Boards›Gameplay

This is not ok

PaffWasTaken··38 votes·12,763 views

https://i.imgur.com/68ygCKN.png[/img]

I don't care how many people who main her complain daily about her being weak. I don't care about her plants having wacky AI. In no way this champ is ok and nothing should keep her from getting some much needed nerfs. Having automatic turrets who sometimes don't focus champions doesn't change the fact that a champ who can perma poke from across the lane, who has a line CC with a barely visible hitbox and who has a nuke ult who can disrupt an entire teamfight along with dealing huge damage (support by the way) needs to be seriously tuned down.

Edit: Why are people even trying to argue by showing other supports who are also problematic? I'm not showcasing a balance problem for you to show other problems in a desperate attempt to protect your waifu and move the spotlight away from her so she can be the same oppressive atrocity for half the season. Also, don't try to justify her being alright by saying her E is bad(A single ability who is bad in a whole kit doesn't mean AT ALL that a champ shouldn't get nerfs either); it is only barely slower than Lux 's and Morgana 's Q while having more range than both and being much much harder to read, AKA its far from being as bad as you try to convince us.

97 Comments

Daddy Ants19 votes

Zyra's a CertainlyT champion...

Do you expect anything less than sheer oppresiveness?

Tomoe Gozen26 votes

Now, that's really unfair and honestly, a dumb argument to make. CertailyT's champions/reworks seem to irk people on sheer "overloaded" factor and fallback mechanics that counter counterplay itself and yet, Zyra doesn't even fulfill these two categories!

All she has is poke and damage - she's still a mage even you want to consider her as a support. You focus her and she has nothing to fall back to except to hope that she can rotate her entire skillset and get a kill in return, otherwise she's dead. Extremely immobile, squishy champion with no escapes, dashes, blinks, stealths or defensive abilities whatsoever.

Hibeki7 votes

Thats because hes not the sole designer. He was a codesign.

Zeyphel1 votes

[deleted]

floo1 votes

I think the point is, compared to other CT champs, she doesn't have a panic button. Yasuo W, Akali W, technically Zoe R and even Warwick E are pretty much instant safety measures.

Salron8 votes

DAE CERTAINLYT BAD

Lhuhz6 votes

Be careful, a bit more and your comment would be deleted

https://imgur.com/a/EbFRuLj

Edit: It doesn't show all for some reason, you have to click it

Salron3 votes

So this is what boards moderation has come to huh sad

nm10107 votes

Yeah some of the mods here are pretty bad about understanding harassment in context of a discussion board.

Rabbi Shekelberg1 votes

well my posts are constantly removed because of me calling a design "autistic" and "garbage". apparently it hurts someone's feelings.

Chromatic Eagle5 votes

Garbage might be too aggressive, but using autistic as a slur is messed up.

Z3Sleeper4 votes

Half the slurs in existence are derived from medical conditions yet due to pc culture we only censor certain ones, the main two being r%%%%%ation (<- edit: oh cool an auto censor, didn't know we had those) and autism.

Yet we don't censor dumb (unable to speak), blind, handicapped, AIDS, disabled, cancer, brain-dead, etc.

Just something to think about. PC culture is dumb for picking and choosing what's "too offensive" and what's not.

I don't blame the mods tho, they don't make the rules they just enforce them.

Support 4 Lyfe12 votes

Learn to dodge her E and she's a sitting duck, literally one of the slowest projectiles in-game, she's literally one of the most immobile champions all game, and if you can't dodge shit, just pick Leona into her and collect your free lp, literally everytime I get a Zyra, I pick Leona into her and all-in her the moment she tries to do anything.

Also, Thresh had a higher winrate/pick rate and yet he didn't get touched, he even got a "worlds patch buff" even though he was at 52% winrate at the time, he currently has 51.90% winrate and a WHOPPING 30% PICK RATE, where are the fucking complain threads about him? at patch 8.22 he was the HIGHEST picked support and the HIGHEST winrate support.

