Why is "Assassin" still a class?

Unreformed Shaco·Jul 10, 2017·9 votes·1,229 views

Redundant class because lethality is, and always will be, pure unrefined trash.

Mages do the same thing, without having to be in the face of their victim.

The whole point of assassins was "early game bully, get fed, snowball because you fall off late game as you get shafted in teamfights."

Lethality pretty much says "You're until you get some levels."

Their whole game is pretty much "Hope that someone on the enemy team is stupid enough to be away from their team."

I don't think anyone really came out better from your great update.

is garbage. is trash. has no early but stupidly strong late. is a problem that you are continually failing to fix. Who?

Just mass revert it. Everyone will be happy.

43 Comments

BLACK REALM GODJul 10, 20176 votes

things you mentioned

assassins are ability based

mages are ability based

things you forgot to mention

assassins have unique resource pools (kat, zed, rengar, etc.)

mages have mana (except kennen who could arguably be an assassin and vlad who used to be a tank)

assassins have mobility

mages have defensive spells

assassins single out targets

mages hit as many opponents as possible per spell

assassins have shorter cooldowns overall

mages have longer cooldowns overall

there are more, but that's surely enough to validate my point

mages do one thing and assassins do another. the reason why assassins play mid is because the single enemy in mid usually has low hp, low armor and magic resist, and is immobile.

if you're jungling as an assassin that still makes mid an awesome place to go.

sometimes mid has a fighter instead of a mage or assassin and when that's the case you need to be careful.

literally the entire point of an assassin is to single out mages and marksmen.

if there are no mages or marksmen on your opponents side then you're better off just being a fighter or mage. that has nothing to do with nerfs or lethality. that's intended gameplay design.

of course flat armor penetration was better than lethality. thats the entire point. the idea is that if your opponents buy armor and magic resist then they're probably not high value targets anyway and if they are then they'll be sacrificing too much damage to matter. either way it works in the assassin's favor.

DoozkuJul 10, 20173 votes

assassins have shorter cooldowns overall

mages have longer cooldowns overall

I have to disagree here. Sure Assassins tend to have their big damage on a low CD, they need to get out after an Assassination quickly or else they are gonna die. In which case they are going to do nothing because they generally can't get back into the fight since they have to wait for their gapcloser (often times an ultimate) to come off cooldown. Mages almost always have a low cd spammable ability that they can use in a fight after they blew all of their load onto a carry. Think Annie Q, Syndra Q, Veigar Q, Ahri Q. They can do things afterwards, unlike Zed for example who has to wait for his 20 second cd W before he can do anything.

mages do one thing and assassins do another.

Mages (we are talking about Burst Mages here. Battle Mages like Vlad or Karth are something else entirely.) are supposed to burst down a target as fast as possible from ranged, while also providing CC. Afterwards, they can do AOE damage overtime in a fight when their CD's come back. They also excell at waveclearing from a distance. Assassins are supposed to burst down a target as quickly as possible, maybe get out, and then they can't do anything because they have to wait for their cd's to come back up before they can go back in. Notice a problem? Mages do basically the same thing that Assassins do except from range and while also being safer and providing CC. That's why Assassins are a gimped class. They don't bring anything to the table that mages don't do. That means that there's no reason to pick an Assassin over a Mage unless Mage items are terrible or Assassin items are overpowered. Not to mention classes like Tanks directly stop Assassins while Mages have less problems dealing with tanks. Also with the ADC meta, assassins are having more problems killing ADC's since they have strong defensive and lifesteal items that basically allow them to "draintank" the Assassins and outscale them hard, making Assassins nothing more than snowbally early/mid game champions who fall off hard.

Unreformed ShacoJul 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I have to disagree here. Sure Assassins tend to have their big damage on a low CD, they need to get out after an Assassination quickly or else they are gonna die. In which case they are going to do nothing because they generally can't get back into the fight since they have to wait for their gapcloser (often times an ultimate) to come off cooldown. Mages almost always have a low cd spammable ability that they can use in a fight after they blew all of their load onto a carry. Think Annie Q, Syndra Q, Veigar Q, Ahri Q. They can do things afterwards, unlike Zed for example who has to wait for his 20 second cd W before he can do anything.

