Remove 'none' as a ban option.

Dope Solo·Dec 14, 2018·72 votes·15,933 views

title.

116 Comments

Around999PeopleDec 14, 201841 votes

If someone doesn't want to ban a champ they should ask the team or ban counters to their teams champs. Anytime someone actually picks none I can't help but just assume they're going to troll somehow because they're not trying to improve their chances of winning by banning their counter

SwiftKitten88Dec 14, 201817 votes

{quoted}

If someone doesn't want to ban a champ they should ask the team or ban counters to their teams champs. Anytime someone actually picks none I can't help but just assume they're going to troll somehow because they're not trying to improve their chances of winning by banning their counter

yeah.. this pissed me off to no end... if i see someone ban none without even ASKING if i would like another champ banned i sometimes just dodge myself because i dont want to play with a players that insistent on refusing to work as a team.

this is a TEAM game.. i can 100% guarantee you that ONE of the other four players would LOVE to have a 2nd ban option u can ban for them.

you are being an ass if u choose "none".

TerozuDec 14, 201811 votes

why dont you just ask them to ban someone?

Not offering their ban to you isnt refusing to work as a team. Leaving because you don't like someones actions actually is.

Velzard of KozDec 14, 20188 votes

Because you cannot know If they don't want to ban something else theirself and just hasn't decided. The one who doesn't want to ban anything could just ask "Anyone wanna my ban?" but I suppose that makes too much sense to someone who thinks leaving seemingly uncooperative guy is sign of uncooperativity.

TerozuDec 14, 20187 votes

Yeah 90% of the time(arbitrary number) noone will answer.

So no it doesn't make 'too much' sense.

y0r1ckDec 15, 20181 votes

So then you can just ban none. I still don't see the issue with asking.

TerozuDec 15, 20181 votes

And I equally dont see whats wrong with asking them ban someone for you.

This can go both ways for as long as you want.

y0r1ckDec 15, 20181 votes

There's a pretty obvious issue with asking someone to ban something for you. How do you know somebody is planning to ban none? What if someone locks in none in the first second of ban phase?

When I'm first pick I ask people to ban stuff for me, but there's no way I know who is going to ban none. So I have to ask before ban phase.

When I'm last pick I almost always ask people if they want anything banned. Sometimes they respond and sometimes they don't, but I don't lose anything either way.

You say 90% of the time people don't respond in time, but is that really a problem to the point where you'll just ban none without asking? It isn't to me.

True GarenDec 15, 20183 votes

So, one idea might be to prepare a line of text and keep it on "copy" to paste as soon as soon as one enters champion select. Something to the effect of "if you are planning on not banning anybody, then would you mind please banning xxx?"

SwiftKitten88Dec 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Yeah 90% of the time(arbitrary number) noone will answer.

So no it doesn't make 'too much' sense.

and if no one answers during the entire ban phase and the timer runs out then sure...

but at least do the courtesy of ASKING

don't just fucking "insta-ban NONE"

i have literally NEVER ONCE heard anyone ask if they wanted somone ban... get once every 3 games i get a fucking moron who bans none. and the enemy teams picks a champ that i would have been my 2nd ban choice banned if i had another option.

and all they had to do was ask.

aezensDec 16, 20182 votes

This discussion is absolutely pointless. Chat is aviable right after entering the lobby ban phase is not. So if you want a possible 2nd ban you can ask. A lot of people actually do this but if no one asks me for a specific ban until ban phase I´d assume no one cares as well.

If you want something from someone else it´s not his obligation to ask you.

SwiftKitten88Dec 15, 20183 votes

{quoted}

why dont you just ask them to ban someone?

Not offering their ban to you isnt refusing to work as a team. Leaving because you don't like someones actions actually is.

Not acting like a team player is indeed "not working as a team" if u see someone tied to a train tracks and a train coming a mile away..

and u stay there like.. hmm i could easily go and pull them off the tracks... save their life... but no... i dont care.

just because u "did nothing" doesn't mean that what u did is at all acceptable.

it doesn't mean that if the person parents saw a video of u standing there they wouldn't bash your head in with a crowbar for not attempting to save their child

letting harm come to others and standing on the "sidelines" and watching.. IS almost as bad as doing that act yourself.

now maybe 9/10 people u see like they are being trained by Houdini. maybe they can easily get out... maybe if you offer to help them they will say... "na... i got this"

but all u got to do is ask.

