Boards›Gameplay

"X Champion takes 0 skill to play!"

Mira Arya Enthe··93 votes·5,831 views

Okay, I have a challenge for you. Take a bronze 5 Annie, put them against Annie Bot(The player). If Annie takes 0 skill to play, then the Bronze 5 Annie will win 50% of the time, since they are on an even playing field.

Oh, what is that? The Diamond/Challenger/Master players are still beating the bronze players on 'skilless' champions? Even with the exact same build and gold? Damn... it's almost like they're utilizing the champion's strengths, weaknesses, design and mechanics better. To strategize against their enemies better.

Hate to tell you, but until you have literally maxed out the potential of the game's engine on how your champion can be refined with a perfectly calculated build and absolutely omniscience over what is happening in the game with perfect decision making. Then you haven't reached the peak of potential for your champion.

As long as a Diamond Garen player is better than a Silver Garen player, then he isn't a skilless champion.

League is very easy to pick up, hard to master in general. And only a few select individuals have mastered a couple specific champions to nearly their peak potential. But maybe if you are losing to Annie on Syndra, maybe you should try picking up a champion with a skill floor more suitable for you :^) rather than complaining that other people's champions "Don't require any skill!"

204 Comments

EcchiOtakuTM38 votes

There is no champ that takes 0 skill to play.

A champ either takes high mechanical skill or high decision making skill.

Not saying mechanical champs don't require decision, but usually champs with less going on in terms of complicated skill are more focused on using something when appropriate or roaming somewhere at the right time to get full value out of use.

So there are several champs who take less or no mechanical skill to play but the decision making you need to pull them off is what makes them difficult.

So you aren't wrong in a way, but explaining it badly. Cause the higher the elo the better decision making a lot of players have, which greatly makes up for mechanics of a champ.

Also on a side note, I kinda feel that mechanical players, while it can still do you well through a match, I feel that mechanical players get a bit too cocky. I feel if players were more rooted in decision making rather than mechanics there would be far less "league of throws". Cause one downside of when you have all these mechanics down you go towards "What can I do" instead of "What will my opponent do". Since mechanical skill feels more planned and reactive VS decision making which feels more predictive and value gaining.

Mira Arya Enthe13 votes

Well I never claimed to be a good public speaker.

Vistha Kai5 votes

Decision-making is a fundamental skill when playing any champion.

Take that "Katarina is hard to play, because if you jump into the enemy team in a bad moment you will die without doing anything" argument for example.

"If you dive into the enemy team with bad timing, you will die."

How is that different for any champion in the game?

The answer is: It's not.

RogueWill6 votes

If you are ekko you can jump out for example.

If you are karthus you can still take a few people with you

Vistha Kai1 votes

You can't jump out if you eat Morgana's binding to the face for example.

Karthus... A few? Hardly, but I guess he's an exception for being heavily punished for diving.

RogueWill2 votes

well those were out of the top of my head, kayle, kindred and tryn can ult, same with bard. And there are a bunch of champion that doesn't get punished at all for dying on a 5v1 if they do a eat a bunch of damage or is part of the gist. Singed for example want to dive in the 5v1 and zone people out and make them chase him

LordGeovanni1 votes

None of those people dive 5v1 as they still need their team to make something out of it. you are takeing being in the middle of the fight or being the first one in the fight for 5v1

Vistha Kai2 votes

First of all "5v1" dive, means that YOUR team jumps ona SINGLE enemy.

But I'm just nitpicking.

TeCoolMage3 votes

You can't jump out if you eat Morgana's binding to the face for example.

But with Annie you can't jump out at all.

The fact Ekko gets a tool to escape at all is what makes him being harder mechanically a justified decision

Roaranor2 votes

You are right in that every champion requires decision making.

The point he is trying to make is that the mechanical champs tend to be more forgiving when it comes to decision making because of their kits.

Let's take LeBlanc and Ashe for example. You going to ward in the enemy jungle, but you have no wards in the area, information about the enemy jg's wherabouts, or flash. This is probably a bad idea. You get caught in 1 v 3.

  • If you are playing Leblanc and have the mechanical skill then there is a chance you can still get away by double dashing over a wall or juking.
  • If you are playing Ashe, you're probably dead.

You can replace Leblanc with Zed, Yasuo, Lee, most champions that are considered mechanically intense; and you can replace Ashe as well. The former group will often times have windows of opportunity granted by their kits if they have the mechanical skills to execute it, while the latter probably will not (as much). This adds to the weight of the decision making for the latter group in that their fundamental decision making matters more.

