Let's hope that the Aatrox rework won't bring hate just like when he got worked on some months ago

PaffWasTaken·Apr 23, 2018·4 votes·3,877 views

I remember the boards being filled for three weeks in a row by posts made by people who didn't even play him before saying that Riot "gutted him", that he was "thousand times better before", "completely impossible to play in jungle", etc etc... Let's just say that this kind of hate wasn't necessary at all and it would be cool if people could be able to wait for Riot to be able to make some adjustments to the rework (if it turns out bad), instead of screaming on the roofs that an already dead champ was killed by Riot, when the patch notes litterally said that he would be weird at first but that several buffs would follow. Aatrox is a lot more popular than before now, so please, don't let this kind of thing happen without reasons...

24 Comments

Meep ManApr 23, 20182 votes

People misinterpreted the work they did earlier as "we are buffing him", when really it was "we are changing him so that he can be buffed and not be a problem."

Teridax68Apr 23, 20182 votes

To be fair, the problem with that mini-rework was that it made Aatrox more awkward, and didn't end up making him feel that much better to play or play against, so in the end it just felt pointless, as the rework was going to be overwritten by larger work farther down the line anyway. Ideally, Aatrox's VGU should quash those fears by giving him the full treatment he deserves, though personally I have some doubts regarding the direction being taken: from what I've seen, the direction players wanted him to be taken towards was that of an inhuman warlord who pushes entire armies to bloodlust, which in gameplay should likely translate to a diver/light fighter with teamfighting utility, a unique niche in League. However, Riot's nutshell description for him in the recent roadmap was “greatsword duelist that relentlessly pursues his foes,” a description that not only is a mediocre fit for what he currently does and what players expect of him, but that also sounds far too generic when taking into account the fact that literal dozens of League's champions, especially fighters, can already be described as relentless duelists. As such, while I think Riot's VGUs have a largely excellent track record, I fear that the Aatrox we'll get may polarize the playerbase.

GayFluffyUnicornApr 23, 20182 votes

Couldn't have said it better. Also if im not mistaken didn't riot say he should end up as a juggernaut after the rework? Would be really shitty.

Teridax68Apr 23, 20182 votes

I sincerely hope the fuck not. A defining feature of juggernauts is that they generally lack tools to rapidly approach targets, especially the back line. By contrast, Aatrox has a dash that crosses over both terrain and champions, and even has unstoppability attached to it, so that completely breaks that juggernaut tenet. Additionally, juggernauts typically have lots of AoE damage, whereas Aatrox is almost completely focused on dueling single targets, and whereas juggernauts typically itemize quite defensively, Aatrox frequently builds more offensively than the average fighter. I really don't see how Aatrox could be framed as a juggernaut in any way, nor do I think he needs to be turned into one, so if that really is the direction set for his VGU... ew.

SalamencęApr 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I sincerely hope the fuck not. A defining feature of juggernauts is that they generally lack tools to rapidly approach targets, especially the back line. By contrast, Aatrox has a dash that crosses over both terrain and champions, and even has unstoppability attached to it, so that completely breaks that juggernaut tenet. Additionally, juggernauts typically have lots of AoE damage, whereas Aatrox is almost completely focused on dueling single targets, and whereas juggernauts typically itemize quite defensively, Aatrox frequently builds more offensively than the average fighter. I really don't see how Aatrox could be framed as a juggernaut in any way, nor do I think he needs to be turned into one, so if that really is the direction set for his VGU... ew.

3/4 of his abilities are AoE...just saying

Teridax68Apr 23, 20181 votes

The exact same thing can be said for Ekko, Riven and Yasuo. I guess that makes them juggernauts too, right? /s

But real talk, though, just because a champion has an ability that can hit multiple targets, doesn't mean that champion has AoE as a major strength. Aatrox's Q is meant to be especially effective only against targets in a very small area, usually just one person, his E tapers off to a point so that he generally ends up poking only one champion at a time, and his ult damage is by no means the main component to the ability. By contrast, a champion like Illaoi or Yorick can wreak havoc against multiple enemies at a time, and are specifically intended to be good against crowds. There's something to be said about the excessive amount of AoE in the game, including on champions meant to be single-target (a lot of assassins have AoE as well, for example), but there are still different degrees to the AoE different champions have.

SalamencęApr 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The exact same thing can be said for Ekko, Riven and Yasuo. I guess that makes them juggernauts too, right? /s

But real talk, though, just because a champion has an ability that can hit multiple targets, doesn't mean that champion has AoE as a major strength. Aatrox's Q is meant to be especially effective only against targets in a very small area, usually just one person, his E tapers off to a point so that he generally ends up poking only one champion at a time, and his ult damage is by no means the main component to the ability. By contrast, a champion like Illaoi or Yorick can wreak havoc against multiple enemies at a time, and are specifically intended to be good against crowds. There's something to be said about the excessive amount of AoE in the game, including on champions meant to be single-target (a lot of assassins have AoE as well, for example), but there are still different degrees to the AoE different champions have.