Marshbouy1 votes

I am always eager to complain about both thresh and zyra. Thresh's W is one of the more frustrating abilities to face in the bot lane and any competent bot lane WILL kill you if they land a single hook.

fuck that

Autrah Fang1 votes

{quoted}

Learn to dodge her E and she's a sitting duck, literally one of the slowest projectiles in-game, she's literally one of the most immobile champions all game, and if you can't dodge shit, just pick Leona into her and collect your free lp, literally everytime I get a Zyra, I pick Leona into her and all-in her the moment she tries to do anything.

Also, Thresh had a higher winrate/pick rate and yet he didn't get touched, he even got a "worlds patch buff" even though he was at 52% winrate at the time, he currently has 51.90% winrate and a WHOPPING 30% PICK RATE, where are the fucking complain threads about him? at patch 8.22 he was the HIGHEST picked support and the HIGHEST winrate support.

Thresh has been my most hated character since his release. Literally ban him every game I play in bot lane. However, I know complaining about him won't change anything, so why bother?

Rexxiee10 votes

Mage "supports" all need to be gutted.

PaffWasTaken2 votes

Agreed, but she, along with Brand, were there way before mages like Xerath were brought to bot lane. They are a problem who started without much impact and just grew in size every months

5050BS6 votes

Riot forced these champs to support with the up rise of Assassins mid

Glaricion1 votes

Support income needs to be gutted (along w/ everyone else's). If you want to pick something a bit carryish to support w/, cool. Just should be punished a lot more when you are unable to secure kills or open farm.

Marshbouy1 votes

support income is already ass. I don't know how you want to gut it more.

riot needs to remove the base damages from these champions (while giving better scaling) and buff supports that aren't damage based.

Glaricion1 votes

It is true that supports should be able to scale a bit, chaining a champ to one role & lane combo should (in my opinion) be a rare case. That being said, to function with a lowered income stream, support champions are usually given high base values at the cost of lower scaling /ratios.

There are definitely ways to allow for supports to scale, but to do that through income is to allow for another carry slot to open up in the game w/ minimal consequences.

Zardo10 votes

Zooms out a little bit:

15th /34 4.82% Support Zyra Pick Rate

Oh look bard is 2nd with a 52.12% winrate. He must be equally as broken.

deltemp9515129 votes

{quoted}

https://i.imgur.com/68ygCKN.png[/img]

I don't care about her plants having wacky AI. In no way this champ is ok and nothing should keep her from getting some much needed nerfs. Having automatic turrets who sometimes don't focus champions

The fact that you don't even know how her plants work means you have no right to talk on the subject. Stop bitching and learn how the champion works.

Her plants attack the enemy that is hit with her q or e. If q doesn't hit a champion, it attacks minions. If q hits champion, all plants focus on that champion.

Dodge her q and e JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CHAMPION and you won't get poked to death.

Daddy Ants3 votes

[{quoted}](name=RoG Seraph,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MJ3gU2gA,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-01-03T16:21:52.331+0000)

The fact that you don't even know how her plants work means you have no right to talk on the subject. Stop bitching and learn how the champion works.

Her plants attack the enemy that is hit with her q or e. If q doesn't hit a champion, it attacks minions. If q hits champion, all plants focus on that champion.

Dodge her q and e JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CHAMPION and you won't get poked to death.

Actually

Plants attack anything hit by Q, E or an auto attack from Zyra.

deltemp95151211 votes

{quoted}

Actually

Plants attack anything hit by Q, E or an auto attack from Zyra.

Wrong.

They prioritize champions hit by Q or E. They don't just attack at random.

Bob the Toastr6 votes

dOdgE hEr Q

Daddy Ants4 votes

https://i.gyazo.com/92a2955337814a436c7e0b57efe087a3.png

https://i.gyazo.com/010a518990564931a9b4137e87a96f50.png

https://i.gyazo.com/3373d15464c972554491ee54510700f1.png

https://i.gyazo.com/ecfb03051ae908fe9665af2816cfdf87.png

This is not ok either.

Empressor20 votes

imagine complaining about Sona when she's literally the lowest picked support lmao.

Zone of Endless3 votes

{quoted}

imagine complaining about Sona when she's literally the lowest picked support lmao.

