So Tank Veigar is a thing...

CitadelOfIce·Jul 10, 2016·9 votes·6,648 views

Just played against a Veigar. Was pretty terrifying and hard to deal with.

50 Comments

The Bearded BardJul 10, 20168 votes

if Nasus can do it why not veigar?

Only Play DariusJul 10, 20161 votes

Because Nasus is melee, must stay in lane to stack, and his stacking damage is tied to a single ability as opposed to his entire kit. The supposed tradeoff is that Nasus is allowed to be hard to kill unlike Veigar, but if this Veigar build is real (and I don't think it is) then that is no longer the case and completely breaks game balancing.

Very Hard EngageJul 10, 20165 votes

the most predominant reason being veigar has a longer Q CD and much higher mana constraints. lower base health pool, armor and MR.

hes completely dependent on items to get tanky. meaning if he ever falls behind hes irrelevant outside of being a stun bot for his team. it could be useful, but the majority of the time he makes it a 4v5.

enemy banshees veil still puts him into the dirt.

still crushed in a 1v1.

you expect limitless AP but in reality he will have less than 400 AP(more with rab cap but then hes not full tank now is he) and thats nothing, his scaling is very lackluster, he really needs tremendous 900+ AP to start hitting hard with his abilities.

and lets be reasonable here, its not always a 50min game, you DIDNT kill 400 minions either, let alone Q farm for all of it. and even if you are landing ability after ability on enemy champs you arent winning because of your build, its just veigar stun and solid team work. you are not a good source of damage for your team, just a distraction and a zoner.

overall tank veigar just doesnt work and its why its not done, anywhere.

you can claim to pull it off all the time or it works, but do it in ranked for 50 games and tell me what your win/losses are.

here is OP's game in question http://i.imgur.com/p4m1qBo.png

what we can see is it was a 53min game, and a low ranking one at that. in addition the enemy team has built very little MR.

in addition tank veigar was on the losing side

Have a Nice GameJul 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

you can claim to pull it off all the time or it works, but do it in ranked for 50 games and tell me what your win/losses are.

Sorry couldn't resist

https://s32.postimg.org/4pjyvmeth/Season_6_Weeaboo_Sword.png

Also Sona Tank Top OP

Very Hard EngageJul 10, 20163 votes

cs doesn't lie, you were playing carry/solo lane.

in addition when you were doing this 1/5/8 (win) isn't something to scoff at, 1/5/20 win 3/6/15 loss 5/3/25 win 6/5/5 loss 5/5/10 win 5/3/9 win 9/6/15 win 4/7/11 loss 6/1/13 win

overall you are just a bully top lane, you aren't going support. you're doing a limited cheese strat which has been entirely hit/miss based on your enemy laner and the fact that the enemy jungler decides to camp and farm you or not.

Have a Nice GameJul 10, 20161 votes

I'm a little confused. I played Veigar Mid.

Or are you talking about Sona? In that case, the only people Tank Sona had issues with were people with really high sustain (ie Trundle, Mundo, Etc)

And even then, you can sustain and stall the lane.

Most of my Sona deaths were from either the few support games I attempted or from when I tanked damage for my team (ie splitting off making the enemy team come after me so the other 4 live because it takes 15+ seconds to kill me if they even manage to catch me)

Edit: I chose Sona top because one night as I was falling asleep, Dyrus was talking about how you needed to be adaptable for top lane.

Sona has sustain Sona has easy, semi controllable harass Sona has CC Sona has auras for team fights Sona can go AP/AD/Tank due to Sheen upgrades and passive proc

What else do you want from her to make her viable top?

Very Hard EngageJul 10, 20161 votes

i was talking about tank sona.

what im getting at... is you're not winning and your team isn't benefiting moreso for you building tanky, but rather through the course of the game it was beneficial to have an alive sona and catch people with your AoE ult.

you yourself aren't doing anything or having a meaningful impact other than your ult and your auras.

and i only looked at your "tank sona with tp and cs games" not your support games. look your tanky sona won 7/10 games, great, but its not tank sona getting you wins, its sona cheese in the top lane.

Have a Nice GameJul 10, 20161 votes

Now I'm even more confused.

