Zed has 91.28% ban rate in Korea

DJ S0NA·May 26, 2016·148 votes·13,538 views

Zed ban rate per region:

Korea: 91.28% Europe West: 80.05% North America: 77.11% Europe Nordic&East: 84.54% Brazil: 86.40% Turkey: 76.71% Oceania: 81.72% Japan: 76.31% (Zed is top 3 ban) Latin America North: 71.08% (Zed is top 2 ban) Latin America South: 81.45% Russia: 76.94%

Total % ban for all regions: 80.32%

This is NOT OK Riot. I am pretty fucking sure the "Q nerfs" will do absolutely nothing and will not reduce the frustration of laning against him. It will make him 2 shirukens deal MORE damage, and that is what we don't want.

After the revert of his ultimate, his other change pretty much does nothing. His Shadow is up almost everytime because he auto pushes your lane and you can't do anything to harass him because you are focused on killing minions. The time it takes to clear minions under tower, let's say 5 seconds after he pushes you, he will have his Shadow 4-5 seconds after your minion wave passes your tower. It's really infuriating and the Q "nerfs" will not do anything.

Gut Zed and don't make him the next Kassawin. (Zedawin )

206 Comments

WeedTitsMay 26, 201647 votes

If he wasn't such a lane bully for being a melee mid laner, people probably wouldn't hate him so much. Other melee mids kinda have to play passively til 6, but Zed can bully just as hard as LeBlanc, but he never falls off.

ZackeryssMay 26, 201624 votes

While being manaless, and being ad, having much more, simply better, build paths than ap. He wins simply because everything he has is just better than his opponent minus having only a slow for cc.

UltîmaMay 26, 20164 votes

Having a slow for CC works REALLY well for some other champions too DrMundo Graves Evelynn Fiora Gangplank Kassadin Khazix Teemo

Zed just happens to make it exasperating with his insane mobility, damage and safety.

SaiannaMay 26, 201614 votes

Evelynn has slow?

[thinks]...

...

OH!

You mean that 3-minute-CD-AOE-No-damage-crappy-shield-slow ultimate-that-has-been-slapped-on-her-because-Riot-didn't-know-how-to-balance-her?

Ye, she has one

KudrovMay 26, 201657 votes

let's be honest here Zed is not a melee champ LOL

KetiMay 26, 20163 votes

He falls off in the sense that his kit struggles to function in teamfights, but he can always split push.

Baby GhoulMay 26, 201642 votes

I wish people would stop trying to defend Zed.

You're not helping. Imagine being a Zed main right now. He does need to be changed if the ban rate is ever going to start to drop.

People overwhelmingly don't like Zed. They don't like Zed when he's winning or losing. They don't like him when he's ahead, and they don't like him when he's behind. Some people don't even like him on their team. They don't like him when his win rate is high or low (49.97% at a 6.27% play rate is not low by any means).

The thing that aggravates the community even more is when he gets compensated for his nerfs. He needs to sink out of the lime light for a little bit at the very least. Riot is trying too hard and the community around the world is overwhelmingly rejecting Zed. People need to stop ignoring how significant that is.

AlüeMay 26, 20166 votes

Bingo, would prefer if the champion is banned and not on my team or the enemy. Mid main since season 2

DaxterrMay 26, 20166 votes

{quoted}

I wish people would stop trying to defend Zed.

You're not helping. Imagine being a Zed main right now. He does need to be changed if the ban rate is ever going to start to drop.

People overwhelmingly don't like Zed. They don't like Zed when he's winning or losing. They don't like him when he's ahead, and they don't like him when he's behind. Some people don't even like him on their team.

I can comfirm I don't like zed on my team. Yasuo is worse though. Yas players always take everything and then feed =/. Or best case scenario they just take everything.

