Bop'N'Block (Passive) [Removed] No longer restores mana Shield changed from [80-300] to [50/55/60/72/84/96/111/126/141/156/174/192/210/228/246/264/282/300]
Nerfing the shield and mana back? Why would you nerf the one thing that incentivises Yuumi to get off her adc? Hey they buffed her heal though so you're just gonna see Yuumi's attached and spam healing now. Is that the direction they want to go?
OtterlyLost51 votesThis is frustrating, honestly. The champion is already fairly uninteractive in lane; why make this worse by nerfing the one reason she has to get off allies and get into danger? Why not buff that and nerf some of the things that encourage her to only stay attached? .-. AKA, nerf the heal by giving it a bigger mana cost but give her a shorter CD and more mana on her mana AA. Could similarly do the same with her Q; give it a higher mana cost when she's attached but a smaller one when she's separated.
Onerios2 votesThe change feels like it's trying to be a power flattening one, as higher skilled players are more likely to detach at appropriate times to get resources back while poorer players either detach at the wrong time and get killed/heavily damaged or don't detach at all and can't use the power it brings. The style of change is probably needed given how her winrate curve seems to be, so is there anywhere else on her kit that a similar change could be done?
OtterlyLost2 votesThe change feels like it's trying to be a power flattening one, as higher skilled players are more likely to detach at appropriate times to get resources back while poorer players either detach at the wrong time and get killed/heavily damaged or don't detach at all and can't use the power it brings. The style of change is probably needed given how her winrate curve seems to be, so is there anywhere else on her kit that a similar change could be done?
I feel like having the curve as it isn't the end of the world, to be honest. She's a high skill cap champion; people who hop off at good times should be rewarded while people who are only using part of her kit and never unattaching should be punished and should not be allowed to win for playing their champion incorrectly. There are plenty of champions with similar curves.
Eleshakai3 votesShe has pretty close to 100% presence in pro. Which means she needs to be nerfed. But she's also not OP in lower tiers, which means the delta is too high.
If she's at near 100% presence in pro while being borderline too weak at lower tiers of skill, then she needs to have the gap between pro and normal lowered so that she can eventually hit a balanced state.
w8upp1 votes^
Partholonian1 votesSounds like you're describing Azir syndrome, which may be a reasonable description of her current balance state, but that still doesn't make promoting a never-detach playstyle the right way to nerf her. Her passive is important to giving her healthy gameplay.
The bigger issue for her balance vs. elo curve IMO is that in pro she rarely/never gets screwed over by her ride going in an unexpected direction, depriving her Q of range, or jumping into 4 people believing a cat is as good as a Kayle ult. All of which are regular occurrences in soloq. Likewise allies moving out of her W range when she needs a way out (Lee Sin/Braum/Rakan can have that problem too, but they can survive it much more often).
But those things are intrinsic to her champion concept, I think the only way they can be fixed is for regular players to actually learn what to do (and not to do) when you have a kitty. Which could take a long time.
DartExplosion1016 votesthats the balance team for ya
mack91127 votesThey also nerfed the projectile but let’s just not mention that right boards ?
IainG103 votesThat has no real impact on whether Yuumi stays attached or floats around loose. Whether it is warranted or not is not the discussion here.
mack91121 votesThat has no real impact on whether Yuumi stays attached or floats around loose. Whether it is warranted or not is not the discussion here.
The champions is designed around beIng attached to someone that is her design Philosophy.
She literally dies to 3 autos.
Ayzev2 votesIf she was meant to never get off, she wouldn't have this passive.
SpaghettiVase2 votesshe has to have this passive or else she wouldn't. Wasn't that why enchanters haven't been made in literally years? People complained how "Un-interactive" enchanter lanes were
Ayzev1 votesYes. mack said she's designed to just sit on someone, and my response was that she isn't supposed to do only that. You and me are on the same side here.
mack91121 votesIf she was meant to never get off, she wouldn't have this passive.
With the mana portion of her passive her kit requires absolutely zero mana management and rather a spam your q relentlessly which they also nerfed.
Healthy changes all around.
Ayzev1 votesBeing able to constantly spam practically undodgeable poke may not be healthy, but simply sitting on top of someone without ever doing anything except occasionally heal them is also not exactly ideal. One problem possibly fixed, but another worsened.
mack91121 votesBeing able to constantly spam practically undodgeable poke may not be healthy, but simply sitting on top of someone without ever doing anything except occasionally heal them is also not exactly ideal. One problem possibly fixed, but another worsened.