You're saying Sona top is only good for her ult and auras and nothing else

But it did win games, so I'm wondering what is the issue you're trying to bring up about it @_@

Only Play DariusJul 10, 20161 votes

Ok go ahead and keep abusing Sona top, give Riot a reason to buff melee toplaners again like they did Irelia oh wait people are complaining about her now aren't they? The hypocrisy is real.

Have a Nice GameJul 10, 20162 votes

Y'Know she isn't as effective versus Darius Nasus Garen due to sustain. At best, she can stalemate the lane.

Why so bitter?

Note:

She is strong against Riven Fiora Jax because they don't have sustain early lane phase and its more about mind games of when to proc Sona's passive versus them using parry or shield.

She is also weak to Pantheon Olaf Tryndamere due to being a sustain versus heavy kill lane.

Very Hard EngageJul 10, 20162 votes

were trying to tell you this has limited success and falls flat on its face later on due to play style adaptations, keep doing it to climb if you think this has merit. you will see what we mean eventually.

NineTailedMysticJul 11, 20161 votes

900+ AP? His base damages are solid, and his ratios are pretty bonkers.

Very Hard EngageJul 11, 20161 votes

average ADC has 1600~2000hp between bases and build. and between 35% magic damage reduction (no mr) and 50% damage reduction (maw/merc scim/ga/banshees veil) etc, well assume 45% with just a merc scim.

lets say veigar has 400AP and weve reached very late game 40+mins (he wont, but well say he does).

230 + 300 + (160%) = 530 + 640 = 1170, factor in MR and he now does 643.5damage, subtract the remaining from his HP, ADC has between 950hp and 1350hp (between 60% and 68% of his health left) so now you ult. ult will deal 325 + 75% + 1.5% for each missing %, so ult does an extra 60%(from 1600) or 48%.(from 2000) 325(base) + 300(scaling) + 375(bonus) = 1000, now factor in MR its down to 550, so you deal 643.5 + 550 or 1193.5 damage to the 1 MR ADC. he has 407 remaining health.

325 + 300 + 299.52 bonus = 924.52damage, factor in MR = 508.4 damage, total is now 841.6 remaining health out of 2000.

congrats, you blew your stack and the adc is still not dead.

meaning veigar cant even kill the squishiest member of the enemy team, therefore you are still just a stun bot and a distraction, not a carry

being completely realistic banshees/merc scim means you wont land your stun, and therefore you wont land your meteor missing out on a very large chunk of damage (your ult will be further reduced down) and you will have to wait even longer to try again or you will do substantially less damage over the course of the fight, and needless to say you will be burnt very fast by the adc(you're missing a tank item and you did go for mixed resistances so you are being crit hard 700+) so long as he isn't stunned in addition to their lifesteal.

i know what im talking about, you clearly need to play this to understand it, you need to build AP to kill carries and actually be useful to your team as veigar, otherwise you are just a stun bot and should go support so we can actually have a useful top laner.

NineTailedMysticJul 11, 20161 votes

400 AP? Wat. I never specified Tank Veigar. An average APC hits ~700 on a normal build.

You also forgot to factor in TLD

You clearly need to play it to understand it.

I'm a OTP, but my second most played mid laner is Veigar, thanks.

Very Hard EngageJul 11, 20161 votes

then you weren't playing tank veigar now were you, so stop talking, your opinion here is irrelevant, i just proved his bases and ratios are trashy alone.

he NEEDS substantial AP gains to be effective.

NineTailedMysticJul 11, 20161 votes

So hostile. So much anger.

RockmanJul 10, 20166 votes

If you had literally any MR he isn't useful.

JetjoeJul 10, 20162 votes

Agreed, even the adcs and squishies could probably get away that game with their final item as spirit or banshees more over.

CherysseJul 10, 20161 votes

He is, his damage will keep go and on scaling and he will just spam powers at your face.

Also whenever I play him tank I build one of these 2: item 3115 or item 3100 the AP scaling fucks my enemies so much, it is really funny

CitadelOfIceJul 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you had literally any MR he isn't useful.

It was more the unkillable CC. Even if you chunked him he would walk out with his stun and just heal out of combat for a second or two and walk back in at almost full.

CherysseJul 10, 20161 votes

He still deals a ton of damage, scaling AP :v

redniwediSJul 10, 20165 votes

That build requires him to stack AP. Looks like his lane opponent didn't do their job.

