WTH is Going on With Ashe??

FarRockBF·Dec 16, 2014·2 votes·1,849 views

Over 65% win rate this past month in NA Challenger? Wuuuuuut????

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=champion-winrate&range=monthly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=challenger

29 Comments

DJ Hatsune MikuDec 16, 20145 votes

This just in, Ashe doesn't suck. She also seems popular with high level adcs. I know a few name her among their favorites.

QuephaDec 16, 20143 votes

it turns out utility and crowd control can be more useful than raw damage news at 11.

Kuroi86Dec 16, 20141 votes

Ashe' damage is nothing to joke about. High damage ult and W. Passive grants crits in skirmishes. High AS per lvl.

Leti the YetiDec 16, 20143 votes

her passive gives you free crits... Ever tried to fight a tryndamere or has a tryndamhere tried to fight you at lvl1? yes? thats how you lost lane Her perma slow makes kiting really easy that ult is a great engage... ashe is pretty good

The reason why she wasnt popular before was because her lack of escapes... from jungle ganks which isnt an issue anymore cuz the poor junglers are in no state to gank her anymore

jungler nerf was an indirect buff to immobile adcs

SeCKS EgaiDec 17, 20141 votes

{quoted}

her passive gives you free crits... Ever tried to fight a tryndamere or has a tryndamhere tried to fight you at lvl1? yes? thats how you lost lane Her perma slow makes kiting really easy that ult is a great engage... ashe is pretty good

The reason why she wasnt popular before was because her lack of escapes... from jungle ganks which isnt an issue anymore cuz the poor junglers are in no state to gank her anymore

jungler nerf was an indirect buff to immobile adcs

This totally makes sense to me based on my jungle experience since the changes. In the little pvp I have done since the changes, you can definitely feel a difference in the game dynamic. Hell, even in co-op the jungle feels almost foreign to me compared to any of the past seasons.

Lumus AvatarDec 16, 20143 votes

I finally understand the concept of sheep.

I have been fruitlessly posting arguments on a few of the "ashe (ashe's passive) sucks" threads over the past couple months. Everyone hates her, she isn't picked, she can't do anything.

and I come in and explain exactly why she is well designed and works well and doesn't need changes and I get hateflamed for it.

now that she's been used by pros everyone's going to change their tune and start calling for nerfs.

Please don't consider this post hate. I'm just bitterly pointing out an observation. People have their opinions and I just try to explain why their opinion may not be mathematically supported - but it is a little frustrating to see such flip-flopping opinions just because a champ does or doesn't get used by "pros"

sorry.

Kuroi86Dec 16, 20141 votes

Ashe has never really sucked. Her kit though is a little bit warped around her CC.

Lumus AvatarDec 16, 20141 votes

Her CC is pretty darn strong, though. She seems, to me, to be the epitome of the ADC - as she was one of the earliest, this makes sense. She doesn't so much have damaging abilities as she relies almost exclusively on auto-attacking. So everything in her kit revolves around making it so she can auto-attack. Slow their escape or advance, automatic crit that builds faster the more crit chance she has (starts at her crit chance as base), and an ult that let's her escape a foe too close or hold a more distant foe for her or her team to delete.

Kuroi86Dec 16, 20141 votes

I can't argue with anything you said lol. I'm just wondering if she could give up a bit of the CC (or make it slightly more situational) in return for a little more scaling power.

Lumus AvatarDec 16, 20141 votes

I'm biased cuz I love her the way she is - she was the first champ I ever played and it just feels right. I drop early lifesteal on her and then start building crit with AS on Statikk Shiv and then an Infinity Edge and become a late game power house.

Most people say Runaan's Hurricane is a worthless item, but I can't think of a time I don't build it. the attack speed plus the multiplied lifesteal...it just wrecks.

Kuroi86Dec 17, 20141 votes

I'm honestly thinking of doing AS/Crit early with IE/Shiv, then get my LW, then move into AD/CDR with Ionian boots and Essense Reaver. Ult, Crit, W can melt health and the CDR means W is on a really short cool down. I've been pondering if I could add a trinity force on at the end, but that might never be possible.

Lumus AvatarDec 17, 20141 votes

That's a fine build. My problem is EVERY ADC goes IE, Statikk from the get-go. I find that Ashe has the highest natural AS, but what she doesn't have is damage or sustain. I want to put the Essence Reaver on her, but I haven't tried it yet - I keep forgetting.

I find if I start with Bloodthirster first, I can lane a lot more safely because pushing my lane gives me a shield, while freezing my lane gives me free crits on the enemy champ. and no matter what I do, I can regain health lost to poke. Once I have that I'm on the fence about going either Crit/AD with IE or getting more AS which makes my CC that much more punishing by getting the Statikk Shiv or Phantom Dancer.

I really like to argue in favor of the Pantom Dancer cuz I can't tell you the number of kills that got away, or the number of times I've been killed because of unit collisions...Auto-pathing through the minion wave sucks!!

Kuroi86Dec 17, 20141 votes

That's a fine build. My problem is EVERY ADC goes IE, Statikk from the get-go. I find that Ashe has the highest natural AS, but what she doesn't have is damage or sustain. I want to put the Essence Reaver on her, but I haven't tried it yet - I keep forgetting.

Because IE is an incredibly efficient item to get, especially on Ashe. Basically my reasoning is get IE, get shiv, get passive stacked and ult ready. Then just nuke them. The damage is pretty ridiculous. ER is a good item, I don't know if I'd rush it first, but it is strong. It also means you can pretty much leave Q on forever.

