I pretty much can't play this season, I'm a jg/top main and my best champs (Hecarim, Nasus, Yorick, Nautilus, and Pyke) are practically useless
And I can't win because of some stupid-ass Talon/Yi/Zed being 5-7/0 by the 10 minute point, or my partners quit after being first blood, this meta just doesn't feel healthy at all
Rins Thigh Socks31 votesNo, they probably said, "Well the community wants tanks nerfed and fighters buffed" and nerfed the tanks and buffed the fighters
Then, "The community wants the individual player to be able to solo carry if they snowball" so they changed that
Don't forget, "Supports get too much income and do too much" as well as, "ADCs ramp up way too quickly"
This was all asked for BY THE PLAYERS.
RekSai CoffeeCo12 votes[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MwPXHsjF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-10T14:42:59.087+0000)
No, they probably said, "Well the community wants tanks nerfed and fighters buffed" and nerfed the tanks and buffed the fighters
Then, "The community wants the individual player to be able to solo carry if they snowball" so they changed that
Don't forget, "Supports get too much income and do too much" as well as, "ADCs ramp up way too quickly"
This was all asked for BY THE PLAYERS.
Show me a post where People were asking for scuttle changes. I will also need a post that shows where players before 8.10 said well jungle needs to be 2-4 levels under solo laners till mid game point so their impact on lanes is nonexistent.
BLIGHTBRINGER4 votesThat's not completely true. Some Junglers just struggle to keep up with other Junglers clear speed, making them get behind.
I barely ever see Lee Sin, Graves, Kayn get behind.
RainXBlade1 votesI barely ever see Lee Sin, Graves, Kayn get behind.
I can agree on Graves and (Blue) Kayn never getting behind. But then again, their kits have so much frontloaded damage that it's stupid to see an 0/3 Graves still have the ability to kill a squishy in a few hits.
Lee Sin falls off, so there's that.
BLIGHTBRINGER4 votesLee Sin falls off, so there's that.
I always see people saying that but I never actually see something like that in game. I guess a good Lee will have ways to be relevant in fights.
CppL2 votesHe falls off late game.But we dont have late game anymore.Games last 25 min max.You guys need to stop repeating that ,cause thats bullshit.
AmWhaleIRL9 votes[{quoted}](name=RekSai CoffeeCo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MwPXHsjF,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-07-10T15:02:44.835+0000)
Show me a post where People were asking for scuttle changes. I will also need a post that shows where players before 8.10 said well jungle needs to be 2-4 levels under solo laners till mid game point so their impact on lanes is nonexistent.
Go back 2 - 3 months ago and you'll find dozens of threads from whiny top laners that thought it was unfair the JG ganked them at level 3 when they still had level 2 despite this gank being super duper predictable and avoidable.
Baron of Bread2 votesThat gank may have been predictable and avoidable, but it involved any early lane pressure top laner to give up on that dream and throw away any lead they had generated. It needed to go.
SugeMinPikk1 votesI still do it. 
AmWhaleIRL2 votes[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MwPXHsjF,comment-id=0000000100010000,timestamp=2018-07-10T20:36:32.545+0000)
That gank may have been predictable and avoidable, but it involved any early lane pressure top laner to give up on that dream and throw away any lead they had generated. It needed to go.
You're referring to the 2:30 - 3:00 point in those past games. 30 seconds, maybe 1 minute of respect and then you were fine. It's WAY over the top dramatic people like you who made the game the way it is today by not accepting your own failure to improve and instead blame something else. If you lost lane because of 30 - 60 seconds of respect then you're a terrible top laner and don't deserve to be coddled like the child you top laners acted as. I always went secondary top and never had an issue on early game tops or died to the level 3 one minute long window JG ganks. Stop ruining the game by failing to improve please.
Automated Riven3 votesI agree that one gank had a ton of counterplay. But 30-60 seconds is 300-400 damage of poke or 6-12 cs (130-260 gold) denied, if you were a lane bully. To argue that respecting that one power window everygame because if you didn't you auto lost had no effect on lane is completely stupid.
