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What do the 8.10 Jungle Changes Mean?

ForFoxSakes··5 votes·11,002 views

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-810-notes

Some thoughts:

  1. Red/Blue buff monsters give 115 exp plus the bonus 50 w jg item = 165. Junglers no longer hit level 2 with the first camp? That'll really screw over some junglers who need another ability to help clear their 2nd camp. Also no more buff then gank ez or twitch jgs.

  2. Common path before was buff->wolves->buff->gank/invade at level 3. Now champs wont be level 3 and at no point in the game will they ever be on par with solo laners... so it'll force junglers to do buff wolves buff scuttle to level 3 to fight? Or buff, wolves/raptors then scuttle before 2nd buff?

  3. Midlaners should be the ones ganking jungle now. Having a level up at the level 3 spike, ward enemy top side then faster clearing jg and harder shoving mid can go invade the opposing level 2 jungler :(

  4. Sustain will be atrocious for a lot of junglers when they cant be level 2 for their 2nd camp or level 3 for their 4th camp. Likely push tank junglers out even more

  5. Graves, xin, ww will become even stronger with their sustain and healthy clears

  6. Small buff to top side jungle clear who can go blue-gromp-scuttle whereas bottom cannot as easily go red-raptors-scuttle. Raptors at level 1 is suicide for most junglers except Olaf. Scuttle giving as much exp as a buff camp while giving sustain should be hotly contested on first clear

  7. Also due to scuttle being such a high priority, early duelist junglers will reign supreme, again pushing out utility & tank junglers

  8. Raptor start may be a thing again since it gives 56+50+19*6 = 220 exp, enough for level 2 i think?

60 Comments

SwiftKitten8810 votes

all of which ruin jungle diversity, make the OP junglers like Warwick even worse. and completly fuck up the jungle for zero reason becuase the laners cant be bothered to place a fucking ward and play safe for the 30 seconds before they hit lvl 3...

Jaygo412 votes

This change was driven strictly by top laners that die to 3:00 ganks like CLOCKWORK. If yall bothered to ward, wouldn't be an issue. But it is.

BEK Makadur1 votes

{quoted}

This change was driven strictly by top laners that die to 3:00 ganks like CLOCKWORK. If yall bothered to ward, wouldn't be an issue. But it is.

Warding can not always protect u from a gank, especially if the enemy laner has cc. It is just bullshit that alane can be decided by the jungler in the first 5 minutes.

Hügö1 votes

When this happens the lane is decided by your retardness. "Oh it's min 3 the enemy jungler jsut got his top buff ... i now should push my lane to the enemy" lel.

BEK Makadur1 votes

Could be, but it still sucks to feel more pressured by the jungler than from your own lane opponent.

Profirix7 votes

All that will happen is that the junglers with innate high damage will clear faster, get a level advantage, and then will be able to bully their opponent off of the scuttle crab thus securing an early lead. Expect Lee Sin, Xin Zhao, Kha'zix, Trundle to dominate the jungle meta even moreso than usual.

It is likely that junglers without any kind of sustain will really struggle after this update. They will not be able to clear even one side without having to back. Against a good jungler opponent who chooses to play the meta, they will capitalize on the need for their opponent to back and make it so you are permanently behind.

ValiantKiller2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tongue in Cheek,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NAAUarJJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-15T20:01:48.798+0000)

All that will happen is that the junglers with innate high damage will clear faster, get a level advantage, and then will be able to bully their opponent off of the scuttle crab thus securing an early lead. Expect Lee Sin, Xin Zhao, Kha'zix, Trundle to dominate the jungle meta even moreso than usual.

It is likely that junglers without any kind of sustain will really struggle after this update. They will not be able to clear even one side without having to back. Against a good jungler opponent who chooses to play the meta, they will capitalize on the need for their opponent to back and make it so you are permanently behind.

JarvanIV MonkeyKing Kayn rip to this type of champions to be honest.

And bye bye Twitch annoying ganks, Warwick XinZhao Nunu Shaco Udyr miss me ? Cause you will see more of me.

Pokemonred2001 votes

Twitch wouldn't be killed off; he tends to cheese gank at level 2 anyway.

But I'm not gonna be too fond of seeing more Warwick and Xin. Not. At. All.

ValiantKiller2 votes

{quoted}

Twitch wouldn't be killed off; he tends to cheese gank at level 2 anyway.

But I'm not gonna be too fond of seeing more Warwick and Xin. Not. At. All.