RisenDarkKnightJul 10, 20161 votes

How do you push a champ out of lane that is ranged and has been stacking defensive stats? Even if the lane opponent dodges every skillshot and doesn't give up any kills, veigar can just stay in lane and Q minions from a safe distance. He doesn't have the vunerability of squishy mage veigar.

USG FailsawceJul 10, 20164 votes

so any particular reason you couldn't build a banshees, abyssal, or mercs and make him 100% useless?

i don't see the problem here... how is this even a thread?

RisenDarkKnightJul 10, 20161 votes

The problem is he has an aoe 2.5 second stun, and is a ranged champion who is kiting you while being very tanky. He can easily get 500 ap with just those items from his passive, while AP veigar will only have around 1100, so he's doing half as much damage as AP veigar while living 4-5x as long if he gets focused. With warmogs he can back off and heal up if he gets low then come back in and do his combo again.

I play tank veigar and it works rather well since he can stack sooo much free AP vs melee champs. You can get 8 ap per wave if you last hit every creep with a q, plus another 1 per spell you land on the enemy champ. You also get a minimum of 3 ap per assist/kill.

You can just stand if front of your adc being tanky, using your stun to peel for him and blow up a squishy with his combo then continue to fire Qs at anyone who comes close.

warpenguin555Jul 10, 20162 votes

who woulda thought? jk

BLYAT moon AkaliJul 10, 20162 votes

fulltank with 100 ap every 10 minutes. great champion design.

JetjoeJul 10, 20162 votes

Thats a pretty shitty build, hes just a rock.

If I had to go tank veigar, item 3027 item 3116 item 3151 item 3089 item 3135 item 3083

xeviJul 10, 20161 votes

That isn't "tank" veigar tho. Slightly less squishy viegar but definitely not tanky.

JetjoeJul 10, 20161 votes

Without warmogs its 3000 health, with it its 3800 health and I skipped an item/left it out.

Thats pretty damn tanky. I would just throw thornmail on if shoes arent needed.

xeviJul 10, 20161 votes

You don't have shoes in the build you provided.

The first build given is good bc of the resistances; not to mention, the cdr frozen heart which is the first item gives two necessary stats to veigar: cdr and mana. It allows him to consistently poke for a decent period of time which helps him scale.

With the resistances, health, and league condom, tank veigar can constantly poke late game from a range without having to risk much.

Plus FroHeart rush as top lane veigar makes him much harder to kill than RoA top lane veigar.

JetjoeJul 10, 20161 votes

I provided 5 items, you can use boots and sell them later. given veigar is an assasin, he may not NEED that much movement speed later in the game, although, if so is the case, he can get shoes I have only filled 5 slots

His Job is to assassinate someone. As proved by others the low ap is a flaw. Veigar needs to be able to stun the team during team fights and take out anyone squishy fast. Poking them down late game sounds stupid.

The build I suggested has 480 AP + Farmed ap + 35% bonus from death cap. 35 % penetration +15 penetration from liandrys and 3000 health. Tanks usually take time to take down someone with 3000 health.

xeviJul 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I provided 5 items, you can use boots and sell them later. given veigar is an assasin, he may not NEED that much movement speed later in the game, although, if so is the case, he can get shoes I have only filled 5 slots

You provided six items lmao. And veigar is not an assassin. Sure he can insta-gib squishies. But so can a lot of other mages.

{quoted}

His Job is to assassinate someone. As proved by others the low ap is a flaw. Veigar needs to be able to stun the team during team fights and take out anyone squishy fast. Poking them down late game sounds stupid.

In your original post,

{quoted}

Thats a pretty shitty build, hes just a rock.

If I had to go tank veigar,

Now you're saying that the build you have provided is "assassin veigar" We're talking about tank veigar. The build you gave is not tank veigar.

{quoted} The build I suggested has 480 AP + Farmed ap + 35% bonus from death cap. 35 % penetration +15 penetration from liandrys and 3000 health. Tanks usually take time to take down someone with 3000 health.

A great number of tanks have a %health dmg and tend to have trouble taking anyone down anyways. I actually expect a regular veigar with zhonyas and boots to last longer. A Veigar 3000+ health with no resistances, no ms, and no escapes. lol

It's not a bad build. It's just not tank veigar or very tanky for that matter

JetjoeJul 10, 20161 votes

My mistake I usually skip void staff and leave that spot open. Veigar is an assassin... thats the point of his kit as well as most other midlaners is.