For the champion to be played effectively you cannot remain attached to your laner if you do you are bad
Ayzev1 votesOf course they didn't throw her straight to the extreme of AFK'ing, but they did push her in the direction of less interaction.
Partholonian1 votesThat's true now, but it will be a lot less true if her passive is nerfed, hence this thread.
Partholonian1 votesYou can regain mana anytime (well, on a CD) for the low, low price of risking instant death! It's so easy!
I agree that she's going to be casting a lot less Qs now, but she's also going to be taking a lot less risk trying to enable her to cast more Qs. Unless you just want to see her become unplayable in all elos, I don't think this is healthy.
General Esdeath 2 votesThey also nerfed the projectile but let’s just not mention that right boards ?
That doesn't really matter on this topic. It's not about how strong/weak it is, it's about Yuumi no longer having a reason to leave her ADC until around lv 13.
mack91121 votes[{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEsnGp0Z,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-07-10T08:13:53.730+0000)
That doesn't really matter on this topic. It's not about how strong/weak it is, it's about Yuumi no longer having a reason to leave her ADC until around lv 13.
If you don’t leave the adc before Lvl 13 as Yuumi you have doomed your lane.
General Esdeath 1 votesIf you don’t leave the adc before Lvl 13 as Yuumi you have doomed your lane.
How? No reason to leave now. You don't get mana back and the shield is worth less than an auto attack. Might as well stay on and spam heal and Q without risking yourself.
mack91121 votes[{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEsnGp0Z,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T18:51:01.832+0000)
How? No reason to leave now. You don't get mana back and the shield is worth less than an auto attack. Might as well stay on and spam heal and Q without risking yourself.
So just never ward ? And the mana gain removal makes spamming q more difficult
General Esdeath 1 votesSo just never ward ? And the mana gain removal makes spamming q more difficult
Tell your adc to walk up, and you place the ward. EZ
1 less Q per minute =/= you can't spam it
mack91121 votes[{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEsnGp0Z,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T21:54:31.986+0000)
Tell your adc to walk up, and you place the ward. EZ
1 less Q per minute =/= you can't spam it
That is a terrible stradegy
General Esdeath 1 votesThat is a terrible stradegy
How? Your adc and you working together is terrible? Shouldn't you be working together and communicating? Usually makes bot lane better imo when it happens.
mack91121 votes[{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEsnGp0Z,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T00:05:30.352+0000)
How? Your adc and you working together is terrible? Shouldn't you be working together and communicating? Usually makes bot lane better imo when it happens.
If you both walk over to ward you give up lane pressure and cs opportunity and your lane opponents could pressure with a jungler on the opposite side of you.
Since the Yuumi never detached to deep ward you will never know.
General Esdeath 1 votesIf you both walk over to ward you give up lane pressure and cs opportunity and your lane opponents could pressure with a jungler on the opposite side of you.
Since the Yuumi never detached to deep ward you will never know.
Where are you warding? Unless you're going to the enemy buff, you won't really lose lane pressure unless you're Cait setting up traps.
mack91121 votes[{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEsnGp0Z,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T00:42:55.086+0000)
Where are you warding? Unless you're going to the enemy buff, you won't really lose lane pressure unless you're Cait setting up traps.
So you just never deep ward ? Or even ward the tri ?
General Esdeath 1 votesSo you just never deep ward ? Or even ward the tri ?
Not that early, I just wait until I have a pink for the tri if I'm blue side. Deep wards as Yuumi are already risky because if you get caught you're fucked. Better to stay on someone and have them walk there, or stand nearby for your W escape.
Trist mid opop1 votesThey also nerfed the projectile but let’s just not mention that right boards ?
U mean the buffed ap ratio so i can go full ap yuumi and 1tap enemies. Thats not a nerf, pal
mack91121 votes[{quoted}](name=Trist mid opop,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEsnGp0Z,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-07-10T22:22:44.940+0000)
U mean the buffed ap ratio so i can go full ap yuumi and 1tap enemies. Thats not a nerf, pal
An extra 5 % ? The point is to nerf in lane poke which the nerf does
Trist mid opop1 votesAn extra 5 % ? The point is to nerf in lane poke which the nerf does
With a rabadonrush, its a buff by 4ish items. Or a wellstacked mejai and frostfang
l MrD l7 votesthis is actually a good change ... the constant mana restoration in conjunction with teh shield and E made her sustain too strong and the mana to constantly poke with Q meant shes just too strong vs enchanter supports.. with the removal of mana restoration it means the spamming of Q wont happen so often anymore and sustain is limited...