It seems you went ahead and assumed that I was saying Aatrox is / should be a juggernaut. That's not what I said. I simply said since 3/4 of his abilities are AoE, he does AoE damage, which is a fact. Obviously Aatrox is a basic attack focused champion. Try not to assume things in the future and then come off as super passive aggressive.

Teridax68Apr 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It seems you went ahead and assumed that I was saying Aatrox is / should be a juggernaut. That's not what I said. I simply said since 3/4 of his abilities are AoE, he does AoE damage, which is a fact. Obviously Aatrox is a basic attack focused champion. Try not to assume things in the future and then come off as super passive aggressive.

Please take note of the fact that at no point did I ever say that Aatrox did no AoE damage. I merely pointed out that Aatrox is focused on dueling targets, as opposed to inflicting heavy amounts of AoE, and I in fact did specify that juggernauts deal "lots of AoE damage", rather than just "AoE damage". Your initial reply was therefore, at best, purely tangential in relation to my own comment. It is evident that you wanted to butt in to correct me on something I wasn't even mistaken, just as it is equally clear that you are offended that I would dare criticize your non-argument. It is obvious that we are not in fact disagreeing, and that you are instead attempting to instigate pointless drama. The use of clearly-indicated sarcasm is not passive-aggression, just as my direct rebuttal to your point and its implications constitutes the exact opposite of it. If you do not want people to assume things of you, try not to drop in with ambiguous and vague comments, and if you want to criticize other people for doing something in particular, please take the time to inform yourself on whether the behavior you are invoking actually means what you think it means. As a final note, you dropping in with a remark written in a manner that tries to oppose itself to what I said, without explicitly addressing anything in particular, is passive-aggressive, so not only are you using that expression wrong, you are also projecting.

SalamencęApr 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Please take note of the fact that at no point did I ever say that Aatrox did no AoE damage. I merely pointed out that Aatrox is focused on dueling targets, as opposed to inflicting heavy amounts of AoE, and I in fact did specify that juggernauts deal "lots of AoE damage", rather than just "AoE damage". Your initial reply was therefore, at best, purely tangential in relation to my own comment. It is evident that you wanted to butt in to correct me on something I wasn't even mistaken, just as it is equally clear that you are offended that I would dare criticize your non-argument. It is obvious that we are not in fact disagreeing, and that you are instead attempting to instigate pointless drama. The use of clearly-indicated sarcasm is not passive-aggression, just as my direct rebuttal to your point and its implications constitutes the exact opposite of it. If you do not want people to assume things of you, try not to drop in with ambiguous and vague comments, and if you want to criticize other people for doing something in particular, please take the time to inform yourself on whether the behavior you are invoking actually means what you think it means. As a final note, you dropping in with a remark written in a manner that tries to oppose itself to what I said, without explicitly addressing anything in particular, is passive-aggressive, so not only are you using that expression wrong, you are also projecting.

All I did was point out that Aatrox has multiple AoE abilties. I'm not sure how that is instigating pointless drama, but take it as you please. There was no attempt at correcting you either, I was simply stating a fact. Example: the sun is hot. That is stating a fact, which is all I did.

Teridax68Apr 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

All I did was point out that Aatrox has multiple AoE abilties. I'm not sure how that is instigating pointless drama, but take it as you please. There was no attempt at correcting you either, I was simply stating a fact. Example: the sun is hot. That is stating a fact, which is all I did.

Sure, but one does not go directly replying to other people just to give out irrelevant trivia. Even if you really did just innocently reply to tell me that water is wet, that would still be a needless call for my attention, as your reply is noted in my inbox for me to view on my next visit. However, the fact that you specifically talked about Aatrox, when that was the subject of my own comment, and framed it as an interjection, as noted by your usage of the expression "... just saying", does point out that you did intend to place your own comment in opposition to mine, as if offering a correction, or at the least a different opinion. If it looks like I'm laboring the point, it's because I am, as you are rather transparently playing coy after messing up, and I want to make absolutely sure there is no wiggle room in this exchange. You made a mistake, and your attempts at saving face are only making it worse. I would advise you to stop.

SalamencęApr 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Sure, but one does not go directly replying to other people just to give out irrelevant trivia. Even if you really did just innocently reply to tell me that water is wet, that would still be a needless call for my attention, as your reply is noted in my inbox for me to view on my next visit. However, the fact that you specifically talked about Aatrox, when that was the subject of my own comment, and framed it as an interjection, as noted by your usage of the expression "... just saying", does point out that you did intend to place your own comment in opposition to mine, as if offering a correction, or at the least a different opinion. If it looks like I'm laboring the point, it's because I am, as you are rather transparently playing coy after messing up, and I want to make absolutely sure there is no wiggle room in this exchange. You made a mistake, and your attempts at saving face are only making it worse. I would advise you to stop.