Remember the blue or red buff won't give you level 2 anymore, that mean twitch won't be able to gank unless he level2 which mean he need to clear a second camp by himself which give you time to get levels and make him weaker since he would use pots or would have a low hp if did clear wrong.

And trust me, you will see more of this champions cause now nothing can clear at level1 like them.

Pokemonred2001 votes

On PBE at least, you still do get level 2 for the buff camp; this can be seen when you watch the Pyke jungle clear video in another post, which would be for patch 8.11. (link to the video by stonewall008 video here: https://youtu.be/hSQapCi7_ZY?t=45).

If the PBE clears are any sign, he'll still be able to do his cheese level 2 gank, but he'll have practically nothing to fall back on if he fails it, which would put him in a worse spot. We'll have to see after the changes happen, though.

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

On PBE at least, you still do get level 2 for the buff camp; this can be seen when you watch the Pyke jungle clear video in another post, which would be for patch 8.11. (link to the video by stonewall008 video here: https://youtu.be/hSQapCi7_ZY?t=45).

If the PBE clears are any sign, he'll still be able to do his cheese level 2 gank, but he'll have practically nothing to fall back on if he fails it, which would put him in a worse spot. We'll have to see after the changes happen, though.

Well 180exp to 115 exp, thought would make difference cause mostly when you clear buff right now for first time you get level 2 exp roughly.

ForFoxSakes1 votes

I think J4 will be seen since he can gank at level 2. His level 3 doesnt really add a whole lot for ganks. Kayn has enough damage with Q to clear 2nd camp raptors or wolves decently without needing level 2 right away so IMO he should be fine too. Monkey is dead

Shaco gank timing will be pushed back since he'll need to clear 2 camps to get to 2, then 4 camps to 3. Not sure he'll be seen that much with shitty clears

Udyr I can see more of. Forgot about that guy

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

I think J4 will be seen since he can gank at level 2. His level 3 doesnt really add a whole lot for ganks. Kayn has enough damage with Q to clear 2nd camp raptors or wolves decently without needing level 2 right away so IMO he should be fine too. Monkey is dead

Shaco gank timing will be pushed back since he'll need to clear 2 camps to get to 2, then 4 camps to 3. Not sure he'll be seen that much with shitty clears

Udyr I can see more of. Forgot about that guy

Problem is with j4 he will need to clear a camp on his own when he still level1 which mean he will pretty much won't have much hp to gank after he hit level2, i can't tell you how many times i saw j4 die in jg when they are level2 and clearing their 3rd camp. And yes sadly the monkey which is my main going to die now -.-

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

This won't change anysh*t for MonkeyKing. He's already bad, but Wukong mains will make him work somehow... as usual.

Kayn has a fast clear.

Feel Apathy1 votes

{quoted}

JarvanIV MonkeyKing Kayn rip to this type of champions to be honest.

And bye bye Twitch annoying ganks, Warwick XinZhao Nunu Shaco Udyr miss me ? Cause you will see more of me.

Twitch sits on mid-lane for the duration of his red buff regardless. So that doesn't change him all that much, if he gets a kill. he will STILL ruin the whole game for everyone.

ForFoxSakes2 votes

Lee got indirectly nerfed with the removal of jg ward item and also cannot get support item now. He can clear decently and still gank early, but needing to clear 4 camps before hitting 3 will set him back, especially when he can't gank a solo laner at an even level. I'm guessing solo laners will be 4 when junglers now hit 3 from the slower clear (less abilities and stats on 2nd camp) so his kill power wont be as scary as before.

Trundle isnt the fastest at clearing especially multi monster camps but sustain will help. Dont think he'll be top either due to slow clearing

Khazix I think will be heavily hurt as well. He won't have his spikes to clear the 2nd camp (aka kill his AoE and sustain) which will probably force him to go buff to buff, or buff, gromp scuttle while needing both potion charges

BEK Makadur2 votes

Most improtantly it will make my toplane be more of a 1v1 than a 1v2/2v2.

BestPudgeNA1 votes

{quoted}

Most improtantly it will make my toplane be more of a 1v1 than a 1v2/2v2.

Actually it means i'm picking Xin every game and ganking you at level 2 with Red and Phase.

