Boards›Gameplay

Fizz Rework concept.

HongChongDong··2 votes·2,032 views

Feel free to skip straight to the abilities. This large block is ignorable if you don't want to read it.

Fizz has been a bad design since his inception. People say pre rework fizz was fine in terms of being good enough because he had significantly higher damage, but it was a horribly different meta where mages were free farm mid lane, they were alot less good defensive options, and things like AD's were guaranteed to die if they got hit with ult. It wasn't a healthy balance that a champion who was bad by design was left alone simply because he one shot everything. It wasn't fun for the community facing him either.

Since his rework his overall power has been tuned down and created various counterplay mechanics to every part of his kit. He still holds some power as a lane bully but quickly falls off late game due to a lack of power from his own kit, lack of itemization due to Riot not being sure how to implement AP assassin itemization without breaking Mages, and most importantly massive counterplay mechanics that leave very little or in most cases nothing for a Fizz to do to overcome the situation.

The general player might complain about fizz because they've had negative experiences with him being frustrating to play against, but the majority appear to agree that in a burst meta dominated by artificially tanky ADC's, Increasingly impactful and hard to punish Mage mid lanes, and everyone else and their grandmother stacking lethality items, that the AP assassins are abit lacking. Some like Ekko and Leblanc have mechanics that allow them to outplay the situation IF the player is very skilled (though they still suffer as well), others like Akali and Fizz are in the lower tier of assassins.

Either way, after playing Fizz for 2 years straight and seeing him through low elo, high elo, good to bad, fun to frustrating, I constantly end up thinking about how he could be changed to make him better. Now better could mean a large number of things in this context, but in this case It means I'm looking at issues with the champion from Fizz's perspective and presenting a rework concept that could possibly be good or possibly be bad. From my perspective and experience it seems like a starting point for a proper fizz rework but you're more than welcome to debate the issue and point out any flaws.

However I will state this. There is 1 major issue with reworking fizz and that's interaction. With his current iteration he displays too much interaction late game for his teamfights to go smoothly but it's basically fine during the laning phase. Depending on how you change him to fit late game teamfights it may leave little to no interaction for people during the laning phase which would probably further increase the average players frustration with him. I'm focusing on the latter of the 2 options.

Abilities

  • Passive: Seastone Wounds (Can't think of a better name)

    • Enemies hit by Fizz's Basic attacks, Chum the Waters and Urchin Strike are marked instantly for 6 seconds. Chum The Waters and Seastone Trident gain Magic Penetration towards marked enemy Champions, Resets the cooldown of Playful/Trickster and adds 1 charge of Urchin Strike, as well as additional effects for each ability. The mark is then consumed on use and will go on cooldown. Upon getting a champion kill or assist the total cooldown is reduced.

    • Magic Penetration: equal to a total of 5/10/15/20/25/30 Flat or Percentage magic pen depending on which ever is more effective vs the target, at levels 1/4/7/10/13/16. By more effective this means which ever equals the higher value. A target with 60 MR for example would take flat penetration because the Flat is higher than the percentage, but a target with over 100 MR would proc the percentage penetration.

    • Cooldown: 40/35/30/20/ 10 seconds at levels 1/4/8/10/12, and the reduction on champion kills and assists is 85% for kills and 50% for assists. That is a percentage reduction of the total Cooldown. An expiring mark does not trigger the cooldown and only consuming the mark will.

    • Several Marks can be active at once with no limit, but once a mark is consumed all marks disappear. The conditions for if an ability consumes the mark is if the empowered damage on hit damage from Seastone Trident makes contact with a marked Champion, or if Chum the Watersattaches to a marked Champion. Chum the Waters attaching to an enemy that gets marked after the attachment but before it detonates will NOT consume the mark. Even if the mark is applied by Chum the Waters and then it detonates, it still will not consume the mark.

