You dont have to win your lane, just dont feed it.

warpenguin555·Oct 18, 2015·117 votes·5,903 views

If you are Aatrox vs Darius, you dont have to dive in with Q and get blown up. You can just try to farm while bloodwell is up and/or poke with E. If you are Gnar vs Pantheon, pretty much the same thing applies. if you cant safely farm, try roaming around the map. If you are waiting on an item for a powerspike, just play safe. Kills might look good and help you snowball, but around 11-13 cs = the same gold as a kill. There is no rule saying you have to kill or even fight your lane opponent. Nobody is going to get mad at you for not feeding your lane. Concept seems to be lost here in low elo. RIP

121 Comments

Mecha MaIphiteOct 18, 201561 votes

Riven but i need to get killz so i can carry my garbige teems

5 minutes later

Riven 0/5/0 gg report noob jg

CinCameronOct 18, 20153 votes

ikr... i have bottom and top laners who just persist in trying to get kills and end up trading kills or going something like 2/4/1 and say they are doing fine... you're not doing fine if the enemy adc is 4/1/0 with a 20 CS lead 12 minutes in... lmfao

Ariel the CruelOct 19, 201536 votes

Shen mid.

Shen can't go mid.

He does fine. He can't kill anything!
They can't kill him either.

Dextix LTOct 19, 20151 votes

It works really well actually. One time my teammate lux asked me to go to mid vs zed for the same reason. Because you just cant kill shen if he doesnt want you to kill him.

Oh, teamwork is so beautiful when it works.

DirkTarTarOct 19, 20151 votes

Season 2 Yorick mid vs Morgana was my "I'm pissed that Morgana is in every m'fing game"

Rot PandaOct 20, 20152 votes

I ran Yorick support because I was tired of my adc's getting Rocket hugged by Blitzcrank in season 2. Worked fairly well in ranked.

HentRexOct 21, 20151 votes

Still fun to do in normal. :)

A Miss FortuneOct 19, 20151 votes

Sounds like every Vayne

360D3GR3SSOct 19, 20153 votes

MissFortune

Only Play DariusOct 19, 20156 votes

To be fair there are some toplaners that are anxious to get kills in lane because that's all they are good for, since they get shut out of most teamfights. Darius, Renekton, and old Fiora for example. Not everyone plays champs like Wukong where you can go 0/1 in lane and still have godlike teamfight presence.

OyddAWqJ5rOct 19, 20158 votes

New Darius thrives in teamfights. Raidboss mode with those heals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz0YAzRWIQ0

Only Play DariusOct 19, 20158 votes

He still gets kited, CC'd, disengaged, or otherwise shut out of most fights where he doesn't get a solid flank. Rework helped him not be completely useless outside of 1v1 but he's still the slow lumbering woodchipper we all know and love (and hate).

DeliothOct 19, 20154 votes

Yes, but if they're running from you, they aren't killing your team. Ultimate tank presence.

ShaftyMegeeOct 21, 20151 votes

Oh lordy so true

Clown ApocalypseOct 18, 201512 votes

Not dying is so underrated. It solves so many problems in game when you simply make an effort to not die more than 5 times. I try to hold off on dying as long as possible. It's almost impossible to have a good KDA when you die 10+ times a game on average. Plus....not dying makes it easier to farm and secure objectives. I'd rather lose a war of attrition than get flat out hiroshima'd in the rift. You go 0 and 5 in lane that creates a whole slew of problems for your teammates. Better to just lose the farming war and not die. If you die repeatedly you lose the farming war anyways, and you put yourself further behind.

LordGeovanniOct 19, 20151 votes

ah but when you become so passive in your lane especially top lane that you just let the enemy farm that he beats you in lane after first back they usually come back so strong that you cant even leave from under your tower and that after they poke you twice you they can dive you under your tower and you sill end up feeding those kills. if you see a laner gettingin problem and dieing 2-3 time for nothing in lane it would be in everyones best intrest to get as many guys as possible and gank the fed person

Occams RaiserOct 19, 20151 votes

this post is about staying alive instead of dying. It is not about (as you describe) a slow loss.

LordGeovanniOct 20, 20151 votes

i never described a slow loss because having that kind of mind set will more likely give way to a loss. but if you loseing enough that being around the enemy champion will get you killed that means you have to back away from the farm if you back away from the farm the enemy gets to free farm if he free farms he will get better items than you and become stronger and faster than you. if he become stronger and faster than you he can then dive you and pick up the kills anyway. the best thing to do is sit back yes but also ask for help and it doesnt just have to be your jungler it can be an adjacent lane they can see how a fed champion effects them to make the game harder but they often dont see the point in trying to help a person who knows they are having problems and when the snowball kills eventually come in they will still rage at the person in lets say top lane because their opponent got out of control. if you pokeing the enemy its not likey the same 15 minions that they could have cs'ed before are gonna be there after they try to take their time to deal with you meaning there is value is distracting your opponent and causeing them to miss cs and gold value of champions go down as they die over an over.

