In ranked, people would rather surrender early than play a longer game and possibly win late

Hexs Fortune·Feb 1, 2017·8 votes·1,931 views

The point of ranked is to win, but people would rather not win and save 20 mins, than play it out and possibly win.

30 Comments

FioraWillCarryFeb 1, 20177 votes

If my team feeds their top lane Garen 4-1, their jungle Lee-Sin 12-3, their adc 4-2, and the Sona support 3-0 by 15 minutes, it means I have a total garbage team. There's no winning this because they aren't gonna stop feeding and if they don't ff, I'm going afk. I refuse to play with such utter trash. The best thing to do is not waste time and just surrender. No point in wasting 15 extra minutes watching this team feed and lose. It should be obvious that this is a lost game. I never get why people cannot see that.

KiritoErenMikasaFeb 1, 20171 votes

The poster Obviously doesn't see that.

Mizuki ZahraFeb 1, 20172 votes

I was on the team that had the most kills, like everyone was fed and we lost because they wouldn't take towers the enemies tried to surrender and their jungler afked, we lost because everyone just wanted kills

woodvsmurphFeb 1, 20171 votes

Do you communicate nicely when they start feeding -- before lee reaches say... 4 kills? Do you help team make better decisions (or try to help) so that they stop inting? In a game like you describe above, I accept there is about a 0.0000000001% chance of winning probably by 7-10 min and just try to enjoy any little plays I can make. Like baiting a cocky garen to dive me under tower and then kill him. Or roaming on enemy bot and ruining sona's perfect kda right after she collects her 5th kill on my bot lane. Sometimes you get lucky and teammates actually listen to you and you turn things around. If they won't listen to the voice of reason though, they flame you for "toxicity" asking them to ff at tower instead of trying to siege a fed sona and mf with 0 river wards to spot the lee who wants to get fed off their stupidity then yeah it is probs a lost cause. Thus, do stupid shit like baiting the garen tower dive or flash ulting sona who barely survived to get the 5th kill. Who cares if you realize there is a 70% chance you die for it... you wiped the smug look off that sona's face thinking she's got an S+ perfect kda game; although these days it is probably fed mf or malz support - the results are still equally rewarding.

sobi999Feb 1, 20173 votes

I think not everything is as black and white as we tend to see it as. Now for example, I strongly believe that those who surrender quickly have much less sportsman quality than those that don't. However, there are times such as when my team mates are afk or when atleast 2 or more of my team mates are feeding (even when told to play safe) and just do not want to reason (group up) and the enemy team has 4+ competent players, i feel like surrendering is the way to go. I do agree that people surrender too quickly and i have won games where our nexus was down to less than half health and we had yet not broken a single turret. We stalled the game and got ace late game and won.

woodvsmurphFeb 1, 20171 votes

If you have played multiple seasons, watched and LEARNED FROM pro play and high level solo queue streams, you can tell if a game is winnable or not and what the rough odds are as well as what things need to happen to make that win happen. If teammates or yourself are "tilted" "having a bad game" or "inting" sometimes it really doesn't matter if your team outscales, you could split push to victory (if only your team knew how to use a trinket ward - only about 25% of low ranked players do after 3 min into game), you have a better teamfight or pick comp, etc. If you have multiple or even just ONE player on your team (they gotta be real 'talented' and prob a smurfing diamond who doesn't care) who makes the SAME dumb "mistakes" all game, you cannot win. All the above win conditions and possibilities do not matter because the lead that player gives the enemy team is insurmountable due to the fact that they will not stop doing the same "mistake" (in quotations because you fix mistakes; you don't fix inting). Thus while you could pull off said above strategy 5v5 with decent players even when behind, you cannot do it 4v6 or 2v8. In these scenarios, it can be better to surrender. Unless, like me, you hope the slow painful loss will either a. teach them to listen to you and use your advice next time so they don't feed so hard b. make them hate the game so much they quite and never ruin another game for you or c. can handle losing while being able to do nothing and think the teammate(s) who fed via idiot plays all game and now want to surrender will suffer more than you for continuing to play and you take more pleasure in watching them suffer than what you deal with in the pain of playing a hopeless match. I am not the last category, but I know there are such players out there. Then there are the other matches where lane/jungler x, y, and z fed but from watching them play, you can see their mechanics are decent and they listen to shotcalls and advice to slow/stop the feed (warding, map rotations, picking good fights, etc.). In these you see the chance for teamwork to overcome the deficit your team is in and sacrifice your lead from laning to get your teammates up to par with their opponents and win via teamplay and better shotcalling than the enemy team has. This is where experienced teammates and teamwork come into play -- something all the gold and xp lead in the game cannot buy you.

