Anyone else feel the tear of the goddess items are lack luster?

CitadelOfIce·Jan 10, 2016·76 votes·5,192 views

The AP Tear item isn't bad, but it dose seem to fall short if you haven't built an other mana item, and thats the problem. There are very few mana items left in the game and each are kind of role specific. Its hard to synergise with but not impossible for non burst mages. The real problem is the AD version of the Tear, Manamune. It just doesn't feel like it belongs with the other new AD items. It feels like its missing stats for its relatively low AD.

This is probably just my idea but why don't they make its recipe include a and bump the AD up to 65 from 25. Or if you wanted to go the more OP rout add a bump the AD to 50 and give it 10% CDR. Naturally they should bump the cost to match but I just think that this item needs a little more to stay viable.

Also when they do the immobile mages rework it would be nice to add in some more flat mana items.

71 Comments

K54Jan 10, 201615 votes

item 3042 is the highest damage dealing AD item in the game. Even without it's active. Of all the champions that use this item, Yorick has the lowest mana at level 18 at 888.8 + 1000 for muramana making it 1888.8 So you take 2% of 1888.8 which is 37.776 then add 25 to give this item = 62.776 damage

The highest AD items in the game item 3072 item 3074 at 75 damage.

75 - 62 = 13 damage difference.

When you toggle the active, you consume 3% of current mana, then add double for your AA. From 1888 you're doing 90+ damage all the way down to 1500 mana (roughly 8 attacks). Add that 90 to the base 62 damage for an item with an attack damage rating of 152 - 175 damage per attack (starting from full mana down to 1500). The item does At a measly 200 mana left, you're doing 12 bonus damage, which is 1 less than the best AD items the game has to offer.

This isn't including 400 - 900 mana he'll get from building item 3110 item 3025

Champs that use this item with a larger mana pool Ezreal Jayce have even more damage they're putting out. Combine it with an item 3508 item 3078 and you're melting opponents with a few AAs.

The tear items are ridiculously OP, both of them.

ThryaleJan 10, 201631 votes

the problem is when you get access to that damage. for the same cost of the muramana, you can get more immediate damage, and in this snowbally meta, the wait time on muramana is just not an option.

K54Jan 10, 20165 votes

Still works for me, even if the games ends before I reach that 750 mark simply because the champs I use this item for are Ezreal Jayce Yorick and I can melt my lane opponent early game (hasn't failed me yet) by spamming my abilities. Especially considering the ridiculous amount of damage these champs do per combo.

With Jayce and Yorick, you can 100 - 40 your lane opponent with 1 combo and be extremely oppressive. They can also safely work you under your turret. This goes for top and mid lane.

Ezreal is a little more difficult, but if you're accurate, it only takes him about 7 - 10 good QW pokes (maybe even throw an E in there if you're feeling confident) to make your opponent recall. Unlike Jayce, Yorick there is no safety in being under your turret because you know that ult is coming.

Lastly, when I'm playing this champs, I focus purely on farm (if you go to my match history and search specifically for Yorick, Jayce, Ezreal) consistently finish this item on average around the 8 minute mark (sometimes 7, sometimes 9). Minions get to the lane at about 1:50, so that's only 5 - 7 minutes of farming to complete your 1st item. Only takes about 10 minutes to get that 750, so at most you're at the 20 minute mark and you should have at least 2 more full built items and shoes by then.

jama655Jan 10, 20165 votes

ur good

LordGeovanniJan 11, 20161 votes

if your champion uses alot of mana for spell or you jsut want to out poke your enemy you can finish muraman before they do their large ad item and have an advantage over them while building upon your mana and mana regen to out fight and out last your enemy and by time you enemy can get their hydra or black cleaver built you will have your muraman with 200 stacks and you starting another item the reason people dont get the benifiets is that they dont build it first item and as soon as possible and there is an interaction that is usefull for hybrid champions if you have a fully charged item 3042 when you build another item 3070 which should be built before you finish item 3004 to gain its extra 1 mana per 8 seconds saves about 2 -4 mins in the stacks but back to the point if you have or item 3003 the chargeing passive from auto attacks remain from though im not sure if it stacks at 8 mana per auto when you have over all it will lead to faster stacking and having both of them fully stacked before 42 mins if you got your first tear before 7 mins and your second before your item 3004 was finished stacking. though you will have to taker care not to combine for item 3003 before item 3042 is done charging or it will add on about 5-8 mins in charging both as item 3040 will take priority.

