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With the Addition of Ekko I Have to Ask, Lich Bane: How is This Still a Thing?

The Yetii Rider··3 votes·3,986 views

Luden's Echo is an item that makes sense. It gives more burst for burst champions, makes them deal their damage faster and in a wider area, as well as making them harder to catch and etc etc etc. It's a pretty good item, makes champs like Katarina and LeBlanc more annoying, while having the side effect of making poke champions like Lux and Kog really really really annoying.

Lich Bane on the other hand...ugh.

So, Luden's has the (I believe) unintended side effect of making poke champs more pokey. Lich Bane has many many many unintended side effects.

Lich Bane is supposed to give AP sustained damage champions more consistent sustained damage, and rewards risk by making the champions in question need to get within auto range in order to do this. And it has the following unintended consequences:

  1. AP Split Pushers are beyond toxic with this item. Ziggs is the biggest offender here, but Kayle and Diana have issues too.

  2. AP supports have to be nerfed around this item. See the Sona rework, see the Lulu nerfs, see the Karma rework and 5.10 Karma...

  3. AP assassins get more damage out of this item. See Fizz before they messed with him and turned him into an AD jungler, see Ekko, see Diana when she's built as a full AP assassin. Assassins need burst damage, and they don't care about weaving Lich Bane procs carefully with their abilities like sustained champs do, to them it's just one more way to deliver 50% AP as part of their overall rotation.

Lich Bane constantly requires other champions to be balanced around it and champions who 'aren't supposed to build it' get stronger by building it, because of course you can't balance an item that gives both AP and a damage source that scales with AP.

Luden's Echo has an actual CD. Lich Bane does not. Luden's Echo helps burst champions. Lich Bane helps champions who don't have a lot of sources of damage in their kit (Sona, Lulu, Twisted Fate, Bard) as well as the sustained DPS AP champs (Diana, Ezreal, Elise if she wasn't required to build tank).

Riot you messed with Lich Bane before and even had to buff champions because of how much they rely on the item. Let me state this clearly. This should not be the case. Burst champions do not rely on Luden's Echo to kill their targets. Luden's Echo helps them kill them faster, and helps them kill champions they normally couldn't (tanks, mostly). But sustained DPS AP champs? They literally cannot do their job without the bonus damage from Lich Bane. That's a problem. You need to remove this item and simply add more DPS to Twisted Fate, Sona, Lulu, maybe AP Ezreal, idk. Make the champions able to do their job correctly without 3 or 4 additional 75% base AD + 50% AP procs. If you do that, then champions who shouldn't be building this item won't need to be balanced and nerfed around it.

4 Comments

MasqureMan3 votes

I don't think too many champions are based around lich bane. They get really good once they have it, yes, but that's the function of being a core item for some champs. TF is one example, and his game would be different without lich bane but he'd probably just move toward trinity force. You have to explain what you mean by sustained DPS AP champs too, because that makes me think of people like Ryze and Singed. You mentioned Ziggs, but I think he does his job just fine without a lich bane. It just really amplifies his passive and does indeed give him more consistent damage.

I think where the game is now, champs are balanced around certain items and certain items are balanced around champs. Locket got removed back in the day because Sona and Udyr could abuse it to high hell and the core of what the item was just too synergistic with their kits. At that point, you either change the champions so they don't benefit as much, change the item so it doesn't benefit them as much, or decide it would be better overall to remove it.

Now Locket was a rarity because it really was amplified by Udyr and Sona's cycle-based kits. Lich Bane, like you said, has many applications and reaches much further. I believe they did change Lich Bane due to this about a year ago and it was considered a nerf, but I doubt it will get removed.

Truly Prideful1 votes

RIP old Locket. Tank Gragas with that was just so unkillable as well.

Aside from AP TF, AP Fizz is one of the only things I can really think of that almost always builds Lich Bane. Most seem to have moved on to Luden's Echo at this point.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

RIP old Locket. Tank Gragas with that was just so unkillable as well.

Aside from AP TF, AP Fizz is one of the only things I can really think of that almost always builds Lich Bane. Most seem to have moved on to Luden's Echo at this point.

Sona, Ziggs, and AP Gragas all build Lich Bane.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

On the topic of Twisted Fate - his ultimate makes people wish to play him as an assassin. However, his kit flat out prevents him from doing this. The AP ratio on his W is low, his Q is good but his E is flat out terrible. It forces Twisted Fate to play as a more sustained damage champion, unless you simply move up your Stacked Deck counter right before you ult, which you can't do every time because your ult is often as spontaneous for you as it is surprising for the enemy.

When Twisted Fate is good, he's pick or ban in Korea because of how strong his ultimate is. But when he's bad...there's just not a lot you can do with him. In Twisted Fate's case specifically I think Stacked Deck should just be flat out removed and replaced with an ability that fits his playstyle, like this:

Trap Card (E) Mana Cost 55/65/75/85/95 Cooldown 10 seconds

Twisted Fate throws down a semi-visible trap at target ground location. After 0.5 seconds, it arms, and the next enemy to step on it takes magic damage and is slowed for 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds.

There you go. Now TF can Gate in, throw down his Trap, stun someone with his gold card, and they either have to fight him or walk through the trap. Much more of a burst assassin play style, and much less reliant on Lich Bane to capitalize on his ultimate. (The new E would be both a more reliable source of damage than stacked deck and also have a high AP ratio, encouraging TF to build more AP and not need Lich Bane).

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