Do people actually like csing?

Lapis·Jun 22, 2018·9 votes·8,264 views

I personally don't, which is why I'm a support main. I prefer interacting with the players rather than minions. But I really do want to know if other people find it fun

53 Comments

KhristophorosJun 22, 201817 votes

CSing itself is not fun, interesting, or interactive.

However, it creates interaction in lane by creating opportunities for players to punish each other. Without the need to CS for your gold you wouldn't need to interact with your lane opponent.

TheWizardMJun 22, 20182 votes

one word; lane experience. If you got a set amount of gold from minions dying nearby instead you would still be rewarded for pushing someone out without the minigame that is csing (just look at HotS). If anything the idea of cs makes lanes less interactive imo.

Hypochondria9Jun 22, 20185 votes

Laning is boring as hell in HotS, you just try not to die and stay in XP range. Some heroes are insanely strong laners and you can't even go near them. No one would complain about Yasuo if they had to lane against a Cho'Gall or Zagara.

TheWizardMJun 22, 20181 votes

I'm not saying HotS is perfectly balanced around the laning phase. I'm just saying that, at least when both sides pick geroes that are at a similar lane strength, it is alot more interactive that LoL. In LoL you jsut stand around and cs untill one side either gets ganked or happens to get hit by some spell from the enemy support. In HotS you are actively playing against eachother during the lane (again, unless one side has a much stronger laner).

TempName54846Jun 23, 20181 votes

you must not be very good at hots if this is the impression you have of the laning.

TheWizardMJun 27, 20181 votes

What does that have to do with anything? And like I said, not all matchups in HotS have a laning phase at all, but those that to are quite fun.

KhristophorosJun 22, 20184 votes

lol nobody would complain about Yasuo if you could just stand in xp range for the whole laning phase anyways. Like who even cares if all you have to do is stand there and maybe shove it back if he tries to shove it into your turret?

Attticus FinchJun 23, 20181 votes

If you just sit under towers and farm (in itself not a good protection as HotS towers are significantly weaker then LoL towers are and thus it's easy to poke or dive) you're giving up map control as he's just going to roam. Objectives actually matter in HotS unlike in League so have fun wave clearing while your laning opponent is off collecting nukes or killing the immortal.

At least actually play the games you try to criticize.

Hypochondria9Jun 23, 20181 votes

Unless they massively nerfed towers and keeps in HotS since the last time I played I highly doubt you can dive easier than in LoL. Last time I played the best strategy was to always have one person in lane to soak XP until level 10. You played ultra safe because roaming heroes can easily kill you if you over extend. Most of the objectives early game aren't that strong or can be safely delayed by cancelling channels from a safe range. Once you hit 10, you can teamfight and the game is fun but getting there is pretty stale.

KhristophorosJun 22, 20181 votes

There is way less depth to the interaction without CSing. Whenever you last hit that opens up a punishment opportunity.

there are countless videos on this but here's a good one https://youtu.be/iko2tqmDpJQ

This is why HotS will always be painfully shallow in comparison to League and DotA.

edit: accidentally had somebody's reupload video url. fixed it to the url for the original video.

HommeGoujonJun 22, 20188 votes

I'm pretty sure that's two words. [sg-poppy]

GayFluffyUnicornJun 22, 20181 votes

And that's why Hots is boring as hell and doesn't have any laning phase whatsoever.

TheWizardMJun 27, 20181 votes

That has to do with how early objectives spawn and how easy they are to take in comparison to league, not with the exp soak mechanic.

SleepcomaJun 23, 20181 votes

if people want to go play hots they can go do that... this change would just take a lot of skill out of the game, which would make it a very bad change

TheWizardMJun 27, 20181 votes

I wish my pc could properly handly HotS x)

My dad's pc can though but I can only use that one in weekends.

SasogwaJun 22, 201810 votes

I Nasus love Nasus stacking Nasus

TheWizardMJun 22, 20181 votes

the current gold reqrd for last hitting doesn't change anything about Nasus q.

SasogwaJun 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

the current gold reqrd for last hitting doesn't change anything about Nasus q.

Well it feels fun for me to grow stronger with every minion killed, with or without Q (though obviously Q is more satisfying). But it also feels really good to handle perfectly a hard lasthitting situation under tower or sthg and get every one of them, it feels like you solved well a puzzle. Idk, perfect lasthit can be brain teasing sometimes; not sure why people find it so tiresome.