JAGMAGJan 11, 20161 votes

honestly i stack my tear fully in almost every game i play with it....the problem i would say is that the ap tear does feel bad without an Roa and the damge on the ad one just dosent feel good ever XD even with it activated at full build i feel like im barely scratching anyone

Shiyo KozukiJan 11, 20162 votes

If they're so overpowered why are they never built? Because they aren't good.

Sire HippingtonJan 10, 201611 votes

Seraphs is great, it just suffers from the game pace changes, as it works best together with roa, which is alot delayed scaleing. The lack of good cdr-options besides morello's and athene's also hurts a bit.

Muraman just is bad. There are little items with mana that work together with it, and mostly the active works against it's purpose. It creats as much mana issues as it solves. If i buy a tear, i want mana. I want mana so i can stay effective in prolonged fights rather than running oom. The muramana active just does the opposite, it gets weaker the longer the fight goes, which just feels bad. it also sucks that you either need spamable singletarget skills or good AS to really use the active well. Aditionally, it needs longer to charge than AA and gives less power till fully charged.

ItsCalledALanceJan 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ft7MvYnN,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2016-01-10T23:26:10.129+0000)

Seraphs is great, it just suffers from the game pace changes, as it works best together with roa, which is alot delayed scaleing. The lack of good cdr-options besides morello's and athene's also hurts a bit.

Muraman just is bad. There are little items with mana that work together with it, and mostly the active works against it purpose. It creats as much mana issues as it solves. If i buy a tear, i want mana. I want mana so i can stay effective in prolonged fights rather than running oom. The muramana active just does the opposite, it gets weaker the longer the fight goes, which just feels bad. it also sucks that you either need spamable singletarget skills or good AS to really use the active well. Aditionally, it needs longer to charge than AA and ives less power till fully charged.

Its yet another example of something with High potential that Riot fucked right in the face. It could be a decent go-to item for champs with mana problems, But like you pointed out, its a bad go-to item that counters itself.

QuephaJan 10, 20169 votes

Archangel seems fine to me but Manamune seems to get nerfed every time a champion even thinks about building it.

PDE5 InhibitorsJan 10, 20164 votes

The AP team items gives more AP than anything besides deathcap...

MunchCrunchLunchJan 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhibitors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ft7MvYnN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-10T19:47:14.290+0000)

The AP team items gives more AP than anything besides deathcap...

it actually gives more AP than deathcap if you have other mana sources. i think one time it gave me like 160-180 AP on singed.

Sire HippingtonJan 10, 20163 votes

well, if you get more ap items, rabadons easily tops those values, so thats not much of a point...with only 200 aditonal ap, rabadons already give more than 200ap

SerevasJan 10, 20163 votes

They feel weak because they're stacking items

For example, the common Jayce build used to be item 3042 item 3142 item 3071 Old LW, Boots of your choice, and often times BT or the old ER.

The item was on it's own, no additional sources of mana, but the extended mana pool was necessary. You'd have close to 2k mana netting you around 40 damage, and the item then gave you 65 AD on it's own.

That's Ghostblade currently, so they're actually pretty good, especially when you consider you only dropped 2400g into the item. When comparable AD items run you up around 3k

K54Jan 10, 20161 votes

Not to mention the OP damage if you decide to toggle the passive! I normally build my Jayce with an item 3025 , so you can make that 40 bonus damage 50, making it equal to a item 3072 or item 3074 .

SerevasJan 11, 20162 votes

I prefer to run a mostly glass cannon build on Jayce

What I do now is typically item 3042 item 3071 item 3142 item 3156 item 3158 Then last Item is usually item 3072 item 3139 item 3026 item 3036 depending on what is needed.

Let's you run straight into that CDR cap, solid damage, not bad for survivability, and it lets you poke hard before fights.

K54Jan 11, 20161 votes

Because Jayce gets a ridiculous amount of bonus AD from item 3042 and his passive with my build, I can still instagib any squishy with my FIRE BALL FROM THE GATE OF HELL and I scare off tanks in my elo with the 20% percent max health magic damage + 100% of attack damage, because when you're building armor against a champ that has all AD items and still lose a large chunk of health you start to second guess the engagement. People who have knowledge of Jayce, know that MR is necessary.

Without further ado, my OP build is item 3042 item 3072 item 1306 item 3065 item 3025 item 3078

SerevasJan 11, 20161 votes

Well I wouldn't recommend the double spellblade effects personally, but I can see the niche for the build.

