Shoving heals into Darius and Fiora's kits feel like bad champ design.

DrNova·Sep 9, 2015·8 votes·1,387 views

Both of these champs when I've played against them seem unfair.

Its always a hard lane anyways. But multiple times I get a good moment and make an engage where I should win, and "Nope! Heals"

I could accept their new power but the heals are stupid. They were both shoved into kits that never had heals and makes zero sense thematically.

They are good without heals, why do they need this extra and unevcesary strength?

It feels lazy and forced. If you have to shove a heal into the champ to "make them viable" (which they did NOT need to be viable) then it would stand to reason its a shitty rework.

tl/dr: there is no good reason to shove uneccesary heals into Darius and fiora's kits

21 Comments

luckmallorySep 9, 20154 votes

What makes them unnecessary exactly? Maybe the numbers could be tweaked but i don't think they need to be removed.

Also, old Fiora had heals

DrNovaSep 10, 20151 votes

Just feels to me like they are unnecessary for how strong they are in lane.

And where did old fiora have a heal? I don't remember that

luckmallorySep 10, 20151 votes

Fiora's old passive healed her. Lifesteal passive. Not the heal she has now but it was automatic and she didnt have to kill someone for it. They nerfed a lot of her kit to give her that heal

ChargeItDownMidSep 9, 20154 votes

[deleted]

FadedpfSep 9, 20151 votes

Fiora can heal but rework that toxic ult dealing 50% + max hp true damage and healing everyone for double Janna's ult...

5 Stacks GGSep 9, 20152 votes

without the heal Darius would be trash tier and 30% winrate, also does renekton, nidalee, irelia, xin heal make "sense" nope so stop trying to nerf a champ just cuz u lose vs them, they are getting nerfed next patch stop complaining now ty.

FadedpfSep 9, 20152 votes

He had a fully functional kit and equally terrifying laning phase before the rework?

5 Stacks GGSep 9, 20152 votes

im not talking about old Darius kit...

FadedpfSep 9, 20152 votes

It doesnt matter. Old and new Darius are monsters in lane and are complete hell to fight if you are a melee champion. With or without a heal new Darius would be strong. But it is because of his heal he is getting a 70%+ ban rate and a 54% win rate.

LoLKiruSep 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It doesnt matter. Old and new Darius are monsters in lane and are complete hell to fight if you are a melee champion. With or without a heal new Darius would be strong. But it is because of his heal he is getting a 70%+ ban rate and a 54% win rate.

Darius doesn't have that ban rate because of his laning phase heal; he has it because of how absurd his heal gets later on when he can hit 1~2 people with it consistently and has a significant health pool; even with only 1 person, lets say he's at 50% of his 3k health (so he's at 1.5k missing health), 15% of that is 225, that increases to 450 if he hits 2 people; on a 3 second cooldown, with that number only increasing the lower his health gets, at 300 health remaining (10% of his max; 90% missing health); he heals for almost 405 per hit, per person; at 2 people thats 810 hp recovered.

Personally, I'd just make it a flat heal (the tricky part would be making it useful early, without making it overpowering late, you could easily tweak numbers though for that) E.g: 50/75/100/125/150 per person hit, caps out at 750 max possible heal if you're GOD and somehow hit all 5 people in a teamfight with the blade of your axe.

That all said, I'd definitely argue that his laning phase is somewhat weaker than before (since Q deals less damage overall after a certain point, and can be dodged now; albeit with slight difficulty), his teamfighting is definitely much better though; which I'm fine with since its supposed to be Darius' strong suit anyway, his endgame goal is getting those 5 man cleanup dunks.

FadedpfSep 10, 20151 votes

His laning phase heal is fine. But his laning phase AD steriod for getting 5 stacks in obnoxious, it pretty much forces you to not fight extending periods of time or else he gets a massive amount of AD. If you are a melee champion of course. And yeah his heal when hitting 2 or 3 people is the main reason he is so broken.

KoldheartedjspSep 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

His laning phase heal is fine. But his laning phase AD steriod for getting 5 stacks in obnoxious, it pretty much forces you to not fight extending periods of time or else he gets a massive amount of AD. If you are a melee champion of course. And yeah his heal when hitting 2 or 3 people is the main reason he is so broken.

wasn't that old darius anyway...

Short engages so he doesn't get much free damage off of passive

FadedpfSep 10, 20151 votes

Well now he has a bleed that will deal way more damage with his E passive and black cleaver shred and an AD steriod if you let him get 5 stacks. Pretty much old darius but much deadlier and with a heal

5 Stacks GGSep 10, 20151 votes

you're telling me you let Darius get 5 stacks on you in the lanning phase?

how?? are you afk or something?

5 Stacks GGSep 10, 20151 votes

the heal is getting tuned down next patch and also Darius is EASY af to lane against as a melee now

Learning momentSep 9, 20151 votes

both are overpowered and are going to be toned down hard in a patch or 2, the mechanics are good on fiora and darius its just they're new releases, give it a few patches.

Sightless66Sep 10, 20151 votes

But multiple times I get a good moment and make an engage where I should win, and "Nope! Heals"

This doesn't seem quite right. If you're having a good moment, you shouldn't have to deal with the heals. You can dodge the outer circle of the Darius Q to completely deny his heal, and Fiora's heal shouldn't proc unless she's getting all 4 hits on her ultimate (something that isn't hard to prevent her from doing).

They are good without heals

In their current states, no they wouldn't be. Both would be terrible without the heals. They're designed around it, and you are expected to play around it. It's perfectly possible to do so.

DrNovaSep 10, 20151 votes

As I play against them more I'm sure I will get used to it, haven't played against them much so is still new to me.

But still just feels awkward. Darius maybe less so, but Fiora I think would still be potent without that heal. She has some solid tricks up her sleve

ID x iKumaSep 10, 20151 votes

bronze player talking about balance

classic

DrNovaSep 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=ID x iKuma,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MhF6Ywe4,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-09-10T05:03:21.843+0000)

bronze player talking about balance

classic

Is that neccesary?

This is why the community is such shit, there is this cancerous tumor stuck on it that is incapable of being decent human beings.

I'm not talking about balance, I'm voicing my opinions about skillsets, and you come through with no intelligent discussion just trying to be rude for no reason? You have issues man.

GigahappytownSep 10, 20151 votes

darius is only good in extended fights which is why his kit allows him to make extended fights But to remove the heal and not gut him you would seriouisly need to buff his q damage passive damage/steriod or ult damage