Critmaster GarenJun 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I love stacking

LeeSin "help me man, the enemy keeps invading and killing me!"

Nasus "stacks are more important than your life."

Warlord RhinarkJun 22, 20189 votes

I find farming a relaxing experience.

Well.

When I'm not against a poke champ, that is.

RalanrJun 22, 20185 votes

Generally no, which is one of the reasons I play HoTS sometimes.

DW DianaJun 22, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I personally don't, which is why I'm a support main. I prefer interacting with the players rather than minions. But I really do want to know if other people find it fun

CS'ing is a really important part of the game. It allows champions that need scale for late game to be viable (not currently of course) against champions that use early game burst to snowball.

Some champions actually rely on it entirely for their poke (e.g. Malzahar) because approaching close enough to do so will result in instant death against most champions.

CS'ing is a really good part of the game that is both tactical and reliable when used by a skilled player correctly.

big boi edriJun 22, 20183 votes

There was actually a blog about this a while back for something a bit unrelated. Sean Day9 went over what makes a game fun and engaging, and a big difference between RTS and MOBA was the level of interaction from the second you hit the map.

If you take Starcraft 2 for instance, to generate income, you simply build workers and start harvesting minerals. The first several minutes of a game (aside from scouting, or some kind of cheese) is simply placing structures and mining more income. According to their research, this is a turn off for many gamers in this day and age. People like to be engaged, doing something, from the minute the game starts. Enter League.

While the practice of CS'ing may seem monotonous and dull to some, what it really does is create an interaction that keeps the player engaged from the start. You aren't just building a drone and automatically sending him to bring you income, you're actively working to land that last hit and gain a bit more gold every minion. Combine this with having another play in the lane with you, and you've created a style of game that is never dull due to the mechanics of CS'ing, wave manipulation, and the opposing champion. You are always doing something, you are always interacting.

So overall, in a game like League based off of gold income, I'm of the belief that CS'ing adds a certain value and level of interaction that keeps you engaged in the game from the moment (or shortly after actually) you hit the rift. It is repetitive, it can be hard, or it can just be dull; but overall it seems to be in my mind, a necessity of entertainment value.

LaundroMattJun 22, 20181 votes

Was that a blog or a video from Day9? If you know specifically where it is, I'd love to see it.

Automated RivenJun 22, 20181 votes

wait... in what world is starcraft uninteractive for several minutes. anywhere outside of bronze your dealing with harrass withing the first 2 - 3 minutes. And there is a shit ton of stuff to do past 30 seconds for all the races.

(I guess years ago when you started the game with 6 drones instead of 12 this may have been a problem. But it definately isnt one now)

Lotus BloomJun 22, 20182 votes

The act of farming for your gold isn't necessarily thought to be an interesting experience, per say. It's mean to be as @Khistophoros said, "a means to encourage interaction" much like farming for minerals and gases in Starcraft. Messing with your opponents supply is just interaction. I've known friends that weren't into the whole farming experience. They just wanted to play the map macro and fight others so they opted to pick up HotS or another type of game entirely, and that's fine, It's not for everyone.

KhristophorosJun 22, 20182 votes

They could play support or jungle tho [sg-janna]

Lotus BloomJun 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

They could play support or jungle tho [sg-janna]

We tried getting her on support, but I'm guessing that she didn't care for learning abotu the items, and such. Trust me, I was disappointed also. [sg-soraka]

TheWizardMJun 22, 20181 votes

it discourages interaction though, as attacking your lane opponent means you lose cs. If you were to get a set amount of gold when a nearby minion dies instead, it would promote interaction as well as make the adc role more viable for low-end pc's, which can have trouble with hitting on-click effects due to fps and latency issues.

DisulfiramJun 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

it discourages interaction though, as attacking your lane opponent means you lose cs.

You're doing it wrong... the ideal time for harassing your opponent is when A) you are waiting for the next minion to get low enough and B) your opponent is currently trying to last hit a minion.

This is the ideal moment because you can harass without losing cs and without retaliation (if the enemy retaliates, then the trade was even but he lost that cs; if he doesn't retaliate, then he didn't fall back on cs but got harassed for free; there's also a third possibility, where he doesn't retaliate and still misses that cs, but that's just him messing up).

heroikcJun 22, 20182 votes

It's a necessity of varying value. Fun? That depends.

Frozen DivaJun 22, 20182 votes

I like it. It's relaxing.

