I like the Magus Enchant change on the PBE, when's Devourer's turn?

Maikal··27 votes·1,824 views
  • Devourer got thrown under the nerf bus during the op warwick/challenging smite era. But both of those have been brought in line. So when will devourer get some love?

  • I personally thought that 40 stacks was fine outside of warwick. People were actually playing devourer junglers, and they weren't overbearing/dominating solo queue or competitive. In fact Fiddlesticks, Pantheon, and Jarvan IV were king back then.

  • However I think that the whole concept of devourer kind of sucks, it discourages aiding your team outside of free kills (Free stacks). It provides virtually no pressure early unless you get a really nice counter gank somehow (although you should be farming).

  • Almost every champion that used/was meant to use devourer goes cinderhulk, magus (Kayle), or warrior now instead, and even still they're not really seen in most of my games since they're inferior with champions that were meant to synergize with the other jungle enchants.

  • It's pretty obvious devourer is in an awful spot right now. It can't really move away from being on-hit towards being attack speed - crit focused, because it'd synergize on so few champions (Master Yi/Tryndamere, unless marksman start jungling). And it can't really be removed without addressing the issue that so many champions that are meant to use it will still be left in a bad spot.

  • The only thing that I could think of to put devourer in a better spot that erases it's poor design concept of power farming, would be to change it to deal X% increased damage for each successive hit on a target (Think black cleaver, but instead of armour shred, it only affects you and it benefits all sources of damage, as well as only procing on auto attacks).

  • How do you guys think devourer should be rebalanced? Should it keep it's concept of stacking and start with more stacks or get more stacks/camp? Should it allow X% increased damage from all sources (Only affects you) on each successive hit like I suggested? Or something else?

EDIT:

{quoted}

Personally I'd like to see the stacking on CS functionality removed. Farming the jungle should be rewarding enough for players to at least want to do it some of the time for gold and EXP (I believe it is) if you need to inflate the value of farming artificially it's a problem with the rewards for farming the jungle.

I'd go with something along the lines of Jungle Item + item 1043 + 300 gold +50% AS Unique Passive: Auto attacks deal 25+(1.5*level) magic damage and build a stack of Frostblade. auto attacking at 4 stacks of Frostblade causes you to consume all stacks to deal triple normal passive damage and slow the enemy by 50% for 1 second.

This item provides a passive that the mostly CC lacking Devourer junglers can utilise while still filling the same niche as Devourer and not becoming a 'super Frozen Mallet'.

31 Comments

Only Play Darius9 votes

It will have it's turn when Warwick gets the rework desparately he needs.

Sorry, but it only takes one champion to have obnoxious synergy with an item/stat to ruin it for everyone else.

You can blame Vladimir Mordekaiser Akali Katarina for ruining spellvamp while you're at it.

Maikal1 votes

Yeah but he won't be seeing his rework until 2017 so I've heard. Which is why devourer could be just completely reworked (since it's concept is kind of bad in the first place and doesn't promote a nice play style) and have a ramping up % increased damage on hit instead that only benefits you and applies on each auto attack. This way warwick doesn't press R and instantly deal a ton of increased damage, but rather it'd start being really noticeable post-ultimate when he can be kited.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Udyr R.I.P. Innervating Locket

LankPants3 votes

WW's the most worthless hunk of crap in the game at the moment. You can buff up his items, he ain't coming back and honestly if he does you can just nerf him back into obscurity again. It's better than leaving Shyvana /Nocturne /MasterYi ect. worthless because of something that used to exist.

Silents4296 votes

I fucking called it for the new stats.

I SAID when a new item to replace Magus comes it would have less AP half the CDR and some mana, and EVERYONE downvoted me telling me how bad it was, now we are going to get praise threads about these changes soon.

Sorry I vented a bit.

Anyway my opinion on the devourer is that it encourages a playstyle on the champions who shouldn't have that playstyle. AA junglers aren't suppose to be farming and giving them damage that requires them to is just stupid, I think they should simplify the item by giving it a base magic on hit effect and some attack speed.