It looks like the aim could be to move away from Q max first in favour of E max weakening yuumis poke but i could be wrong and Q max still good but it just means they cant forever spam it ... Lets not forget the champ is still weak against all ins and that yuumi still needs to leave to make effective use of the shield which is still really powerful to not get
Divewing3 votesof course the boards would downvote this....
Karn Bishop1 votesYou would be wrong, the rioter behind the changes stated they don't want or need people maxing E early and still expect only Q maxing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/yuumimains/comments/cb7aqn/rip_mana_return/etea0e5/
Sebastit7d2 votes[{quoted}](name=l MrD l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEsnGp0Z,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-10T00:15:28.055+0000)
this is actually a good change ... the constant mana restoration in conjunction with teh shield and E made her sustain too strong and the mana to constantly poke with Q meant shes just too strong vs enchanter supports.. with the removal of mana restoration it means the spamming of Q wont happen so often anymore and sustain is limited...
You make it sound like enchanters being weak to something is a bad thing...
Zeppelins circus2 votesThis champion has a horrible design. We knew this was coming since her release. She is now achieved her final form. Heal bot Soraka 3.0
GigglesO1 votesBecause her getting off is just a trap/bait into trying to hit her for when she just gets back on for free.
This way people won't target her and miss all their shit because she won't detach.
kaijukitten1 votesShe needs some hella nerfs to her q, either scale down the dmg, nerf the range, or shorten or remove the slow. She's one of the safest supports with massive poke, it should be one or the other.
Not sure the nerfs mentioned are actually gonna address what makes her so unfun to lane against but it's a step in the right direction.
Lapis2 votesShe needs some hella nerfs to her q, either scale down the dmg, nerf the range, or shorten or remove the slow. She's one of the safest supports with massive poke, it should be one or the other.
Not sure the nerfs mentioned are actually gonna address what makes her so unfun to lane against but it's a step in the right direction.
I agree she needs some nerfs to her Q. Which is why I'm baffled that they're nerfing her passive
Kirika1 votesI agree she needs some nerfs to her Q. Which is why I'm baffled that they're nerfing her passive
well her Q is the only thing she is good for in lane. If its on CD its on CD. Other champs have a hell of stronger poke. Lulu, Brand, Zyra (especially a good zyra can spawn a plant to stop the Q just a hint), Lux. And Yuumi and her carry are pretty bad against a real all in.
SEKAI1 votesWhen League has so many afk players that Riot actually made a champ for them.
What's next, a champion that is entirely on autopilot so even the d/c can "play"?
Hwke941 votesWhy? It wasn't even a particularly broken champ? if you wanna take something away from Yuumi take the bonus ad/ap away and replace it with on hit damage..
Eleshakai1 votesThe intent with this is obviously to reduce the delta between top tier Yuumi and low skill Yuumi, since she is MORE overpowered at high skill than low skill.
This is why they didn't just nerf her abilities... any of those changes would equally affect all Yuumis.. when what they wanted was to make it so top tier Yuumi were a little less insanely strong.
The Kombinator1 votesRemoving mana was the right choice, because her sustain was huge already.
But in return i would increase her shield so she gets more reason to get off from the target for at least that one moment.
Boltonator1 votesSoooo literally no reason to even play Yuumi anymore?
No mana from B&B + shield values nerfed early = another useless enchanter Support.
GJ Riot! Glad to see you hold Supports in such high regard.
Dukues1 votesThey need to delete Yummi or nerf her into the fucking ground. The champ literally kills the idea of League and laning. I don't care if she "is fun" to play she is so fucking annoying to play against. Seriously WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU IDIOTS OVER AT DUMBASS GAMES BUFF EVERY ASPECT OF A FUCKING CHAMP 1 DAY AFTER SHE OUT? She was literally fucking fine how she was upon release. NOw she beyond broken as fuck.
And like this post said the dumbest part about her is her being attached to an ally. If you want this cancerous abomination to exist you should be forcing her off of champs more not onto them more.
Seriously your champ design team needs to be fired. Never make another champ again if this is the direction you going.