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A blog post from a Riot founder

SkyblazeHydraX3··12 votes·2,458 views

EDIT: Alright, this is turning into another pro-/anti- Dynamic Queue thread, and that's not what I want it to be. This post was and is about the fact that whether or not Dynamic Queue works, Riot's sole intent and desire is to improve the overall game experience for everyone, and if they need to Solo Queue will be brought back. But in the mean-time Dynamic Queue is still a work in progress, so it's too soon to go ranting about "the end times", so why not wait it out and see if Riot can surprise us?

Here it is.

I personally took note as to how he specifically called out the whole conspiracy and theorycrafting people do regarding Riot's "Chinese Overlords"- literally his words, not mine- and how ultimately it is always Riot's intent and desire to put players first.

But more importantly, a TLDR; they're working on making Dynamic Queue better. If that still doesn't work, then they're not afraid to backtrack and and bring Solo Queue back. But only if they really need to.

So how's about we all calm down and consider that Dynamic Queue isn't even in its final form, and see where it goes. Please?

I'd like to see actual gameplay and balance discussion in this board rather than DQ hate ._.

85 Comments

Zone of Endless6 votes

Dynamic Q destroyed competitive ranked. I can't see how they'll fix that. They removed premades 4 and 5 from diamond + games yesterday but that seemed to only created another problem for another group of players.

SkyblazeHydraX34 votes

Well this guy is one of the founders and I think the CEO of Riot. I mean no offense or insult to you, but I'd be very inclined to believe he has more insight and more information to work with than either you or I, nevermind the difference in experience.

Riot is trying to make things better for the game as a whole. But they're also human, so they aren't perfect. But these guys are trained from the start to put the playerbase first, so let's try and have a little faith. This is one of the guys who helped create League of Legends. I think he- and by proxy, those who work under him- have earned a "little faith".

Zone of Endless4 votes

{quoted}

Well this guy is one of the founders and I think the CEO of Riot. I mean no offense or insult to you, but I'd be very inclined to believe he has more insight and more information to work with than either you or I, nevermind the difference in experience.

Riot is trying to make things better for the game as a whole. But they're also human, so they aren't perfect. But these guys are trained from the start to put the playerbase first, so let's try and have a little faith. This is one of the guys who helped create League of Legends. I think he- and by proxy, those who work under him- have earned a "little faith".

I really want to have faith in them, but a lot of their logic to making decisions have made me really question them. Ever since that fiasco with sandbox mode it's been downhill ever since.

SkyblazeHydraX32 votes

Like I said, they're human. As thoroughly indoctrinated as "players first" may be in Riot's workplace culture, they will make mistakes, and they will come up short.

But with confirmation that Dynamic Queue isn't yet finished and is going to get further iteration, with the intent to make sure individual skill is recognized and valued, I think it's too soon to make that final call.

Zone of Endless2 votes

{quoted}

Like I said, they're human. As thoroughly indoctrinated as "players first" may be in Riot's workplace culture, they will make mistakes, and they will come up short.

But with confirmation that Dynamic Queue isn't yet finished and is going to get further iteration, with the intent to make sure individual skill is recognized and valued, I think it's too soon to make that final call.

Yet they dont admit how flawed of a system dynamic Q is and sturbbornly try to go through with it. DynamicQ has done nothing but create a ton of problems. Even when they tried to fix it by removing preamdes 4+5 in diamond+ games it created another kind of problem for a whole different player base.

They will never be able to fix dynamic Q other than removing it. Individual skills mean nothing when you can have premades in ranked.

Icestar11863 votes

Look at it this way: They screwed up pretty bad with the lore reboot, but now they're fixing it and it's better than it was. The backlash at the time was almost as bad as it is now. So they've recovered from major mistakes before.

SkyblazeHydraX32 votes

See? THANK YOU.

.....Still sour about Summoners being gone, I'll be honest >.> Waiting for Riot to somehow involve them again at a more limited/less "all controlling" scale. Would actually be interesting.

Buuuut that's a personal gripe. Point is Riot has put out some amazing stories with their lore since the reboot. Between that and everything else they managed to do for the game prior, they deserve our faith and our patience.

And as a player since Season 3, I'm gonna give it to them.

Alüe1 votes

Not being rude but game lore does not equal game mechanics. If I wanted a good story I'd be playing an rpg. When you build a game upon the same game mechanics for x amount of years there is no reason to change other than a Dev with an itching to do so for no reason. This is my personal opinion but riot will suffer quite a bit from this.

SkyblazeHydraX32 votes

Riot didn't change it "for no reason". They want to improve the competitive experience and make it open to people who want to play with their friends, and in doing so improve game health and offer a more positive overall experience.