Occams RaiserOct 21, 20151 votes

ah but when you become so passive in your lane especially top lane that you just let the enemy farm that he beats you in lane after first back they usually come back so strong that you cant even leave from under your tower and that after they poke you twice you they can dive you under your tower and you sill end up feeding those kills.

I mean there is a difference in passivity and safe. you have described losing your lane slowly. If two opponents don't kill each other and merely farm while harassing each other, that is more in line with safe play. The opposite of safe is not passive or tower hugging. Just don't tower dive or over extend.

LordGeovanniOct 21, 20151 votes

you speak of ideal safe play while the person in the opening discribed getting bullied in lane

Clown ApocalypseOct 19, 20153 votes

{quoted}

ah but when you become so passive in your lane especially top lane that you just let the enemy farm that he beats you in lane after first back they usually come back so strong that you cant even leave from under your tower and that after they poke you twice you they can dive you under your tower and you sill end up feeding those kills. if you see a laner gettingin problem and dieing 2-3 time for nothing in lane it would be in everyones best intrest to get as many guys as possible and gank the fed person

So instead of making them farm 15 minions which is like 2 waves and takes a few minutes, you give them 15 minions instantly by dying. Then they proceed to farm the 15 minions anyways. And probably take your turret. Turret farming isn't hard. melee minions can take 2 turret shots and one auto finishes them. Caster minions if you hit them once, let the turret hit them second, your third hit drops them. I'm horrible at farming in the middle of the lane because the minions mess up my timing early on.....but when i'm pushed to my turret I know how to get that money. If I'm gonna lose my lane I'd rather lose it as sloooooowly as possible. Not gonna give them in 5 minutes what I could have drug out for 15 minutes by just refusing to fight them and scavenging minions. It's not an exciting existence, but it gives your team at least time to gank the person. If you keep trying to fight the person, getting rekt, then sitting under your turret with no health pinging for ganks trying to farm.......you're just making life hard on yourself. buy a bunch of pots....stand under the turret...avoid all the damage you can....and last hit minions.

The thing about only being down by farm is mid and late game....minions flow freely....jungle camps are for the taking. You can catch back up. And I'm sorry but nobody in lane gets so strong that they can just poke you twice and kill you unless you are just refusing to itemize against them or you are very bad at keeping out of range. Some people get in a losing lane and keep building damage when they're already way behind. Much more effective to play it safe till your tower falls then ward and roam and see if you have better luck killing other people. Even if they are doing some LCS style farming 15 minutes in they might have about 150 minions. If your mid adc or jungler are farming even remotely well.....enemy top lane isn't gonna really be much richer than any of them. Especially if they managed to pick up a few kills elsewhere. It's feeding them that makes them all of a sudden OP and getting doubles when your jungler finally makes it to gank your lane.

I try not to die more than 5 times a game. top 6 chars I play....most deaths I average is 5.3. On a support at that. If only I got teammates that hated dying as much as I do. It would be easier for me to climb. Not saying I don't have games where I die 10 times but those are few and far between. My teammates frequently have 15-20 deaths. Even when I win sometimes. Its pretty disgusting the amount of feed that goes on for no reason.

LordGeovanniOct 20, 20151 votes

some times many of riots unbalanced over buffed champions make it into lane and then steam roll balanced (underpowered is most people like to say) champions and at level 4 -8 it isnt even safe to be under your tower any more even less so to try to last hit under it when the champion that bullies you out of lane and farms while you have none can back before you get an items and poke 2 moves when the minion wave reaches back to the middle of the lane and then you around 40% hp and when you they done pushing the minion wave to the tower you cant farm cause they full engage they you try to run they faster than you cause they got farm gold and a back even if you got a back too and also stronger than you for the same reason they can beat you and chase your flash with theirs and get out of tower because they only needed to hit you twice in the first place

Clown ApocalypseOct 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

some times many of riots unbalanced over buffed champions make it into lane and then steam roll balanced (underpowered is most people like to say) champions and at level 4 -8 it isnt even safe to be under your tower any more even less so to try to last hit under it when the champion that bullies you out of lane and farms while you have none can back before you get an items and poke 2 moves when the minion wave reaches back to the middle of the lane and then you around 40% hp and when you they done pushing the minion wave to the tower you cant farm cause they full engage they you try to run they faster than you cause they got farm gold and a back even if you got a back too and also stronger than you for the same reason they can beat you and chase your flash with theirs and get out of tower because they only needed to hit you twice in the first place