No Chat SystemDec 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Not acting like a team player is indeed "not working as a team" if u see someone tied to a train tracks and a train coming a mile away..

and u stay there like.. hmm i could easily go and pull them off the tracks... save their life... but no... i dont care.

just because u "did nothing" doesn't mean that what u did is at all acceptable.

it doesn't mean that if the person parents saw a video of u standing there they wouldn't bash your head in with a crowbar for not attempting to save their child

letting harm come to others and standing on the "sidelines" and watching.. IS almost as bad as doing that act yourself.

now maybe 9/10 people u see like they are being trained by Houdini. maybe they can easily get out... maybe if you offer to help them they will say... "na... i got this"

but all u got to do is ask.

You just compared saving a life to banning a champion on team select in a video game. The offended generation speaks again.

True GarenDec 20, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=No Chat System,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MhJujGv0,comment-id=00010000000000010000,timestamp=2018-12-15T20:36:02.322+0000)

You just compared saving a life to banning a champion on team select in a video game. The offended generation speaks again.

The comparison has already been made on numerous sweatshirts and tees.

Tahminatrix Dec 14, 20184 votes

"we don't believe in counterpicks" -riot staff

Joking aside, ya your team is basically at a disadvantage if its not abusing the ban system to its fullest extent and the enemy team is.

TulareDec 14, 201812 votes

Do you want to revert to when failing to pick a champion to ban resulted in everybody getting booted back to queue?

DracocrashDec 14, 201835 votes

{quoted}

Do you want to revert to when failing to pick a champion to ban resulted in everybody getting booted back to queue?

Kinda deserve it if you aren't banning anything

TulareDec 14, 20182 votes

What about the other 9 people in the game?

DracocrashDec 14, 201824 votes

{quoted}

What about the other 9 people in the game?

They get saved from being paired up with a team-mate who couldn't take the time to ban a champ first 45s of champ select.

And OP is referring to the None OPTION, not the default none that you get if you fail to ban anything.

Dope SoloDec 14, 20184 votes

yes.

The TrentDec 14, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Do you want to revert to when failing to pick a champion to ban resulted in everybody getting booted back to queue?

Honestly, people who don't pay attention in que often fail to pay attention when the game starts too... Then they die to the invade...

RebeccaUCuberDec 15, 20183 votes

Just let the system ban a random champion at that point (not prepicked ofc)

CruelscottyDec 14, 20188 votes

So, if someone wants to ban none, then they ban someone with a low pick rate then? I don't think that removing the none option will prevent people from banning none because instead of a none ban, they can still ban someone with no pick rate (i.e. Volibear, Kalista, Amumu, etc.)

flibitydooDec 14, 20182 votes

Most people that want to burn a ban (that I've observed on streams) tend to just ban alphabetically based on the list of champions. So usually it's aatrox. or akali.

wolviusDec 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Most people that want to burn a ban (that I've observed on streams) tend to just ban alphabetically based on the list of champions. So usually it's aatrox. or akali.

Exactly even faker at times has just banned garen because in Korean he is first alphabetically.

SnowdriftDec 15, 20187 votes

I’ve had games where three of my teammates have chosen to ban nobody but then they pick something risky and then complain they got counter picked and now need help. Or they ban nobody and I ask why and get responses like “cuz I ain’t no bitch” that’s nice and all but some champs are obnoxious to play against and you could at least ban something for someone else.

Noor SakataDec 15, 20185 votes

Those 23 Fakers we have who downvoted this tho ..

Packun FlowerDec 15, 20185 votes

Players who use the "none" ban are total asshats.

If you don't want to use your ban offer it to your team, ask for a suggestion, dont just throw it away especially in a meta where bans are so valuable. don't just throw away a ban because you think you are "to good for that"

ZackTheWaffleManDec 14, 20184 votes

instead of none, it should be "random champion that isn't being hovered by any of your teammates," but this doesn't seem likely

wolviusDec 14, 20183 votes

Yeah good idea everyone have them ask their teammates who to ban when loads of people won't reply or reply so late that it's too late to look for that champ and just random click not to dodge, rip if it's an allies.

All this would achieve is anyone who doesn't declare their champ before bans more likely to see theirs banned randomly. Didn't faker for a while ban garen because alphabetically he is the first champion and didn't care who to ban.