Alüe1 votes

Would also like to add their logic doesn't add up. If the majority of players prefer dynamic queue like they stated in the roundtable video. What is the harm in creating a solo queue? Twisted treeline exists. I'm fairly sure they can create a solo queue to keep that "minority" perfectly happy. It shouldn't be an issue since dynamic queue would be what the majority prefer according to riot. The reason once again is its not feasible.

SkyblazeHydraX32 votes

Because too many queue options means longer queue times and less players for both. Even moreso if solo queue really is the minority, because that means you're waiting a very long time to get into a game while still having the issues solo queue originally had. It's more practical to make sure the one queue mode they have caters to everyone best it can, rather than trying to split the playerbase.

Eleshakai1 votes

{quoted}

Riot didn't change it "for no reason". They want to improve the competitive experience and make it open to people who want to play with their friends, and in doing so improve game health and offer a more positive overall experience.

TLDR: Riot doesn't care if you can't bribe at least 2-3 of your friends to play Ranked with you.

SkyblazeHydraX32 votes

As someone who most frequently plays solo- or has no means of communicating with queue partners outside the usual chat- I can say that's not the case. Seriously, to be honest? Despite all the complaints I have noticed virtually zero difference between pre- and post-DQ.

Alüe2 votes

Btw not trying to be rude just pointing to what I believe is why they won't revert the changes. Hence why they won't release the statistics.

SkyblazeHydraX33 votes

I think it's because there's no point to it. Even if they released explicit statistics down to the minute, people who are against Dynamic Queue could claim "Riot's forging numbers" all they want.

Riot can do one of two things with that in mind:

  1. Say and give as much evidence to prove the naysayers are the minority until they're blue in the face.
  2. Put their nose to the grindstone and improve Dynamic Queue until the naysayers don't have a leg to stand on.

Which of those two sounds more productive and better for the game?

Alüe2 votes

Or its due to them not having factual evidence. You would believe someone would have been able to replicate those same results riot had obtained through all the surveys gathered.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Surveys can be easily skewed by both the bias of those participating and the ambivalence of those who decide not to. A survey could say any number of things depending on who you ask and who bothers to answer, and none of those could be what's actual fact. So Riot has to use their own statistics and numbers, based not on opinion surveys or such but by the actions of the playerbase as a whole.

Alüe1 votes

That's the issue though, we are seeing law of large numbers and until riot decides to release there actual stats. It will remain true.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

I'd like to try and get an accurate number for the amount of NA players, then I could try and prove something.

Eleshakai1 votes

{quoted}

I think it's because there's no point to it. Even if they released explicit statistics down to the minute, people who are against Dynamic Queue could claim "Riot's forging numbers" all they want.

Riot can do one of two things with that in mind:

  1. Say and give as much evidence to prove the naysayers are the minority until they're blue in the face.
  2. Put their nose to the grindstone and improve Dynamic Queue until the naysayers don't have a leg to stand on.

Which of those two sounds more productive and better for the game?

The only improvement that they can do for it that would make me willing to play ranked again is simple: Allow me to opt out of being matched with 4-man parties as a solo player. But of course, they can't do this because 4-man queues would never get games since EVERYONE would opt out of it...

I'm not really concerned about 'just solo', honestly. The reason that solo queue is important from my perspective is that it gives me the above option.

Icestar11862 votes

Hopefully this will finally settle things. But I doubt it; people will always complain.

SkyblazeHydraX32 votes

Ima look at it this way. If people are still gonna be angry and negative when one of Riot's founders and one of League's creators is telling them "we're going to make Dynamic Queue better, and if we really can't make it work then we're willing to give Solo Queue a serious look", then to me that just means they're complaining for the sake of complaining.

And that's a lot easier to ignore.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

They're waiting on putting Solo Queue back on the table because Dynamic Queue has not finished its iteration, as explicitly said in the blog I linked. They believe that Dynamic Queue can also deliver on recognizing and rewarding individual skill; it just doesn't do that yet. Read the blog before asking me "why release it if it's incomplete?".

Outside of the gameplay board you know what I see? I see people outright mocking that so many people are up in arms about this. I have never once complained about dynamic queue, and I've never once heard any of my friends or even the people I've played with complain about dynamic queue. So honestly, I'm not sure the problem is as bad as you make it out to be.

TLDR; Dynamic Queue is incomplete, and this message of assurance is from one of the people who created League of Legends, including the old Solo Queue you prize so much. Consider that maybe they know what they're doing, and see what's to come.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

I'm not saying this guy is infallible. But honestly I am sick of people saying that Riot is doing this because they don't care about the game, want to make money, or change for the sake of change. Whether it works or not, the intent is to improve the game and the experience it gives. And with 6 years and millions of players worldwide, I would think Riot has some idea as to what they're doing. Just because the initial reaction is bad doesn't mean they've suddenly warped into apathetic money-grubbing robots with their heads up their asses.