SlythionMay 26, 201624 votes

Why is everyone pretending that Zed being Frustrating = OP

Zed is not even remotely OP, he's had less than 50% win ratio for months in Plat+ Elo. Stop calling for guttings and nerfs and start asking for a proper distribution in power. There is a huge difference between the two

P.S. - I suppose I'll be downvoted into oblivion for sympathizing for Zed now...it's the way of the boards. Just do me a favor and explain to me how I'm wrong. How can Zed be overall OP and require nerfs if his winrate has constantly shown he is balanced over the span of an entire game (his laning phase should be nerfed while late game should be buffed imo)

Link to most if not all of my information that you'll see in my posts on this thread: http://champion.gg/champion/Zed

DJ S0NAMay 26, 201613 votes

Because win rate usually does not tend to represent the frustrating levels of playing against him. Think Tahm Kench. He was nearly at 50% win rate at top lane and he was hella stupid to lane against. He has 2 health bars and does damages the level of a burst champion. Riot gutted his top lane "performance" so he can be less hard to deal with him.

YumScrumptious96May 26, 201610 votes

Hella stupid yet he couldn't even win half of his games.

SlythionMay 26, 201610 votes

It's almost like you didn't even read my post :/

The entire thing was about how frustrating gameplay =/= op kit

Zed is frustrating, not op. I wish players would stop calling for Zed nerfs when he doesn't need any, just a distribution of power

DJ S0NAMay 26, 20163 votes

Then how and where do you distribute his power? My personal "change" is to deal less damage to minions with shirukens, but keep the same damage against champions and monsters, increase the cooldown on E, but make it overlap when it hits by 2 shadows (50 or 75% extra damage) and maybe make his ultimate the way it was changed before, but with more ad ratio.

SlythionMay 26, 20164 votes

IMO, I'd like to something like this happen:

Q Damage reduced - Damage Amplified when enemy is hit by 2, and amplified further if hit by 3 shurikans

W treatment similar to his ult (delayed by maybe .25 or some tiny amount before he can switch places with it)

E (similar to Q) now speeds Zed up (opposed to slowing enemies) scaling off how many enemies he hits. Speed and Dmg amplified by X% damage based on how many E's he hits on an enemy

What this does: Q changes reduces his poke in lane while rewarding Zed players for using skill to hit 2+ shurikans (dmg down lane phase while scales better into late game)

W treatment reduces his safeness from ganks and all-ins in lane (doesn't impact much in late-game)

E changes make it more difficult to get that poke on the enemy in lane (as they won't be slowed anymore) yet helps buffer his lose of mobility from his W in a more fair way. It also scales harder into late game while nerfing his lane phase

Those are my suggestions. Overall, he should stay relatively the same in terms of overall power while his lane-phase is significantly less annoying and his late game is generally buffed (he will fall off if your skill level is weak because you wont delete players without hitting multiple q's and e's but is far more rewarding for experienced Zed players which I think is important seeing how Zed is supposed to have a high skill cap).

This new kit also encourages him to stay near his target for assassination (as assassins should) and nerfs his potential to just leave his deletion to hitting you with his shadow's abilities

WoonStruckMay 26, 20167 votes

You could also argue that his winrate is just barely 50% because when he's open, a zed pick is almost guaranteed at this point, so people lock in his lane counters and other general counters. This is more true the higher up in ELO you go.

Since he's playing against counters every match and still reaching 50% win rate, one could argue that he IS in fact OP.

Winrate is not the sole indicator of balance. Its a horrible solitary statistic to go by.

JorenciceMay 26, 20165 votes

Maybe. But the forum likes to play favorites.

And hating zed is a big favorite.

I remember when udyr was at like 59% winrate and people were calling him balanced citing that winrate doesn't matter.

WoonStruckMay 26, 20168 votes

And yet, it was proven that his 3 core items were highly over-tuned, wasn't it?

Udyr as a champion is a problem IMO. Not matter what an item is, he can make insanely good use of it, so if its even slightly out of line, Udyr is busted as a result.

Udyr is a champion that is almost intrinsically broken. The only thing holding him back is Riot's poor implementation of ranged vs melee balance.