The thing that keeps me holding on to my build is the flat penetration for the most part. That 30 flat pen is insane.

I'm currently experimenting with a runepage that runs 10% CDR to start so I can opt for item 3009 item 3047 item 3111 as needed, and I'm also considering Deadman's plate as an optional final item to give him a bit more survivability when I jump into a fight. The build will give more of a bruiser feel, but still carry some substantial damage as well.

Jayce definitely needs an MR item if there's anything beyond a magic damage based support on the enemy team, he's half ranged so he doesn't get scaling MR, Sure Jayce gets free MR from his Hammer Stance, but it's not really helpful if you're getting poked at while poking yourself in cannon stance.

SteelflameJan 11, 20163 votes

The items are fine. The time it takes to build them up is what isn't. Seraphs is the highest AP in the game that isn't a late Rabadon built with over 500 AP or so, and is far more efficient than Rabadon price wise. The super-synergy with RoA + Rabadon on the 3 items leads to double stacking the multiples almost, easily pushing you into 500-600 AP for 3 items, along with massive mana and some decent hp.

It just is giving up 720 gold early game is rather big right now, because you can't afford to lose even a second with the super-snowball meta we have going right now.

ZT XperimentorJan 10, 20162 votes

Yeah I'd say they're underused, but I wouldn't say their overpowered nor underpowered; perhaps some slight tweaks with number nudging, but they seem fine enough. So here's a thought experiemnt; what's the highest max mana you could get without duplicate items? I think the biggest mana pool you could get would be ~5000, using these as core items item 3042 item 3040 item 3027 However there's several problems with doing this;

Costly, both in time & in gold; to get both the seraph's embrace & muramana, you have to grind up their lower form until fully charged before buying the other. The rod of ages still takes 10 minutes after you buy it, so I'd suggest picking up the rod of ages after building manamune or archangel's staff. Even then it's roughly going to be a minimum of a half-hour grinding both up since you have to do them one at a time.
Cripplingly limiting; that's half your item slots, leaving little wiggle room to do anything else with your build.
Too few hybrids; only a handful of champions can completely benefit from such a late game build (ryze, kassadin, blitzcrank, singed, swain, ext). It's attack damage, ability power, and mana; conventional hybrids like jax & kayle would be better off taking other hybrid items like the gunblade or rageblade.
Percentage power; while the rod of ages is a bunch of flat bonuses; the other two items boost attack damage & ability power by a small percent of max mana (2%ad & 3%ap). Which means early game is noticeably weaker for an item of the same value, and fully charged is almost compatible on their own; but combined all 3 together will outclass any single item of the specialized nature. At 4000 mana, the muramana is giving a total bonus 105 (25+2%MaxMana) attack damage, and the seraph's embrace giving 200 (80+3%MaxMana) ability power; while the mercurial scimitar is at 75 attack damage, and the rabadon's deathcap at 120 ability power.
Meta dependant; again it's severely a late game build, but with the carry & assassins buffs, games barely last to mid game anymore; by the time you buy one of them it'll probably be over.

bobsenbobJan 10, 20162 votes

change mana mune to : tear of the goddess+BF Sword+1050 g 50 ad 250 mana 50% mana regen Unique – Mana Charge: Grants +8 maximum mana (max +750 mana) for each spell cast and mana expenditure (occurs up to 2 times every 8 seconds). Unique --Grants AD ecquivalent to 2% max mana Transforms into Muramana at Full stacks

Fanny ForecastJan 10, 20162 votes

The problem isnt that tear items are lackluster. There's no problem with them. They're situational.

Ward and PeelJan 11, 20161 votes

^ question answered

The Yetii RiderJan 11, 20162 votes

Mana items in the game: item 3100 - It's not role specific, pretty much any champion with an AP ratio can use it. Some players may argue that it's "not worth it" if you don't regularly use the Spellblade passive, but 90 AP, 10% CDR, 250 mana and 5% MS are a nice good group of stats so it's fine.

item 3003 - This item is amazing. The issue that most people have with it is that item 3070 gives you no offensive stats and no defensive stats, making rushing it (which is when you need it) a very poor decision as it puts you very behind your opponent, especially if you intend to complete the Archangels, which means you're sitting on another 1250 gold before you get item 1058 , so about 1900 gold needs to be farmed before you even have any power. This would suggest, of course, that the item is most powerful in the jungle where you can safely farm and increase your stacks without worrying about the stats of your item, but with Tracker's Knife giving 180% Mana Regen while in the jungle next patch, it feels like a waste.