(Garden autocorreted to harem lol)

y0r1ckDec 15, 20182 votes

Faker might have, and maybe faker was wrong to do that. It doesn't take much to ask if anyone wants you to ban something. If nobody answers, fine ban nothing or whatever. If somebody does answer, then congrats that person probably trusts you a little more.

True GarenDec 15, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Yeah good idea everyone have them ask their teammates who to ban when loads of people won't reply or reply so late that it's too late to look for that champ and just random click not to dodge, rip if it's an allies.

All this would achieve is anyone who doesn't declare their champ before bans more likely to see theirs banned randomly. Didn't faker for a while ban garen because alphabetically he is the first champion and didn't care who to ban.

(Garden autocorreted to harem lol)

I thought that he banned Garen as a way of showing off. Nobody is playing Garen in Faker's mmr, usually.

omegahealsDec 15, 20183 votes

Here's an idea: Let's say Player 1 bans Akali , but Player 2 would've banned Akali , and didn't want to ban anybody else. Then Player 2 could also choose Akali , and give Player 1 another chance to ban a hero. Or make the banning period a bit longer, so we can communicate about who else our team would want to ban. Because right now, 70% of my games are like:

♪ I'll ban Akali ♪ ♪ I already banned Akali ♪ ♪ What about Irelia ? ♪ ♪ I've already banned Irelia ♪

foristDec 15, 20183 votes

I'd rather they keep the option. A lot of players, myself included, have had issues ever since the client was force updated. I don't want to be automatically kicked from a lobby just because the client is glitching out during banning phase.

In fact, the "ban nothing feature" is one of the very few things I commend riot for adding to champion select. That and the "automatic switching a summoner to smite when receiving the jungle role feature" they added are two of the best qol changes we've had to match lobbies in recent seasons.

Around999PeopleDec 15, 20185 votes

The issue isnt if someone lags out, an automatic no ban there is fine. What's tilting is when someone actively chooses not to ban

JanakinDec 15, 20183 votes

Replace "None" with "Give up your ban"

An Actual GhostDec 16, 20183 votes

You don't have to agree, but not banning is a strategy and I always do it. For context, here's a short comical video on game theory, showing how intentionally in-acting can be the best option:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgWRFX6Wj8k&t=152s

For league, there is always a handful of flavor of "meta/op/flavor of the month" champs. You can personally use your ban to eliminate a matchup you personally struggle against. However, I prefer to give my team the best chance at picking the best champions. So if the "meta op" champion pool is less eliminated, we will be guaranteed a chance to pick something from that pool.

Again, you don't have to agree and maybe some people are just lazy. But I do this on purpose with a solid argument from game theory.

Dope SoloDec 16, 20182 votes

Its not going to hurt your midlaner, jg, sup or top lane if you"re playing adc and opt to ban Jhin.

TerchioDec 15, 20182 votes

I don't ban because I'm not here to pick my opponents' champions. I'm supposed to work with what they've decided to take against me. I don't expect anybody to follow suit, but I also don't enjoy that playstyle.

My enemy should not be forced to pick their second-best (by luck) just because their best isn't favorable for me. I'm supposed to work my way around the pick. I'm supposed to team up and figure a composition to beat it.

I don't expect people to enjoy my bans. But it's also not their ban. I can make it their ban, and I used to before the new banning system. However, all I get are teammates who flame the non-banner instead of contributing. It gets old.

I'm not that kid who says he ain't playing anymore because I'm facing another Yasuo. My bans reflect that.

And finally, bans only contribute to skewed stats nobody can agree on in the first place. You have champions banned in 60%+ games, and expect to get legitimate stats on their health through it. These champions are then balanced around said power vision. It's allowed some of the worst balance choices in the game to happen. Not to say my little non-ban will really turn anybody into a believer, but I'm not inclined to contribute.

the weeabooDec 15, 20184 votes

My enemy should not be forced to pick their second-best (by luck) just because their best isn't favorable for me. I'm supposed to work my way around the pick. I'm supposed to team up and figure a composition to beat it.

No you're SUPPOSED to do whatever you can to help your team win. Using your ban is increasing your odds of your team not getting shit on by a champion that counters you or them, regardless if you, Mr.Badass, think you can play around them. And based on your track record of going on-hit/tank, fleet footwork, flashless Elise, your team's are going to need every advantage they can get...