And onto the point of millions of players, I would just like to emphasize that. Millions. That is the statistic Riot is working with. Meanwhile on the boards? I have yet to see a single Dynamic Queue hate board hit even halfway to 500 upvotes.

A couple hundred- or heck, maybe even a couple thousand- out of several million players. The scale might be large, but that's still a minority.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

That's millions who are playing League of Legends worldwide. Hell, for the several hundred thousands playing on NA alone, I haven't seen one thread hit even close to 500. A thread complaining about item 3009 being a joke has more upvotes, and that's at only like 230!

The fact of the matter is maybe 10% of the players are actually complaining about Dynamic Queue (among NA at least), and honestly? That's probably being generous.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Too many variables. How many people are saying the same thing multiple times, just on different sites? How many people aren't commenting or getting involved? How many people are using multiple accounts to get their point noticed and heard? How many sites are people discussing this on?

And those are just off the top of my head.

Eleshakai1 votes

{quoted}

That's millions who are playing League of Legends worldwide. Hell, for the several hundred thousands playing on NA alone, I haven't seen one thread hit even close to 500. A thread complaining about item 3009 being a joke has more upvotes, and that's at only like 230!

The fact of the matter is maybe 10% of the players are actually complaining about Dynamic Queue (among NA at least), and honestly? That's probably being generous.

When the majority of the people who play something for a living give up part of their livelihood out of hatred for a change... that says something.

Not going to say it's 100% indicative, but Reddit has 1000s of upvotes on posts about DQ being bad...

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

I don't watch streams, so I'm not gonna comment on that.

As for Reddit? Again, dunno how that works, don't spend time on there, not gonna try and comment on something I don't know.

stealthfox941 votes

{quoted}

Hopefully this will finally settle things. But I doubt it; people will always complain.

People will always find something to complain about.

Glîtchy2 votes

If it's still an option, I'd like to tell dynamic queue to GTFO, I can't get outta bronze because dynamic queue decides to be a bitch and match me up against premades of 4-5 whenever I come close to my promos. (Can tell when they all have same club acronym/name by their player name or their play names are uncannily similar) Example: Coolguy001, Coolguy002

It's a pain in THE ASS to get my chance at promo's ruined because of such a shitty match up system.

Twitch Chat2 votes

Maybe if the situation boils down to "we want to make dynamic queue better but we'll bring back solo queue if absolutely necessary" then they shouldn't be making a statement about solo queue being definitively dead. Fix dynamic queue then kill the solo queue hopes or else you'll just raise a shitstorm like what happened after the post.

Btw killing all ways for high elo players to play as a full team of 5 doesn't count as fixing dynamic queue.

The Queen Viper2 votes

"In other words, Dynamic Queue is a start, not the end state. This will take us some time to keep iterating through and developing all of the complimentary features ... If we're wrong and the stuff we're working on to improve dynamic queue and ranked doesn't work out the way we think it will, we'll re-evaluate and bring solo queue back IF it is the best solution."

Ok, cool... so how many years exactly we are talking about here? JAGEX? Anybody?

Rather sad that they are trying so hard to be the next JAGEX. Doesn't matter if you come up with a solution or backpedal couple of years after this, people have already moved on at that point.

Then it's too late to rectify your mistakes. Majority of the people ain't coming back.

Ironically when he said that it "requires multiple other systems", they have actively tried to reduce these other systems by removing them completely, instead of doing the exact opposite and giving people more options.

Dominick Destine2 votes

they're working on making Dynamic Queue better. If that still doesn't work, then they're not afraid to backtrack and and bring Solo Queue back. But only if they really need to.

I'll believe it when I see it. They lied to us before, for over 6 months.... who is to say they are not lying again?

Riot has a very tenuous grasp on the most loyal player base and REALLY needs to step it up if they don't want their game to crash and burn....

Edit: TLDR from that blog entry "Excuses, deflection, dodge, deny" the politicians bible. (Paraphrasing: "Well it's nobody's fault really, it's just ... miscommunication... and sometimes things are said with the wrong tone" (FOR OVER 6 MONTHS? MULTIPLE TIMES?!?!?! FFS STOP LYING TO MY FACE OR AT LEAST TRY TO MAKE YOUR LIES BETTER). Here is what I want as a player; Honesty.

Are you going to return solo queue? Yes/No? Direct question. Direct answer.

Rioters are indoctrinated from day one to care about core gamers

As someone that has suffered direct abuse from a Rioter recently in the form of an unjust perma-ban (which was re-reviewed and overturned)... LOL'd HARD at the above quoted.

