Point click CC is heavily needed in this gap closer low reliability game.

YOU BEEN WARNED·Apr 21, 2015·139 votes·7,116 views

It's time to make a new summoner spell.

120ish CD ; stun the target for .75 -> 1.25 seconds based on level.

[ Upgrades lvl 6 & 11 ] 550 range

Countered by , competitor to .

Good against ( the muh mobility crew ) and solves low CC team issues.

Duration is averaged 1 second as opposed to 's 2.5 which is more effective against a committing enemy .

-_-

Edit 1: lilxpaprika noted this should have a debuff similar to , if used on the same target within 15 seconds, it will stun for half the duration.

153 Comments

DomainSpecificApr 21, 201556 votes

Cassiopeia uses this stun, then lands R + all of her other skills. Fizz has a guaranteed ult that will amp all of his dmg. Swain will have a guaranteed E-W-Q-R. Shaco , suddenly have no counterplay to their ganks. would E-W-Q-R too easily. Veigar will get guaranteed E-W-Q-R. Alistar stun, Q, W backwards. Now flash wasn't even needed.

Too many champions will abuse this.

lB2kGRlc8yApr 21, 201537 votes

Love how Veigar's appearing in the abuse arguments, it'd be appalling if he had a reliable stun wouldn't it, but in any case i agree, too many champs would be launched into op status if they had a target stun to rely on.

junglerboy16Apr 21, 20156 votes

it's more that Veigar with this summoner spell could lock you down for over 4 seconds straight.

Zair UmbrasApr 21, 20154 votes

I'm reading the main post and it says it stuns for .75-1.25. Veig's stun lasts for 2.5s at max. If it is a 1.25s, it could be 'nearly' 4s. Or it could just be a .75s stun that you could buy merc treads and ignore. You know, like Riven's stun that we all forget stuns after you get some form of Tenacity. Quinn's E stuns for longer than Riven's W and Quinn's E is an 'interrupt'. lol.

SolaxoApr 21, 201538 votes

{quoted}

uses this stun, then lands R + all of her other skills. has a guaranteed ult that will amp all of his dmg. will have a guaranteed E-W-Q-R. , suddenly have no counterplay to their ganks. would E-W-Q-R too easily. will get guaranteed E-W-Q-R. stun, Q, W backwards. Now flash wasn't even needed.

Too many champions will abuse this.

Should I remind you how many champs abuse summoner 4 ?

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Apr 21, 201513 votes

{quoted}

Should I remind you how many champs abuse ?

Sadly this game has always been balanced around Flash. Flash is the most toxic, yet fundamental mechanic in the game. Riot can't remove Flash without reworking the whole game. They once shortened the distance by half though.

AbodyHUN666Apr 21, 20155 votes

It would be interesting though to see how the game works without flash.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Apr 21, 201528 votes

{quoted}

It would be interesting though to see how the game works without flash.

I would love to have it gone. A safety card for every one is not really fun. Riot also mentioned that a free escape for all isn't what they intended to keep. The problem is a lot of champions rely on flash to be relevant. Imagine Annie or Galio without Flash. They would be kited all day long.

PoisonedPeaceApr 21, 201516 votes

So get rid of it and then balance them. That was the philosophy with dfg

Leti the YetiApr 21, 20153 votes

poro king aram

T RexHasLongLegsApr 21, 20151 votes

So you want to make only two spells viable instead of everyone running flash and something else that actually changes?

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 201519 votes

Oh come on junglers won't stop using summoner 11 and toplaners use summoner 12 too well, supports can have more options on summoner spells now and midlaners can use this too.