The build I gave is tank/assassin veigar. 3800 health is enough to be considered tanky.

the 3800 damage lets him sustain damage from mages since mages have limited burst, yet he has the AP to burst them down, same with ADCS, it will take them 5-6 basic attacks before they can burst him down, before that he can kill them. And it gives enough health to deal with other tanks also.

Have a Nice GameJul 10, 20161 votes

But there are no shoes in that initial build ._.

SasogwaJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Thats a pretty shitty build, hes just a rock.

If I had to go tank veigar,

That's not tanky at all though, you're just a meat tank with HP and no resistances whatsoever. Only good against true damage and somewhat ok against burst. Also hardly any cdr, which is like the best stat for utility Veigar (and even Veigar in general). I don't really get the liandrys since you have no dot spells.

Friendly RamJul 10, 20161 votes

Wow full tank + 1.35 ap a stack= lots of pain.

TTK DreadnoughtJul 10, 20161 votes

I've done it before a while back. Had the thought that if Nasus could do it, why can't veigar?

48983507DEL1Jul 10, 20161 votes

...but did it work?

MunchCrunchLunchJul 10, 20161 votes

one time the enemy team was full ap. i bought banshees and abyssal. they couldn't kill me but i had 1k ap.

RisenDarkKnightJul 10, 20161 votes

I play tank veigar, but I build RoA first, as the catalyst passive is really good. After that, I pretty much follow that build except I don't build deathcap. 45% cdr Veigar is really good even without any ap items. If you play it top lane vs a melee tank, you can stack up so much free AP from just poking the enemy with spells. I usually get over 500 ap with just RoA and his passive.

Lord DesertJul 10, 20161 votes

You are all NOOBS!!! Ill show you a real EVIL Veigar Build MUAHAHAHAHAHAH item 3089 , item 3100 , item 3152 , + pick boots and 2 tank items, I would recommend item 3026 and a Hp item depening on enemy team item 3143 , item 3102 , item 3053 , item 3083 , for a little more ms mix in a item 3742 or item 3285 . Use runes to hit cdr cap. If you have over 9000 Ap you can change deathcap for a second GA for fun >:DDDDDD

1 shot enemys with AAs, Qs, Ws, Rs and get random Pentas by jumping with item 3152 in their faces >:D This, my friends, is real MADNESS MUAHAHA Enjoy! No need to thank me >:D

PhenyxsJul 10, 20161 votes

That build has been around for awhile. So is upcoming tank ap, tank assassins, tank tank, . Not joking, the key is surviving a fight. Hell I went part tank Yas till they ff.

Only Play DariusJul 10, 20161 votes

A couple of defensive items on Yasuo isn't uncommon and highly recommended if you aren't winning hard, especially if you played him toplane.

Have a Nice GameJul 10, 20161 votes

There just happens to be a lot of damage

I happen to play Veigar with:

15% flat cdr and flat mana regen seals from runes 5% flat cdr, mana regen, and health regen from masteries (06/18/06 - Stormraider's) item 3001 or item 3157 and item 3158 - Abyssal by Default for MR reduction & 146 Armor+160 MR/Lv18 (You can just get item 3108 & -> Deathcap in an easy match-up) ( item 3165 & item 3020 if they have a Vlad or something) item 3089 item 3135 AP & Pen item 3143 item 3102 Because fuck you damage dealers

Still an easy 750-1000+ AP per game

noname9888Jul 10, 20161 votes

anything is a thing

BloodyTomponJul 11, 20161 votes

That name though

TheOvermindJul 11, 20161 votes

I think I'm gonna start rushing frozen heart and instead of Morello now. They both give 400 mana and 20 % cdr so. Then dcap and void staff and lichbar and finish off with spirit visage and mercs/ tabi . Unkillable , does insane dmg

CitadelOfIceJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think I'm gonna start rushing frozen heart and instead of Morello now. They both give 400 mana and 20 % cdr so. Then dcap and void staff and lichbar and finish off with spirit visage and mercs/ tabi . Unkillable , does insane dmg

Sounds legit.