways of dealing with evil, Methods that aren't approved by heroes but he has good intentions.
Malthael the archangel of wisdom, Went crazy, Wanted to kill every human on the planet, When an ex-archangel of justice wanted to stop Malthael by stabbing him in the stomach with the blade El'druin, Malthael took no damage, You know why? Because Malthael had good intentions, He believed he was doing the right thing.
El'druin cannot hurt those with good intentions.
Let's not forget Red Hood is both a mercenary AND a Crime Boss.
He stops crime by controlling it. Crime's going to exist no matter what, so you best as well be the king of it and direct how it operates. You want your drugs? Fine, but don't sell it to kids. You want your guns? Fine, but if you shoot some random pedestrian for no reason, you're going to find that same bullet lodged in the back of your skull come morning.
ZedUsanGovos1 votesMr. Jason Peter Todd eh? I do see the similarities. No wonder I had a liking towards Zeddie b0i.
Both were orphans taken in by a master who taught them everything. They both shared a disdain for their masters' mercy towards an insane fuckin murderer. They both extended their reach a little further than their masters would like and ended up punished in some way. Zed was banished and Jason was stretched. They returned later even stronger than before, and in Arkham Knight, Jason also returned with a fucking army knocking at the door.
Goddamn I love these two fuckin ninja b0is.
Lady Faceless3 votesI don't think Zed supposed to be a villain per se, but more the anti-these of the current Ionia. Riot did an amazing job to make him a grey character, he is clearly not a a good person (stealing Vastayian magic, using shadow technique, which is using the soul of the fallen to empower themself), but in the same time you don't really think he is a villain, but more an extremist. His interaction with Shen in the Jhin Color text clearly shows Zed really believes he is doing the right thing. However, his goals aren't the most noble ones and his methodes are even less. And if his road to fullfill his goals are pawned with blood and terror, then Zed still won't hesitate or turn around.
GreenLore3 votesIn general I think he isn't supposed to be simply evil nowadays.
He is trying to keep the balance and order of the world just like the kinkous,its just that his methods are more extreme.
Ebonmaw Dragon3 votesIn general I think he isn't supposed to be simply evil nowadays.
He is trying to keep the balance and order of the world just like the kinkous,its just that his methods are more extreme.
I dont agree with the second part...
https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/e/eb/Zed.move5.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20121119061402 https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/ca/Zed.move8.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20121119061402
I think that he wants the scales to be in his favor (and Ionia)
GreenLore1 votesI can only see the last image.
Ebonmaw Dragon1 votesI can only see the last image.
The others arent images, are quotes of Zed: "Balance is Weakness" "Balance is a fools master"
Considering those quotes, its clear that he doesnt want to keep the balance
GreenLore1 votesWell Dianas current VO doesn't fit her character in the lore anymore as well(ingame she talks about how much she hates the solari,in the lore she tries to resolve the conflict peacefully),so the same could go for Zed
Ebonmaw Dragon1 votesWell Dianas current VO doesn't fit her character in the lore anymore as well(ingame she talks about how much she hates the solari,in the lore she tries to resolve the conflict peacefully),so the same could go for Zed
true enough
AFilthyCaitMain1 votesIdk but hes messing with the magic of the vastayah so
TheBentOn31 votesConsidering the main two Ionian Vastayah is a genocidal xenophobe, and her brainwashed lover, can't say stealing their magic is really screaming "evil" to me.
Ralanr1 votesJust because we have two bad apples doesn't mean the entire tree is rotten.
Fasmodey2 votesAnd they're ''genocidal xenophobes'' because of Zed and his Order of Shadows.
They're not even that against actually, as they try their best to don't take life, even though they don't like humans.
Ralanr3 votesI think only Xayah doesn't like humans. Rakan just likes Xayah enough to fight for her.
Wrathof3001 votesXayah doesn't like a lot of things yordles for example, not just humans, lol.
Schenix1 votesHe's the League equivalent of Ra's al Ghul. So a bit of both.
Zelorxon1 votesTHEY'RE WAKING UP, I REPEAT, THEY'RE WAKING UP.
TheHappyReaperz1 votesHe still killed his master, then had his ninja people murder the majority of ninja temple. That's pretty evil. Plus there was the whole, draining nature magic stuff for shadow stuff reasons, thing he did.
Chromatic Eagle1 votesI mean, it's ok to not see him evil, the way some people don't see Jhin as evil, but generally killing your master, stealing a forbidden form of magic, capturing an entire group of people, and conducting rituals for said forbidden magic is at the very least illegal.