OOF you got me...I guess. I love going on to league of legends forums to seek attention, it's quite a hobby of mine. I really don't care as much as you seem to so I would rather end this now. Enjoy Aatrox when he's reworked!

Z3SleeperApr 24, 20182 votes

Hm... This just made me think it'd be cool to have a melee champ that actually hits all enemies in melee range with the arc of his swings.

Aatrox ult extension sounds perfect for this. Proc W on multiple targets (balanced accordingly ofc).

Teridax68Apr 24, 20181 votes

I'd love that. In general, I think there's plenty more interesting things that can be done to autoattacks, instead of just having them all directly apply single-target damage, and having an AoE autoattack could be a good fit for quite a few champions. On Aatrox, it could definitely allow him to teamfight better, and on his ult could definitely allow him to transition from duelist mode to teamfighting mode, without necessarily increasing his single-target damage. It's surprising that, despite all of the rampaging fighters in League, so many of them are still focused on single-target damage and attacks, when they really could have the potential to carve through multiple opponents at once.

Big LincolnApr 23, 20181 votes

only a handful of juggernauts are not single target duelists

Death by GlamourApr 23, 20181 votes

I hate to be the one tgat has to say this

But why is he being prioritised over champs like nunu and trynd who have extremely dated kits or diana who has an identity crisis.

Sure he isnt and likely will never be a top pick but atleast his current kit does its job of its a bit wonky

InfernapeApr 23, 20182 votes

Nunu is already confirmed to be the next VGU after Akali, Trynd is meant to be in the group of tier 1 champions for a VGU, and Diana just needs a Xin level gameplay update to put her in the diver class rather than assassin.

Aatrox is basically getting a small VGU. He doesn't require intensive changes like Trynd and was meant to get his update ages ago but Riot kept delaying and shelving it.

DesolationKaizerApr 23, 20181 votes

It's not a small vgu. It's the largest gameplay update to date according to them. Think Fiora's update with a small update to his model, but a massive, massive update to his actual gameplay.

Big LincolnApr 23, 20181 votes

make the rework good this time and people won't hate it

funny how that works, shame riot reworks are rarely good

GayFluffyUnicornApr 23, 20181 votes

^ Maybe it's just me but it really feels like riot doesn't put much effort into the low playrate champs to be still satisfying for the mains after the rework. Compared to like irelia.

NemeBroApr 23, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NEKvp9LB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-23T14:00:29.612+0000)

make the rework good this time and people won't hate it

funny how that works, shame riot reworks are rarely good

His rework was good. It significantly improved his gameplay, gave him moments of power to play around in lane, and he is currently a more viable pick than he probably ever has been.

MorganFreemanBotApr 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

His rework was good. It significantly improved his gameplay, gave him moments of power to play around in lane, and he is currently a more viable pick than he probably ever has been.

After release, Aatrox spent a decent amount of time as pick / ban at the pro level because of how powerful he was.

After a hefty round of nerfs, he was still basically pick / ban at the pro level for several more patches.

Riot basically had to Olaf him in order to get him out of the pro scene, which was a state he was left to languish in until his mini rework. This is because his entire concept - a fighter who buffed his own AA speed and provided massive amounts of self healing, with a revive passive to boot - was unserviceable without noticeable changes to his kit.

DW DianaApr 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I remember the boards being filled for three weeks in a row by posts made by people who didn't even play him before saying that Riot "gutted him", that he was "thousand times better before", "completely impossible to play in jungle", etc etc... Let's just say that this kind of hate wasn't necessary at all and it would be cool if people could be able to wait for Riot to be able to make some adjustments to the rework (if it turns out bad), instead of screaming on the roofs that an already dead champ was killed by Riot, when the patch notes litterally said that he would be weird at first but that several buffs would follow. Aatrox is a lot more popular than before now, so please, don't let this kind of thing happen without reasons...

I played "Old Aatrox" when he was viable in jungle only, and tbh the mini rework did hit him hard (which is saying something for a champion few people knew existed anymore!), however if you look in the following patch the changed his bloodwell to reset off jungle minions and that allowed him to be almost as viable as before. Only since runes reforged did aatrox really start to shine again and I for one am VERY worried about the potential repeat performance of a bad rework on him, but given the work they did on irelia and swain, plus the fact they had about twice as much time to get the job done, I can't say I've not got my hopes up lol. The original mini-rework DID need looking at and I'm glad riot actually did so.

C9 Squeeky Apr 23, 20181 votes

That wasn't a real VGU

SasogwaApr 24, 20181 votes

To be honest, Aatrox is quite enjoyable to play right now. His kit feels kind of good. The only moment it doesn't is when you face a ranged champion with bullshit amounts of mobility and damage; but that's more of a problem with the unhealthy kit of that champion than Aatrox's. But it's kinda true that it doesn't really fulfill that much the fantasy of the Darkin Lord that makes everyone bloodthirsty. An old Sion kind of ult could basically do the trick tbh.