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 201553 votes

Cassiopeia : God forbid she gets to reliably 1v1 a champion since the stun is a short duration single target, this doesn't add in damage. It just gives reliability. Fizz : If you are in range for fizz to use this on you, he will just Q -> R point blank and you have little to nothing to do about it. Swain : Gives swain something to defend himself with in a 1v1, given he sacrifices summoner 12 . This is a problem why? I'm not a big fan of Swain , but I know he's been unfairly oppressed with summoner 14 and had to farm with DoTs this whole time. Shaco 's ganks can be seen through the fog of war, furthermore his boxes take 2 seconds to ready up. The stun would've already worn off. : doesn't sacrifice flash that often, but this summoner spell allows to be nerfed since the main reason why she's allowed to exist the way she does is her ability to reliably hard CC. You can't possibly tell me 's ganks post 6 are fair, even in LCS when she ganked mid, the target was most likely dead because of how reliable R -> Q is. : If you're in a minion wave, you will not eat the Q stun. This is still a summoner spell, if used it to E W you, it's similar to brand E summoner 14 ing you. It's just slightly stronger with this spell because of his nature as a combo mage. Veigar : It's a summoner spell, not old Veigar's E which was up every 14 sec. If he's forced to use this vs a gank, he lost it's offensive power. A summoner spell helping immobile champions, crazy I know. Alistar : 2 things: 1, if you cast summoner 3 [ which is the closest counterpart to this spell ] on Jinx , you get the same effect. 2, even when Alistar is casting W to knock you backwards, you can flash or dash to completely negate it; you being in that range of Alistar is being out of position.

The summoner spell is countered by summoner 1 . If you're a mobile priority target, you might as well get it; it still removes summoner 3 and summoner 14 's DoT.

IMO it doesn't make sense that someone be mobile and have a lot of effective HP due to summoner 7 & summoner 21 for example.

ZPIN2WINApr 21, 201526 votes

Now I can stun Katarina & Riven on my own instead of counting on idiots, ty based rito.

Leti the YetiApr 21, 201518 votes

well, theres always the issue of hyper mobile grabbing the stun ;l

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 201530 votes

They much prefer taking summoner 14 .

Leti the YetiApr 21, 201518 votes

most of them have sufficient damage in their kit to kill people might as well have cc instead

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 201521 votes

If that were true, might as well have taken summoner 12 to kill other people or get summoner 11 for objectives and counterjungling.

summoner 14 has been really good since season 2, only been buffed since then.

BluePolarizerApr 21, 20157 votes

not really. For most assassins, 0.75 seconds extra stun at level 6 is one more auto or one more spell of ~150 damage after resistances Compare to ignite's 200 true damage.

ChaoticPineconeApr 21, 20157 votes

but assassins need setup too. its hard to hit a leblanc E (her strongest spell) on a moving target from range - stun them first and then cc lock them. diana has more time to get all 3 charges of her shield to do damage, then pulls them back in for guaranteed hit on her passive. easy setup for a chogath Q. and anivia Q. and heimerdinger E. and yasuo knockup. gives kalista (and every adc) more kiting power. rengar has the root, stun, and then a slow for 5+ seconds of CC. so does riven. so does leona.

champions without CC can absue it. champions with CC can abuse it.

i can go on and on. it basically shuts down anybody from any point. it no longer becomes "outplayed" but "who has the lowest cooldown on their summoners".

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 201513 votes

That's like using summoner 3 offensively.

In case you didn't notice, if you exhaust a Veigar as Yasuo for knockup, you've accomplished the same thing. Only this summoner spell works better against mobile characters.

You don't see people use summoner 3 aggressively don't you? Yeah, that's because using summoner 14 and actually landing your spells gives you the 100-0 potential. The same thing applies for the stun, sure you will hit your abilities. You're better off using it to defend yourself given the lengthy CD.

OnegarionApr 21, 20153 votes

or take the free stun to get the for sure skill shot doing the same damage

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 201515 votes

That's a short ranged important skillshot then. Zilean Veigar Sion ?

For 95% of the cases using summoner 14 would be better.

OnegarionApr 21, 20153 votes

I'm talking about the fizz who now gets an extra second to kill you because thats all it took for his kill ability to come up and he does more than ignite would. Also could be a decent escape spell in place of flash in top lane. The idea of a stun as a summoner spell just doesn't seem anything but broken or useless (feast/famine).