SteeneeMay 27, 20162 votes

Good point Woon. And THAT is the real problem with these boards. No one wants to look at the whole picture and only like to cite part of the argument that favors them. WInrate is such a small part of the equation.

Hating Zed is a big favorite BECAUSE he's such an annoyingly P.O.S. champion to deal with, and the statistics even show that 80% of the world doesn't like to deal with him. If that doesn't scream "we need to do something," I don't know what does.

ZeeWolfZMay 26, 201639 votes

Why is everyone pretending that Zed being Frustrating = OP

Zed is not even remotely OP, he's had less than 50% win ratio for months in Plat+ Elo. Stop calling for guttings and nerfs and start asking for a proper distribution in power. There is a huge difference between the two

Please, Tell me that when you are playing vs Diamond Zeds and not Bronzies.

He is our top 6 bans right now: Kindred Lucian Zed Ekko Fizz Maokai

Keep these banned, you'll win games easily.

Just build Hourglass!

Sure, if you'll not feed him twice by then.

Also, Hourglass timer 120 seconds, Zed's ult 120/100/80 sec WITHOUT CDR. I am sure he'll rush item 3142 which adds 10% CDR.

Have fun getting destroyed. _ Get Exhaust! _

Sure! Now we just have to worry about him 2 shotting my ADCs who we NEED alive at all times.

You haven't faced skill polished players. Zed is impossible to play against, I assure you.

SlythionMay 26, 20169 votes

Did you just quote

he's had less than 50% win ratio for month in Plat+ Elo

and follow up with how higher elo's are dominating with him? lol

I'll say it again

win ratio in high elos has constantly shown that Zed isn't OP. He may be frustrating, but he is definitely not OP.

ZeeWolfZMay 26, 201633 votes

Lucian is OP, Fizz is OP, But Zed is impossible to deal with and protect your adc from.

So we ban him 100% so we don't have to put special care to protecting our squishies.

SlythionMay 26, 201612 votes

He is frustrating...yes. Yet his 49% win ratio shows that he isn't OP. Doesn't that suggest he needs a distribution of power and not flat out guttings?

MissMikasaMay 26, 201635 votes

That win ratio probably has a lot to do with a ton of people grabbing him just because he wasn't banned (which is rare), but don't know what the fuck they are doing and play terribly.

He's still an awful, frustrating, broken piece of crap.

SlythionMay 26, 201611 votes

The problem is that the ratio has remained below 50% for months. Before the mage rework, before qss changes, before any of these changes to the game that players screamed at riot that it would break Zed. Even after all of these things, he remains below 50%.

Even experienced players (125+ games) average a 53.56% winrate (which is not incredibly high). To put this in perspective, take a look at Lissandra (a strong pick in higher elos). She remains at nearly a constant 50% winrate throught the player experience level until rocketing up to a 62.43% win ratio with experienced players (125+ games).

The argument that his win rate is only low because players are just picking him up out of the blue doesn't really hold when experienced Zed players only amount to a 53% win ratio.

WheatloafMay 26, 201619 votes

People need to stop responding to you with "but he's so FRUSTRATING!" Because that's exactly what you're saying. He's not OP, he's just an annoying piece of shit.

SlythionMay 26, 20168 votes

Why is his win ratio below-par in higher elos? Why are experienced players (125+ games) in higher elos only able to manage a 53% win ratio if he's so unstoppable?

1ManchesterMay 26, 20169 votes

Okay I explain you ..hope you are not a Zed main. He has a 50% win rate in plat+ where players are good and a 80% ban rate there. With that being said the 12% times Zed is being picked the enemy team composition is build completely to counter Zed and shut him down . That means double exhaust hard Cc ect . So in higher elos when they feel playing against zed they make sure he is shut down . And the fact that he has 80% ban rate says that players dont want to deal with him and build everything against him leaving other lanes uncountered and making the game unfun to play . The thing is in higher elos this can work because players know how to deal with zed have a good interaction with their team know when and how to use abilities and can pull this thing of . In lower elos teams cant communicate so well to build a team composition against him and play around it. Woth these arguments I would say his win rate is high for a player that is countered hard when he has the chance to be picked . So yes he is definitely Op and his win rate is higher as it should have been if you ask me .