DragfinJun 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I personally don't, which is why I'm a support main. I prefer interacting with the players rather than minions. But I really do want to know if other people find it fun

It's the genre. If a MOBA is not your cup of tea for this stupid reason then there are millions of mind numbingly boring ass FPS game out there that allows for immediate interaction with other players.

League takes mental capacity to play. It takes mental capacity to understand which is why it is rarely shown on television. Most people who watch it will not understand WTF is going on.

Go play those and stop talking about one of the most vital parts of a MOBA when there are literally hundreds of other games that don't have this kind of gameplay and are much easier to negotiate.

DerMangoJoghurtJun 22, 20182 votes

Calm down. There's no need to become so aggressive just because he doesn't like cs'ing.

DragfinJun 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Calm down. There's no need to become so aggressive just because he doesn't like cs'ing.

RIOT loves players like the both of you.

KuboxJun 22, 20181 votes

I wouldn't call it fun but it's definitely at least something you can do.

As a support main, sometimes I'll have these really bad games where I can do nothing but sit back and watch my adc farm. Even worst if we lost tower pre-6 and I'm just sitting in the small bush getting coins and just waiting to at least get my ult before roaming. Or you get these games where you play a tank support but your teammates prefer split pushing so you just walk around doing literally nothing since you have no poke to give or fight to create.

Interacting with players may be a more interesting that csing, but csing sure are hell beats doing nothing.

DubledoxJun 22, 20181 votes

Jungle main here, I’m in the same boat!

Pika FoxJun 22, 20181 votes

I wouldnt really say its fun so much as at this point its necessary for this game to really work and function. You cant just have an all out brawlfest with the way the game is setup.

Maybe it would work well for a new map/game mode. There have been some before where CSing wasnt even a thing.

EkyonKunJun 22, 20181 votes

I only like it to hear the rattling of coins entering my pockets. That noise satisfies me

FurtherScapeJun 22, 20181 votes

If your going for Creep Score < your not really interacting with minions … you are just playing to get last hit on minions and saving your attacks incase the other side dives in front of there minions.

Guess Pro Tip, let your minions do all or most the work and try to fake the other team out by attacking in random patterns . If anyone should be interacting with the minions, it should be the support, to help wedel down minions with higher health …

Just saying, a support standing around is about as useful as a Mid-Laner not jumping lanes to help push lanes.

amirreza2142Jun 22, 20181 votes

because u press TAB and u enjoy having more Level and Cs than enemy, and that lead to dopamin , dopamin gives u FUN

ForgottenLuckJun 22, 20181 votes

I do enjoying CSing

Automated RivenJun 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I personally don't, which is why I'm a support main. I prefer interacting with the players rather than minions. But I really do want to know if other people find it fun

csing is interacting with players. You have to chose when you can cs without getting poked. Pressure him off of cs, harass while they are csing. All without sacrificing your own. Without cs the game would be boring as hell.

GaliöJun 23, 20181 votes

It's like having kills but hundreds of them

Modl Ryden lJun 23, 20181 votes

I like it in the way that you would like keeping your combo score up in DDR.

I always make it a minigame for myself to not miss a creep for as long as possible, therefore increasing mt cs/min, which is a very important stat.

I also want to say that csing is a core gameplay mechanic since this game is somewhat a derivative of DotA where last hitting and denying is a very important micro skill to learn.

I know a lot of players would say that they would like the game even more if Riot removed csing from the game. But mind you, it's a very defining characteristic of the game. I honestly think it adds a little more depth to laning that it does in HotS. It's a game between managing you and your opponents resources.

EunsonJun 23, 20181 votes

You still need to help your ADC cs as a support...

VvVVvVJun 27, 20181 votes

Low elo doesnt know that........another reason why i dont Q up for support......tired of people that are unsupportable. Hit a minion in low elo as a support and you get spam pinged and some child asking people in all chat to report you for trolling lol.

PæanJun 23, 20181 votes

There is a reason I main jungle. Feral Flare and other farm heavy times were so boring though. CS is an important part of laning, but walking back and forth just to last hit while trying to avoid getting pounced on just feels so meh as an immobile adc.

Elkington VIJun 23, 20181 votes

Nope, one of the many reasons I miss the non-laning modes like Dominion/Ascension.

I typically just jungle or support on SR/3v3.

VvVVvVJun 27, 20181 votes

If you dont like CSing...go play Batlerite. It's League without minions, just a team fight from the start.