To add to this, they also need to sacrifice a skill to escape.

Talon no longer has a damaging E, it is purely mobile/positioning Shaco, once he is in he is in it until the end, or uses his ultimate as a distraction. Not really doing damage there. If Zed wants an escape he forfeits his shadow. Akali has to either ult away, sacrificing damage, or just hope the fight ends before her dome.

Assassins are supposed to be high risk (jumping into faces) but high reward (quick kill). Right now they are high risk low reward. It's just better to burst them from range and still provide strong cc and utility.

BLACK REALM GODJul 11, 20171 votes

that's due to poor positioning and an abundance of defensive items. namely item 3026 item 3157 for armor and item 3102 item 3190 for magic resist.

the two masks dont help the issues.

item 3001 item 3194

so while there is a problem its not with assassins. it's the aftermath of the item changes. you have to wait until your opponent is at about 500 hp if you're going to kill them. that's about what most evenly leveled assassins can put out in true damage.

chipndip1Jul 10, 20171 votes

Only thing wrong with your post: Suggesting that someone could say that Kennen's an assassin of all things. Outside of that, +1

BLACK REALM GODJul 11, 20171 votes

he's a mage now, but he used to deal lots of physical damage and was classified as a marksman. which made him pretty much assassin like. imagine vayne, but slightly longer range and the ability to use items like rageblade+youmuus at full stacks in 2 seconds. was scary.

RexxieeJul 10, 20173 votes

Assassins will not be playable until riot actually nerf support itemization across the board, and since that is never going to happen because "MUH OPPRESSED ROLE CAN NEVER BE OVERPOWERED!!!" then assassins are just doomed to rot in the bronze/silver stomper "role" and be garbage at any half decent elo+ for their lifetime.

Zed killed you in a combo using his whole kit while you were out of position as a mage or support? NERF THAT SHIT WTF, oh btw buff my thresh pls 54% win rate with 40% pick rate is not good enough, supports are still too weak :////

Unreformed ShacoJul 10, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Assassins will not be playable until riot actually nerf support itemization across the board, and since that is never going to happen because "MUH OPPRESSED ROLE CAN NEVER BE OVERPOWERED!!!" then assassins are just doomed to rot in the bronze/silver stomper "role" and be garbage at any half decent elo+ for their lifetime.

Zed killed you in a combo using his whole kit while you were out of position as a mage or support? NERF THAT SHIT WTF, oh btw buff my thresh pls 54% win rate with 40% pick rate is not good enoguh, supports are still too weak :////

Meddler is a support main. Now you know why their itemization is so strong.

MunchCrunchLunchJul 10, 20173 votes

am more scared of most adcs insta gibbing me. not assassins. it just doesn't happen anymore unless your levels behind and they are items ahead. which even a tank can instagib you then. lol.

Akali is SO HOTJul 10, 20173 votes

Lethality is being changed next patch so it scales with your level instead of your opponents so it should actually be pretty okay. Assassins are still gonna be bad, but that's what happens when you have a balance team that hates Assassins and has a hard on for giving ADCs and Supports new toys to screw over Assassins with every few patches.

Big LincolnJul 10, 20172 votes

hope akali gets compensation nerfs for lethality buffs

Akali is SO HOTJul 10, 20171 votes

only makes sense Xd

bbQsauçeJul 10, 20173 votes

[deleted]

LimmieJul 10, 20172 votes

Akali stopped being a midlane assassin to be a toplane bully of other melee champs, and instead of roaming she splitpushes. People who played her before the rework were mostly midlaners that liked the roaming playstyle, so of course they're annoyed that they now have to play in a way that's the very opposite of what they liked or just give up the champion althogether because she's completely unviable in her original role.

Unreformed ShacoJul 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N2pAW6My,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-07-10T13:29:35.436+0000)

Why these boards keep saying akali is garbage? She's really strong right now, i don't understand all these people saying she's bad.

Zed is kinda bad, but playable if you're skilled enough.

I agree with the rest.