    • Minions and Monsters marked by Seastone Wounds Instead stack the Mark over 1.5 seconds. Marks activated on minions can be reapplied and activated unrestricted and do not count towards activating Seastone Wounds Cooldown nor does it activate the Magic Pen and cooldown resets on Playful/Trickster and Urchin Strike. This special Minion/Monster mark can be applied even if the ability is on Cooldown.

  • Passive: Nimble Fighter

  • Fizz can not exceed a hard cap of 110 armor and MR no matter what. Any additional resistances will not apply and he will not gain any benefits from the additional resistances.

  • Q: Urchin Strike

  • Fizz dashes to a target location dealing magic damage to all enemies hit and applying on hit effects including Seastone Wounds. This ability uses a charge based system with up to a maximum of 2 charges being held at once.

    • Damage: 30/45/60/80/100 (+ 55% AP).

    • Cooldown: .75 after finishing the cast. Recharge cooldown 16/13.5/10.5/8/6.

    • Mana Cost: 60/65/70/75/80

    • Range: 600

    • Urchin Strike Can be canceled at any point during the dash using Playful/Trickster.

    • To be clear I am saying this would no longer be a targeted unit dash and instead a free aim dash.

    • The "Charge" based system means it would operate identically to akali's ultimate.

  • W: Seastone Trident

    • Everything stays mostly the same so no need to add the description

      • Damage: 70/110/140/170/220 (+ 100% AP), this grants 65% Effectiveness VS Minions and Monsters.

      • If the target is marked by Seastone Wounds you deal an Additional 60-450 (Based on Champion Level) (+ 25%-65% AP ) (Based on Champion Level) Magic Damage, and then resets the cooldown for Seastone Trident.

      • If Seastone Trident kills a unit, 100% of the mana cost is refunded and resets the cooldown. If the target is marked it will instead restore 150% of the mana cost, or 10% of your maximum mana if it is a champion.

      • Initial damage is reduced to 65% effectiveness on minions and monsters while the empowered damage is reduced to 45% effectiveness.

  • E: Playful/Trickster

  • Stays mostly the same mechanically but loses all damage.

    • Range on the Initial hop is reduced by 50 units.

    • Cooldown: 20/18/16/13/10

    • At any point during the ability you can cancel it by using Urchin Strike. Meaning I can dash out of my E using Q, or I can switch over to my E during Q.

  • R: Chum the Waters

  • I wanted to consider removing the ability to throw the shark from a range, but that's up for discussion so for now I'll just mention the other ideas.

    • Fizz can directly place the shark onto an enemy Champion that is within 200 units of fizz.

    • Damage: 250/350/450 (+ 40% AP). Marked targets take an additional 80-450 (+ 35% AP) Magic damage based on Champion level, starting at level 6 and ending at level 16. Additionally, 2 seconds after the shark detonates the target then bleeds for 3% (+ 1% per 50 AP) of their missing health in magic damage.

    • Chum the Waters can be activated while using both Urchin Strike and Playful/Trickster.

    • Cooldown and Mana costs stays the same.

As Fizz is generally associated with hate (as the king trickster should be) I'm very much expecting hate from people in some way shape or form. I'm perfectly fine with that, just I kindly ask you if you are going to provide criticism then at the very least provide a legitimate argument and be polite. Simply popping in and making non constructive comments like "You're dumb", or "Stupid OP broken champion should get deleted", or even a random sarcastic/ironic comment helps no one and especially won't further any point you might have. Please, thank you, and I look forward to our future discussions.

11 Comments

PhantomPrankster2 votes

as long as the shitters still have a majority voice in gameplay balance fizz will never be viable.

HongChongDong1 votes

I'm perfectly fine with people hating the idea, downvoting, flaming, whatever anyone needs/wants to do. I'll have a civil debate with anyone who has legitimate arguments towards me, I'll refute and deny anyone who has no logic, evidence, or sound argument in the first place, and most importantly I'll continue advocating to get a re-work that'll do right by Fizz as a champion. Maybe then I can finally start enjoying the game again and actually climb back to diamond instead of letting my account decay.

