Make it So Sightstone Allows You To Have 1 Extra Ward on the Map at a Time
If that sounds OP, make it so ruby sightstone does it then.
If that sounds OP, make it so ruby sightstone does it then.
Why are people so adamant on making supports the ward bitch again?
CONTRIBUTE TO THE EFFORT AND STFU.
People don't want sightstone upgraded so that supports are relied on for warding. They want it upgraded because supports are already relied on for supporting still, and buffing their items would make that easier. I'm not saying this is the way to go about it or that it needs to be done, but that's why people want this.
Because my team doesn't ward anyways. Adding just 1 extra ward to sightstone won't revert support back into a ward bitch because the limit is still crippling enough. At least 70% of the income isn't going into wards like it was in the past. Late game having just three wards is annoying because you need to place 1 on baron, so really you only have 2 wards to see where the enemy is going.
Ward the surrounding jungle offensively. This way it serves as proper warding and even without sight on baron, they MUST walk past the wards to get there. This gives you more time to catch them before they start it rather than just as they start. As most times Baron can be killed before your team can get there.
The ward at baron would be destroyed regardless, offensive wards will stay and will help chase down targets when they try to use jungle to escape after baron team fight.
Sightstone is currently only gold efficient because it lasts all game. As far as lategame goes though, having 4-5 wards you can place at a time is nice but the slot adds nothing else aside from some health. As primarily a support player, I would -love- to have an additional ward from Ruby Sightstone so that there was an actual reason to buy it aside from "well my other slots are full, I guess I better upgrade this mandatory ward generating item I have to buy to be an effective support"
Riot said they wanted to give Sightstone upgrade paths seeing how it's a "must have" just like junglers knife is. They wanted Its upgrades to be balanced so other roles can not abuse it, so we won't hear anything until they work out a way so only support will want it.
I also recall them saying they did not want warding focused on support only and that allowing more wards put down past 3 would bring back the toxic vision war where nobody ever engaged.
Made a thread about this. Having sight stone use low level items such as
so as to only give minimal bonus to said stat, but still cater to your build.
You mean junglers aren't the back up ward bitch?
mostly because all the rest of the team have full items and oracles (except adc that have the blue thing) so nobody can buy wards any more and the support only can use 3
Do you get it ? and SUPPORTS are for that reason to ward the map and to support the team
Its like saying "what do you want the top lane to be the tank bitch again?"
Some roles are in the map to do their stuff
Are you an idiot? the only people who should have
, should be the support and maybe the jungler. Top and Mid should definitely have the
and the Marksmen should have the
.
Plz don't buff Lee Sin another time this season :(
how does this buff lee? Lee doesn't benefit in any way from having an additional ward on the field, aside from the vision his team gets from it, and this isn't really a direct buff to Lee (just to junglers who build sightstone in general). It's like implying that it was somehow a Katarina buff because having more wards is more useful? Lee doesn't really care about ward cap when it comes to ward jumping.
Of course it's an indirect buff, those are some of the most problematic. Remember
before and after the initial release of cinderhulk? Went from seldom played to perma ban. Maybe you can name another, but while ss is popular in competitive, I can't think of another jg for solo que that makes nearly as much use of it as lee sin. It adds to his combat power and not just his vision control so in a game w/ less coordination it still has as much value because combat power has higher value and contribution to teammates has lower value compared to competitive (they're both still strong).
Most importantly, lee is often in places that are good to ward such as invading the enemy jungle (much more often than Kat) and having the bonus on cap number means that if he has down 3 deep wards in good position and he ward hops, the team doesn't lose vision. Yes lee ward hops a decent amount, but this buff would reduce the number of times a ward hop deleted an important ward and if you planned it out then you could deep ward 2-3 places and have your next insec or whatever just delete your previous ward hop ward. If they didn't nerf Lee and implemented this change he would be come the most dominant jungle champ in the game for competitive and would get a significant boost for solo que as well.
Hope that was a better explanation of what I meant. I wanted to be concise when I posted, but you're right that it's important to clarify this because it's not a change to his numbers.