item 3042 - The damage is NOT the problem with this item, holy shit is is not the problem. Muramana does so much damage it is disgusting. The problem is that its mana regeneration is ABYSMAL. 25% mana regeneration on a fully upgraded item? An item you upgraded from a Faerie Charm, which gives you 25% mana regen for 125 gold? Is Riot serious here? I get that AD champions are supposed to be gated by mana, but come on! This item is supposed to exist because some AD champions want to sink their gold into mana sustain, don't make them waste all that money and item slot and not even reward them for the effort!

item 3041 - Sadly, this item doesn't really give enough mana to justify it in a final build, but it's good if you only need a little extra along with a lot of AP.

item 3025 - Great item. 20% CDR (all the mages are complaining about there not being enough CDR items atm) and a good chunk of armor. Plus mana. What's not to love here?

item 3027 - 120 AP, 500 Health, 800 mana. And a heal whenever you level up. This item is gold.

item 3110 - Huge amount of armor. An AS slow aura that will benefit your whole team (utility if you're not a support, what a concept I know) and 20% CDR. Plus mana. Enjoy it!

There's no problem with mana itemization right now. Only problem is that players refuse to build it.

Earl EulrichJan 11, 20161 votes

there is: both seraphs and RoA need time - and right now you don´t have time, you need the power asap or the game snowballs against you. So you have to choose one of them and that´ll be RoA in 99%of all cases. Muraman is neither slot-efficient nor does it provide meaningfull mana, as the active sort of goes directly against that for some reason.... the remaining Mana-items feature mana+armor which is a combination most Champs don´t really want to go for...so the only class that has proper mana-itemization would be tanks, but they also canßt stack it because then they have mana and no hp or mr and still die in a second.

The Yetii RiderJan 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ft7MvYnN,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2016-01-11T02:47:58.837+0000)

there is: both seraphs and RoA need time - and right now you don´t have time, you need the power asap or the game snowballs against you. So you have to choose one of them and that´ll be RoA in 99%of all cases. Muraman is neither slot-efficient nor does it provide meaningfull mana, as the active sort of goes directly against that for some reason.... the remaining Mana-items feature mana+armor which is a combination most Champs don´t really want to go for...so the only class that has proper mana-itemization would be tanks, but they also canßt stack it because then they have mana and no hp or mr and still die in a second.

Why does no other class want armor and mana? Supports use that. Mages use it. Fighters use it. If Mids and tops weren't so obsessed with their damage out puts and actually built mana and armor then Rengar wouldn't have a 58% win rate in the early game.

Armor is a stat for everyone.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Why does no other class want armor and mana? Supports use that. Mages use it. Fighters use it. If Mids and tops weren't so obsessed with their damage out puts and actually built mana and armor then Rengar wouldn't have a 58% win rate in the early game.

Armor is a stat for everyone.

armor is not a stat for everyone

RalanrJan 11, 20161 votes

Tell that to the players who die to Zed.

Earl EulrichJan 11, 20161 votes

the things is - if you´re low economy and you want armor you get randuins, as it provides the most effective health in that situation. there are only 2cases you want to stack mana in this game: you have a tear item or a champ that scales with mana (ryze or kassa). The problem now is that both tear-items don´t really translate to defensive builds, so the only thing you naturally want to stack with them on occation is sheen. even ryze is a bit shy about FH since he doesn´t want the CDR anymore.

So there´s a few things that have to change: more incentive to stack mana for tanks (->a tank-tear item?), some more items in general (odins veil is such a great item, no need to leave it Dominion-only - but also more offensive mana-itemization), a rework of muramana and longer game-times.

sp441Jan 11, 20162 votes

The problem is that building Armor lowers and delays your damage output, which in turn, severely reduces your efficiency if you're a main damage dealer, specially if your scalings aren't very high, or you lack in Utility.

The Yetii RiderJan 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The problem is that building Armor lowers and delays your damage output, which in turn, severely reduces your efficiency if you're a main damage dealer, specially if your scalings aren't very high, or you lack in Utility.

Yeah, and if you DON'T build armor then you get destroyed by assassins in the mid game, which means that the assassin gets fed, then everyone else in the game gets punished because you'd rather deal a bit of damage and then die rather than not feed and wait to be useful.