What I've found is people just don't like building defensive items. I played shaco top against a Jax last night. The Jax ended up 20-21-xx. I murdered him in lane. He never built a drop of magic resis or hp in lane. I went 14/5/20. He got more kills than me but died 4 times as much. Had he bought one single MR item first, he probably could have won because late game he was stompin my ass when I tried to fight him and our Leblanc was like 27/6/13. That one early magic resis item would have stopped half the kills I got on him, and half the kills leblanc got on him. Instead he kept building his attack speed, lifesteal, and AD. Late game he was strong asf and nobody could solo him, but it didn't matter. Me and LB could two shot anyone on their team. People need to learn to itemize based on their matchup and how its going or may go instead of running the same runes, masteries, and items regardless of who their lane opponent is. If you die more than once to your lane opponent and you don't buy a defensive item you are trolling yourself and your team.

LordGeovanniOct 21, 20151 votes

i favor jax as a life steal tank with mix damage my only offensive items are item 3124 item 3078 and item 3146 built in that order with item 1315 item 3065 and a situational armor item item 3075 item 3143 item 3742

Clown ApocalypseOct 21, 20151 votes

see he built item 3153 item 3074 item 3078 item 3072 and I forget what else to finish I think maybe a rage blade. he was strong as shit late game but I we got fed off of him

AbyssphereOct 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

ah but when you become so passive in your lane especially top lane that you just let the enemy farm that he beats you in lane after first back they usually come back so strong that you cant even leave from under your tower and that after they poke you twice you they can dive you under your tower and you sill end up feeding those kills. if you see a laner gettingin problem and dieing 2-3 time for nothing in lane it would be in everyones best intrest to get as many guys as possible and gank the fed person

It depends what you do to stay alive. If you need to play super passive to the point of losing farm and being bullied out to avoid dying then it's a slow, inevitable loss, but there's no reason you shouldn't be the one outfarming the enemy laner either. Being passive =/= losing as long as you're not zoning yourself.

BhagswagOct 18, 20155 votes

True. To me, winning is having my tower for as long as possible, and not dying like hell. Playing safe doesn't mean playing scared; it's a smart strategy.

CinCameronOct 18, 20155 votes

Everyone focuses on trying to get kills when that is exactly what can and usually will make you lose ground...

farming + counter poking is all you should be doing. If you are struggling because your lane opponent is only last hitting so that your lane is right next to their turret, go into your jungle and take the wolf, bird or krug camp.... don't just sit there and wonder what to do because you'll be open to ganks...

The jungle is literally free gold and exp to EVERYONE... not just your jungler... the jungler's goal is to secure buffs and keep you from falling behind... the jungle is practically for everyone to take from every once in a while. once you shove your lane, it's best to grab a wolf camp or bird camp to get some exp and gold while your opponent is pushing back.

IcyPepperOct 18, 20152 votes

Hey now, wolf gromp and krugs are the best camps to take, but always be wary of the bird camp!

Unless you're sure the jungler isn't going to need that camp, be wary of taking it. It has probably the best smite buff imo, and makes it infinitely easier to gank lanes and secure objectives.

DazedOnlookerOct 19, 20151 votes

I usually take the bird camp, but only the baby birds, same for the red buff and wolves, and leave the mom for my jungler...its the only thing i can do when my lane is pushed under the enemy turret most of the time..xD.

IcyPepperOct 19, 20152 votes

Nah, for most camps you'll want to take the big one too for both xp and gold as well to reset the camp for your jungler to get full xp/gold from it. Assuming, of course, they're not five seconds away from taking it, more like if they're busy across the map.

But leaving the big chicken I guess is the exception. That thing isn't cleared for just numbers, the buff is insanely good.

Only Play DariusOct 19, 20158 votes

You must be the reason I keep seeing toplaners killing my group/wolves right in front of me or even worse last hit the camp from me. I have a bone to pick with you.

FastAsHeckOct 19, 20154 votes

NONONO DON'T LISTEN TO THIS GUY! As a jungler main I HATE it when people take my camps. You have an entire lane of minions coming at you on a silver plate, let me have my frogs and chickens and all the animals. Not to mention I get +30 gold from them (THIS INCLUDES THE SCUTTLE CRAB, STOP LAST HITTING MY CRAB!!!)

Well, unless I'm dead, that is. If I have 20 seconds to respawn and you see blue is up, I'll probably head there once I'm up, so you can take the Krugs. But asking is still good.

GhiOct 19, 20155 votes

[deleted]

JakraOct 19, 20153 votes

Then don't play Nasus.

Occams RaiserOct 19, 20154 votes

People need to try and emulate pro play: smart engage, 1 v 1 as rare as possible, don't die and get your win from turrets falling. All the kills in the world wont make that nexus blow up.

