Quinn Q change to help bruiser and assassin Quinn

Sir Rouge·Dec 3, 2014·1 votes·978 views

I was thinking, how would be Quinn if her Q in bird form changed to a small AoE fear instead of AoE blind? Would that be too much or a really good change to make her viable and possibly a good bruiser that can initiate fights by entering with e in bird form and then fearing people beside her? Since she's like an assassin/bruiser/adc, but very frowned upon as an adc because of her e in range form and her ulti, this change would be very good for her bruiser and assassin imo and clarify what Quinn ''should'' be (unless we change her to make her more adc).

Edit: Could be a short stun instead (like those 0.75 ones) as people made me realise that a fear doesn't really fit any theme here. Unless crazy bird Caw Caw scary.

14 Comments

Tis a nice dayDec 3, 20142 votes

Might as well have it stun. The only fears in this game are from abilities that are thematically "scary" (Shaco's jack in the box, fiddle's fear, nocturne's unspeakable horror, big badass roar from a towering volibear but only to minions/monsters)

TsundayDec 3, 20142 votes

I would be pretty scared if I watched a lady disappear before my eyes and all of a sudden there was this huge bird there flying at me like it wanted my eyes or my blood or something.

Sir RougeDec 3, 20141 votes

Caw Caw Quinn. New skin.

NightNinja13Dec 3, 20142 votes

I think a stun would help her kit a lot. Fear doesn't quite fit the theme.

AnonagonDec 3, 20142 votes

Both a fear and a stun don't fit thematically at all. The blind makes perfect sense from a thematic perspective - Valor is literally gouging their eyes out.
Bruiser Quinn is already strong, and that would make Assassin Quinn downright broken
If Quinn gets buffs, that is not what she needs.

Sir RougeDec 3, 20141 votes

Ex: brand has a 2 secs stun, no theme behind it whatsoever. It could be one of those really short fears or stuns, as her ''pray'' is caught off guard. Imo, bruiser quinn is not strong apart from laning phase. She has no inate tankiness, she has no damage if she builds tank since she relies on her aa s, and her only cc is a slow (no hard cc). If Quinn enters a fight, she either dies because she's squishy or does nothing but apply a short slow to one person and blind people around her for 1.5 secs. Maybe it would be too much for assassin Quinn I agree, but she has no escape anyways if she goes in with e.

AnonagonDec 3, 20142 votes

Ex: brand has a 2 secs stun, no theme behind it whatsoever. It could be one of those really short fears or stuns, as her ''pray'' is caught off guard. Imo, bruiser quinn is not strong apart from laning phase. She has no inate tankiness, she has no damage if she builds tank since she relies on her aa s, and her only cc is a slow (no hard cc). If Quinn enters a fight, she either dies because she's squishy or does nothing but apply a short slow to one person and blind people around her for 1.5 secs.

The point is, the blind is thematic and relatively unique, considering that only her and Teemo have one. A fear or stun is a much more powerful and generally useful CC - but Quinn's strength should not lie in CC.

Yes, Bruiser Quinn is only a lane bully - thats the entire point. You don't pick Bruiser Quinn top lane to scale into lategame, you pick it to shut down a strong melee opponent. If you want to scale as Quinn, you build as an Assassin, because that is what she is. Quinn is not someone you should be diving into a teamfight as - you should be skirting along the edge of the battle waiting for an ideal assassination target.

You are arguing for a needless buff that will just be a nuisance to top laners who already complain about Quinn being "ranged cancer". I won't deny that Quinn could use some love, but this is not the way to buff her.

Sir RougeDec 3, 20141 votes

Or, they could remake her melee as her original design was since nobody is able to find something that makes Quinn viable. Most lane bullies still scale better than her. Of course the blind is cooler as it fits her theme, imo we could rework her and give her a blind in human (melee) form and a short stun in bird form or something. For assassin Quinn, she is nothing compared to the other assassins, so obv something is wrong. Ex: Zed can be considered a lane bully, has may more burst and has an escape with his gap closer.

AnonagonDec 3, 20141 votes

Or, they could remake her melee as her original design was since nobody is able to find something that makes Quinn viable. Most lane bullies still scale better than her. Of course the blind is cooler as it fits her theme, imo we could rework her and give her a blind in human (melee) form and a short stun in bird form or something. For assassin Quinn, she is nothing compared to the other assassins, so obv something is wrong. Ex: Zed can be considered a lane bully, has may more burst and has an escape with his gap closer.

No, I have made several threads describing what Quinn needs to become viable (mainly on old GD, but I'm thinking about reviving one here on Boards). What she needs is A) AA animation cleanups, and B) that one awesome ult change that they put on PBE then removed.