KlydeFrog2 votesYep sounds about right. I don't find any issue with the game tbh lol. I have my 6 or 7. Champs i play and thats it lol
Leto GT6 votesNow they cry because they're not ganked anymore. Still no thread about the need for them to learn wave management and their match up though.
KlydeFrog1 votesLol if your that much lowet in level you are not jungling right at all
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesJungle is the same overpowered low skill role as before. Nothing really changed.
RekSai CoffeeCo1 votesJungle is the same overpowered low skill role as before. Nothing really changed.
Lol if your that much lowet in level you are not jungling right at all
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/replays/with-high-kda/kayn
Look for Master+ Kayn vs Taliyah (22:38)
20 cs for kayn (2-0-0) vs 20 cs for malphite (0-2-0) and kayn is still one level lower. 28 cs for both and malphite is up a level even when kayn got a super scuttle and krugs.
2nd Kayn(m+) vs Camille (m+) 28:11
at 6 min mark level 5 Kayn (1-0-2)35 cs d/c till 1 min mark as well vs 48 cd gangplank level 6(top) and level 6 talon (1-1-2) 45 cs
Reksai (Skt T1 Fakeru) vs Sejunai both challengers 31:32 7-6 gamedate
both junglers and mid/tops are 0-0-0 across board with one kill botlane at 6 mins
Reksai level 4 33 cs (full redteam clear, first scuttle , enemy krugs) still only 4 Sejunai level 3 20 cs
reks teammate vlad(top) 27 cs level 5 zilean (mid) 30 cs level 5
top lane darius 37 cs level 5 mid Diana 33 cs level 6
these are just the close games by higher elo junglers and there are points where they are 2 levels under the tops and mids so going by your comments im guessing that "They are not jungling right" ?
AirKingNeo2 votesuhhh but they didn't nerf the tanks nor did they buff the fighters.
they never nerfed supports' income either
bringing back 2 kill shutdown gold and making jungle gank level 2 isn't helping solo carrying
Rins Thigh Socks2 votesuhhh but they didn't nerf the tanks nor did they buff the fighters.
they never nerfed supports' income either
bringing back 2 kill shutdown gold and making jungle gank level 2 isn't helping solo carrying
They nerfed Locket tanks by nerfing Locket a while back, then they nerfed the remaining tanks indirectly by both adding Conquerer and Bone Plating.
"But Bone Plating is a tank mastery" yes but it and second wind help bruisers get past the laning phase. Tanks don't care about getting past laning phase because they'll literally always be relevant as CC bots but bruisers need to survive to become splitpushers and duelists.
Support income was not touched but shield+healing power got halved on like every item.
then bounties got converted into more solo gold, towers got converted into more solo gold, TP got nerfed and is getting nerfed again, and ignite got buffed. It is legitimately an easier game for you to try solo carry from almost every role. Especially because if everyone is bringing damage, you've got more potential to surprise and kill them.
AirKingNeo2 votesthen they nerfed the remaining tanks indirectly by both adding Conquerer and Bone Plating.
Bone Plating was not a nerf to tanks. Buffing another class is not indirectly nerfing another and most tanks beat any champion who takes Conqueror in lane.
"But Bone Plating is a tank mastery" yes but it and second wind help bruisers get past the laning phase. Tanks don't care about getting past laning phase because they'll literally always be relevant as CC bots but bruisers need to survive to become splitpushers and duelists.
Great. Tanks also have these 2 runes making your point kinda mute. Bruisers need to win lane or else they just fall out of the game.
Support income was not touched but shield+healing power got halved on like every item.
and this nerfed Alistar, Braum, Thresh, and Tahm Kench how exactly?
Rins Thigh Socks6 votesBuffing another class is not indirectly nerfing another Buffing another class is not indirectly nerfing another Buffing another class is not indirectly nerfing another Buffing another class is not indirectly nerfing another Buffing another class is not indirectly nerfing another Buffing another class is not indirectly nerfing another Buffing another class is not indirectly nerfing another Buffing another class is not indirectly nerfing another Buffing another class is not indirectly nerfing another Buffing another class is not indirectly nerfing another
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
AirKingNeo1 votesthe actual strength of a tank didn't lessen, so that's not a nerf.
