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Just an average customer ... the kind Riot apparently doesn't want.

Kraythax··2 votes·1,171 views

I left league but I really wanted to play Ornn so I reinstalled and came back for him. I had some fun over the last few days and worked on my Ornn skills and got promoted to Bronze 4. A minor victory, yes, but it made me happy. I thought, well I am doing better! But .... After 2 games against obvious ELO Boosting players (one even admitted he was Diamond 2), one lousy game from horrific internet connection and a couple games where the bot lane fed the other team and, of course, blamed it on Jungle, I'm back at Bronze 5. The game cant be played like a ladder because it doesn't matter what you do if your team blows up the game in the first 5 min and no amount of tank will stop the supercharged enemies.

You see the game is a team game, if one member of the team doesn't hold up their part, it goes to hell. That's fine when you are with a pre-made team or in LCS but matching with random players it just means you will be forever in frustration.

You cant get better at this game. You cant climb the ladder, nothing you do helps. Just .... well .... I've got no desire to play anymore. The fact that Riot doesn't care about average run of the mill players dispirits me even more. The fact that at least 50% of players are Gold or Diamond level in their Toxicity makes me even less desirous to play.

I am sure I will be flamed below. There will be a legion of people fountain every league trope out there at me. I dont care. I'm not gold, never claimed to be. I know I do things wrong. I know I have bad games. I just know there is no future, no ladder to climb. And that means no enjoyment.

I'm done.

Riot, send me an email if you ever care enough to fix these and I will try out your product again.

Please see below for all the flames you want to see about me, my family and my ancestry back the last 10 generations. That would be about par for the most toxic player base of any game i have encountered yet.

61 Comments

Charbenuw6 votes

You say you can't climb ladder but admit that an ELO booster was the reason you lost a game :thinking:

BLS Wolfpack1 votes

How would you know. You weren't in the game, whereas he was.

Kraythax1 votes

{quoted}

You say you can't climb ladder but admit that an ELO booster was the reason you lost a game :thinking:

YOu apparently need to reread the entire post, not just the first 2 sentences.

Shadòw4 votes

ah the typical "i can't climb out of Bronze because of my teammates Rito plz fix" shitpost

PinkSalt3 votes

People aren't even saved from the toxic scum in boards, ouch.

Shadòw1 votes

well tbh I just don't know what his point is.

he says that he admits he is not good and sees no ladder to climb for him. and then he blames Riot for losing games and wants them to fix "it".

Kraythax1 votes

{quoted}

well tbh I just don't know what his point is.

he says that he admits he is not good and sees no ladder to climb for him. and then he blames Riot for losing games and wants them to fix "it".

There are a plethora of posts with ideas of how to fix it. Riot doesnt care.

BLS Wolfpack1 votes

exactly.

Shadòw1 votes

Fix what exactly?

The elo system is working fine. The only people who try to deny that are people who need someone to blame for being stuck instead of just trying to get better.

And exactly that is the reason why Riot is and should be ignoring such "ideas".

BLS Wolfpack2 votes

I'm afraid you have fallen into the dark hole my friend.

Kraythax1 votes

{quoted}

Fix what exactly?

The elo system is working fine. The only people who try to deny that are people who need someone to blame for being stuck instead of just trying to get better.

There are a multitude of things they could do to make the ELO system based on the player, not the wins. They dont care to do it. I have mathematicians that work for me that could make a great ranking algorithm and I am sure a massive company like riot could do the same if they cared to.

Shadòw1 votes

No, because it is still a team oriented game.

When you make your LP gains/losses based on player performance you'll get a even more selfish community than now where everybody is just playing for KDA.

you either win as a team or lose as a team. you only deserve to climb if you are actually able to carry. because only then you are truly better than your current elo.

Kraythax1 votes

{quoted}

No, because it is still a team oriented game.

When you make your LP gains/losses based on player performance you'll get a even more selfish community than now where everybody is just playing for KDA.

you either win as a team or lose as a team. you only deserve to climb if you are actually able to carry. because only then you are truly better than your current elo.

There are other statistical means to evaluate players based on their performance other than KDA. Participation in kills, objectives taken. Riot tracks hundreds of stats per game and per player. There is an ample data set to devise an ELO algorithm that doesn't allow someone to obliterate your ranking with their bad play. Such a system would focus on a PLAYER doing better and better players means better teams. They have a mountain of data and I have mathematicians that actually play this game working for me who are astonished that Riot cant come up with such a ranking algorthm.

Shadòw1 votes

no matter what statistics those are, you will end up with players who only play for those statistics. exactly that is the problem.

decision making is one of the core skills in League. and how you want to track that with statistics? making the right calls in the right moments and all.

statistics aren't everything. a elo system that rates individual player performance in a team oriented simply won't work and that's it. you win or you lose as a team and that's it.

