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@Meddler: Do you think Zed could stand to lose some of his base health regeneration?

darkdill··12 votes·696 views

Zed right now sits at 7.1 base health regen at level 1. Considering he's an AD assassin who frequently rushes a Bilgewater Cutlass, that makes him feel kinda oppressive against poke mages like Lux, Karma, Orianna, etc. If you want to deal real damage to him in lane, you have to get into his ultimate's range, which tends to result in him deleting you. If you keep too much distance, though, he'll sustain himself through all your poke, and you'll run out of mana before you can seriously threaten him.

I know Zed gets shut down really easily by Zhonya's or QSS, but before that point he's REALLY obnoxious. Manaless, harass-capable, very evasive, and very good at farm control. He should be paying for that a little more, don't you think?

Thinking on "levers of balance" for Zed, reducing his base health regen seems like a safe choice to lower his lane bully power without lowering his killing power. It'd be the same story as with Katarina's last nerf; damage sticks to her more if she doesn't evade it.

17 Comments

Original Quitter5 votes

That's what they did to Riven, there is a lot of precedence for this kind of change.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

I don't understand why zed gets higher than average base health, base armor, base MR, base health regen, scaling armor, scaling MR, and scaling health regen, all while being a manaless assassin. If he is an assassin nerf his safety, if he is a split pushing bruiser nerf his damage, and either way buff the other to give him a solid identity.

IcyPepper1 votes

I believe assassins get higher base defenses but lower base damage, and tanks are the opposite due to what they're going to build. Like Nautilus starts with three more base AD but has barely lower armor scaling and base health.

It's just by a low amount, and offset by runes and masteries anyway.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

I might agree but he also has better than average scaling values too. Itemization aside zed is almost all around tankier than tanks and that doesn't seem right for an assassin. These differences might be by a low amount, but zed gets runes and masteries as well, and he can in principle (not advocating just speculating) build tanky items and become an AD bruiser. Build path is entirely up to the player here so in keeping with the champions identity it only makes sense that if zed is to be an assassin, he actually be given squishy base stats as a price to pay for his mobility, damage, and waveclear.

Mooing Kev2 votes

Zed is a 1v1 dueler split pushing assassin. He aint no brusier since he can't take extended blows he relies on his shadows to swap around to avoid taking hits. On the other hand I really don't see the point in hp regen nerfs for any champs. 2-3 less hp regen really makes no difference.

darkdill2 votes

Lowered health regeneration does make a big difference in the early game. Just ask Katarina, Riven, or Rengar.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Zed gets higher than average base health, base armor, base MR, base health regen, scaling armor, scaling MR, and scaling health regen, all while being a manaless assassin. Why?

Also... even a little health regen can be a big deal.

IcyPepper2 votes

What if his ult's rage was barely past melee, forcing him to use his shadow offensive for the final blow rather than an escape afterwards?

darkdill4 votes

Let's not weaken his kill power, and instead just exemplify a weakness on him.

IcyPepper3 votes

Fair point.

Rinky Dinky2 votes

Can we stop crying about assassins now.

They REALLY dont need anymore nerfs.

TotalJerk1 votes

You said yourself he rushed lifesteal. A regen nerf would hardly hurt him.

darkdill3 votes

A nerf is a nerf. Low HP regen really hurts Riven, even once she rushes her lifesteal. Poke will still force her to be careful, since she could get killed before she can lifesteal back the damage she took.

It'd be the same case for Zed. Poke him enough and he might not risk trying to lifesteal because you could kill him. It might be even worse for Zed, actually, because he has no shield.

IcyPepper2 votes

Going off that, using lifesteal to offset poke and reduce life regen would force him to push the wave more than before, putting him at risk. Risk is something Zed lacks, and this might help make him vulnerable without outright breaking him.

darkdill2 votes

Exactly what I'm looking for. If Zed wants to keep his health up, he'll have to ham on lifesteal, which means pushing too hard.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

It totally didnt hurt riven

oh wait

Mooing Kev1 votes

Nope a little hp regen is not a big deal period . It's like using or not using Feast mastery which gives you 3 hp every last hit. And who complains about assassins in this tank meta where tanks with cinderbulk and some hp can 1v1 almost anyone(ahem sej). People complaining about zeds early laning don't seem to be concerned about darius, in fact they want a buff for his late game. Zed is pretty much the same: oppressive early mid game, lackluster late game due to item counters and a kit that allows him better off split pushing. Darius has a beast pre 6 post 6 but falls off as the game progresses as well. Sure zed is still better than darius but both follow the same strength pattern through out the game.

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