Aych Pii1 votes

I think there's a big misinterpretatoin about the purpose of devourer. It's supposed to encourage map presence, being involved in every kill as that's the best way to build a lot of stacks. Note that it's most popular on champions like Shyvana, Udyr, Yi, and Nocturne, half of whom are great map control junglers and the other half of whom have fantastic ganking presence due to their ultimates. I imagine you mostly get stacks from farming so it's not a feast or famine item, which would be unfortunate.

WarlockLaw1 votes

See this is why I still build devour when I play yi and the likes. Honestly they just need to encourage ganking more than it currently does. What if a camp gives one stack an assist gives two and kills give three, possibly lower the base stacks again depending how easy it is to stack this way. That would encourage more ganks as it would farm much faster that way without making warwick instantly overbearing again

Maikal1 votes

While encouraging ganking is good, you have to take into account that as is, the base stats of devourer are awful early, and you have very little gank pressure compared to most junglers. Especially on master yi who has 0 cc. Encouraging ganking means nothing if you aren't given the tools to have a successful gank, as very few devourer junglers have outside of udyr, warwick post 6 (and only when he has ult), and Aatrox (who no one plays because he's too weak). Lowering the base stats even more only creates more of a problem.

WarlockLaw1 votes

That's fair, but the goal was to put risk/reward for a gank. Make it successful and it was more worth your time than raptors, fail it and now you are behind

LankPants2 votes

Personally I'd like to see the stacking on CS functionality removed. Farming the jungle should be rewarding enough for players to at least want to do it some of the time for gold and EXP (I believe it is) if you need to inflate the value of farming artificially it's a problem with the rewards for farming the jungle.

I'd go with something along the lines of

Frostblade Jungle Item + item 1043 + 300 gold +50% AS Unique Passive: Auto attacks deal 25+(1.5*level) magic damage and build a stack of Frostblade. auto attacking at 4 stacks of Frostblade causes you to consume all stacks to deal triple normal passive damage and slow the enemy by 50% for 1 second.

This item provides a passive that the mostly CC lacking Devourer junglers can utilise while still filling the same niche as Devourer and not becoming a 'super Frozen Mallet'.

Maikal1 votes

Yeah most devourer junglers do lack the cc necessary to have gank/map pressure, I actually like this idea, it also removes the stacking mechanic. It averages out to 62.5 magic damage on hit at level 18 taking into consideration the passive, but the factor of it having a burst of magic damage at that 5th hit combined with the utility probably gives reason to keep it in your build rather than sell it late game.

Rebonack2 votes

Remove the stack mechanic.

Give it Bloodrazor's old passive. Maybe make it heal off damaging monsters.

Suddenly it is, uncontested, the best objective control option of the four items. It now scales though the game without afk-farming.

Done and done.

Maikal1 votes

I just looked that item up, I haven't been playing that long XD 4% max health as magic damage on hit seems so broken. Lol. That would make warwick disgusting, 20% max health as damage on his ult lol. Maybe if it was current health or missing health, but even still.

Tis a nice day2 votes

BotRK is 8% current health, although it's in physical damage.

DoFr1 votes

current health, you already have BoTrK

missing health, look at AD Fizz and how much of a problem was he with BoTrk and his current+missing health combo on each hit

Maikal1 votes

AD Fizz was broken b/c 8% missing health + 8% current health = 8% max health, so since this would be 4% of either missing or current health, it'd be less of a problem (although I still think it'd be overpowered)

Earl Eulrich1 votes

you could even sorta keep the stacking thing by making it upgrade itself at champ lvl 11 or sth, still wouldn´t encourage powerfarming over ganking, but keep the identity of being a little less early pressure as trade of for a more powerfull lategame.

or they could make a wriggles out of it yet again, combining farming and vision control.

Erockandroll1 votes

The only thing Devourer needs is to rework it's stacking passive so it isn't reliant of the AFK farming that Riot has repeatedly said was problematic. I was thinking something that rewarded stack similar to the conservation stacks on the Sprite stone items. (have a few stack, kill a large monster, and get the bonus damage, go gank lane and come back later.)

p.s. I would avoid making it crit focused. A lot of Auto attacker rely on their autos for damage/sustain (like warwick) It would also narrow the item into helping AS Assassins and carries, and not AS Bruisers.