Cynosis1 votes

Not bad, I really loved the idea of nimble fighter, hard capping at 110 armor is great, kinda like the idea of cass not having feet so no boots. BUT! that passive is a little rough, the cooldown reduction on a skill that makes you pretty much immortal is a little rough, would make trading with him even worse. Lets just make that shark a hero instead :P

HongChongDong1 votes

That's the issue I talked about before the abilities. With the concept of his kit you either make him viably balanced for laning phase and sacrifice his late game (like his current iteration), or you sacrifice any balance during his laning phase in exchange for a kit that works better during the late. With that in mind and no clue how to fix the issue, I just decided that for a hypothetical rework concept I'd present it while focusing on fixing his late game.

With the Cooldown of his passive throughout the early to mid game levels and mana costs my idea is that he'd be gated to an extent. His E far from makes him immortal, especially during the laning phase when mid laners abuse him to the point of zoning him from CS at level 1 and beyond. He's still every bit vulnerable to poke and abuse but he'd have much more pressure as a lane bully like the concept of "Tidal Trickster" would fit to begin with.

The concept can also still be altered any number of ways, I'm only trying to get functions of his kit shifted around. His primary mobility spell to his Q, his primary damage to his W, turn his E into raw utlity, fix the issues with his shark, and finally actually fill in a passive for him. As for the passive, it's a clear issue that AP assassins lack itemization and Riot has several issues just implementing it, so it wouldn't have to be an issue if Fizz had his own built in stats.

Cynosis1 votes

While i agree with everything you say, it just seems like ADC's are getting the buff this season especially with the changes to thornmail.

SweetBubbleTea1 votes

Note: I am not exposing you or anything. I'm just giving my own thoughts and opinions on your rework. I mean no harm.

Due to you capped MR and AR, Fizz will have to build all dmg. This will cause his dmg to be extremely high. Another thing is that his ultimate. Even though its range is only 200 units, the dmg seems very high if you also take into consideration the amount of AP Fizz will have from your rework. And since Fizz has so many gap closers from your rework, hitting the target with the shark should be fairly easy. Finally, I have a question about his passive. Is everything listed under "Passive" part of his passive? Because the passive seems very complex, and this kinda hurts Fizz's play style. Fizz is usually pretty easy to play and master, but from your rework, it is kinda making him harder to actually master and play to his fullest.

I may be misunderstanding something in your rework, so feel free to let me know if I misinterpret what you meant.

HongChongDong2 votes

Fizz is meant to be full damage, he's an AP assassin. Having an armor and MR cap prevents fizz from building full tank to abuse certain aspects of his kit. This was a prevailing problem throughout fizz's history. The cap only would affect you in the case of building full tank items (Sunfire cape and Spirits Visage for example) and the cap is not low enough to do any harm to a standard build.

He SHOULD deal extreme damage, he's an assassin. Though this concept has many flaws, especially in the damage department among other things. Gotta either change around the mechanics more and fiddle with how his scalings work.

Yes, the damage is going to be high on both his R and W as those are going to be his primary damage spells and only damage. His E would no longer deal damage nor would his passive. I'd even consider removing damage from his Q but that's to be debated.

Being easy to play and master isn't really a play style. This wouldn't be harder to play for the average player but would open up alot of possibilities for players who would master him further, especially the dynamic mobility from his Q and E.

As for his passive that's nothing more than details to properly explain the mechanics behind it. In a nuttshell it means when it's available: Hit something, then either use your W or R and whichever ability you use gets a load of damage tacked on, and finally you get a reset on your Q and E.

SweetBubbleTea1 votes

Yeah the numbers are a bit too high for him if he's going to build all damage. However, in my opinion, his ability to output high damage as well as being so mobile is what makes him hated in the league community. Just an idea to think about.

And also, you should make Fizz be able to throw out the shark because it would provide some peel and protection for Fizz just like how it was before, and it would make it "harder" to land, making the damage portion a bit more reasonable. Since he is an assassin, this will make use of a high risk, high reward situation. If you're going to do that, you'll have to decide whether it would attach to a nearby target if it misses.