Having an additional ward on the ground doesn't improve Lee's gameplay at all. It's like a tiny, tiny buff - not at all close to the Cinderhulk change. Cinderhulk gave Sej additional damage on her clear that, in combination with reworked numbers on her kit from previous patches, made her very strong. Lee having an additional ward would go entirely unnoticed under plat/diamond, I guarantee it. And again, what's the harm in letting someone who decides to use an item slot on a sightstone set an additional ward? Currently the item is lackluster. They could just put it on Ruby Sightstone so now it's a decision - if you really NEED that additional vision, upgrade. If not, then don't! Currently though Sightstone is just a worse version of the upgraded trinket (you don't have to return to base for your trinket, and it's cheaper) and that makes me really sad. When it was initially released it was very useful (and still is fairly useful) but it really isn't any fun to have that one spot basically feel wasted at endgame because it provides you a negligible amount of health and a warding mechanic that is now outdated by requiring you to return to base to get more wards. Even if they just made SIghtstone wards regenerate like trinket wards do, that would be a good change to the item.
I think at least in gold it would make some impact bc the extra wards would make up for some of the mechanics deficiencies you still see in gold lee sin players. However I do agree w/ you that it wouldn't be a huge impact until probably diamond (would be an impact in plat, but I'd bet in high diamond+ it would make lee pick/ban as a jungle bc the team advantage is big). Putting the upgrade on ruby would be completely balanced on lee because it would make him delay his tank items for the extra utility and he'd have to invest in something he's probably not buying currently rather than just getting free bonus strength. However, I think then it becomes almost a mandatory rush on supports and limits support itemization so rito still would be against it. That's just my 2 cents though. My mechanics are shit, so I rely on game theory/knowledge to be able to play any better than bronze, so I like to think I'm decent at these kind of guesses, but I may be very wrong. Either way I doubt we'll ever know bc I'm at least confident enough to say that regardless of the degree to which it would make lee stronger, it would impact overall game balance and itemization enough that riot isn't likely to ever make this change. (I'd love to see SS recharge like trinkets, or at least have something worth upgrading to though for sure.)
The main issue I have is that SS is mandatory on supports anyway, and it was incentivized when it came out as "this can replace that slot you leave open for wards and you don't have to pay to refill it!", and it was a very revolutionary change for supports. However, nowadays the upgraded warding totem is the same thing for 250g only... better. They need to look at support itemization again, and I'm hoping it comes in the preseason.
Yeah, that I can definitely get behind. I mean there's he whole "but ss frees up trinket to go red and control vision" argument, but support itemization just seems lack luster and way too rigid especially in lower elo. So many support games are the exact same build bc it just doesn't matter as much what you do bc you HAVE to build gold item, ss, basic boots, and prob upgraded trinket. That's not a huge gold investment, but it's big in relative terms compared to the gold potential of other roles. You can play lulu/nunu/naut/tahm/annie/shen/and probably a lot of other supports I'm forgetting in other roles and have more diverse choices in your build. You may have more choices and strategy in terms of your play as a support (god roaming timing as a support is still something I can't get right), but you have very very little choice in terms of items (especially for the first 15-20 minutes).
THey really just need to do a juggernaut level support update, just like for marksmen. I feel like if they really look at support itemization as a whole, some items will get moved around and maybe more build options will open up. It's basically either you pick a pure support bottom (Soraka,Janna, whatever) and you can make items to make your ADC stronger (Zeke's, mikael's, ardent censer if you're me) and if you're not, your build path is way more open (a lot of "non-traditional" or "mage" support picks can get away with building damage). I want a happy medium where I can both support my team and increase my own stats in a meaningful way, and I hope more items will come that do those sorts of things. Zeke's is a step in the right direction, but we need more options for different kinds of carries. Like, Kalista really doesn't benefit that much from Zeke's until later into the game, but there's not really any other item that gives her stats she needs (aside from ardent censer but the community doesn't seem to like that item much, from my recall).
Just let the sightstone regen a ward every minute or 1 min 30 secs
1st part ok.
2nd part, no. Ruby sightstone was intentionally designed to be a late-game upgrade and not be a forced rush to be able to compete in vision.
I'm actually all for this... 8 out of 10 times my teams won't ward at all, more so when I am forced to support. I wouldn't mind supporting if I could actually place down more wards... I think though it shouldn't be tied into the sight stone, make it tied directly to the starting support items that gives the support one extra ward they can place, but only a normal ward, no extra pink wards. I say this so that it can become a unique passive tied only to those who are supports. So lee sin players don't get an extra free ward, good god I can see high elos abusing the shit out of a lee sin having an extra ward he can place if the bonus ward you can place is tied only to sight stone.
Make it happen Rito
That sounds nice to me, because (on certain junglers) I could ward mid and a side lane at the same time. But I doubt this would happen anyway.
Due to being the 2nd most gold efficient item behind upgraded yellow trinket, it will likely never receive buffs, though i wish ruby sightstone had a little more incentive to buy.
I usually place the most wards and I mainly play top lane (Gnar, Wukong, Swain) and that makes me cry a bit inside.