Kitten of EvilOct 19, 20154 votes

Not necessarily. I was Anivia against a Fizz awhile back so I was playing passively -- died once under tower even with passive up when Xin came to gank. So I stayed back by tower and tried to CS as best I could from a distance... and our team's Caitlyn starts complaining about my low CS and then comes mid (after our bot tower had already fallen) and starts taking my CS.

Some people will complain anyway.

MÖRTIMEROct 19, 20154 votes

Finally someone with brains. Seriously, its the most annoying thing when someone keeps diving and going for kills when it's clear that can't. And when you try and tell them to farm under turret, they don't listen. Honestly, if you're doing a hard match-up or just against an OP champ.... Darius Riven Garen Then it's better to keep lane pressure so that they can't leave and rek other lanes. You don't have to kill just Farm for the WIN!

RalanrOct 18, 20153 votes

You should post this in tips.

USMCTUBAOct 19, 20153 votes

What does cs mean? Creep score?

WutsKrakenOct 19, 20153 votes

I agree, but your examples aren't that great

Aatrox will never be able to farm vs a competent Darius (his best bet is a level 1 cheese to hopefully zone darius and escape before he gets 5 bleed stacks, even then its risky) and same goes to Gnar vs Pantheon.

Also, generally in SoloQ, you can't rely on your team being able to be ready for you to pull a gank and you can't get item powerspikes with gold

FastAsHeckOct 19, 20153 votes

I don't understand some people. They have the scaling champion, the enemy is a Riven but "noooo I must not lose that ranged minion even though I am at half health and she is at full. Oh look I died, jungler noob 9x"

XP is the only thing that really matters, as long as you get that you are set. Grab as much cs as possible without risking dying or trading badly, and remember that 1 cs for 3 health potions is a really ~~good~~ bad deal. If you are 0-3 before I (the jungler) finish my first clear, I am never going to gank you. I'm just going to die if I do so.

Dr Tony ChopperOct 19, 20153 votes

Had this problem with an allied player. She was complaining that I hadn't done anything . It was 10 minutes in the game I had zero kills and zero deaths. I was playing Ziggs while the enemy was a Zed. of course I'm not going to jump in, he counters me hard and I'm very squishy. I've been poking him the whole time while collecting lots of cs but that didn't matter to this ally of mine who told me I should just stop playing league and I'm the reason we were losing even though my lane was the only one where I had all my turrets still up -_- needless to say I reported her for being toxic to not only me but a couple of other allies.

chide da junglerOct 19, 20153 votes

As a jungler I cannot agree with the OP more. If you are behind in lane, then the rest of laning phase is about mitigating the damage to your team. One good mid/late teamfight and you'll be back in the game like nothing ever happened. If you die 4-5 more times in lane, there might be no coming back.

GreymooreOct 19, 20153 votes

I agree with this, playing it safe is the way to go if your unsure of the champions or skill match-up. There are times that enemy laners who want to snowball like Riven or Katarina will get desperate and start making mistakes in an attempt to kill you or just try to roam and get a kill somewhere else. You can use this opportunity's to gain some advantages and set them back. Of course if they roam be sure to warn your teammates through chat and pings.

kaltenashesOct 19, 20151 votes

"You dont have to win your lane, just dont feed it."

i had a game as irelia vs trynda (trynda had 30 runes of flat ad) i died once (trynda was lvl 6, and his jungler was there also). He kept pressuring top until he got to inhibitor thats when my team decided to help me...eventually my team went back to theyr lanes, trynda returned top with his jungler and we lost game...my kda was 0/2/0

AbyssphereOct 19, 20153 votes

{quoted}

"You dont have to win your lane, just dont feed it."

i had a game as irelia vs trynda (trynda had 30 runes of flat ad) i died once (trynda was lvl 6, and his jungler was there also). He kept pressuring top until he got to inhibitor thats when my team decided to help me...eventually my team went back to theyr lanes, trynda returned top with his jungler and we lost game...my kda was 0/2/0

To be fair, I'm not sure what you could really do in that situation. I can't imagine Irelia excels at dueling Trynd? It's a pity you couldn't do anything in the other lanes, but a lot of the blame for losing that game goes on your teammates.

Joe DreddOct 19, 20151 votes

Why do you people upvote the same reposted thread so damn much

High5Oct 19, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nice Henz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NEjdc9lx,comment-id=0025,timestamp=2015-10-19T18:18:38.677+0000)

Why do you people upvote the same reposted thread so damn much

Because too many people don't listen to good advice the first, second or fifth time. Riot also doesn't make this type of advice available through official tutorials, so the playerbase has to re-teach each new generation of player the same basic concepts.