Automated Riven6 votesThis is stupid logic. If I made every champion in the game start with 10× the HP and 10× the damage except Jax would he not be EFFECTIVLY nerfed? Because every other champion has +~- equal stats in comparison to every other champion. Except Jax. Buffing the ENTIRE bruiser class was a Nerf to tanks.
Also the actual strength of the tank did lesson. Because the power of every damn other champion was buffed. The entire path down the resolve tree was nerfed. And specific tanks were nerfed.
AirKingNeo1 votesexcept that's "every champion" when we're talking about one. If I nerf Caitlyn, Lucian vs Varus is the exact same, therefore it would be stupid to say 'every adc was indirectly buffed' because they didn't rise in power, someone else just fell.
Automated Riven2 votesIt's not a champion tho. It's a class. Buffing an entire class which counters a specific class dead result in a lower level of power. Nunu has only had buffs recently (iirc) and his winrate is falling heavily. Because of tons of indirect nerfs which have happened.
AirKingNeo1 votesItem changes are direct changes. The game really shouldn't be balanced around "meta shifts". Like Nunu shifts into meta because support items are broken doesn't mean Nunu should be nerfed. Get what I mean?
Automated Riven1 votesIt's not items. It's that alot of nunus power is empowering marksmen late game. When crit marksmen are weak, that makes nunu weak. So he loses a ton of power. Also when junglers are getting gold from ganking rather then jungle camps, nunus ability to counter jungle is less effective.
None of these are direct nerfs to nunu, but they effect his power which result in him being nerfed. Indirect nerfs. He does not have the same level of power as he used too because marksmen are weaker and coubterjungling is less effective. Meaning the only potential power of nunu is basically Baron control, but with snowball that only matters if he can effect the game earlier. Which he doesn't do well.
The entire game changed which made him weaker. But you can't claim that he is more powerful now based solely on direct buffs from when he had a 45-50% winrate then to now when he has a 39% winrate. He isn't because the game changes effected his power.
The same is true of tanks. Not only were specific overpowered ones nerfed. But the entire resolve tree which was making them overbearing was nerfed. Then the items were nerfed. Then bruisers (which they should do rather well into early), was buffed. These are all direct and indirect nerfs to tanks which leaves their effective usefulness and power reduced.
AugustHeatHaze2 votesi feel like the community asks for nerfing whatever is meta and annoying them without considering the consequences?
this happens in other games too, like overwatch, its less pronounced here but its still happening?
I remember seeing "tank meta is horrible no one dies" or something and now ive seen "tanks are useless" ??
i dunno if the mass complainers are listened to as much though, they hard nerfed zoe but with the intention of rebuffing even though some people want zoe removed from the game essentially.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesThe problem is the vast majority of the community even up to the highest ranks having zero brain. They don't understand the game. The other problem then is the rank distribution. 99% of these boards and reddit and what not have no idea what they are talking about. They see a garen running through their team because he has 20 kills and call it bruiser meta and being able to "solocarry". Meanwhile the garen who doesnt play against armless player gets permaCC'd and dies and is entirely reliant on what the rest of the map is doing.
They call jungle trash and ruined i see the enemy kayn literally sitting my lane for 2 minutes straight and still not losing anything for it.
AugustHeatHaze1 votesah yes the old "this hero is op because they beat me" when in reality the hero is beating you because they are fed
TrikzterzArma1 votesNobody asked for the game to SNOWBALL THIS HARD, or for solo-carries to be able to oneshot everyone
Rins Thigh Socks2 votesNobody asked for the game to SNOWBALL THIS HARD, or for solo-carries to be able to oneshot everyone
Yeah and when ADC went from "ADC in 2k17" to "If sup doesn't buy Ardent, he's trolling" we didn't ask for adcs to be the only relevant member of your team.
We just asked for supports to have meaningful impacts in fights and for ADCs to come online faster. Look what we got.