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 201516 votes

What? Broken or useless? Might as well call exhaust that.

CC never falls off, it is never famine. And it is definitely not feast as it's single targeted & free of side utility. summoner 3 slows MS, AS and damage dealt for 2.5 seconds. That's much better for dueling than the given spell.

Fizz will Q -> R you with the spell or not.

In fact, you can't deny there is less total damage when he doesn't take summoner 14 . Therefore you can actually outdamage him with your summoner 7 summoner 21 summoner 3 given you're not staying in lane while you're low HP or something.

See this argument assumes fizz has his summoner spell up, but you don't have your summoner 3 / summoner 30 for some reason. Why ??? It's not like his shark is instant either, it's damage is reduced by and then neither of you have their summoner spell up.

wopApr 21, 20151 votes

Yeh, that's because there isn't a hard cc summoner right now. If there was, probably everyone would take it besides jungler or maybe top. This would be the new flash.

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 201510 votes

Then let it happen, I want to see if what you guys say is truth. If we're actually going to have a meta outside of summoner 4 summoner 7 summoner 14 and summoner 3 against some assassins.

With summoner 12 being slightly more popular on premades, that's about it.

TheJinxedOneApr 21, 20154 votes

i personally get flamed for using ghost a lot.. despite it securing tons of kills and escapes for me.. people always wanna say "oh flash does help u escape more and dodge" yeah.. for short distance.. ghost makes sure they cant catch me and i can catch who i need to (especially on someone like Hecarim or a stealthed Evelynn "

LilxPaprikaApr 21, 201510 votes

Only concern might be that it might be too good on support as a ganking mechanism. Say your jungler is about to gank you can do a lot of chain cc. Stat with summoner then follow with say taric Leona stun then into jinx traps by then the junglwr shows up and further cc you down.

It would have to be such that using it to cc someone the character that used the summoner can't use another form of cc on the same target for 5 seconds. That way taric could stun both their adc and support but not chain lock and focus his spells only on adc.

Then there's also the issue of supports running both stun and exhaust as summoners, melee carries like tryndamere would be even more kited shutdownable. Stun is sort of like flash in a way as it can assist you in getting away.

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 201518 votes

Even though we don't see people take multiple summoner 3 s to counter a Tryndamere ; you have a very valid point with hardcore supports taking summoner 30 .

The summoner spell should have a diminshed effect similar to heal, having half the duration of the stun if it's used within 15 seconds on a target previously stunned with it.

By the way, summoner 1 's utility is that it reduces incoming CC for the next 3 seconds by 65%. It really counters any abuse case this spell would create.

Maximum ZileanApr 21, 20157 votes

The problem with this is the "Mobile" ones would just abuse it themselves.

Something like that would just be GG if someone like Kalista were to grab it instead of heal. Trust me, you don't want this.

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 201520 votes

They really want their heal bro, ever since the release of summoner 21 the use of summoner 14 was abandoned by ADCs.

Because their survivability is much more important.

WhiteGuyWannaBeApr 21, 20155 votes

The massive issue with this spell is that those same mobile champs you want to counter would have an easier time applying said stun by dashing in, nuking, and dashing out, and as others have mentioned, this would make every single burst mage incredibly overpowered, especially mid-late game. Playing vs any high burst mage this would immediately destroy Yi, Zed, Diana, any ADC, any squishy support, riven, and any other high damage low HP champs. It would certainly solve the Kalista and Yasuo "problem" but it completely screw over whole classes of champs.

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 201519 votes

This is not a massive issue, it allows burst mages like Veigar Zilean to be relevant. It also helps reduce snowballing in this game.

That Katarina MasterYi Riven snowballed out of control? You now have an option to deal with them instead of relying on gold income to get like a item 3075 or item 3190 , which doesn't really solve the problem.