GayFluffyUnicornMay 26, 20163 votes

Sorry, but not being able to deal with a champ in certain elos is definitely the problem of said elo. So no, he is definitely NOT op, only low elos have a problem to deal with him. I can tell you, they only ban Zed in higher elo because: frustration level+ u never know when u will meet a dedicated Zed main who will just instagib you all thanks to his high skill ceiling.

1ManchesterMay 26, 201610 votes

Well than Zed is the problem of all elos do you get that ? Since you mentioned elos he has more than 75% ban rate in ALL ELOS . So do you want to tell me that diamond elo is so bad they cant deal with zed ..or you want to say that diamond is a low elo cos you say only low elos have problems with him . If diamond had no problem dealing with him he would have less than at least 50% ban rate but no . He has 78% ban rate in bronze and 82% in diamond. Also yeah in diamond elo you would expect that almost everyone is a decent zed player that can solo kill you .

SpecterVonBarenMay 27, 20161 votes

No Malzahar ban?

Voluug13May 27, 20161 votes

Malzahar ban is ridiculously overrated.

His passive is only OP against champions that OPEN with their only CC. Aside from that its pretty underwhelming, and only saves you against ridiculously short nukes that depend on CC.

Ironically his match-up against (any decent) Zed is worse now thanks to this.

He now has terrible burst and mediocre survivability. He is only strong against very certain picks and as a niche jungler (when his team pick tanky Top and Supp along with an AD mid).

At this point people ban him without knowing why.

SpecterVonBarenMay 27, 20162 votes

And yet you mention nothing about the Voidling mosh pit.

franticFurballMay 26, 20161 votes

Just do me a favor and explain to me how I'm wrong.

Because winrate statistics of a champion that is banned 9/10 games, mean less than nothing.

You're welcome.

SlythionMay 26, 20161 votes

Except for the fact that Zed's winrate has always been mediocre, with a maximum for 52% which was months ago.

If you are willing to completely disregard months on consistent data because it disagrees with your stance on the subject, yet you support varying data completely based of the player base's opinion on a champion (ban rate) because it legitimizes your stance, then that's what we call a biased decision.

franticFurballMay 27, 20162 votes

If you are willing to completely disregard months on consistent data because it disagrees with your stance on the subject

I am willing to completely disregard months OF consistent data because its irrelevant.

Months before now, AP mids were not gutted by the AP item changes, months before now several AP mids were not "reworked", AD were not in itemization heaven, and Zed still had a 1 sec rewind timer on the ult shadow.

yet you support varying data completely based of the player base's opinion on a champion (ban rate) because it legitimizes your stance

Yes I do, because people ban for a reason. You can dispute the ban decisions of 100 players or a 1000. An 80% banrate over all regions and ELO ranges, is no longer opinion however, its a statistical fact.

Nice try tho.

The Yetii RiderMay 26, 201618 votes

The reason that Zed has a bad win rate, despite how much mid lane mains cry and beg for nerfs, is exactly what everyone is saying here.

Most people post on Zed threads talking about "Oh, just buy a Zhonya's" or "You need to harass him better". It's pretty much universally understood that the main problem everyone has with Zed is during the laning phase. Zed's win rate is bad because he can't contend with a full team. His job is generally just to make the opposing mage even more useless than he is by oppressing them in lane, and then diving the enemy carry and leaving both teams with no damage sources. However, this strategy fails to take into account the power of carry junglers, which usually divide Zed's attention and leave his impact late game as relatively minor.

This is just the problem with having assassins who can lane. They are powerful, hard to gank, and shut down the opponent, but don't have the utility a mid-laner is supposed to bring to the team.