You can blame Riot all you want if you don't at least let the community share some of the blame you're being ignorant.
Nea1041 votesNOVEMBER 2017. Pretty much everyone with an average brain said: damage is absurd now. July 2018. More than SEVEN MONTHS after: damage is EVEN HIGHER.
So please, just don't.
LeonidPower1 votesno i feel like what the players are asking is good its just that riot over does thing, i bet in the riot HQ they are like "ok so lets nerf the shit out of tanks so no one plays oh and crit adcs" u get me right ?
Rins Thigh Socks1 votesno i feel like what the players are asking is good its just that riot over does thing, i bet in the riot HQ they are like "ok so lets nerf the shit out of tanks so no one plays oh and crit adcs" u get me right ?
No.
The problem is that the average player does not understand the game enough to critically think about how their champion/role fits in the game and meta, yet they always want the instant gratification of both doing okay without too many things to think about and they also want to feel powerful when they do well.
You combine these two traits and you get a group who, as soon as they feel their place in the game is infringed on by anything else, just complain. And while they could be onto something (like when they cry adcs op when adcs are op) the problem is two fold. The first problem is that they only want these things to go away because they have to adapt and play around it, and sometimes that's irritating, frustrating, or overwhelming, even if the champion is bad (i.e. Yasuo). The second problem is that they're biased and cannot see when their class is doing well, and will often misattribute the class's power to themselves. You saw this in the last 2 seasons when the boards' overwhelming mage main majority cried about assassins and Yasuo but Taliyah, Viktor, Syndra, Orianna, Cassiopeia, and Ryze were far and away the most busted champions in midlane.
So it's not good when boards cries because boards lacks critical understanding of the consequences and because they're doing it for selfish reasons.
And don't anyone reply to this saying, "I just want the game to be balanced" because odds are you're not, and even if you are I'm describing a group theory phenomenon that happens to describe most of the boards. There are going to be exceptions because this place isn't one huge hive mind.
AugustHeatHaze1 votes"So it's not good when boards cries because boards lacks critical understanding of the consequences and because they're doing it for selfish reasons"
yuuuuuuup
LeonidPower1 votesi agree that if something chances players will start crying about it but there is a line between oh players are crying cuz they cant adapt/oh they are just bad and one class or some champs being pick and win you feel me right ?
Rins Thigh Socks1 votesi agree that if something chances players will start crying about it but there is a line between oh players are crying cuz they cant adapt/oh they are just bad and one class or some champs being pick and win you feel me right ?
Yes. Sometimes they're right. I did point that out.
The better course is to say, "What are they crying about? Does it hold water? What does the champion do that's so bad?" and if you can answer those questions on your own without considering what the boards has to say then you look at the champion.
For example, let's look at Zoe. Her problem isn't her one shots. It's that her ranged waveclear and summoner spells on minions give her no interactability at any point in the game until skirmishes. So if you can't outburst her, you need to outscale or outroam, and she has so much priority in the river because she could be on the other side of the river and still burst you and she still outpushes you so outroaming is hardly in the picture.
So you need to outscale her, which is only determined in champion select. That's when you can look at a champ and be like, "Okay that's a problem that needs to get nerfed. No meaningful way to reach her and very little ways to outplay, and you put yourself at even greater risk because she's just as likely to fuck your day."
What I'm trying to say is if boards says something, think critically about how it could be a problem. Odds are they're not thinking critically, take things for face value, and boards should be ignored. For example, the boards thread that says, "Riot really shouldn't ignore us this time."