Making her Melee is out of the question - yes, she was originally concepted as a melee assassin, but that design was scrapped for a reason. For the ranger/bird tamer character it simply makes much more sense to be ranged. Making her melee would require far too intensive of a rework for a character that is already dead-on when it comes to how she should be.

Quinn in her current state as an assassin is ideal for what an assassin should be, and she is balanced (or maybe a little underpowered) as an assassin. Zed is ridiculously stupid and pitching him as the mark for assassins to meet is stupid when literally everyone is crying out for nerfs or other changes for Zed. Quinn's strengths are different from other assassins - while her burst is more item dependent and not as strong as say, Zed or Talon, Quinn excels in other areas - namely mobility and tower killing. Her sustained damage is also much higher than other assassins.

In the end, you need to stop pitching around ideas for random needless buffs and instead focus on what is actually wrong. Quinn's biggest problem is the buggyness of her AA animations, which make orbwalking and last hitting much harder than it should be. Her other major problem is the amount of unnecessary gates to her ultimate's power - namely, mana costs and cooldown (which stupidly starts at the end of her ult, not the beginning).

Sir RougeDec 3, 20141 votes

A) Of course I agree, her AA's are not very good. That will get changed eventually lol or at least it should. B) They tested that (very short while and overlooked imo but still) and apparently it didn't work as they wanted it to or something, so they put Quinn on hold. Besides, they would be taking off the damage part of her ult if they put that change, and so bbye assassin Quinn.

Of course Zed is over-powered, but apart of damage and number wise, his kit is just so much better. Quinn and talon are basically the same, except talon doesn't bully in lane but excels soo much more in teamfights assassination (more burst, lower ult CD, 2nd part of ult still better escape than nothing). Tower killing, I agree. Out of any assassin I would say she's the best at it. Her mobility is mostly for out-of-combat though, and good for ganking.

Maybe mana costs and ult CD is all she needs, but I think they stated that they will not just lower it for some reason that I forgot (unless taking the damage off).

What is actually wrong is that Quinn is like Diana, good at multiple things, but not very good at anything. Of course versatility is interesting and good, but Quinn being confused as a bruiser-assassin-adc is bad like diana's bruiser-assassin-mage off-tank. You need an identity as a champion, she has none. She needs a change other than mana costs imo, as it would be very hard to make her balanced with numbers.

KonidiasDec 4, 20141 votes

I feel like since Quinn is strongest as an assassin, they should focus on that and give her some cooldown resets or something like all the other broken assassins get.

Right now if you assassinate someone on Quinn, you are basically done.... unless you can stay in bird form and still get the assassinate. Most assassins get resets. Quinn just gets to die if she can't escape right away.

Sir RougeDec 4, 20141 votes

Resets would be cool. Idk what kind of resets would be best tho, like either flat seconds abilities, ult, both etc... but this buff instead of what I proposed would be great

KonidiasDec 4, 20141 votes

The more I think about it, the more I like it.

Getting a kill in valor form or with skystrike should reset your QWE.

Ult should probably stay as is, because it would be brokenly OP if you could just extend your valor form indefinitely.

But yeah, a lot of times when I see 2-3 mid health enemies nearby... I can engage on one, assassinate them while keeping valor form... but then I'm just flying in circles waiting for my cooldowns because I can't really just fly in and start auto attacking the other targets. That's suicide.

Because of the huge cooldown on your ultimate, you should definitely be able to get in more skills during Valor time.

You are always still at risk of getting hit with CC... which stops any assassin as it should... But at least you aren't just flying around at super speed doing nothing.

Having QWE reset after skystrike kill would be fantastic for at least having a chance to disengage on enemies who are now right on top of you after you killed their teammate. As of now, if you fly in and assassinate someone who is near a teammate, that teammate will 100% be able to stop you afterward. At least give Quinn a chance to get away outside of using a Summoner spell.

Also, it at least makes more sense doing it this way since honestly Quinn and Valor should not be sharing cooldowns in the first place. They aren't the same entity so it makes no sense how Valor using vault somehow means Quinn has to wait to use her own vault. One is a bird and one is a human. Why are they sharing cooldowns? Quinn isn't actually transforming into Valor. Valor takes her place on the battlefield.

Sir RougeDec 5, 20141 votes

I'm definitely behind that CD idea! I think it should be taken one step at a time though. Like maybe test having Quinn and Valor not share the same CDs, and see if she's balanced that way, if not or if resets could still be added then implement that and see how it is. man would be amazing