How do you play against Ziggs Botlane as an ADC?

Chief Mayonnaise·Jan 10, 2017·3 votes·2,389 views

Legit question. I'm trying to learn how you play against this. Like what champions are favorable picks?

18 Comments

463Jan 10, 20173 votes

Dont stand in the minions, he will Q minions, hit you and the wave at the same time.

His main concern is pushing you in and chipping at your HP

Early game his Q CD is not as low as it can be, harass between his skill rotation.

Your best bet is to farm and counter push. And most importantly, do not get hit.

You'll most likely want to run 18/0/12 with Warlords, to sustain against him.

duckarpJan 10, 20172 votes

You don't play ziggs as an adc, ever. You play him as APC in every lane.

CppLJan 10, 20171 votes

Champs who can push back and dodge his poke.Have you tryed sivir? i didint try myself ,im just guessing.

dakota saturnJan 10, 20171 votes

Earlier I had a thresh/cait in my bot vs a ziggs/sona.

They dominated the ziggs all game and made him useless.

Try playing mid lane vs him as an apc and learn to juke the skillshots and how he zones with the minefield.

Try to not trade when he has passive up so he has to use it to farm then poke him. It's all about the supports in the matchup.

I imagine MF is probably good vs him too since she has high movespeed and can poke him behind minions. I wouldn't take like Jhin vs him.

{quoted}

Champs who can push back and dodge his poke.Have you tryed sivir? i didint try myself ,im just guessing.

Sivir is good for CC supports like Morg/Blitz, I'd think, but ziggs has so much poke that her shield will go down instantly and then she's left with no mobility or poke.

CppLJan 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NLE5tFey,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-10T08:53:21.370+0000)

Earlier I had a thresh/cait in my bot vs a ziggs/sona.

They dominated the ziggs all game and made him useless.

Try playing mid lane vs him as an apc and learn to juke the skillshots and how he zones with the minefield.

Try to not trade when he has passive up so he has to use it to farm then poke him. It's all about the supports in the matchup.

I imagine MF is probably good vs him too since she has high movespeed and can poke him behind minions. I wouldn't take like Jhin vs him.

Sivir is good for CC supports like Morg/Blitz, I'd think, but ziggs has so much poke that her shield will go down instantly and then she's left with no mobility or poke.

His main poke is Q.Wich is the easiest skillshot to dodge ,just dont stand near minions.And then you just push back with her Q,W combo.Sivir has like the best wave clear out of all adc.I dunno ,like i said i didint tryed myself ,but it sound prety decent.Specially with support like janna.Your shield ,janna shield...what poke?

NekoniClawsJan 10, 20171 votes

So the suggestions I've seen around too are Jhin, Caitlyn and Sivir. So those're the three adcs you can play now.... or not. Rofl...

Jhin is -kind of- viable against Ziggs. While it is true he can't dodge the skill shots as easily, he does have the range, and the waveclear to wait Ziggs out.

It's all about maxing W and preparing for level 6. You MUST have Ziggs' health down to 50% before you hit 6. So you're able to immediately make a quip about how Ziggs doesn't outrange you and following that, delete the interloper from your lane. His death must be poetic.

While I'm not suggesting him as the counter to Ziggs, it's not the end of the world if you're matched up. It's just not the pure dominance you're used to with Jhin.

Ziggs 's biggest offence is his waveclear can lose you control, very easily, over river bush (no ganks- if you're MVP, GG) and subsequently over dragon.

Ezreal Is theoretically his perfect counter botlane. Most adcs go either range- or mobility. Ezreal goes both. He is particulaly weak early game, between tear and full item, and his waveclear isn't that good, so you MUST take a support who can help. You'll probably be pinned to tower and waiting it out... but, that's how many Ezreal games actually go in the first place. Better than Jhin or Sivir? I don't know. He has potential!

Corki Sivir Jhin VS Ziggs actually have a possitive winrate, but not laning against him. KogMaw Lucian Kalista do worse against him (the last two, despite mobility) and their bad winrate is also starting out in a different lane, so I expect it'd be even worse from in lane.

But what I find (and agree with) is it's the support that really makes or breaks a Ziggs botlane, for example: Ziggs + 'AOE slow/stun supports' Nasus Lux Morgana Is a new form of torture previously unknown to man. If you're against this I don't think it's really POSSIBLE to engage except in a tiny window where they've BOTH used their slows/snares and missed.