SlyTactician 1 votesZed's definitely been shaping up to be quite the interesting character since Jhin's lore was released.
Though my main gripe is that despite all this...we know very little about the Kinkou Order in general as well. Both Kennen and Akali are both in an odd lore limbo and really have little development outside of being Shen's "two sidekicks". I was disappointed to see that the two were not even referenced in Kayn's reveal or champion interactions. Akali was mentioned a bit in Jhin's story; however, there was no mention of Kennen at all (other than a Rioter mentioning that Kennen was probably the oldest ninja in terms of age of the group).
From what I recall from what Rioters mentioned during Zed's reveal was that Akali had no mercy for Zed and was ready to kill him (indicating a possible past with Zed) while Kennen is ready to redeem Zed as he sees some good in him while Shen is neutral on the overall subject. This makes sense as Akali is the ninja said to be tasked with assassinating those who threaten balance while Kennen's kindness is meant to help those who want justice in the world. Shen watches over both sides to make a perfect balance as per the Kinkou Order's actions.
After all these years of having these characters in the game, I do hope we learn more about Ken and Akali as well as the conflicts between the Kinkou and the Order of the Shadow. Kayn has been revealed as Zed's fellow member and potential new leader while the two sidekicks to Shen have had little development at all in recent years. Akali is said to be young and brash in Jhin's story while Kennen's original lore indicates that he's a prankster...I really hope we just get more info about these guys too so we can learn about the overall situation about the two ninja clans.
Wrathof3001 votesWouldn't randomly sticking them in other peoples lore just for the sake of presence, make them even more sidekick-like than ever. Akalie is shaping up to be the apprentice ninja on the Kinkou's side (where we have Kayn's filling the apprentice role for the Order of the Shadows) however there is a theory that Akali used be a part of the Order of the Shadows and she switched sides, (I honestly don't know where that one came from) which explains why she as very little presence until recent in the lore, because her story is basically only now becoming of importance. I remember a rioter commenting that Kennen's status is that of an acquaintance/ affiliate to the Kinkou opposed to a dedicated follower present at all an every incident involving the Kinkou, so maybe more like a sage (like Jiraiya from naruto if you can make that connection), this would make a lot of sense with where yordle lore is headed as well.
Krabohod2 votesThat would be pretty cool if Kennen's lore will go this way.
GenoXx1 votesHe's the Akuma of LoL.
XIII Vanitas1 votesnothing seems to indicate he's particularly evil anymore.
Are you delusional? Zed has murdered his own adoptive father and the majority of the Kinkou order just because they wanted to prevent him from learning shadow magic, which is a practice that allows the user to steal life energy from their victims. On top of that, Zed's order is kidnapping, torturing and killing vastaya on a daily basis in order to freely harness natural energy, which is ESSENTIAL to their survival.
ZedUsanGovos1 votesIgnorance.
Is fatal.
We don't know what went down inside the temple to anger Zed, but whatever it was, had to have been bad enough to make him go berserk. Remember now, Zed just wanted his damned b0x, which is why he returned to the dojo in the first place. He didn't return to solely slaughter folks left and right. His intentions were pure.
: "ay fam wuz gud? I got my ninja niBBas here. We're just here to retrieve the sp00py b0x pls n thx"
(as a placeholder for Master Kusho): "Yo my b0i, sorry bout casting y'out. I dun diddly gon n dun a bad move on my part. But y'gotta come wit me. We gots to destroy the b0x"
The two enter the temple, Zed suddenly cried out in pain, yet emerges unscathed with Kusho's head. He then orders his Order to slaughter the students.
As for the magic harvesting, we don't know the history behind Zed's Order and the Vastayan nations. Therefore, and I might be biased, until we get more info on what went down to cause such hostility between the two, I'll give Zed the benefit of the doubt and say that, similar to the Temple Incident, something had to have gone down to make Zed do that stuff.
XIII Vanitas1 votesYeah, sure. You always bring your armed followers with you when you want to "peacefully retrieve" things from people that don't want to give them to you.
Please, stop trying to find justifications for a mass murderer drunk with power.
ZedUsanGovos1 votesYeah. What if Kusho decided to fight over the box? Zed wouldn't risk going to retrieve the box alone, or even with a few followers and risk being attacked by the entirety of the KINKOU CLAN. Clearly, if he was Kusho's best student, cast out, he can't expect to be welcomed the way he was.
Krabohod1 votesI think Zed is fully gray character, people just love to dichotomize to good and bad.