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Kraythax

And when I look at your match history it's exactly what i have thought: You definitely aren't overperforming either. In some games you even had lowest KDA and Damage.

So what can you do?

Stop blaming the system or your teammates for it.

Sometimes you'll just have games where you play good but end up with uncarriable teammates, that happens to everyone.

But even then, what does it get you when you blame your teammates or the system for it? Nothing. You won't improve as a player and will never get better, and that is exactly the problem.

So if you actually want to get better, you'll need to change your mentality. You will only get better if you look at your own mistakes instead of the ones of your teammates. In every situation that went wrong, you'll need to ask yourself what you could have done better and play like that the next time such a situation happens. Even if your teammates fuck up heavily, don't focus on their mistakes, but on your own instead.

If you do that, i will guarantee you that you will see yourself improving and climbing.

But yeah, now it's up to you what you want to do. That would just be my advice if you actually want to get better.

Kraythax1 votes

{quoted}

no matter what statistics those are, you will end up with players who only play for those statistics. exactly that is the problem.

decision making is one of the core skills in League. and how you want to track that with statistics? making the right calls in the right moments and all.

statistics aren't everything. a elo system that rates individual player performance in a team oriented simply won't work and that's it. you win or you lose as a team and that's it.

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Kraythax

And when I look at your match history it's exactly what i have thought: You definitely aren't overperforming either. In some games you even had lowest KDA and Damage.

I play tanks. We rarely kill, rarely do a lot of damage. From what you say the only people that should be "allowed" to climb are ADCs. You don't see my damage mitigated, the crowd control score, the wards placed. You only care about kills. So that is your obsession. In fairness you pretty clearly illustrated why the game at bornze is fubar. KDA ... KDA ... KDA they shout while dropping only a single ward all game and not taking a single objective. Junglers often split push and take objectives, or they exert lane pressure to allow the laners to get CS. There is more to the game than your precious KDA.

Exhibit A why the ranking system is a mess.

So what can you do?

Stop blaming the system or your teammates for it.

Did you read my post? I gather you didnt. I never claimed I was silver, diamond or anything else so get off the lecture circuit. If I get up to 10 minutes, push lanes when laners go back, exert lane pressure and dont die once but bot lane feeds their ADC 6/0 what do you propose I am supposed to do to tank the untankable.

Oh sorry, per above all you care about is KDA and damage.

Exhibit B.

Sometimes you'll just have games where you play good but end up with uncarriable teammates, that happens to everyone.

I don't carry and your obsession with carries is Exhibit C why people like you should not be giving advice. If I am counter ganking that jungler and he gets away but doesn't kill my ADCs then that is a victory. There is more to the game than KDA. At least that is what riot says all the time. Apparently you think different. I think you are spoiled at not having rampant feeders.

But even then, what does it get you when you blame your teammates or the system for it? Nothing.

Oh but you see I am supposed to do ... what exactly ... vs the smurf which had 6x APM than any bronze player and is fed 21/1 ? Oh I know ... carry but stop blaming the game. The game is designed to snowball. And it does. That means if any player snowballs the opponent your precious KDA is going to look dismal.

So lets say .. you are right. You can only climb if you ADC and if you carry every game. Well then that pretty much proves my OP. Riot doesn't give a damn about the regular player only the high ELO players.

You won't improve as a player and will never get better, and that is exactly the problem.

So if you actually want to get better, you'll need to change your mentality. You will only get better if you look at your own mistakes instead of the ones of your teammates. In every situation that went wrong, you'll need to ask yourself what you could have done better and play like that the next time such a situation happens. Even if your teammates fuck up heavily, don't focus on their mistakes, but on your own instead.

And that was the theory, but it doesn't hold up. I improved my skills, my map awareness, my warding, my ganking and have done so extensively. I rarely ever make what i can classify as stupid mistakes like diving towers with little health or over chasing into unknown jungle. But again, if my team has fed one guy that can now 1v5 all of us then it is irrelevant.

If you do that, i will guarantee you that you will see yourself improving and climbing.

But yeah, now it's up to you what you want to do. That would just be my advice if you actually want to get better.

No. I wont. I did this extensively over last three months. I am infintely better than I was. And again I was knocked back to Bronze 5 by 2 enemy smurfs, one legit crappy game, and 3 games where my teammates fed like banshees and nothing i can do about it.

Or am I supposed ot exert mind control over the other players? This notion you spout that ever loss is your fault is complete BS. I can improve my KDA easily, when my team is behind I will just sit on the pad to keep my KDA up and we will lose. You see there is no individual ELO system.

I noticed you are platinum. Good for you. Having players that feed 0/5 in early game is probably rarely known to you because other players are better that you are with. Well those lower have no such luck. When that enemy adc is powered 5/0 and can rip through my 3.5k hp in literally 3 shots, there is NOTHING i can do.

