Why Tanks are bad Rn

Cdore·Sep 27, 2019·4 votes·1,791 views

We've had this discussion so many times, so I'm just going to do a summary of what's going on in a abridged matter.

Damage generates a lot of gold: killing minion, turrets, champions, dragon, herald. Gold generates more damage. Runes give free damage and augments damage as you level and or buy items bought by gold.

Defense generates nothing. In fact, as damage increases, the gold efficiency of defense decreases. Nowadays, damage accelerates so fast that defense value is currently negative.

Defense generates gold from: nothing.

Having high resistances, health, and damage reduction is not rewarded. The only exception is champs with **damage **ratios from health and resistances like Sion and Rammus. Or the item Titanic. Rare exceptions.

24 Comments

KeiagaSep 27, 20192 votes

It doesn't take damage to farm effectively.

This isn't a solo game, so as a tank you should be helping your team, which most likely has 3 or 4 other damage champs, get dragons and herald(and champs, but I won't include assist gold)

People can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that a tank isn't the main character of the team. They're essentially just another support, unable to do anything effectively themselves, but creating opportunities for their team.

Unless we're talking about the many juggernauts and tanks that do damage as well like Darius DrMundo Garen Illaoi Kled Mordekaiser Nasus Olaf Trundle Volibear Warwick

MrFawknSunshineSep 27, 20191 votes

which one of those champs are a tank? cuz i dont see one

KeiagaSep 27, 20191 votes

According to the in-game client, every single one of them is a tank, despite whatever asinine mental rules you have in your head that determine what a "tank" is.

MrFawknSunshineSep 27, 20192 votes

not my rules, i didnt make them up riot did.

but none of them are tanks

KeiagaSep 27, 20191 votes

Oh so you're just factually, objectively, unarguably wrong. They're all listed as tanks. Please inform yourself before trying to talk about anything. The amount of misinformation makes me think you're being wrong on purpose

edit: going to laugh if you try to tell me juggernauts aren't tanks

MrFawknSunshineSep 27, 20192 votes

if you research and it and when riot did the juggernaut up date and champ reclassification

its not MISINFORMATION

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Champion_classes

https://imgur.com/EyeK1Ta https://imgur.com/WbLxjai

https://imgur.com/UX9a343 https://imgur.com/NrCpz68

KeiagaSep 27, 20191 votes

A website that literally has the word "fandom" isn't more official and doesn't have more say in the matter over the actual game itself. So get out of here with your misinformation.

MrFawknSunshineSep 27, 20192 votes

you can deny all you want. this page was created after riot themselves reclassified champs

look it up

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

KeiagaSep 27, 20191 votes

I guess you're committed to flat out ignoring what the actual game itself says. And you're committed to ignoring what the connotation of the word "tank" has meant in gaming for the past couple decades.

How old are you that you still don't know wiki pages don't count as credible sources? Either way, I'll leave you to your mental gymnastics.

MrFawknSunshineSep 27, 20192 votes

i am posting links of RIOTS POST over the champ classifications

not mine. i didnt make them. i didnt make the classes.

this is RIOTS the last two links were threads created by riots DEV TEAM explaining the classes

MrFawknSunshineSep 27, 20192 votes

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses

thefatlazycatSep 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

According to the in-game client, every single one of them is a tank, despite whatever asinine mental rules you have in your head that determine what a "tank" is.

those are a mix of juggernauts and divers, none of them are categorized as a tank

KeiagaSep 28, 20191 votes

Wrong. Theyre SUBcategorized as juggernauts and divers. Its been how long since riot introduced their new classifications? 2 or 3 years? I already posted a screenshot of them still being listed as tanks in the client.

If they ever update the client to use their subcategories instead of the general terms like tank, assassin, mage, ill have less of a leg to stand on.

But either way this is some pretty pedantic crap that youre trying to tell me that "champs with high health, high resistances, and several survivability sskill to help them not die" are somehow not tanks

The thigh guySep 28, 20193 votes

{quoted}

It doesn't take damage to farm effectively.

This isn't a solo game, so as a tank you should be helping your team, which most likely has 3 or 4 other damage champs, get dragons and herald(and champs, but I won't include assist gold)

People can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that a tank isn't the main character of the team. They're essentially just another support, unable to do anything effectively themselves, but creating opportunities for their team.

Unless we're talking about the many juggernauts and tanks that do damage as well like

Problems arise when tanks can’t even do their job or creating opportunities anymore because their stats and items do not work.

KeiagaSep 28, 20191 votes

In plat elo

Kled is 2/45 Mordekaiser is 10/45 Illaoi is 15/45. And those are just 3 of the ones I named.

Most tanksare in the better half as far as toplane goes.

Two tanks are in the top 10 supports.

Seems like they do their job just fine.

CdoreSep 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

In plat elo

is 2/45 is 10/45 is 15/45. And those are just 3 of the ones I named.

Most tanksare in the better half as far as toplane goes.

Two tanks are in the top 10 supports.

Seems like they do their job just fine.