sobi999Feb 1, 20171 votes

I am sorry but i can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not or partially agreeing/disagreeing with me. It would help if you used paragraphs when you have too many points to talk about. Although it looks like i can learn from your message as i myself am learning LOL day by day. Thanks for replying :)

dominusxFeb 1, 20172 votes

nah if everyone loses lane and i'm jungle for example and i'm the only one doing good imma ff screw tryna solocarry same for every other role besides support xd we play to win yes but not to carry autists. in the long run is better to get out of a trash game so you dont ruin your mood and just start a fresh one.

LauchmelderFeb 1, 20171 votes

If you're the jungler and the only one doing good right now you're doing something wrong. The better jungler wins games right now, not the lanes.

dominusxFeb 1, 20172 votes

nah buddy. if all lanes lose after the jungle has preassure because they are either dogshit or autofilled it's not the junglers fault.

vampirekid13Feb 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

nah buddy. if all lanes lose after the jungle has preassure because they are either dogshit or autofilled it's not the junglers fault.

if all lanes lose, its because of the junglers fault. no matter how bad your teammates are you should be able to salvage at least 1 lane. regardless. so basically. yes, you should FF if you are the only one doing good because you're actually doing bad but cant see it.

dominusxFeb 1, 20171 votes

i'm glad i no longer jungle people like you are the reason i became toxic in the 1st place.

vampirekid13Feb 1, 20173 votes

{quoted}

i'm glad i no longer jungle people like you are the reason i became toxic in the 1st place.

based on what you said im sure everyone else is glad you're no longer jungling too.

EndlessSorcererFeb 1, 20171 votes

You can't really do much if your laners throw away any lead you get them even without the enemy jungler interfering.

There is little more demotivating than giving your top-laner three kills only for them to lose the 1v1 afterwards.

Identifying which allies are competent within the first 5 minutes of the game isn't necessarily easy. If you happen to back the wrong laner(s), you are screwed.

This is true even if it was theoretically the correct decision (based on team compositions and match-ups).

Sett up 4my gankFeb 1, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MFfA4h0k,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-02-01T10:18:34.132+0000)

If you're the jungler and the only one doing good right now you're doing something wrong. The better jungler wins games right now, not the lanes.

and that is where you are wrong. The better laners win games almost always. The team which has the laners that know how to avoid ganks better win. It really isn't as hard as you think to avoid ganks. Space your wards out properly, buy pinks and have them set while your yellow wards are recharging. If you do not have wards "recharging or recently destroyed" Wait until the enemy jungle is seen elsewhere on the map then apply pressure, if you are applying pressure or pushed in lane ithout vision with no idea where the enemy jungle is you are basically feeding. The team in which laners respect the jungle and play back when they should is the team that wins.

The thing people don't understand is any person can play jungle an gank an extended lane with a champion like Vi / hec and get the kill. Not every jungler can get a kill on a laner that is warding and playing safe and smart. Until more lanes play safe and smart the jungler that wins is the one ganking the dumber people.

LauchmelderFeb 1, 20171 votes

W/e floats your boat, I stand by my point. The better jungler wins right now, ESPECIALLY because of how OP the jungle is this season.

Sett up 4my gankFeb 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MFfA4h0k,comment-id=0002000000010000,timestamp=2017-02-01T11:35:11.217+0000)

W/e floats your boat, I stand by my point. The better jungler wins right now, ESPECIALLY because of how OP the jungle is this season.

I'll put it in a far fetched scenario to prove my point. I'm one jungler vs another jungler. I'm playing Vi, and have a 55% win rate hes playing kha zix and has a 47% win rate. Ergo I'm the better jungler. His team has the top tri warded, the mid upper bush warded and the bot river bush warded all with pinks. My team has no bushes warded.

It does not better if I am the better jungler in this situation. His team is playing around the jungle and is being smart. It does not matter that I'm vi with an ability that CC's and hes Kha without one. The chance of my ganks succeeding compared to his are infinitely lower because the enemy has vision. COULD I still get ganks off and win? Certainly I could. Is it more likely that his ganks will succeed vs unwarded territory? Entirely.

You may not be a jungle main I'm not sure, but don't confuse the role being strong and influential with it making the better jungler win. I actually think the skill gap in the jungle has declined immensely this season "I've been a jungle main since season 2 and have been diamond 3 season's" The entire role has become more of a 50/50 but yes the jungler that is doing better is usually going to win, however once again the jungler that is doing better also more than past seasons probably has the better team.

