What counterplay do we have against vayne when we can't buy pinkwards late game?

MunchCrunchLunch·Oct 5, 2016·4 votes·457 views

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especially after Q buffs. the Q auto one shot. good fucking luck assassinating a vayne late game.

20 Comments

LoLKiruOct 5, 20162 votes

I think people are jumping the gun a little bit, we should at the very least see what they have in mind for invisibility in general in terms of new counterplay.

Remember that everyone's recommendation for teamfights when dealing with say, Talon is to instantly drop a pink and then delete him because he has no defenses beyond his stealth; you could literally invalidate Talon's ability to do anything in a teamfight, with 75 gold.

Vayne is probably the one im most afraid of tbh, since when she pops Final Hour it becomes a battle of life and death, whoever tags the other first will win for sure, so you NEED to be able to react quickly, they need to have sufficient counterplay to still allow you to catch a stealth user somewhat quickly, perhaps by being observant to fine details (Footprints or something? I don't know lol)

AstôlfoOct 5, 20161 votes

Invisibility is only untargetability, not invulnerability. Sweepers/trinkets still reveal her outline, aka, skillshots/AoEs can hit her. Also, items like Frost Queen's Claim do exist.

She's also the epitome of a lategame hypercarry. If it got to the point where even the support is full build and you still haven't managed to end it, you'd have a tough time whether or not you had pinks by the nature of her just melting almost anyone.

MunchCrunchLunchOct 5, 20161 votes

we cant make a champion artificially stronger and call it "hypercarrying" by removing our way to counterplay her.

AstôlfoOct 5, 20161 votes

Or you could just CC her and kill her in about a second flat once she does appear or before she even uses her ultimate if you see her trying to flank or sneak ahead in the first place?

LoLKiruOct 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Or you could just CC her and kill her in about a second flat once she does appear or before she even uses her ultimate if you see her trying to flank or sneak ahead in the first place?

The issue with that, is by the time she reappears; you're too late already (since her first action to even cause her to reappear, will likely be condemning you into something nearby, and finishing you during the stun).

I think people are jumping the gun here a bit, but whatever counterplay they add needs to be pretty concise, most people who are stealth users (vayne especially) can delete you in a mere moment, so its important to be able to locate them quickly.

AstôlfoOct 5, 20161 votes

You shouldn't be 1v1ing her in the first place and expecting to win when she's one of the best 1v1 duelists in the game, especially at her strongest point in the game. If she used her Condemn on you when you were still surrounded by your team, that literally just saves you.

LoLKiruOct 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You shouldn't be 1v1ing her in the first place and expecting to win when she's one of the best 1v1 duelists in the game, especially at her strongest point in the game. If she used her Condemn on you when you were still surrounded by your team, that literally just saves you.

Terrible example but, can she not just kill you even in a teamfight? Vayne only needs 2 or 3 autos lategame to kill any squishier target, being able to do that and then disappearing with no way to quickly reveal her is a pretty terrifying concept.

Honestly my biggest worry would be her transitioning into some kind of hybrid ADC - Assassin where she just stealths, condemns you into a wall and just deletes one person in 1 or 2 autos, even at the cost of her life.

AstôlfoOct 5, 20161 votes

I guess, but her range is fairly short and even if she does manage to kill the target, her needing to hit what's presumably a backline target would mean she'd need to go in fairly close.

But I see your points.

RivuoOct 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Or you could just CC her and kill her in about a second flat once she does appear or before she even uses her ultimate if you see her trying to flank or sneak ahead in the first place?

As much as i agree with your other statements i disagree with this one.

If adcs were that ''easily'' killed then there wouldnt be any adcs.

So saying ''just cc her and kill her when she appears'' is pretty ignorant.

AstôlfoOct 5, 20161 votes

Fair enough. What I was trying to say is, her only hopes of dodging CC are her Q and stealth. If she gets around it, she's very strong. But if she gets hit by it, she'll die so fast even a minion would probably have taken longer to kill. But then again, that's sort of obvious and not too helpful I guess.

My bad.

RivuoOct 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Fair enough. What I was trying to say is, her only hopes of dodging CC are her Q and stealth. If she gets around it, she's very strong. But if she gets hit by it, she'll die so fast even a minion would probably have taken longer to kill. But then again, that's sort of obvious and not too helpful I guess.

My bad.

yeah. im starting to realize too that supports like Janna combined with jinx / vayne, are way scarier than janna combined with traditional adcs like caitlyn/lucian/ezreal.

I remember one time me and a rengar couldnt get CLOSE to a vayne that had a good janna... man it was so hard lol. So yeah it happens but i dont really mind vayne.

The only thing i hate about vayne is how i can take her 1-12 but she can still 1v1 anyone

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 5, 20161 votes

about the same counterplay you have against those who use zhonyas

take that how you will

MagicFlyingLlamaOct 5, 20161 votes

item 3341 item 3364

MunchCrunchLunchOct 5, 20161 votes

yeah with the delay on it and too much effects in team fights this doesnt work

StrawberrycocoaOct 5, 20161 votes

This s why I hate League's consumable-based counterlay to stealth. At least when we had Oracle Elixir we could grab it and still utilize all six item slots. I honestly wish they'd give all invisiblity champs the Rengar/Eve treatment and put a ! to alert players to their invisible presence.

DunkinNoobsOct 5, 20161 votes

Who says you can't buy pink wards late game? No one is stopping you m8. You're the one choosing to build a 6th item on support instead of winning; don't blame Riot.

AstôlfoOct 5, 20161 votes

Eh, that argument isn't really too good of one, because the support on the enemy team probably doesn't need a pink and can go a far more important all-round utility item vs something to save just for Vayne's ult which they'd need to restock pretty much every back.

DunkinNoobsOct 5, 20161 votes

Do you want to counter the strongest part of Vaynes kit or not?

ViiLLAiNOct 5, 20161 votes

item 3364

BoulderoxOct 5, 20161 votes

just wait till preseason 7... stealth will be split into: camouflage- can be seen by pink, long lasting, non combat powers. Invisibility- CANNOT BE SEEN BY PINKS, short, combat use, and it is pretty confirmed that vayne will be in this category...