Maikal1 votes

I think that making it have a conservation kind of thing is problematic if it's left at 25 stacks base, because it's really hard to pressure early with such a weak item in comparison to the other enchants. Plus basically every champion that uses/was meant to use devourer has extremely weak ganks pre 6 except Udyr/Aatrox (Most have no cc/meh gap closers) And yeah I agreed that it can't move towards being crit focused, it'd only really synergize with Yi/Tryndamere.

Migrañaboy1 votes

The controversial AFK farming item. It's really unlikely that they will modify it until s6 IMO.

I'd like good buffs to the poachers knife though, like a long distance warding jungle camp debuff. :B

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

Even jungling marksmen (with the exception of bruiser Vayne ) favour Warrior over Devourer now, and even MasterYi /Tryndamere have been seen running warrior because the AD actually crits (not to mention yi with ghostblade and warrior ganks twice as often with his ult on a ~60s cd at level 1)

Devourer got gutted, and will stay that way until Warwick is fixed.

Anonagon1 votes

Honestly if they want to make Devourer good, while not going back to the days of Feral Flare Udyr, they need to make it get extra stacks for kills. Currently its 2 - make it at least 3, maybe even 4. Any higher might get into insane hyper-snowballing territory since it would basically be a Sword of the Occult that can't be shut down, but of course unlike SOTO, Devourer can't lifesteal or crit, so it wouldn't be as bad.

I also feel like Devourer really should give some sort of sustain - if you think about a typical "lategame carry" build, you probably think of something like this: item 3031 item 3006 item 3035 item 3072 item 3046 item 3102 - Devourer can't really replace anything in that build, except if you are Yi, in which case Devourer + Challenging + Wuju Style is enough for you to forego Last Whisper. If Devourer were giving some sort of sustain, whether directly connected to the on-hit or not, it would let it replace the "lifesteal item" in a carry build.

Slamurai Jack1 votes

I build devourer most games on Jungle Shyvana now. Seems to work fine. Also a strong item on Kayle Jungle as well. I can easily break 100 stacks on both champs in a decently long game while still helping my team.

Partholonian1 votes

Remove or nerf the stacking mechanic and give it a decent power spike on build. Junglers need early to mid game power to fulfill their role on the team; the concept of a hypercarry jungler just doesn't work and Riot won't allow it to work because a jungler can't be focused on and held down in the laning phase. And if you can't come out of the jungle at 30 min ready to instagib some fools, then it wasn't worth being in there that long while your lanes suffered with no jungle pressure in the first place.

Time investment items like item 3070 item 3027 have their place in the game, but they can't really work on junglers. Even if you got the extra power without specifically requiring a lot of farming, you'd still be getting it too late.

On hitting is fine and works well with AS, but if they're still concerned about "hit X times in under a second" abilities like WW/Fiora ults, they could split it into some damage on hit and some Elder Lizard-style DoT.

Only Play Darius1 votes

{quoted}

; the concept of a hypercarry jungler just doesn't work and Riot won't allow it to work

MasterYi

Aych Pii1 votes

I like Devourer as is, lots of junglers love the attack speed and magic damage plus it encourages counterjungling a lot. It makes farming feel more worthwhile, really, and synergizes well with champions like Shyvana and Udyr who already have amazing clear times and synergize really well with attack speed, allowing them to quickly clear camps and exert lane pressure or counterjungle while their jungle is empty.

RottedApples1 votes

It's not like Warwick was even THAT bad. People just didn't understand that you had to cc him out of ult. >.>

I mean yes he was a bit op and some nerfs were needed but still.

Maikal1 votes

His ult did ~ 1000 - 1200 + damage. It was bad. And you can't just cc him in skirmishes or ganks, because either you're alone in lane and get ulted, you're the only one with reliable cc to take him out of ult in a 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 skirmish and he ults you, etc. Plus he could just kill the people with cc first and force them to use cc and then ult and regen all the health he lost. Not to mention he was the #1 strongest duellist in the game, surpassing even tryndamere because skirmisher's sabre was also bugged, so that the true damage ignored invulnerability. Even with a QSS the damage still goes through, so you'd have to like, disjoint his ult with next level timing/predicting on a master Yi alpha strike or a shaco ult. He was broken. Devourer nerf was overkill though.

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