Rioters are in the same boat as you guys, even if sometimes it doesn't feel that way... these blog isn't about making excuses

Stop lying to me, jesus christ you think the players are stupid or something? reading that was insulting to my intelligence and I say that with no reservations or irony. It was non-stop politi-speak.

Could a Rioter please just tell us, without flip-flopping or insulting us with politician nonsense, do you intend to return solo queue ? the mode we've had for over 6 years.... ? or should we just move on to another game? that is what I want answered.

SkyblazeHydraX33 votes

An attitude like that is why Rioters are often so hesitant to be involved in discussions like that. Honestly, that's the only response you're gonna get from me on this matter, because I'm not gonna bother trying to hold a discussion with someone who is determined to be angry and aggressive.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

An attitude like that is why Rioters are often so hesitant to be involved in discussions like that.

What discussion? they all but told us to 'Eff off' after stabbing us in the back.

They betrayed their most loyal player base, what did you expect to happen?

with someone who is determined to be angry and aggressive.

The 'determined' part is nonsense.

Angry? yes, I have been abused quite severely by Riot, to the point where my extreme loyalty to them is almost at zero now. You can only be beaten to the ground so many times before you realize that it's not a good idea walk into the dark room again. I want Riot to be the way it used to be, I want it to apologize to me personally for the abuse-case I suffered (zero-to-permaban under extremely suspicious circumstances, later overturned on re-review).

So yeah I'm angry. Yeah I'm aggressive.

I got shafted twice , almost in a row, by a company I loved very dearly and I legitimately never saw it coming...... that's what makes it so much worse, my trust was **completely ** betrayed. Many of my acquaintances have already quit (To be fair some were perma-banned, but others just left for Overwatch). Determination is why I am here, loyalty is why I am here.... I am angry because both of those were betrayed.

Do you understand? no, I know you don't.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

[deleted]

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

See? That. That right there. You're determined to see Riot as the bad guys

You either did not read what I wrote or you failed to understand.

It's not complicated.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Somehow only part of your comment loaded when I read it, so I only saw the following:

What discussion? they all but told us to 'Eff off' after stabbing us in the back.

They betrayed their most loyal player base, what did you expect to happen?

But beyond that, you do deserve some justice for what happened to you, and a proper investigation into the matter. But Riot has made it clear that their different teams hold little to no sway over one another. Player moderation is not the same team that works on Dynamic Queue.

It's clear your angry, and with regards to the suspect player moderation you have every right to be. But Dynamic Queue is another matter entirely, and I'm not sure you can see that because of the recent issues you've had with a different aspect of the same company.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

Player moderation is not the same team that works on Dynamic Queue.

Riot is Riot.

And there is someone to report to on both ends, heads should have rolled for both Dynamic Queue and for the colossal fXXX-up they did to me. To claim ignorance or try to absolve them of their guilt is pure unadulterated insanity.

In any case, I am holding on a bit longer to see if they will carry on destroying what they built or if they will go back to being the Riot I once loved and cherished dearly.

Remlap12231 votes

Bookmarked. Why have i not found this earlier? Also this comment is to bump for visibility because it deserves it. The boards are atrocious right now, and the echo chamber needs to be dissolved.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Apparently he made a Twitter comment about it. Myself, I found it browsing the admin comments on the latest PBE update post on Surrender@20.

This isn't about pro- or anti- Dynamic Queue though. This is about the fact that for better or worse, what Riot wants is solely to improve the game experience. They deserve the time and patience they feel is necessary to do that.

Remlap12234 votes

I don't know how much you've dug into that article, but if you take a look at reviews for Rito Games, you notice an interesting pattern. Review scores have dipped significantly since 2015, and all critical reviews parrot the same thing: horrible upper management.

If you've been paying attention, it makes sense. The things they are saying align with them wanting to help, but then you also hear "you don't know what you want, but we do. " If you have ever worked in a great job that was poorly managed, alarm bells should be going off.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

The article, and a reddit thread I read that was about Iron Stylus' departure from Riot Games, actually makes a point about that. Reviews like that are often biased, and from people who were fired or left. The article even mentions that people who couldn't work with Riot's workplace philosophy quickly departed or were managed out.

So while Riot cares about and is passionate about the game, apparently they have very little tolerance for those employees who half-ass their work or can't quickly adapt.

Remlap12233 votes

I'm not convinced that it is the general schmucks that are in the wrong here. I don't know many people who hated IronStylus, and I've personally played a game with Pendragon, and they all did serious work.

You take a look at the leads though, Lyte, Pwyff, CertainlyT, they all get some serious complaints. I'm not ignorant, I've worked before, I know from personal experience on a cautionary tale on lazy employees, but I also know a little too much about brainless management.

You don't need to have a degree in business to understand where the shit smell is coming from.

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