So bot lane is now diverse enough to have different champs now. Can we buff marksman in other lanes?

{quoted}

crit does not need buffs the reason crit adcs suck right now is because riot kneecaped their laning phase through sustain nerf+armor and ad nerf

they need buff in early game, i suggest to nerf zeal items bonus movement speed and buff base movement speed

Well, technically... their items are a joke gold-value wise right now. They overcap with 120% crit chance (20% worth of crit gone to the trashcan) and on top of that crit is made way more expensive.

I think it's better to more diversity to improve the role then shut it down. Lucian mid may have been strong back then, but things change. Every patch changes the game. I don't think Riot would think that way just because Lucian Mid, even Riot can change their opinion from the past.

{quoted}

Remember what happened to Lucian when he was played Mid? Nerfed into the ground for months.

Rito clearly DON'T want botlane marksman (this exclude Kindred/Corky/Quinn) to be viable on other lanes.

Maybe, now that they are at it, they should nerf for Junglers too. We need diversity in jungling summoners spells and that one has been dominant since god knows when.

Well I don't know others, but I never really talked about role until now. I think diversity for marksman can be healthy for the game and improve the role. Also that's pretty rude calling the entire boards indecisive toddlers.

Make up your minds, people! You tell Riot what to buff/nerf and they do, and then you complain because something else is unbalanced as a result of that.

Pretty sure that OP is a single person with an opinion, not a hive mind.

Otherwise, you told Riot what to buff/nerf, and then complained that something else is unbalanced, which would then make you a hypocrite and also us and me and you because you're part of the hive mind known as the Boards.

I do agree as they are a strong archetype but not the strongest, They are the most snowball reliant role in the game and requires protected majority of the time. The latest patch I think did show how weak they are, considering other champions other than marksman can do well or even better than some most marksman. It shows how 1 dimensional the role and how the role can never be self-reliant. So in my opinion, even with longer games, the role is flawed and improving it's diversity in other lanes can make the game more fun in a lot of aspects. Games where we can have interesting team compositions than can give more life to the game.

I wish people would stop putting bot lane in a bubble when citing "diversity". Making bot lane "more diverse" by gutting a class makes the overall game less diverse, because instead of seeing more different champs in the different lanes you see more of the SAME champs in EVERY lane.

My main focus were the marksman that were hit the most, such as the crit ones and the ones you mention I excluded them cause they're marksman that doesn't rely on crit. I was excluding outliers like them so we can help the other marksman. Yes the whole diversity came in cause how marksman became weak, but that was my point within this post. We saw how weak they became over the change made to them, which also showed how flawed the role is. It showed how a change can affect the game entirely cause they made this role like OmegaNITRO said bot lane is a bubble. Giving more possibilities can make them go other lanes and if done right a equal choice for bot lane as well. I'm not into over tuning them but make them viable enough can we can have duo mage bot vs a standard bot(support and marksman) on equal footing. Or possible to have Marksman mid while a mage can be both. Diversity that came into this patch showed us many things wrong with this role in my opinion. Opening them to possibilities while not over-tuning them can help keep the diversity while making them a viable pick.

Still better than ADC being mandatory and basically win condition. Now game can revolve around any lane or character. Though yea. Some tweaks would be welcome. (like removal of particular keystones)

that could work as well

Nice insight. I major thought was mostly make them more viable in other lanes but not be dominant in that lane, but to at least survive and not be super punished in that lane. It's the major reason why I was mostly focus in the defensive stats than their damage. So in turn it would make them slightly better at bot again, but as the current meta they won't be a must have for bot lane. Making them an option will they're are viable options at bot lane other than marksman. While they are the most efficient duo carries, I think this patch also showed how flawed that concept can be. I understand the risk of the marksman may be too strong to lane alone, but it's also the reason why I wanted to buff they're defensive stats only vs they're damage. It's also why I wanted to rework the marksman items, make them itemization friendly but not too strong in damage numbers. Hence my train of thought was focused on they get their damage of items. If buffs done right, I think they can a stable glass cannon carry at bot or a viable mid laner. But thanks for your comment and insight. Really Thanks!!

{quoted}

Wait what? The reason why other champs can go bot is because adcs got nerfed in the first place. Buffing them up would push other champs from bot and once more bot will become an adc+supp lane.

They can be balanced to be viable in jungle too...