TerchioDec 16, 20182 votes

And this is the problem. People who aren't playing to have fun anymore. Sure, we're trying to win games here, but shitting on a player who has a winning ratio with an unusual strat is disheartening to hear.

You forgot to mention I don't use Flash, either. Ever.

Teams should not need to cherry pick 5 champions out of 142 to make a winning strategy. It also skews statistics very badly and gets champions like Vayne and Irelia 3 AD/5 MS nerfs, (or even obscene buffs). I don't support the banning playstyle in any way, but I'm not going to outright hate on it. I can't say I didn't expect intolerance on such a thread, though.

Ozzie StormDec 16, 20182 votes

Normals and ranked are 2 ditsinct gamemodes with 2 ifferent queues for a reason. Want to have careless fun? Normals are there for ya. Wanna ply ranked then not givng your all and trying to get the best advantage to win is a selfish trolling move.

XereniakDec 17, 20182 votes

I'm amazed by the negativity toward your comment here, I never realized other players felt so strongly about this. I'm like you to an extent and don't use my ban on the popular options, but if I ban at all, it's because I feel that facing that champion impedes my ability to learn from the game. Which is rare, I like to face and learn from all champions, and I don't think there is reasonable impetus for me to change that approach until I near diamond, where meta picks are harder to outplay and I'll have learned most matchups by that time. I'm particularly opposed to any and all "ban this new champion" mentalities, because they're the most important Champs to learn to defeat at that time.

True GarenDec 15, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I don't ban because I'm not here to pick my opponents' champions. I'm supposed to work with what they've decided to take against me. I don't expect anybody to follow suit, but I also don't enjoy that playstyle.

My enemy should not be forced to pick their second-best (by luck) just because their best isn't favorable for me. I'm supposed to work my way around the pick. I'm supposed to team up and figure a composition to beat it.

I don't expect people to enjoy my bans. But it's also not their ban. I can make it their ban, and I used to before the new banning system. However, all I get are teammates who flame the non-banner instead of contributing. It gets old.

I'm not that kid who says he ain't playing anymore because I'm facing another Yasuo. My bans reflect that.

And finally, bans only contribute to skewed stats nobody can agree on in the first place. You have champions banned in 60%+ games, and expect to get legitimate stats on their health through it. These champions are then balanced around said power vision. It's allowed some of the worst balance choices in the game to happen. Not to say my little non-ban will really turn anybody into a believer, but I'm not inclined to contribute.

Yes, but the bans are there because the opponent who picks second has an advantage. The ban feature helps to minimize this advantage. The ban phase wasn't instituted because some champions should be permabanned - because really, if Riot did their job, then no champion would be permabanned. The ban is there so that you can ban the strongest counterpick to the champion that you intend to play (assuming that you are first).

It sounds like the system that you would prefer, would be "blind", or some version of "blind".

Arcane Blue BoiDec 15, 20182 votes

What about faker?

Ozzie StormDec 16, 20183 votes

when you reach the level faker have reached then you have all the right in the world to not ban anyone. Till then do what most people do and don't be selfish.

DeracadaVenomDec 15, 20182 votes

I would rather have my champ banned out from under me, whenever I can't think of a ban i ban a random champion that my team doesn't want hoping for tilt points

Cats Are FoodDec 16, 20182 votes

I generally never care what champions are in a matchup. Unless one has just come out and is busted, so I will ban it until it's nerfed.

That said, I always make sure to ban SOMETHING. I generally just ask myself what would annoy me to have to work around, so I tend to ban Yasuo by default. Namely because I never consistently get teams that can work around him, and he's a pain once he starts to snowball.

EleshakaiDec 15, 20181 votes

While I do see your point... it's logical that you'd think the person would simply ask if their team has anyone they want to ban...

but the people who ban none are often the trolls. So if you remove 'none', then they're just going to ban allies' hovered champs in stead...

SwiftKitten88Dec 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

While I do see your point... it's logical that you'd think the person would simply ask if their team has anyone they want to ban...

but the people who ban none are often the trolls. So if you remove 'none', then they're just going to ban allies' hovered champs in stead...

this is the first valid counter-argument i have seen...

then again.. trolls will be trolls, and IMO it still better to remove one trolling option even if it leaves them with another.

At least that's making progress in the right direction.

if riot didn't HAVE like 15 bans that are ban worthy this wouldn't really even be much of an issue.. the fact is they do...

and the fact if they NEED to be picked or banned out, otherwise the game is going to be shit.