Sona in 2019 lul

Ranmaru11 votes

{quoted}

https://i.gyazo.com/92a2955337814a436c7e0b57efe087a3.png

https://i.gyazo.com/010a518990564931a9b4137e87a96f50.png

https://i.gyazo.com/3373d15464c972554491ee54510700f1.png

https://i.gyazo.com/ecfb03051ae908fe9665af2816cfdf87.png

This is not ok either.

r/foundthezyramain

The Highest Noon3 votes

Long story short, "This champion is good nerf her" ...yup, another day another champion, it seems.

PaffWasTaken4 votes

There's a difference between "good" and "sitting at the top of the tier list for months". If you can't stand the fact that an oppressive champion deserves nerfs, then please at least don't try to convince people this champion is ok.

The Highest Noon2 votes

Right. How dare a champion with no shields, no heals, no CC aside from two easily avoided abilities elsewise no utilitize save for free mini-wards not be nerfed? Proposterous or however the word is spelled

ˆˇˉˇˆ6 votes

no CC

Are you new to League

The Highest Noon1 votes

aside from

Are you new to English language

Rathar Dashing3 votes

easily avoided

Again, are you new to league

Rathar Dashing2 votes

Well by that logic Jhin should never be nerfed when he's good. Hits all those same points you made.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MJ3gU2gA,comment-id=000b000000000001,timestamp=2019-01-03T23:57:17.581+0000)

Well by that logic Jhin should never be nerfed when he's good. Hits all those same points you made.

I do not see the logic in your correlation between a dedicated support being weak and a dedicated adc being strong lol

Rathar Dashing2 votes

If a champion with, by your words, has no shields, no heals, no CC aside from two easily avoided abilities, and no utility outside of wards is balanced by these facts alone, regardless of winrates and other aspects of their kit, then Jhin is fine and always has been.

Zyra is strong, even with all those "handicaps" you listed. Plus, she has more than 2 forms of CC, she has an undodgeable slow on her plants if she wakes them up with her E.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MJ3gU2gA,comment-id=000b00000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-04T00:26:43.335+0000)

If a champion with, by your words, has no shields, no heals, no CC aside from two easily avoided abilities, and no utility outside of wards is balanced by these facts alone, regardless of winrates and other aspects of their kit, then Jhin is fine and always has been.

Ah, I see the issue. The problem is that Jhin is not Zyra. She is an AP support. He is an ADC. Not only that, but he has much more utility in this kit than she does. She has only what I listed. He, on the other hand, has almost twice as much to his design.

Zyra is strong, even with all those "handicaps" you listed. Plus, she has more than 2 forms of CC, she has an undodgeable slow on her plants if she wakes them up with her E.

You missed the point. Zyra is strong BECAUSE she has all those handicaps. I hope this helps you understand what balance means win video games.

Rathar Dashing2 votes

No, you missed the point. The point is that Zyra is too strong despite her handicaps. If they made a champion with zero CC, no dash, no heal, no shield, no vision or utility, but was still at a constantly high winrate despite these things, would you not agree that the champion is overpowered?

I hope this helps you understand what balance means win video games.

Don't patronize me. Especially when you can't spell things correctly.

The Highest Noon1 votes

No, I wouldn't agree. Again, because you missed it the first time, Zyra is strong BECAUSE she has those handicaps. I hope this helps you understand what balance means win video games. If not, well...sorry for your learning deficiency.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

If not, well...sorry for your learning deficiency.

Oh, personal attacks, the death rattle of a lost argument.

You're not listening to what I'm saying. Zyra is allowed to have high damage, and consistency to make up for her handicaps. But, at the moment, she has too much power and not enough handicap. This is what they call an imbalance. The reason I used Jhin as an example was because he had similar issues in the past. He has plenty of handicaps, such as single target damage, reload time, unable to gain attack speed, etc. but he wasn't dealing enough damage to make up for these things and was consistently getting behind. Then he got buffed, and then came Stromrazor, a reworked Rageblade and Hail of Blades. Then the opposite was true. Despite Jhin's high number of handicaps, he was still dealing too much damage and was having too much movement speed, leading to his very high winrate. Luckily, now things seem to have settled down a bit and Jhin isn't as overpowered as he once was.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MJ3gU2gA,comment-id=000b000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-04T01:49:16.343+0000)

Oh, personal attacks, the death rattle of a lost argument.