... it's being upvoted by salty boards players. Ofc it gains traction. Ignore it they're being salty. This is applicable to 90% of boards threads, lol.
webstar19956 votesYou should play Meta champs then...Nasus, Hec, Naut are not great rn. Pyke is a good support, Yorick is still a good splitter. Yi got nerfed so really if you have second pick on yi just pick Tryn, Jax, Xin and beat him easy. Tarzaned is hovering in the top 5 in NA challenger maining Xin, Graves, and Panth jg lately http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=tarzaned2. Really it just takes a couple weeks of learning how to play into the meta. Plus ban Zed GLHF
Step Sis Lux5 votesMany people are playing for fun with thier champions, not for winning with meta slaves champions
webstar19952 votes"I pretty much can't play this season, I'm a jg/top main and my best champs (Hecarim, Nasus, Yorick, Nautilus, and Pyke) are practically useless" in the post suggests that he should play other champs. I mean in ranked shouldnt you try to win every game? It is about winning in ranked not all about having fun.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesNo ranked used to be about skill. Not "are u a retard?" "here is vlad, zoe, graves. Pick them and collect your freelo because whatever you do these champions are so much better than anything else".
Nevrankroaton1 votesI ask you to find a competitive versus game (be it FPS, Moba or fighting game) that doesn't involve having a meta and tiers, which lead to some class/character/champions/archetype being weaker or stronger than other.
If you play a game and blame this game for having some optimals strategies/type of archetype/characters, playing a competitive game isn't maybe for you. If you want to have fun, everyone actually do too but you can't blame a competitive game from having non optimal things and optimals things. Riot try (Not talking about balance being right or wrong, I let that to the internet in their endless war) to balance that but you can't blame a game for having things that are optimal to win Vs others things not being optimal.
If you play league and want to blame it (especially league with the counterpick, team comp, current meta) for your champ not being strong atm, I really think you won't truly enjoy this game (again I feel people who only play their main kinda doom themselves to hate this game) and should try to find other fun game to play.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesDid you even know that riots first design philosophy when creating this game was that league should NOT be a game about counterpicks? They didn't want hardcounters, they didnt want champs stonewalling the lane and forcing a 50/50 they didnt want everyone to be overpowered. This game once was supposed about pure skill and it was. You could play anything into everything and win every game by pure skill SOLO.
Absolutely impossible now.
Glîtchy1 votesYou should play Meta champs then...Nasus, Hec, Naut are not great rn. Pyke is a good support, Yorick is still a good splitter. Yi got nerfed so really if you have second pick on yi just pick Tryn, Jax, Xin and beat him easy. Tarzaned is hovering in the top 5 in NA challenger maining Xin, Graves, and Panth jg lately http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=tarzaned2. Really it just takes a couple weeks of learning how to play into the meta. Plus ban Zed GLHF
Ew I don't bs like yi or Tryn, and I play those that I find fun, not meta
webstar19952 votesUmmmmmmmm you are whining about not whinning and i told you how. I never said play Yi....i told you how to beat him easily. Tryn was just an example ffs. can you not read? maybe thats why your wr is so damn low
Glîtchy1 votesUmmmmmmmm you are whining about not whinning and i told you how. I never said play Yi....i told you how to beat him easily. Tryn was just an example ffs. can you not read? maybe thats why your wr is so damn low
No, I just prefer champs I enjoy, not playing stupid-ass meta slaves/counters 24/7
webstar19951 votes"I pretty much can't play this season, I'm a jg/top main and my best champs (Hecarim, Nasus, Yorick, Nautilus, and Pyke) are practically useless. And I can't win because of some stupid-ass Talon/Yi/Zed being 5-7/0 by the 10 minute point, or my partners quit after being first blood, this meta just doesn't feel healthy at all" WAS YOUR POST FFS..... What was your point in posting it? Just to bitch and moan?
AugustHeatHaze5 votesyorick is the 4th highest winrate for top though?? how is that practically useless....
Glîtchy2 votesyorick is the 4th highest winrate for top though?? how is that practically useless....
Not when Yasuo is the opposing top lane (wall won't contain him he can use it to dash), which is what I see all the time, if I ban him then they take some other 1-shot fuckwad champ and camp the shit outta me.
AugustHeatHaze6 votesokay??? well yorick is the 4th highest winrate for a reason so maybe its an issue with you, what rank are you in? Are you at the lower end of the ladder? if so theres a lot of room for improvement and yorick is even BETTER there, yorick has the highest winrate for top from bronze to gold...
I really feel like you are biased and need to try to improve your own play instead of calling your champ useless.