I'm saying she is underplayed. I think her ability to enter and re-enter invisibility is bullshit with very little time for retaliation.

RengoooJul 10, 20172 votes

Thing is, everyone wont be happy with a mass revert. Assassins are probably the most hated class when strong, seeing as though Riot seems to be incredibly vigilant to nerf them as soon as they are remotely strong.

Possibly underlying issues with the class concept as a whole? Idk.. it does suck for any assassin enthusiast though.

Succubús GFJul 10, 20174 votes

Caitlyn has really never been not strong but you know, better nerf lb 50 more times

RengoooJul 10, 20172 votes

Rito and their favorite class of all time huh?

RexxieeJul 10, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Afk Warding,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N2pAW6My,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-07-10T07:21:26.233+0000)

has really never been not strong but you know, better nerf lb 50 more times

That feel when LB is still a top tier mid in competitive play but the silvers here think shes bad :/

And cait was garbage before the rework and just after the rework, before they buffed her traps dmg.

Succubús GFJul 10, 20172 votes

That feel when you are literally unranked and pathetically use a ranked card~~ Also lb is only strong because items are allowing her to be strong. That w nerf really screwed her and she feels nothing like what leblanc was.

I'm sorry when was cait garbage? What patch was that? Her win rate isn't even above 51 LMFAO https://www.op.gg/champion/leblanc/statistics/mid

RexxieeJul 10, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Afk Warding,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N2pAW6My,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2017-07-10T07:27:16.182+0000)

That feel when you are literally unranked and pathetically use a ranked card~~ Also lb is only strong because items are allowing her to be strong. That w nerf really screwed her and she feels nothing like what leblanc was.

I'm sorry when was cait garbage? What patch was that?

That feel when this is just one of my accounts that i dont play on been a while :/, but you bother to look me up and dont even look my other season history and see that i got to diamond from unranked in 40 games on this account with a 35/5 w/l.

That feel when ppl cant remember things that have happened couple months ago/have bad memory problem.

Cait was reworked because she was useless in the first place, she served no role in the game and was outclassed by other adcs, thats why they powered up her traps, to give her a niche/place in the game.

And right after the rework her traps actually had 0 base damage, so she had like a 46% win rate until they added the base damage into them (which is what also made her too strong in lane).

MrHaZeYoJul 10, 20171 votes

Lol, I love people who forget how bad/good champs once where. Cait was strong in season 3, after that she kinda just fell off in comparisons to others then got reworked with the ADs and still wasn't very good until the others got knocked off.

League goes through a cycle, people call for "Champion" to get nerfed to the ground then wonder how the next "champion" got so strong and we continue to rinse and repeat.

It's both good and bad, it keeps the meta fresh.

Agree with you're posts mate, dunno why you got downvoted lol.

Succubús GFJul 10, 20171 votes

Because nobody is constantly remembering tidbits of champions literally 50 patches ago+ League goes through a cycle where a champion is too strong and then get toned down and repeat.

Succubús GFJul 10, 20171 votes

When you looked me up first lmfao you sound silly., Op.gg is saying you don't even have s6 match history LOL

That feel when this is just one of my accounts that i dont play on been a while :/, but you bother to look me up and dont even look my other season history and see that i got to diamond from unranked in 40 games on this account with a 35/5 w/l.

Right bc everyone remembers every patch update out of the 60 there were since then.,

That feel when ppl cant remember things that have happened couple months ago/have bad memory problem.

Her rework was literally ages ago

RexxieeJul 10, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Afk Warding,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N2pAW6My,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2017-07-10T07:27:16.182+0000)

Her win rate isn't even above 51 LMFAO https://www.op.gg/champion/leblanc/statistics/mid

Holy shit are you clueless or what?

LB when she had her silence and she was one of the most OP champs in the game she had a 48% winrate or so in solo q.

Stop basing yourself only on winrates with nothing else, use your head, pros dont spam or pick/ban weak champs in competitive play.

Succubús GFJul 10, 20173 votes

You literally said "God tier champion" if she was god tier she would have over a 50% wr. Holy shit are you stupid? That was because old lb was pretty fucking trash other than a kill farmer

MrHaZeYoJul 10, 20171 votes

Hover over his name, it clearly shows that he has at least been Diamond prior to this season lol.