I find if I start with Bloodthirster first, I can lane a lot more safely because pushing my lane gives me a shield, while freezing my lane gives me free crits on the enemy champ. and no matter what I do, I can regain health lost to poke. Once I have that I'm on the fence about going either Crit/AD with IE or getting more AS which makes my CC that much more punishing by getting the Statikk Shiv or Phantom Dancer.

As you said, Ashe has one of the highest innate AS in the game. After a few levels she can keep her slow locked onto an opponent with ease. More damage though means that you don't have to try to lock them down for quite so long.

I really like to argue in favor of the Pantom Dancer cuz I can't tell you the number of kills that got away, or the number of times I've been killed because of unit collisions...Auto-pathing through the minion wave sucks!!

This I think falls into the realm of how you want your build to go. I suggested Shiv as it adds to the burst of the build, where as Phantom Dancer is more of a duelist item. I'd suggest IE in either situation, but for better burst I say Essense Reaver and Statikk Shiv. For dueling I'd say Phantom Dancer and Bork.

MahnigguhDec 16, 20141 votes

Ashe

FarRockBFDec 16, 20141 votes

BUT 65%???

Did Doublelift and Turtle just decide to main her?

QuephaDec 16, 20141 votes

{quoted}

BUT 65%???

Did Doublelift and Turtle just decide to main her?

it's challenger, there's like a 20 game sample size so winrates always have a massive variance from day to day.

she counters kalista!

that may be the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

BouncingPecsDec 16, 20141 votes

she counters kalista!

that may be the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

But she does counter Kalista. Yes kalista can leap with each auto and her Q, but Ashe has more range and can prevent her from getting within auto attacking range. She also has a higher base AS and per level AS, so she can Orb Walk to make up distance as good as kalista for a good percentage of the game, not including through walls. Then whereas Kalista has an AoE knock back, Ashe has the stun and it does more damage.

FarRockBFDec 16, 20141 votes

Oh, I just thought of something...maybe her high win rate is directly related to Kalista's LOW win rate...

EDIT: I'm right! Just check my phone "LoL Counter" app. Apparently Ashe is the best Kalista counter in game. So everyone's trying the new "kiting" champ; but that's Ashe's domain.

FarRockBFDec 16, 20141 votes

Why did my thread get downvoted when I was asking a question?

Anyhow, no all of you are incorrect - Ashe is still not good vs the current meta of dash champs; she just rapes Kalista. This will probably die down when Kalista gets a buff.

{quoted}

it's challenger, there's like a 20 game sample size so winrates always have a massive variance from day to day.

that may be the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

Haha, you obviously didn't check the link... She has over 55% win rate in Diamond and Plat as well...not 20 games anymore bro. AND you didn't read my post. Not a day thing; over the past MONTH.

Fed by Snu SnuDec 16, 20141 votes

solo queue is all about getting picks right now.

Ashe does exactly that.

You still won't see her picked competitively.

Also, challenger is a small data pool. It's not uncommon for champions to have 60-70% win ratios there. You are watching a 130 games data sample.

You want to know OP? Look at corki sitting at 53.8% with 1400 games sample.

FarRockBFDec 16, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fed by Snu Snu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MNj50XTQ,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2014-12-16T17:24:35.815+0000) Also, challenger is a small data pool. It's not uncommon for champions to have 60-70% win ratios there. You are watching a 130 games data sample.

Another person who can't read and refuses to click the link. She has a great win rate in Plat-Diamond as well.

Fed by Snu SnuDec 16, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Another person who can't read and refuses to click the link. She has a great win rate in Plat-Diamond as well.

The numbers pulled are exactly from your link.

As for diamond, that includes D5 and as I told you, making picks is very important in solo queue, which she does efficiently. You will still not see her picked competitively anytime soon in her current state, simple as that.

FarRockBFDec 16, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fed by Snu Snu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MNj50XTQ,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2014-12-16T17:27:47.360+0000)

The numbers pulled are exactly from your link.

As for diamond, that includes D5 and as I told you, making picks is very important in solo queue, which she does efficiently. You will still not see her picked competitively anytime soon in her current state, simple as that.

Aaaaand again. In Ranked 5X5 she also is from the highest 10 win rate champs plat-diamond which is** tens of thousands of people**.

Fed by Snu SnuDec 16, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Aaaaand again. In Ranked 5X5 she also is from the highest 10 win rate champs plat-diamond which is** tens of thousands of people**.

Are you drunk mate? Ranked 5v5s she doesn't even appear on the highest win rates list. If anything, it's Sivir there who has an astonishing 57% win rate, something to be expected due to how effective stampede comps she can create.

StoningtonDec 16, 20141 votes

I think it's partly due to less jungle pressure early. If you don't kill Ashe pre level 6, you're basically fucked. She's also a pretty good lane bully with her crit, reliable aoe slow damage, and 600 range. Once she gets IE and Shiv she'll be dealing around 1000 damage on her first auto guaranteed due to the way shiv and her passive work.

Also at higher elos people know when to pick her and when not to. She's usually not a first pick ADC.

HayaishiDec 16, 20141 votes

You plebs keep making your "Ashe buffs threads" when Ashe has been in a good place for months now.

Kowe The EwokDec 16, 20141 votes

Consider:

Strong nerfs to Corki (more incomming) and Lucien. Assassin junglers lost viability = lower gank frequency.

She got indirectly boosted by the recent changes.

stealthfox94Dec 16, 20141 votes

She's good if you have a team of 4 other guys you know to play with, she's not that great in sloloque.

Meep ManDec 17, 20141 votes

This just in, Ashe was fine the whole team, maybe even really good. You heard it here first, people are calling champions garbage when suddenly the champion begins to win without any buffs or nerfs and suddenly, they are OP.