Countering him I have to agree plucking him INTO range is the way to go. Thresh sounds PERFECT. And on that note Blitzcrank would definitely work (actually a Ziggs counter already) Sona Soraka could help with waveclear a little and undo Ziggs' poke, very useful if you have a nice BF + level 6 powerspike (MF, Jhin, Jinx) Janna Karma Morgana could prevent poke and allow you to go on the offensive. Nami Would also do a very nice job of disengaging him from your tower if your waveclear was lacking, and disabling him long enough to be attacked. Lux Morgana Can flat out keep him off your tower and help you waveclear.

TBH the biggest problem with Ziggs for me..... is the snow map and Snow Day Ziggs make his Hexplosive Minefield hard to notice. And I think Ziggs players know it. I wouldn't be suprised if this Ziggs Botlane was.... seasonal.

V The Support VJan 10, 20171 votes

You gotta windmill back.

Tristana Zilean

AhristocatsJan 10, 20171 votes

TwistedFate

if you want to play an adc Sivir

Poop JellyJan 10, 20171 votes

First of all... I'd like to say, in my opinion, Ziggs bot lane has been the best thing that ever happened for a long time =]]]

I'd say treat Ziggs like how you'd face him at mid. Dodge skllshots, push back hard if he's showing signs of pushing the lane and keep him in control.

Titanium70Jan 10, 20171 votes

You cant exactly counter Ziggs if you dont know his Supp. But always keep in mind that Ziggs has ZERO sustain besides his pots. Make him pay for this. OFC you can always try to win your lane by getting a counterpick - but start from another angle: What does Ziggs want on Bot. The Tower. Denie him that. Push like crazy, ward!, force him waste his mana and than to back giving you a nice advantage.

Meep ManJan 10, 20171 votes

Tristana Can pretty easily shove the wave right back in his direction Sivir Is also really good due to her spell shield and decent wave clear

Without knowing what his Support is though, it's hard to determine who tonplay if you are going for the kill.

Subject 5Jan 10, 20171 votes

In the meta that you are considered Hitler for not following:

Supports: Soraka Alistar The Carry: Malzahar Supports: Alistar Soraka Janna The Carry: Viktor Supports: Alistar Soraka The Carry: Ekko Supports: Malphite The Carry: Orianna Supports: Nami The Carry: Leblanc Supports: Annie The Carry: Ryze

You get the picture. All of those picks and combination don't follow the meta- but they are very good at solving certain problems and gaining a priority in lane that Ziggs and another support can't make up for; if he is in lane with a sustain, pick an engage support. Rather than having an adc- you can solve the pushing problem with a champion like Malzahar- who can push without very much of a problem. There are plenty of ways to solve the problem: the current adc meta just is struggling with it.

NekoniClawsJan 10, 20172 votes

Any AD suggestions?

I mean. To avoid making a terribad teamcomp just to counter Ziggs....

Subject 5Jan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Any AD suggestions?

I mean. To avoid making a terribad teamcomp just to counter Ziggs....

Doesn't that go both ways though? If Ziggs is the bottom carry then the team comp for them would also be terribad- but you can make a team based on Ziggs or another carry.

Alistar MonkeyKing Veigar Would be an amazing team composition With Malzahar- "Do you have a VIP on your team?"

And another example is Leblanc Karma Amumu JarvanIV Viktor "Did somebody say, "Don't move?""

Last example is: Ryze Morgana Zac Trundle Talon "We don't care about terrain."

If you want an AD then pay the price that Ziggs will fuck you up. Remember when Sivir was flavor of the month- and she was nerfed- because she was flavor of the month? They never DID revert that nerfs, despite them being . . . team orientated and not damage orientated.

NekoniClawsJan 10, 20171 votes

Ziggs' winrate is 54.3%, and that's midlane- if he gets nerfed it's not because he's botlane.

I'm not saying a game can't go duo APC, but if our top/jungler AND bot have to change/limit their champion choices because our ADC went APC to counter Ziggs- that's limiting the choices of three (or four!) people. If an enemy team goes 80% AP like that, I'm going MR, no questions asked- (I main Leona btw- stun the assassins, shield the adc, soak the damage)

RandomoniumJan 10, 20171 votes

The most success I've had against ziggs is by out pushing him. If you play passive and don't push the he will harrass you out of lane. By pushing he has to use his mana on the wave rather than on you. Going warlord's bloodlust also helps sustain though his poke.

KyovulpesJan 10, 20171 votes

From what I experienced it ends up coming down to what/who his support is. Anyone who has heavy CC /w ziggs in the bot lane and you might as well call it quits cause it's a kill lane at that point. But the healing/shielding supports /w ZIggs: you can go Caitlyn Twitch or any other AA adc that can utilize item 3085 and warlords and make sure your support grabs item 3060 teach his dumbass not to go down there anymore