RengoooJul 10, 20172 votes

Standard comment attacking someones rank...

10/10 for originality.

MysterQJul 10, 20171 votes

I don't think it started that way. He was just saying LB is a very strong pick in competitive, so calling her trash is incorrect.

And while competitive matters, performance in low ELO should matter as well.

chipndip1Jul 10, 20171 votes

Not that much, honestly. Some, but let's be honest, balancing for low, high, and coordinated play ALL AT THE SAME TIME is taxing. Something's gotta give, and low elo is the primary skill level that should, and does, go first when it comes to these types of things.

chipndip1Jul 10, 20171 votes

I don't even see LB anymore in my games.

Is she used in the pro scene?

Not xPekeJul 10, 20171 votes

in NA shes still quite popular.

chipndip1Jul 11, 20171 votes

I rarely see LB and I play in NA...

Not xPekeJul 11, 20171 votes

I meant in pro play ^^.

LB is much more common than in EU.

chipndip1Jul 11, 20171 votes

Oh. Thanks.

Unreformed ShacoJul 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Thing is, everyone wont be happy with a mass revert. Assassins are probably the most hated class when strong, seeing as though Riot seems to be incredibly vigilant to nerf them as soon as they are remotely strong.

Possibly underlying issues with the class concept as a whole? Idk.. it does suck for any assassin enthusiast though.

They are supposed to be strong against mages. As a mage, you are supposed to die to an assassin. It's like crying that you don't hit Kassadin very hard as a mage and crying for a nerf.

Bad players being bad shouldn't mean an entire class gets put on the backbench.

ZT XperimentorJul 10, 20172 votes

Never played swain or taliyah I take it?

Automated RivenJul 10, 20171 votes

I would be super happy with a leblanc rework. She feels like shit now. Altho that could be that I wont play her now cause she feels so bad.

King of DemonsJul 10, 20171 votes

Good circle jerk you got going here.

Akali is perfectly fine too.

What you don't understand is that generally neither of them are a detriment having on your team, but they are not the best choice 100% of the time. If you could just spam one champion every single game without being put at a disadvantage at some point then they would be overpowered. Just look at Zed. When he was good you could just play him every single game because he had near zero downsides. Strong and ranged waveclear and harass, strong burst that wasn't even 100% reliant on his ultimate. Now you actually have to put thought into them, oh no!

But hey, keep on saying that everything is bad because it's not braindead or because it is out of meta at the moment.

Succubús GFJul 10, 20173 votes

Generally assassins ARE bad and it is because they are out of meta, that's what makes them bad. Support items are very strong right now. Not to mention adcs and juggernauts are kind of just throwing everything back in an assassin's face.

VanëssaJul 10, 20171 votes

Why di you still complain about LeBlanc? I have always mained her. After the W nerf,i don't use that spell for dmg, but to hit as many enemies to activate my passive on them in order to use Q and proc the sigil on all of them. It still does a lot of dmg. The only problem is that she is so bad in late game. Many of you will disagree but it's the truth. She dies before procing any sigil due to the 2.5 sec delay.

Unreformed ShacoJul 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Why di you still complain about LeBlanc? I have always mained her. After the W nerf,i don't use that spell for dmg, but to hit as many enemies to activate my passive on them in order to use Q and proc the sigil on all of them. It still does a lot of dmg. The only problem is that she is so bad in late game. Many of you will disagree but it's the truth. She dies before procing any sigil due to the 2.5 sec delay.

I'm not complaining. I am saying that she is on their list for another rework because the current one didn't quite hit the mark. The 2.5 second delay is exactly the problem. Early game she can zone you for that time because if you're on the map while you have that mark, you'll die. Late game she has to sit around and wait for 2.5 seconds, at which time the ADC laughs and two shots her.

She is just a victim of the assassin rework.

chipndip1Jul 10, 20171 votes

Shaco

Strong late game

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/021/464/14608107_1180665285312703_1558693314_n.jpg