Those three aren't tanks. They're tanky in the sense they have a lot of damage mitigation which makes the "true tanks" blush. Imagine Maokai with Morde's W. Or Sion with Illaoi's ult and Q sustain capabilities. The argument here is that there's more broken champs that do the job of damage reduction and crowd control better than the actual tanks. The tanks in the traditional sense of the game are part of the old League of Legends design, and are the only class that has not been updated yet.

KeiagaSep 28, 20191 votes

In the traditional sense a tank is defined primarily by their ability to survive a fight. "Tankiness" refers to durability and defensive capabilities. Crowd control is never the defining factor.

Calling some of the hardest to kill champs in the game "not TRUE tanks" because they lack cc is a joke.

CdoreSep 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

In the traditional sense a tank is defined primarily by their ability to survive a fight. "Tankiness" refers to durability and defensive capabilities. Crowd control is never the defining factor.

Calling some of the hardest to kill champs in the game "not TRUE tanks" because they lack cc is a joke.

I think we're missing something here, so let me clarify.

The fact that the champions designed specifically to be tanks are now less tanky than champs that were designed to be bruiser is me pointing out that there's a failure in design. "tank" champions are designed in a way to be balanced in what they can do specifically. High cooldowns, high mana costs, low mobility, set roles. This was the traditional sense of how rammus, singed, malphite, and the rest of the "tanks" were designed. Meanwhile, bruisers and juggernauts are pretty much tanking a lot better than these champs.

So you're right that functionally, these champs are now considered tanks despite Riot not listing them as such. The point of the thread is that the traditionally design champs are underpowered because of their high dependence on their cds, their mana, their linear design, and the items that make them work. A lot of champs today come working right out the box, and their power spikes come a lot sooner. Champs like maokai, sion, malphite, rammus, etc require 2 to 4 items to get rolling, but by then, the game is closing or the carries are near full build if not full. This is just based on the how much gold you get from having more damage to begin with. Hell, Pantheon has a blocking ability that any of the tanks would dream of having. Why do a fighter get such a great ability?

The potential to snowball in this game is far easier for damage champions than champs like Alistar or any champ that is designed exclusively around being defense instead of offense. It's why Braum and Leona are designed supports and were designed as such. The rest of the tanks are dead out in the water until they are either updated or even reworked.

KeiagaSep 28, 20191 votes

How are champs like mundo and garen not designed specifically around being a tank? Theyre listed exclusively as tanks in the client last i checked.

I can see why illaoi might not be considered a tank to you since her survivability is based on lifesteal but garen has a health regen passive, a passive bonus to armor and resistance, and a damage reduction. Doesnt get much tankier than that.

As far as snowball potential goes, tanks shouldnt have that potential in the first place but tank items are about 500-1000 gold less than damage items to make up for it

CdoreSep 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

How are champs like mundo and garen not designed specifically around being a tank? Theyre listed exclusively as tanks in the client last i checked.

I can see why illaoi might not be considered a tank to you since her survivability is based on lifesteal but garen has a health regen passive, a passive bonus to armor and resistance, and a damage reduction. Doesnt get much tankier than that.

As far as snowball potential goes, tanks shouldnt have that potential in the first place but tank items are about 500-1000 gold less than damage items to make up for it

And tank items are still too expensive for the value they give. What was being hit on about making tank item less expensive, I don't think thats the right route to go. If anything, that solution simply highlights that currently tanks have a harder time generating gold, at least at the rate that damage champions can generate them. An adc can have two to three full builds by 15 mins, while a tank is just finishing one due to slow farming, having to roam, and low mobility. They don't get benefits of generated gold income coming in fast like the other roles.

What should happen is either all the tanks get their abilities updated to pull defense-like traits into their kits, or the items become scaleable based on items built. BUT even this is not a good solution cause, like Stoneplate or Warmogs, it requires you to still buy 1 to 2 items first to function, while ADCS, for instance, come online the moment they get their first full item built. Hell, a BF sword is huge in lane. Tanks don't have that huge item that instantly lets them take over a lane. Their powerspikes are delayed compared to other classes. Just earlier, a Nasus q'd me in lane with just a sheen through my rammus W, and it still took off 1/5th of my health despite having brambles.

Sinister AnubisSep 27, 20191 votes

I dont want tanks buffed due to another tank meta. It will drag games out to far the game will be boring and the only champions capable of killing a tank would be ADC and a tank can solo a adc if they are to strong. No assassin would be viable as there would be survivability creep and to much cc and the only other champions played would be control mages. Imagine only seeing juggernauts and tanks every game

The thigh guySep 28, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ninja Anubis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NLzyt2Ek,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-27T18:24:43.096+0000)

I dont want tanks buffed due to another tank meta. It will drag games out to far the game will be boring and the only champions capable of killing a tank would be ADC and a tank can solo a adc if they are to strong. No assassin would be viable as there would be survivability creep and to much cc and the only other champions played would be control mages. Imagine only seeing juggernauts and tanks every game

Oh. My. God. A tank meta PHYSICALLY cannot happen right now.

%pen is through the roof and there is no downside to building it

Sinister AnubisSep 28, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NLzyt2Ek,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-09-28T00:15:55.955+0000)

Oh. My. God. A tank meta PHYSICALLY cannot happen right now.

%pen is through the roof and there is no downside to building it

That's weird because pen and % pen has not changed in ages lol