This is why I hate mids and ADCs. Because glass cannon is all they consider to be viable, and then they end the game with 6 kills and 6 deaths and think they carried even though their early game feeding was what made the game so hard for everyone else.

sp441Jan 11, 20161 votes

It's not "Deal a bit of damage then die", good Mids/ADCs don't die if they don't fuck up. They fucking NEED to have only damage because they're the big motherfuckers that are supposed to actually kill champions once they start getting tankier, as well as to take down objectives, if you're just going to build armor get a fucking bruiser, at least he won't be gimping himself in the process.

The Yetii RiderJan 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's not "Deal a bit of damage then die", good Mids/ADCs don't die if they don't fuck up. They fucking NEED to have only damage because they're the big motherfuckers that are supposed to actually kill champions once they start getting tankier, as well as to take down objectives, if you're just going to build armor get a fucking bruiser, at least he won't be gimping himself in the process.

And how exactly do you "not fuck up" against an assassin? They have more mobility, they burst you down fast, they have Ignite, their skills are low counterplay and you can't lifesteal it off. Plus Zhonyas is insanely expensive now.

sp441Jan 12, 20161 votes

While your gamut of options are limited, you can just not stand there with your dick in your hand with 17 openings around you and maybe buy Death's Dance.

SpecterVonBarenJan 11, 20162 votes

I just want them to make it so when I have an Ez as ADC we don't immediately cede the lane after backing because he bought a Tear while the enemy ADC bought a BF, Pickaxe or some other AD item.

I think one of the problems with Tear is that the AD champions that really like it like Yorick, Ezreal, and Jayce, are the kinds of champs that benefit way more from early game damage because they all fall off in damage late game (To differing amounts). That's the problem. When you look at Archangels, the kinds of champs that like it are also champions that are banking for the late game, Anivia, Karthus, Veigar, Ryze.

They need to do something to make Muramana more appealing to late game champs and try to emphasize other items for those early game casters.

Earl EulrichJan 11, 20161 votes

yea, that´s why i always prefered ER over muramana on those - you had to be a little more carefull with your mana during laning, but BF had just been soo much more powerful than a damn tear for the first back. The new ER sucks though, as you really have to stack crit for it to provide mana - and you donßt want to stack crit on a damn ad-caster.

CitadelOfIceJan 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I just want them to make it so when I have an Ez as ADC we don't immediately cede the lane after backing because he bought a Tear while the enemy ADC bought a BF, Pickaxe or some other AD item.

I think one of the problems with Tear is that the AD champions that really like it like Yorick, Ezreal, and Jayce, are the kinds of champs that benefit way more from early game damage because they all fall off in damage late game (To differing amounts). That's the problem. When you look at Archangels, the kinds of champs that like it are also champions that are banking for the late game, Anivia, Karthus, Veigar, Ryze.

They need to do something to make Muramana more appealing to late game champs and try to emphasize other items for those early game casters.

See thats what I'm getting at I get that they are late game items but they need to give better base stats so you arn't giving away your early game pressure by getting them. They should be good early-mid game and strong late.

Davy CrockettJan 11, 20162 votes

I hate Muramana, ive been playing a lot of jayce and i probably build it less than 10% of the time depending on how snowbally lane is

The DeckownerJan 10, 20161 votes

i dont feel like anyone but ezreal/jayce/mid varus use muramana.

(dont even mention yorick and urgot)

sp441Jan 11, 20164 votes

Urgot and Yorick.

ChaoticPineconeJan 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The AP Tear item isn't bad, but it dose seem to fall short if you haven't built an other mana item, and thats the problem.

110 AP from a completed Seraphs alone. You need around 333 mana aside from the Seraphs for it to have 120 AP - the most AP a single item can give (excluding the bonus multiplier from Deathcap). Note - for reference, Orianna has 334 at level 1.

{quoted}

The real problem is the AD version of the Tear, Manamune. It just doesn't feel like it belongs with the other new AD items. It feels like its missing stats for its relatively low AD.

45 AD from the completed Muramana alone. Varus has 360 mana at level 1, which is at least 7.2 AD for a total of 52.2 AD (at level 18, Varus has 921 mana, adding 18.42 AD totaling 63.42 AD). Infinity Edge and Essence Reaver both have 65 AD. So at minimum, its 12.8 less AD for 66% of the price. At most, its 1.5 less AD for 66% of the price.

ShahamutJan 11, 20162 votes

My main problem with Manamune is that once you get it to Muramana, the active is kind of sad. And although your numbers arent wrong, the problem with Manamune is still time investment before you get that value. Until you have the stacks, its a VERY weak item.