BEK Makadur1 votes

DOtA player? :)

Before the jgl where lvl3 and the laner lvl 2, this shouldn´t happen anymore. Also i doubt that that will be the most common playstyle :)

BestPudgeNA1 votes

{quoted}

DOtA player? :)

Before the jgl where lvl3 and the laner lvl 2, this shouldn´t happen anymore. Also i doubt that that will be the most common playstyle :)

You can still reach 3 and gank the level 2 top laner, same for bot obviously, even mid lane sometimes depending on how the wave it. just less Junglers can do it and it will occur about 10 seconds later. I can still take red and walk to lane and fight you level 2 vs 1 before the first wave is even cleared. Xin with phase and red will still be able to kill you like this. 3 Camp gank hasn't been the most common playstyle outside of bronze for like 6 months. 4 Camp then gank or level 2 ganks have been better for a long time because they're much less predictable. These changes are ultimately gonna make these type of ganks happen more often because the Farm to 6 and press R Junglers are gonna fall out of the meta since they won't have crab control.

VeganScout1 votes

Are you implying mid game junglers will be better ? Like idk, zac ?

SwiftKitten882 votes

{quoted}

Are you implying mid game junglers will be better ? Like idk, zac ?

zac might be better because other jungler are getting fucked so bad and his passive allows enough time for his laner to come to the rescue after he dies.

but champs like Warwick are going to be broken as fuck

ForFoxSakes1 votes

Zac could be ok since he can clear his 2nd camp decently with W open to clear wolves or raptors but his dueling power will be crap when fighting the other jungler for scuttle. I really believe invading and fighting the other jungler will be a top priority even over ganking now since taking both scuttles will be such a huge benefit for levels

big boi edri1 votes

First buff still gives level 2

2:50 Level 3 going Buff-Krugs-Scuttle on MonkeyKing

Graves Warwick XinZhao still going to get a lot stronger.

Off meta junglers were at a bit of a disadvantage before, Riot just completely fucked them all now .

Also get ready to rely on your mid and bot having map awareness low elo. If they didn't see you coming for a gank before, they're about to trash your entire jungle experience now.

ValiantKiller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Härd Stuck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NAAUarJJ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-05-15T22:08:21.803+0000)

First buff still gives level 2

2:50 Level 3 going Buff-Krugs-Scuttle on MonkeyKing

Graves Warwick XinZhao still going to get a lot stronger.

Off meta junglers were at a bit of a disadvantage before, Riot just completely fucked them all now .

Also get ready to rely on your mid and bot having map awareness low elo. If they didn't see you coming for a gank before, they're about to trash your entire jungle experience now.

But 112 exp or whatever the exp come from buff is enough for level2 ? No way.

big boi edri1 votes

Tested in PBE and Riot Maple confirmed this on Reddit. Was a typo in patch notes (or rather they left the line out saying first buff still gives level 2).

ValiantKiller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Härd Stuck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NAAUarJJ,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2018-05-15T22:39:54.446+0000)

Tested in PBE and Riot Maple confirmed this on Reddit. Was a typo in patch notes

So the only difference is the level3 ? but then how that delay ganks ? Ww and xin can gank from lvl2 easily

big boi edri1 votes

Ww and xin and graves are all really fucking strong in 8.10.

Going for level 3 they are delayed 15 seconds roughly.

ValiantKiller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Härd Stuck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NAAUarJJ,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-15T22:49:18.280+0000)

Ww and xin and graves are all really fucking strong in 8.10.

Great news, time to quit game cause i can't play my main now which is wukong, thank you riot.

big boi edri1 votes

Graves already fucked you before this and you should be banning him.

Warwick you can work around to some extent, but either way you'll need help from your laners to secure scuttle.

Xin is less common in my experience so I just roll the dice and hope he isn't picked, if he is play it for the mid game and try to counter gank/work around him as best as possible with good warding.

Also you are gonna have to stop taking Dark Harvest, the damage from electrocute is going to be mandatory for early skirmishes.

Another fun fact, did you knowitem 3814 costs less and does more damage than item 3078 on Wu ?

ValiantKiller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Härd Stuck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NAAUarJJ,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-15T22:58:58.295+0000)

Graves already fucked you before this and you should be banning him.

Warwick you can work around to some extent, but either way you'll need help from your laners to secure scuttle.

Xin is less common in my experience so I just roll the dice and hope he isn't picked.

Graves buffs wasn't needed and still they not planning on nerfing him ,so whatever this game balance team can't find balance and i don't want to be a meta slave just for few wins, i want to have fun and win but screw that. Like my two mains are rekt and i like them yet i can't do anything cause balance team keep doing things without thinking, and yes my mains are urgot and wukong so good for me to pick the worst of all.

big boi edri1 votes

Wu will still be as good as he was (if good is the word you'd use, lol).