EDIT: A better example might be Blitz vs Thresh. Thresh's kit allows him a lot more usefulness if messes up his hook. He still has flay, lantern, and his ult. His power is spread throughout his kit, but he requires some degree of mechanics to access all of that power (Using QW to pull you over one wall and your ally over two, flaying the minion wave for a surprise pull, etc). Blitz doesn't exactly have that. An enormous part of his kit's power in invested in a single, simple ability and whether or not and/or how he uses it can make or break it for him (and his team!)

CookyPrince2 votes

Yeah I didn't understand the post at all

TheBigfoot2 votes

An example would be Annie vs. Yasuo. Annie has a fantastic possible 5-man stun, but one that requires cycling through spells and holding it until the right moment. The CD and circumstances to hit the game-changing flash-tibbers are long enough that while it is not necessarily a difficult shot to land, the fact that you had it up at the right time shows patience and foresight.

Yasuo, on the other hand, has a potential 5-man knockup/extra hangtime on a very short cooldown for the utility (I believe 23s at max rank). Unlike Annie, this one is hard to hit more than one person with, and as such there are more opportunities to do so. Yasuo, as a more mechanically focused champion, is more reliant on landing a skillshot, and rarely has to hold anything like Annie does.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

CookyPrince2 votes

His knockup can also be a targeted with his dash knockup

Head Connoisseur11 votes

I agree with your point, but a better experiment would be to put Annie Bot against another challenger/master/high diamond player who doesn't play annie. Since being bronze has more to do with being bad at league in general than champ mechanics specifically, this actually levels the playing field so to speak.

Romtheguy3 votes

^ This sounds great!

Tormentula7 votes

To be fair, you could have a bronze mechanically perfect like a diamond but a diamond will always be diamond due to better decision making and objective control. They may win a 1v1 matchup due to knowing their damage output at a certain level but its not as simple as saying "there is no such thing as a low skill cap champion".

There are plenty of mechanically skillless champions, whether you do the important things (grouping, objectives, CS, TP plays, not overextending, blah blah) is what differs. You can be a level 7 bronze annie but lose to a diamond first time annie even if you win lane strictly based on them just knowing how to play it out better then you know how to close a game.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Estimating exact damages and knowing exactly when to use your abilities are skills. If the diamond Annie wins a 1v1 it's because they are more skilled at utilizing their champion. Didn't say there was no low skill cap champions.

Tormentula5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MsAEOXLs,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-11-05T16:45:28.436+0000)

Estimating exact damages and knowing exactly when to use your abilities are skills. If the diamond Annie wins a 1v1 it's because they are more skilled at utilizing their champion. Didn't say there was no low skill cap champions.

That's a skill on league of legends, not a skill on Annie . Damage calculations are indeed a skill for that champion, but unlike champions like liss or malzahar, those calculations are almost unneeded for champions that just faceroll and usually always kill. This is why first time players can still beat level 7s, they really don't need much knowledge of the champion to succeed.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

If a player, can utilize Annie's kit better than another. And can play her better than another. And can estimate damages better and when to use abilities better. They are more skilled with Annie than the other player. It is as simple as that.

Penns7 votes

If someone says 0 skill, he most likely means mechanical skill. The difference between a bronze and a diamond Garen main is knowledge and stuff like that. But mechanically theres gonna be almost no difference. Thats why I dont like the phrase "x isnt a "noob champ" you have to know when to go in xd".

Mira Arya Enthe5 votes

Well good thing Mobas are based on strategy games and are primarily about objectives and stats with mechanics only being a factor in overcoming enemy champions. Knowing how much damage abilities are going to do based on items on the fly, and knowing exactly when and how to use your abilities, are skills. Not mechanical, but skills.

Penns4 votes

Exactly but that doesnt stop people from saying Annie is a "no skill champ" after she oneshots them with a point and click/instant aoe stun.

Mira Arya Enthe5 votes

They can say it all they want. Nobody is stopping them. But just because a champion doesn't have Azir's skill floor, doesn't mean they do not require skill, or that they cannot be improved on with practice and study.

Cowseed6 votes

This post takes 0 skill to write. http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/39/391d67720536c4ef6fc5922694abbfc2c438d34fa6f5534ec70483cf30cc0a29.jpg

Brenticus126 votes

This post is pretty retarded lol

There's like close to no difference between what you will do as a low tier Annie player and a high tier Annie player.

You're comparing a bronze player to a challenger player. When you're at Bronze you have problems with understanding the game at its most basic, fundamental level. Even Diamond to Challenger isn't a fair comparison considering how much of a difference the macro play between the two are.

If you want a fair comparison, compare a challenger Annie main (Annie bot, really) to a challenger non-Annie main. Sure there might be one or two times when Annie Bot is going to do something way out of there, but otherwise what the two players will do is generally going to be the same.