LauchmelderFeb 1, 20171 votes

{quoted} yes the jungler that is doing better is usually going to win

You proof my point.

Sett up 4my gankFeb 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MFfA4h0k,comment-id=000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-01T14:21:16.751+0000)

You proof my point.

False, your point was that the better jungler win's. Not that the jungler in which is doing better wins. They are entirely different things as the jungler who is doing better is more so based on the lanes this season than any other.

LauchmelderFeb 1, 20171 votes

If I play 1 game of SoloQ (or FlexQ, whatever) and I see this jungler once in a lifetime, the subjectively better jungler is the one that wins.

Thus the better jungler wins.

Sett up 4my gankFeb 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MFfA4h0k,comment-id=00020000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-01T21:07:50.602+0000)

If I play 1 game of SoloQ (or FlexQ, whatever) and I see this jungler once in a lifetime, the subjectively better jungler is the one that wins.

Thus the better jungler wins.

Get to a higher elo and you won't only see the same person once in a lifetime. I've seen the same people very very often and I'm only plat rn, when I was in high diamond it was more common to run into someone again than not. Not to mention if you just see somone get fed / snowball and automatically think that player is better than my player you just aren't actually good at telling if someone is good unfortunately. I see people lose lane or get snowballed on all the time and can tell they are better than their counterpart. Or I see someone get fed and laugh cause I know they won't be able to do anything with their lead because they are just not good enough. That point of view is actually so lame that you could easily just say that jungler sees all 4 other players who's scores are worse than their counterparts and all of a sudden its "The better top, mid, adc, support" wins.

Being the better player and doing better are separate thing entirely and if you can't distinguish them from each other atleast sometimes than you don't really have any say in what wins a game.

LauchmelderFeb 1, 20171 votes

And that was an earned downvote. Nobody tells me (or anybody else for that matter) that someone has no say in the matter.

And yes, if I get to higher elo I will see the same people maybe a few more times. Does it matter? Not really. The better jungler will win.

Bronze BonanzaFeb 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MFfA4h0k,comment-id=0002000000010000,timestamp=2017-02-01T11:35:11.217+0000)

W/e floats your boat, I stand by my point. The better jungler wins right now, ESPECIALLY because of how OP the jungle is this season.

While that generally is the case in this shitty meta, it doesn't change the fact that there are games where your laners manage to lose horribly despite being hand-fed 3-0 leads because they're drunk or something.

LauchmelderFeb 1, 20171 votes

Well sure. There are games you can't carry, no matter what. But overall it's the jungle that decides games in this "shitty meta" (to say it in your words).

EndlessSorcererFeb 1, 20171 votes

Gank lane(s), repeatedly if necessary, to provide an advantage
Allied laner(s) proceeds to lose anyways (even without the enemy jungler's interference)
Dawning realization that you are screwed

Thevoidwalker336Feb 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

nah if everyone loses lane and i'm jungle for example and i'm the only one doing good imma ff screw tryna solocarry same for every other role besides support xd we play to win yes but not to carry autists. in the long run is better to get out of a trash game so you dont ruin your mood and just start a fresh one.

agree..... everyone treats ff like its a bad thing when pros do it most of the times anyway its just the way the matchmaking works......

10 ppl of supposedly equal skill 5 are the actual skill they are and the other 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 aren't....this is why u see landslides in some games where its 20/3 at 15mins lol. the other team got the 5 skilled n u got the short stick..

GigglesOFeb 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MFfA4h0k,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-01T09:08:03.442+0000)

people would rather not win and save 20 mins, than play it out and possibly win.

Why would you want to play a game that feels hopeless...

woodvsmurphFeb 1, 20171 votes

I generally don't surrender if I see a legit possibility of winning based on: 1. player skill level 2. team comps 3. state of map (towers, drags, baron, etc.) Sometimes I don't surrender because the people voting to surrender are the ones who made the game unwinnable. They deserve to suffer so that maybe next time they will listen to more intelligent players and not make the game unwinnable in the first 10 min by making the same dumb "mistake" 8 times in a row. Maybe having to play out another 10 min and be able to do literally nothing even when 4v2 under tower will teach them to play smarter. Chances are no, but you can always hope people see the error of their ways.

DunkinNoobsFeb 2, 20171 votes

Depends on the champs. Don't expect me to play it out when the enemy Vayne has 7 kills at 15 minutes. You couldn't beat her when she was weak; what makes you think we have a prayer late game?