Zed doesn't need his power redistributed, he needs to just be forced into the jungle. He would have some pretty sick ganks and would allow for his team to have an AP mid so his team isn't so hard-countered by armor stacking (another reason for his low win rate).

The best way to deal with Zed for Riot is to make his Q pass through minions entirely (but not monsters). With no easy way to CS, Zed would be forced into the jungle. Giving Talon's Rake and Yasuo's Steel Tempest similar treatments would basically free up mid lane for AP assassins and mages, and then the problem is fixed. Zed, Talon and Yasuo don't need much to help them become excellent junglers, they just feel so much more satisfying in the lane because you get so many more kills. Even when a Zed loses a game, he's still probably 6/3 and just thinking "GG, my team too heavy".

Hinagiku33May 26, 20164 votes

I'd honestly love it if more assassins were made able to jungle and were less oppressive in lane. I'd like to play jungle assassins and I'm sure mages would like to not be completely mauled in lane.

The issue with Zed's win rate, and why win rates are terrible indicators for power, is simple:

winning lane =/= winning game

Zed can win the lane phase mid pretty much just for being Zed. You practically have to try to actually lose lane as Zed, it's frankly disgusting even playing as him. So Zed always dominates lane but has a middling win rate because he drops the ball after he neuters his lane opponent. That still makes him horrifically overpowered in lane phase which is still unacceptable and absolutely no fun for the opposing mid laner...the entire opposing team really, since it apparently takes a concerted team effort to actually beat Zed, let alone his team if any of his other lanes do well.

WyrmbladeMay 27, 20163 votes

This makes me wonder...

I wonder how much better the Morde Rework would have been if they tried to force him into the jungle instead of bot lane.

RengClawMay 26, 201617 votes

he needs the olaf treatment

LankPantsMay 26, 201621 votes

He needs the season 1 Eve treatment, you know, the one where she was so bad that picking her was actually a reportable offence.

Fisherman FízzMay 26, 201617 votes

If they pretty much perma ban a champion in Korea something's not right...

ZeeWolfZMay 26, 201615 votes

SO CLOSE TO 99.99%!

I7A6X2v2May 26, 20164 votes

Zed is perfectly balanced right now.

mikemcpartyMay 26, 201617 votes

/sarcasm?

CerealBoxOfDoomMay 26, 20163 votes

do you even know what a high banrate means?

mikemcpartyMay 26, 201614 votes

yeah, it has to do with the perceived healthiness of a champion. High ban rate means that people perceive that champion to either be too strong or have unhealthy gameplay mechanics. Both of those describe Zed. When you see such a high banrate across all regions at all elos, then there is a problem.

CerealBoxOfDoomMay 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

yeah, it has to do with the perceived healthiness of a champion. High ban rate means that people perceive that champion to either be too strong or have unhealthy gameplay mechanics. Both of those describe Zed. When you see such a high banrate across all regions at all elos, then there is a problem.

It can also indicate that said champion hoses something.

A mage update comes and zed becomes instaban. If a category of champs becomes to strong their counters could get banned out. Or when the counters to something becomes weak it could get banned out.

mikemcpartyMay 26, 20169 votes

Right... My point exactly. A champion that can single-handedly "hose" an entire class of champions is not healthy, therefore he is being banned. It isn't the assassin class as a whole either. Talon, fizz, and kata don't have ban rates nearly as consistent. Zed needs a fix immediately and it sucks for Zed mains because they are unable to play a champ they have experience with.

CerealBoxOfDoomMay 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Right... My point exactly. A champion that can single-handedly "hose" an entire class of champions is not healthy, therefore he is being banned. It isn't the assassin class as a whole either. Talon, fizz, and kata don't have ban rates nearly as consistent. Zed needs a fix immediately and it sucks for Zed mains because they are unable to play a champ they have experience with.

that is an opinion.

the idea that assassins or melee carries should be able to hose mages may or may not be acceptable. But you have to consider, is zed the problem or is it the mages.