Archangel's Staff is fine, you can stack it relatively quick, and the AP you get from it scales nicely. The AD on manamune does not scale as well early, and it scales slower.

CitadelOfIceJan 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

110 AP from a completed Seraphs alone. You need around 333 mana aside from the Seraphs for it to have 120 AP - the most AP a single item can give (excluding the bonus multiplier from Deathcap). Note - for reference, Orianna has 334 at level 1.

45 AD from the completed Muramana alone. Varus has 360 mana at level 1, which is at least 7.2 AD for a total of 52.2 AD (at level 18, Varus has 921 mana, adding 18.42 AD totaling 63.42 AD). Infinity Edge and Essence Reaver both have 65 AD. So at minimum, its 12.8 less AD for 66% of the price. At most, its 1.5 less AD for 66% of the price.

Yes however both infinity edge and essence reaver give other stats and synergize with a number of other items so that your build gets noticeably stronger with each item you buy. Muramana has a very hard time fitting into a build like that due to the fact that two of the three mana items you can build on a flat AD caster are purely defensive. While Frozen heart and Iceborn Gauntlet grant plenty of mana they lack damage of there own, so that while building them you struggle. There is of course Trinity Force but that is hardly an inexpensive item to build and its typically that item you buy when you want a little of everything because you want to counter build and you need to see what item the other guy finished first. And while I will admit once the Muramana is done its very strong but the pacing of the game renders this a moot point.

The items just need polishing up to make them viable again over other items. (AKA they are currently lack luster)

ChaoticPineconeJan 11, 20161 votes

The reason why IE and Essence Reaver synergize with ADC itemization so well is that ADCs have the most expensive builds for the most damage. It would be stupid for a 2400 gold item to have as much late-game power and synergy as a 3600 or 3700 gold item. Sure you can add a BF Sword into its buildpath and give it more stats, but it doesnt solve the "stacking" issue. Stacking items just arent very popular - even with the RoA buffs, people still favor Morello and Athenes for the instant power (and CDR).

Muramana isnt really a problem. Its the changes to mana regen, the 1.5% missing mana mastery, and the fact that most ranged AD champions that used to build tear would rather just buy an Essence Reaver and IE as they become ADCs with poke instead of just being about poke (Jayce/Varus/Ez/Corki). Other mana-using AD casters would rather buy a Hydra for the manaless waveclear (Kha, Talon). The only champion i can think of that actually needs a large mana pool and is melee is Yorick, who synergizes extremely well with both a frozen heart and frozen fist.

Old Man TeetoJan 11, 20161 votes

Tear items are insane late game, horrible early game.

With early and mid-game fighting deciding many matches long before Tears give combat strength they feel very weak.

The items could theoretically scale faster, giving less time for the other side to push the combat advantage. They've tweaked how fast they ramp up a lot over the years, could see them doing it again.

LordGeovanniJan 11, 20161 votes

tear item are not lack luster its just that people dont want to trade the first back damage item for a tear of the goddess cause then they cant steam roll lane early and have to rely on poke. but unless you buy tear of the goddess on first back you wont be able to hit full charges by mid game. and item 3042 uses alot of mana which used to be solved by item 3508 but now its a crit carry item so only crit carries can effectively use the combo

Restless SlumberJan 11, 20161 votes

I think they're fine. Seraph's gives huge power and I build it on champions that have huge mana costs and spam abilities like Orianna. I have never played a champion that uses muramana, so I don't have an answer to your complaints, but I felt like it's fine because of the ad it gives based off of mana.

The LovelessJan 11, 20161 votes

Only the AD upgrade, yeah. I think it should give better mana>ad scaling so it's competitive during early and mid. If that proves too strong, I would then make it so the toggle takes more mana to make it more of a burst item.

NazZomLordJan 11, 20161 votes

How to Win as Kassadin or Ryze item 3040 item 3089 item 3100 item 3027 Because over 5k Mana 3k HP and over 1.2k AP is fun

item 3042 item 3078 item 3508 item 3031 item 3072 Is Pretty much how i still play Ezreal Decent damage adn the 50% crit with Essence makes the Muramana around 80-90% full plus the autos and CDR is super nice.

MentalDisabilityJan 12, 20161 votes

item 3042 is a beautiful thing! mind you it is most definitely a late game item. and has a lack lust till its got full stacks. but the moment its full you deal SOOOOO much damage. have you ever been hit for 50% health by an ezreal W. HIS W!!!!! NOT HIS Q! and he isn't even that great right now!!!!