Don't forget the item 3508 item 3036 changes. Total armor % pen equates to roughly 30 pen on a squishy. Mana regen and higher AD w/ CDR should trump item 3071 /item 3078 as the new go to CDR item for Wu.

There are some perks coming in 8.11 for him, I'd hold out a bit.

ForFoxSakes1 votes

Graves buff was mostly to his ult which doesnt apply for the first clear and skirmish.

Lucky for me though: https://imgur.com/Qk7XW3M Khazix should be M7 too but stupid BE costs now

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

Graves buff was mostly to his ult which doesnt apply for the first clear and skirmish.

Lucky for me though: https://imgur.com/Qk7XW3M Khazix should be M7 too but stupid BE costs now

But what him op not his ult, but the hp growth per level.

ForFoxSakes1 votes

Which champs even use dark harvest anymore? Most are taking celerity and water walking, both of which will be even more desired when scuttle buffs are live since youre fighting in the river with higher base speed and damage from it.

Xin is super strong not only because of healthy clears but very few junglers can 1v1 him especially with no items and both level 3, Xin will have attack speed and damage steroids, auto reset, knockup and slow :O

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

Which champs even use dark harvest anymore? Most are taking celerity and water walking, both of which will be even more desired when scuttle buffs are live since youre fighting in the river with higher base speed and damage from it.

Xin is super strong not only because of healthy clears but very few junglers can 1v1 him especially with no items and both level 3, Xin will have attack speed and damage steroids, auto reset, knockup and slow :O

That is my point and imagine you playing weak early champion, you forced to 1v1 him due to his better clear and taking over crabs easily.

big boi edri1 votes

Nobody is really taking Dark Harvest, he probably uses it because in Silver the games tend to last longer and it gives a stronger late game carry potential. The electrocute proc however gives far more early-mid game power, especially on ganks and invades which in turn makes snowballing easier on a snowball champ. I noted it for him because after looking at his match history I noticed he mained Wukong like myself.

And yes, against champions like Xin, help from the other lanes will be mandatory in trying to secure scuttle. In most scenarios, I'm fairly certain scuttle won't be a 1v1 scenario. At the least it'll be a 2v1 and at the most it'll be a 4v4. Hell may even turn into a 5v5 battling over scuttle drag side with an infernal up.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Red buff actually gives level 2 for some reason. I don't know why.

ValiantKiller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NAAUarJJ,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-05-16T08:16:13.273+0000)

Red buff actually gives level 2 for some reason. I don't know why.

Then blue should, both give same exp lol.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Yeah, but level 2 XP is 180, when they said in patch notes it grants 110. I don't know if it's bugged or patch notes fucked up.

ValiantKiller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NAAUarJJ,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2018-05-16T14:01:40.594+0000)

Yeah, but level 2 XP is 180, when they said in patch notes it grants 110. I don't know if it's bugged or patch notes fucked up.

I was wonder the same, like you get 50bonus exp from jg items + 115 = 165exp as the post say, so how does both buffs give you level2 ?

Snowman Arc1 votes

No idea.

BestPudgeNA1 votes

{quoted}

I was wonder the same, like you get 50bonus exp from jg items + 115 = 165exp as the post say, so how does both buffs give you level2 ?

Because jungle camps spawn at the avg level of players in the game+1. Meaning there is no such thing and a level 1 Red Brambleback, he starts at level 2 in normal summoners rift games.

Snowman Arc1 votes

I'm pretty sure it's level 1 when it spawns.

Kàtárìnã1 votes

the jungle item changes gives you "Extra" bonus xp for your first large monster kill, so the buffs will still give you level 2.

BEK Makadur1 votes

So actually you won´t hit lvl 3 from scuttle. Best change in years.

BestPudgeNA1 votes

{quoted}

So actually you won´t hit lvl 3 from scuttle. Best change in years.

You never hit 3 from Scuttle. Only the RNG Baron Scuttle that lasted half a day on PBE before riots changes got downvoted so much that they took away the ability to downvote Dev corner OPs LEL

Kàtárìnã1 votes

this is going to make junglers far MORE aggro imo. why farm when your gains are shit? you can go from lane to lane fucking up the game for everybody THEN do your camps. shaco is going to be a god.

BEK Makadur1 votes

Because u will be behind with your level and can´t gank that powerful.

Kàtárìnã1 votes

your laners will have no sums and die 1v2 because u chose to farm instead of gank early then farm.

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