Now compare a challenger Yasuo main to a challenger non-Yasuo main and there's going to be a HUUUUUGE difference in what either of them are going to do. The challenger Yasuo main is going to do things that the non-yasuo main wouldn't have even thought of trying to do. Not just that, the non-yasuo main isn't even going to survive some matchups while the Yasuo main might even find ways to beat them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMgTVfsgFN8

Do you really think Faker would lose to Annie bot when he's playing a good Matchup? Do you think a non-yasuo main is going to survive, let alone win, against a Malzahar that knows what he's doing?

Handy Sandy 5 votes

yes

Yooba5 votes

I mean, I have 0 games on annie this season but I can play her as effectively as anyone who mains her because it takes zero skill to play her. Got it?

Mira Arya Enthe38 votes

No, because you are full of it. Name checks out though.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo18 votes

RAWR !! those fangs are showing babe lol

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Yooba4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MsAEOXLs,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-11-05T16:41:17.020+0000)

No, because you are full of it. Name checks out though.

Name checks out yeah well I'm diamond and you're silver so stay low you garbage player

President Swa1n3 votes

Yeah, you got to diamond with your no skill champion.

EDIT: That was supposed to be a joke about how he played 'no skill' Annie and is in Diamond. I messed up.

Yooba3 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, you got to diamond with your no skill champion.

Played many champions actually I'm not a one trick. Nice try though. How is life in silver 4?

fisox5 votes

unskilled > diamond

get a life

inplane4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MsAEOXLs,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-11-05T16:41:17.020+0000)

No, because you are full of it. Name checks out though.

He's only a child. Go easy on him man.

Ralanr12 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqQ3x3XJe5A

It is entirely possible to fuck up royal on Annie.

FastAsHeck5 votes

I see trinimmortal I upvote

inplane2 votes

{quoted}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqQ3x3XJe5A

It is entirely possible to fuck up royal on Annie.

Seems like people are still arguing. I'll just Quote this guy who posted a wonderful example.

Extremely funny video btw. Never realized how hilarious Trinimmortal is lol.

Mimy4 votes

People say this when they're losing on a harder champion.

So I tell them they should play an easier champion that is of their skill level.

:p

Mira Arya Enthe4 votes

I love beating LeeSin on Shyvana hearing him complain my champion is "Easy" and I always say "At least I know my limits :)"

Mimy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MsAEOXLs,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2016-11-05T17:00:45.651+0000)

I love beating LeeSin on Shyvana hearing him complain my champion is "Easy" and I always say "At least I know my limits :)"

Thinking about maining twitch for adc.. He's a little harder but I think I could get to be okay as him.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

He is a solid ADC, and his dialogue is funny x)

I'd wait and see how the stealth changes play out personally, but heck, go for it if you want.

Mimy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MsAEOXLs,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-05T17:06:44.814+0000)

He is a solid ADC, and his dialogue is funny x)

I'd wait and see how the stealth changes play out personally, but heck, go for it if you want.

I main Teemo right now. But I can't take him adc. At least I have not yet found a way to....

So I want an adc that's like him... Hehe.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

I was in the same boat a year ago, I loved playing Teemo top for the fun of it. My ADC was Ashe, picked up twitch because he was a poison stealth guy like Teemo. Obviously the game play is quite different, but it is fun.

Divewing4 votes

Not saying you're wrong, but the argument is inherently flawed in that it assumes that the only distinguishing difference between a bronze 5 and a diamond+ player is champion skill...

Big Lincoln2 votes

there is a difference between the two players fundamentally

this is a weird argument

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

In a 1v1, if the champion literally didn't have skill growth, then the skill of the two players wouldn't matter at all. It would always be 50% win rate over many iterations.

Big Lincoln5 votes

basic game mechanics come into play here as well. bronze 5 doesn't know how to position, when to go in, when to back up, how to farm better, how to control the wave

this is basically a non-argument because Annie is one of the most straightforward champions in the game. there really isn't any skill ceiling to her, much like Garen; it comes down to the player's mechanics

Mira Arya Enthe4 votes

If a player, can utilize Annie's kit better than another. And can play her better than another. And can estimate damages better and when to use abilities better. They have more skill on Annie, than the other player. It is as simple as that. Pong is very straight forward. If you beat me at pong, you have more skill at pong.

TyroneWatermelon2 votes

League takes no skill overall. However comparing between an expirienced player and a beginner player is like comparing an expirienced five nights at freddy's player and a beginner.

Mira Arya Enthe11 votes

Name checks out.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Mira Arya Enthe

People who think Voice Coms will improve League
Gameplay354 comments
329
votes
Why Jhin should be gutted
Memes & Games73 comments
305
votes
Has anybody else just, ceased getting excited for new champions?
Gameplay435 comments
244
votes
"Counterplay"
Gameplay218 comments
232
votes
Some people actually enjoy simple kits...
Gameplay289 comments
229
votes
I genuinely feel bad for any nice people who main...
Gameplay414 comments
188
votes