Shadòw1 votes

even Tanks can carry, trust me.

well maybe Ornn is not the best champion atm (he still has upcoming buffs cause he sucks atm), but I have seen plenty of Tanks carry games by just making the right decisions in the right moments. Especially Jungle is a very good role to carry cause you have a lot of influence on the early game which will be the core of the rest of the game. Often a good early game can already mean a win.

the 2 smurfs were unlucky, but it could have also happened that they landed in your team and gave you a free win.

and i never said every loss is your fault, i specifically said that it happens that you'll get unwinnable games. that happens to everyone.

what i said is that even in those games only your own mistakes are important, even if your teammates were far worse than you.

Me being plat and not knowing the feel of having someone feed 0/5 in the early game? That joke was good. Trust me, that won't get better. In every elo there are people getting outperformed. That has various reasons. Sometimes it's just bad luck, or maybe they are tilted, or maybe it actually is because they are worse than their elo and currently dropping. But sometimes these players are on the enemy team, they aren't always on your team. Everyone who says something else is lying.

Yeah I can't carry my bad teammates and usually lose when I have such people too. I can only win games where I have good teammates atm. And that means I am in my deserved Elo. So yeah, to get to Diamond I'll need to get better and carry those games in which i end up with not so good teammates. That's the same way I've come to Plat in the first place. I didn't start there, nobody did.

So back to my point. No you have no control over your teammates minds. The thing is that you get 4 teammates and 5 enemies of the same MMR as you. There is no reason why the bad teammates should always be in your team, and it isn't like that in reality. Sometimes the bad players are on the enemy team. So what matters is what impact you have on the game. Are you able to outperform your enemies as teammates, do you play equally, or do you perform worse? This are the things who determine if you will climb, stagnate or drop after a couple of games. What matters aren't single games, but what impact you have in multiple games.

PinkSalt1 votes

so, someone who goes 21/2 with a team that averages 3/6 should be placed with THOSE people, since the elo is based on wins? That's just a pathetic way to set people up, people should be placed with others who ALSO KNOW how to play, because then the T E A M game would be balanced! :D

Kraythax1 votes

{quoted}

so, someone who goes 21/2 with a team that averages 3/6 should be placed with THOSE people, since the elo is based on wins? That's just a pathetic way to set people up, people should be placed with others who ALSO KNOW how to play, because then the T E A M game would be balanced! :D

Of course KDA is not the only metric. I have played Soraka many times, gotten an S and had 0 kills. Why? Because that is not her role to score kills. Her role is to support the team. Ornn, for example, is a crowd control champ, not a champ that scores kills. He builds tank and soaks up damage. I will have 67k self mitigated damage 2/6/14 record, for example and get 3 honors because team mates know I am the reason they won. Sometimes I will be chain stunned but that's ok because my ADCs are not and can wreck them while they foolishly pound on me. If you score everything based on KDA then you are a good example of the kind of player that wrecks games for people.

PinkSalt1 votes

But someone who feeds can easily bring someones elo down, w/o a problem? Hm.

Kraythax1 votes

{quoted}

But someone who feeds can easily bring someones elo down, w/o a problem? Hm.

Someone that feeds can. If the Bot lane feeds the enemy ADC 5 of 6 kills, that ADC becomes unstoppable and nothing you can do will stop them. Thy snowball and then when you haven't died at all up until then you get wrecked until the end of the game 1/7. So yes. A single person with a bad game can destroy your ELO and in Bronze there are lots of those. The ELO in this game isn't any measure of personal skill. Its just a measure of how lucky you are.

PinkSalt1 votes

No, because it is still a team oriented game

Okay, sure.

you only deserve to climb if you are actually able to carry.

what what?

it is still a team oriented game

the hypocrisy. It's a team game, yet you only deserve to win if YOU carry? HM. TEAMWORK = EVERYONE WORKS TOGETHER

CARRY= YOU DO ALL THE WORK.

HM.

it is still a team oriented game

It's really not, then. a TEAM game requires everyone.. EVERYONE.. working TOGETHER to win. Carrying requires ONE person doing ALL THE WORK TO WIN.

Shadòw1 votes

you misunderstood my point a little bit.

ofc you deserve to win some games in which you don't carry, but you only deserve to climb if you can carry most games.

in this system you'll sometimes get good teams and bad teams, completely normal. but if you only win the games where you have good teammates and play equally good as them then you are in the elo you deserve.

but if you aren't in the elo you deserve, and actually want to climb, you ofc have to carry. and then you'll ofc need to do more than your teammates and be able to carry even your bad teams.