For the Q, you should also state what will happen (CDR wise) when you don't use the second cast.

And lastly, everything you said makes sense, but for the complexity of his kit, there are a lot of interactions that his Passive, Q, and R all have that might hinder its full potential. Besides that, everything else seems fine to me.

HongChongDong1 votes

I can assure you that the damage is not as high as you think. This does not take into account resistances: A late game PERFECT combo with current fizz would equal 3270 raw damage from everything in his kit. This concept would equal out to 3440. I could actually agree with tuning down the base damage, but what this kit gives over his current iteration is reliability.

He's hated in the league community for an annoying laning phase. Your average player will play lux into fizz, run at him, throw a Q, he'll E, then they die. Once this happens his kit allows him to snowball the lane more than other assassins because of his engage range and suddenly he's oppressive and the most unfun champion in the game.

Put in a practical game where players understand the game abit better, once late game hits his "mobility" becomes far less practical and hinders him alot. Good players in a respectably high elo will abuse him in lane and this only gets worse as time goes on. This is something that anyone can tell you including professional players, fizz gets bullied. If you at the very least know how to play safe, build safe, ect. Then fizz will never have the opportunity to snowball a lane to that point of being frustratingly impossible to play against.

Fizz doesn't need protection or peel, an assassin is looking to engage and pick a target, not kite. With this concept there's no more pseudo initiator assassin, there's no tank playstyle, this is a diver as its finest. You put yourself into the position where you have the tools to beable to dive a high value target, unload a quick powerful and reliable combo, and escape IF you play it right. If you fail or are incapable of doing this then you lose as a champion.

Having to dive into the enemy is the point of this rework, there's plenty of risk. Your E is not a get out of jail free card, never has been. You have a single use of it to give you an opportunity to not die, and if you succeed in procing your passive then you reset your mobility and make an escape that is impossible for fizz as he is now. Zed can do this and he's praised as the shining example of what an assassin should be.

Fizz plays exactly like this right now, only he's WAY less reliable in his damage application, too much counterplay, and even if there's some magical way he can succeed then he'll die regardless.

You either land your ultimate on your target or you can't even proc your W so you lose by default. The problem is that even if you land your ulty it can still be negated with a number of different items and abilities, it can land on a target with even just a Maw which MASSIVELY reduces your ability to kill them, and in 99% of cases you have to blow your E, your only tool for surviving and 1/3 of your entire damage, just to get within range of your target to Q at them.

Your Q is also dodgable/easily interruptible so there's a high chance you can't even land your W and lichbane proc. Finally even if you can land an ability or 2 we're in a meta where massive amounts of survivability to champions who shouldn't have it exists, so there's a high chance you couldn't have even killed the person with a full combo, much less the the Q>W>Lichbane proc which becomes your only damage source in alot of cases.

Regardless of whether you kill this person or lightly scratch them you end up dying because you've blown everything you have just to manage up till the point you've come to, and all you can do is hourglass and die instantly upon coming out of it, or perhaps die before hourglass because you got dogpiled with CC.

Final topic: With all due respect I think that it only looks complicated from your point of view. I can say with a very high certainty that in terms of interactions nothing hinders anything, and the complexity of the concept kit is very shallow.

Also to clear things up he doesn't have a "Second cast". It's a charge based dash mechanic like akali's R.

EDIT- As I said in a different comment I welcome any and all logical and civil criticism on my idea's, even after all my experience with the champion I question myself more than others. So if you have an argument I'm more than willing to hear it. That said, it's midnight where I live so I'm very exhausted from the day. I'll read over and reply to anything you want to post in the morning, until then have a nice night and feel free to say whatever you think needs to be said if you think there are any issues with anything I've posted thus far.

Emerald Fang1 votes

I don’t see the point of his nimble fighter Passive to be honest if he’s an assassin.

HongChongDong1 votes

Because there are parts of his kit that are abusable if he built full tank. Rather than gating, nerfing, or changing the kit to prevent this it's easier just to directly eliminate the problem with no possible work around.

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