But hey, at least I can't complain about dying to ganks.
No, I get blaimed for lack of vision enough with 3 greens and 1 pink on the map from me already, people need to start using their trinket and upgrading it, the reason supports get sight stone is usually to clear wards as well
OH NO THEY HAVE AN EXTRA WARD ON A TEAM WHERE NO ONE WARDS THEY ARE SO OP
Some players have told me otherwise, but I swear the old functionality Sightstone (before trinkets) had specific "Sightstone ward" limits
Blue Sightstone = only 2 Sightstone wards out at one time Red Sightstone = increased to 3 Sightstone wards out at one time
What if we made it so that Ruby Sightstone increased your map ward limit to 4?
that never existed.
A quick look at the wiki reveals that it did, before the trinkets were implemented.
Yes it did have that limit in the past, but there was no limit on number of wards placed on the map at that time. Essentially if the current sight stone existed then you could place all the sight stone wards, back to fill the sight stone, and then place them all again and have 8-10 wards out w/ no gold spent. It would be broken as fuck. They removed the limit I believe when they limited the number of wards a player would place.
The reason people have apparently been down voting you is bc this change to sight stone either makes the item useless or nerfs support itemization/gold income. There are 2 situations that happen if you limit SS wards to 2: 1) now instead of gold item+ss+basic boots+red trinket being rushed before a support can choose anything else you add ruby ss to that and charge the support 75 gold per 3 min between completing ss and completing ruby ss so supports have even less choice in item builds 2) ruby ss rush isn't efficient enough so supports build upgraded yellow and just buy pinks/greens/combat stats to fill in. No one has red trinket to deny vision so objectives like dragon and baron become easier to contest and everyone has to play safer.
I would like it if you could place two vision wards, and it would hold them, once upgraded
Vision is always going to be something in League of Legends that focuses more on a supporting role. Buying sightstone at all is something support players are expected to do. Updating sightstone isn't going to make supports buy it any more than they already do.
As it stands, there is no reason to buy Ruby sightstone, and no reason for it to exist. It needs to be removed or reworked.
Vision is always going to be something in League of Legends that focuses more on a supporting role.
Only as long as Riot makes people choose whether to spend the same resource on vision OR stats. That's what forces you to have some players who cripple their own champions to provide vision to everyone else. Without that, supports would still have somewhat less income than other roles, but the differences in effective power would shrink when they can spend what gold they do get on actual items.
As it stands, there is no reason to buy Ruby sightstone, and no reason for it to exist. It needs to be removed or reworked.
This part I agree with, sort of, but regular sightstone and consumable wards are actually just as unhealthy for the support role. Much like flash for most champions, having one "option" be too good makes it not an option at all, reducing the amount of meaningful choices and alternatives actually open to you.
Trinkets are a better approach to vision because they are a completely separate resource -- everyone has a trinket slot that can only be used for trinkets and doesn't conflict with anything else, and everyone gets 1 second of trinket recharge per second, regardless of whether they are a last hitting role or not. They're not completely balanced against each other, but at least you're not giving up regular items to get them.
Ruby's lackluster benefit over regular sightstone is actually good, because it means you aren't forced to complete it ASAP, so it mitigates the burden.
Why don't they just get rid of the current t3 income items and use the sightstone as part of the build path for a new t3 that has wards in it. so it makes the sightstone have combat stats but punish other lanes for trying to buy it. and allows supports to still ahve gold income all game and not waste a slot for a crappy active.
Just let Sightstone recharge wards. It's incredibly lame that my teammates can actually ward more than I can without going back.
I'm tired of people asking for sighstone to be buffed. When I see everyone in every queue throw more than 20 wards per game with either sighstone or upg trinket, we can talk about vision buffs.
When everyone effectively uses the tools they have, then the discussion about buffs can begin.
can we bring the infinite ward back pls ?
it was so fun to play supp and ward like everybush in soloqueue and carrying your whole team through vision.
(that's sarcasm but also kind of the truth... people in soloque are blind/don't ward/have no map awareness at all so being able to ward everything was a pretty good way to win)
letting u have an extar ward out would make it worth buying imho.
but the vision system is coded to limit vision per character so i dont think it is as simple as we think.
Ruby Sightstone became quite pointless after that 3 ward-limit change.
To make up for that ONE GUY who doesn't buy shit for wards.
I wonder if having a jungler with 4 Sightstones, Mobis, Sweeping Lens, Clairvoyance, and Vision Ward slot would do better than one who didn't do any warding and never bought his trinket.