More like "impersonal" attack, since I always toss it out whenever people don't understand anything I'm saying as simply as possible, but continue.

You're not listening to what I'm saying. Zyra is allowed to have high damage, and consistency to make up for her handicaps. But, at the moment, she has too much power and not enough handicap. This is what they call an imbalance. The reason I used Jhin as an example was because he had similar issues in the past. He has plenty of handicaps, such as single target damage, reload time, unable to gain attack speed, etc. but he wasn't dealing enough damage to make up for these things and was consistently getting behind. Then he got buffed, and then came Stromrazor, a reworked Rageblade and Hail of Blades. Then the opposite was true. Despite Jhin's high number of handicaps, he was still dealing too much damage and was having too much movement speed, leading to his very high winrate. Luckily, now things seem to have settled down a bit and Jhin isn't as overpowered as he once was.

I don't really understand why you believe she should be strong because her kit is garbage yet argue that she should be weak. Hella contradictory, my dude.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Simplicity isn't always the best way to argue a nuanced situation. Especially when you seem to ignore my points and just restate yours. Furthermore, there isn't really ever a need for an attack on me personally, that's just rude, my dude.

I'm not saying that she should be strong, or that she should be weak. I'm saying she should be balanced. A champion with a lacking kit in terms of what they can do usually make up for it in damage, consistency, and other areas, which Zyra does. She has handicaps, which justify her strengths. What I'm saying is that currently, her strengths (damage, range, consistency, AoE, zoning) outweigh her weaknesses (the things you mentioned). This is why I say she's unbalanced. No contradictions there.

The Highest Noon1 votes

And I disagree. What now?

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MJ3gU2gA,comment-id=000b0000000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-04T03:47:59.933+0000)

You have a difference of opinion. That's fine. I don't know what you expected would happen.

I expected something about something something I'unno actually. I just don't feel that she's a problem. Her abilities are trash, her overall damage is trash, but she's reliable and people can make her work. Nerf her any more and I might as well not even consider her anything but a minion worth more money lol

Beast Brawler4 votes

You know Zyra has a snare and a bigass AoE knockup right? If she takes Rylai's Crystal Scepter, which she should, then the cc abilities are MUCH easier to land. By the by, you did spell preposterous correctly so good job.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beast Brawler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MJ3gU2gA,comment-id=000b000000000002,timestamp=2019-01-04T03:43:24.099+0000)

You know Zyra has a snare and a bigass AoE knockup right? If she takes Rylai's Crystal Scepter, which she should, then the cc abilities are MUCH easier to land. By the by, you did spell preposterous correctly so good job.

Ayyy thanks it was an effort but I didn't wanna just google it.

Her CC are hella easy to avoid until she gets a slow rod, but at that point she shouldn't even be a problem because she would've gotten facerolled already lol

Beast Brawler2 votes

Well her being fed isn't the issue, it's that by that point she's gonna slow you and cc you and enable everyone else on her team to beat you to a mushy pulp with meat chunks and bone fragments.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by PaffWasTaken

Riot recently made the best addition ARAM ever got just to remove it mere days later...
Gameplay231 comments
232
votes
Nothing feels worse than loving a champion who isn't on Riot's favorite list
Gameplay312 comments
178
votes
Petition to make reworked Aatrox sometimes say "Unstoppable by the way" when he gets Cced
Gameplay30 comments
173
votes
Pink wards actually feel tankier than quite a bit of champions right now
Gameplay83 comments
166
votes
Weekly reminder that Riot removed ARAM bans because ARAM account users weren't happy about it
Gameplay126 comments
161
votes
Weekly reminder that Riot removed ARAM bans even if they greatly enhanced the game experience
Gameplay92 comments
157
votes