Kraythax1 votes

{quoted}

you misunderstood my point a little bit.

ofc you deserve to win some games in which you don't carry, but you only deserve to climb if you can carry most games.

in this system you'll sometimes get good teams and bad teams, completely normal. but if you only win the games where you have good teammates and play equally good as them then you are in the elo you deserve.

but if you aren't in the elo you deserve, and actually want to climb, you ofc have to carry. and then you'll ofc need to do more than your teammates and be able to carry even your bad teams.

Again you propose someone carry the bad players. How are you supposed to carry when MF is fed 12/1 by stupid ADC supp team. How do you propose to carry when someone picks Twitch jungle, Gallio support? How do you propse to carry when Yasuo is roamin around finding kills while mid lane is being rolled by the opponent. How as a jungler are you supposed to carry all lanes at once. You patently refuse to admit that a player can be good and STUCK in bronze becuause their teammates are messing up. But apparently, according to you, only ADCs deserve to climb.

Shadòw1 votes

that's not what i said...

and I have seen enough Junglers bringing all lanes ahead.

here I will say again that it aren't always your teammates messing up, sometimes the enemies have the players messing up and you'll get a free win.

Kraythax1 votes

{quoted}

People aren't even saved from the toxic scum in boards, ouch.

LOL You deserve an up vote, Sir. :)

BLS Wolfpack1 votes

upvoted

BLS Wolfpack2 votes

It's a pretty good post.

Shadòw1 votes

no it isn't. all i see is whining.

a good post contains suggestions.

BLS Wolfpack1 votes

This post is suggesting that Riot changes their game?

Shadòw2 votes

"I can't climb out of Bronze so change the game and email me ty"

epic suggestion

BLS Wolfpack1 votes

Not a very nice one.

Geauxx4 votes

Wait, so would you care to explain how it's actually riots faults that you have crybaby children as teammates?

BLS Wolfpack1 votes

It's Riot's game

Geauxx4 votes

That is the dumbest argument in existence.

If i shot you on a random Honda parking lot because me and you had problems with each other, is it Hondas fault because it was their parking lot?

BLS Wolfpack1 votes

no, it's the company's fault for letting you have the Honda

Geauxx1 votes

At what point did i say honda gave you a vehicle, or what the reason you got shot for is?

BLS Wolfpack1 votes

no, it's the company's fault for letting you have the gun.

Geauxx1 votes

that means i'd have to have gotten the gun from honda, but i didn't so how's it their fault?

Shadòw1 votes

because they didn't take the gun away from you.

BLS Wolfpack1 votes

exactly

UnboundHades1 votes

How would they have known u had a gun

Geauxx1 votes

because apparently they are magicians that know all

Kraythax1 votes

{quoted}

because apparently they are magicians that know all

No interest in ADCing and apparently only ADCs are entitled to climb out

UnboundHades1 votes

Lmao if u can't climb your bad that's a fact there isn't "my team is holding me back" if u can play adc jg mid or top u can climb

Geauxx1 votes

no it's just you, i climbed out as support... considering im a sup main.

In the end it's just going to come back to it being you.

Kraythax1 votes

{quoted}

no it's just you, i climbed out as support... considering im a sup main.

In the end it's just going to come back to it being you.

Yep, when bot feeds 0/6 thats my fault. Right ... ok no rational convo I guess.

Geauxx1 votes

If what you call rational is you blaming everything on everyone else than sure.... because that's what you're doing.

And looking through your match history, you have 0 reason to be blaming anyone other than yourself.

Kraythax1 votes

{quoted}

That is the dumbest argument in existence.

If i shot you on a random Honda parking lot because me and you had problems with each other, is it Hondas fault because it was their parking lot?

You set up a ridiculous scenario, defeated it and believe that defeats my point of Riot having a system that is not friendly to average players. Classic Straw man fallacy. No, sorry. Non-Sequitur. Try again.

Geauxx1 votes

its not a rediculous scenario, and i didn't defeat it. they only thing i did was show real world example of something that can happen and has happened.

You're trying to blame riot because other players are acting up and doing bad things... so you use the worst logic possible and just straight up blame riot.

Then go to the forums and try to point out people that might flame you because they will call you out on obvious stuff thats your fault because it is in hopes that maybe they wont do it now.

Sorry man, try actually just getting decent at the game instead of blaming other players and riot on why you cant climb out of bronze 5 consistently.

SwiftKitten882 votes

i climbed out of bronze 3 times.. (every season i played in except season three when i played directly into silver) twice as Nidalee (who can't solo carry) and once as support Morgana

this is bronze... not silver... at least in silver the enmies may be dumb but arn't quite dumb enough to stop you... in bronze... your actauly ARE worthy of silver.. you WILL climb out.

i have been down as for at bronze 4 zero lp before.. but i have had the good grace never to be bronze 5... still you CAN climb out of bronze... and if your stuck in bronze FIVE? yeah... no comment

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