Back to the issue of burst mages, it doesn't make them overpowered or anything really. Burst mages rely on a hard CC to land their spells Veigar Zilean so use of two consecutive stuns, one of their kit and summoner 30 is guaranteed to happen in order to duel. summoner 1 messes up their combo.

If anything, this promotes diversity in summoner spells and gives true counterplay opportunities through defined windows. This stun cooldown is longer than an ult's.. Your ult will be back up before you use it again.

LordPickletonApr 21, 20155 votes

This is a terrible idea. It would negate channels of some champs entirely like Fiddlesticks Katarina Malzahar Nunu Urgot Zed Warwick and in your replies to people you claim ADCs rely on ignite barrier AND heal over this (I prefer heal but a lot of times it's more for the speedup than heal), but having a stun also kinda works as an escape, especially considering that a lot of junglers are melee. Making it more effective on melee champions is something they tried with Youmus and BotRK but in the end it didn't work.

In the end it provides too much counterplay against a handful of champs (melees and those with channels especially), and some of those champs aren't even really that strong at the moment.

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 201521 votes

Let me clarify, I said ever since season 2 ADCs used ignite, when barrier became available; they picked it 95% of the time and eventually heal was buffed and is currently taken 99% of the time because of the need for survivability.

It's not that good, one of the reasons why summoner 7 is superior is that you get the movespeed ( escape from multiple targets )

While the stun stops 1 person only for a short duration, further reduced by tenacity. Had that person been truly a melee or an immobile like Singed for example, summoner 3 would've stopped him for more effective distance.

Speaking of interrupting channels, this is counterplay similar to how item 3140 renders Malzahar 's 1v1 potential almost useless. [ you can't cast summoner spells while suppressed, so don't worry about this countering channel champions in 1v1s like QSS ]

Warwick Swain Vladimir Fiddlesticks Volibear DrMundo had it bad because summoner 14 existed and countered their healing significantly, keep in mind I am not a Katarina hater but I don't think giving more counterplay opportunities bad.

wopApr 21, 20155 votes

Ahri with this would instakill (because she could just charm and land all her skills) Xerath with this would instakill (because he could just stun and land all his skills) Leblanc with this would instakill (even more so) with this would instakill (because he could just follow up with another stun and land all his skills) Blitzcrank with this would instakill (because he would grab and evryone would destroy whoever he grabbed) Corki with this would instakill (because he would land a bunch of skills) Fizz with this would instakill Malzahar with this would instakill, but slower. more like an iiinnnstaaakill

Thats why not every champ has a stun.

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 201520 votes

Most of the champions you mentioned require a collision skillshot to "instakill", which won't happen unless you're out of position in the first place. If you're stunned in the middle of a minion wave, you won't die.

If Fizz killed you with it, he could've killed you without it. Just gotta Q -> R and you have little to no counterplay opportunity to dodge.

DeliothApr 21, 20151 votes

Hey, guess what- all of the champions mentioned have abilities that are AoE- the minion wave dies around you while you're stunned, and their own stun pops on you right about when the summoner stun ends... and they get another/partial rotation.

If the Summoner spell wasn't OP, it'd be pretty useless in comparison to current spells. If it was, no one would take it anyways, opting for cleanse summoner 1 to counter the chance of the instagib bursts.

Like I believe has been said earlier- it'd be either useless or OP, there is no in-between for point-and-click stuns... Balance in kits that have these revolves around the fact that they'll always get the CC off if they want it- they get less in the rest of their kits.

draqxqardApr 21, 201513 votes

Except, you know. Their abilities don't kill the wave unless they're super fed, where you could use the summoner 30 against them later on.

Rito pls buff Rammus , their** rank 2** AoE ult base dmg too low, only 1k+ magic dmg. Rammus 120 Armor/ 120 Magic Resist too weak, rito wtf why fiddlesticks W do only 900 +(225%)AP buff plz.

wopApr 21, 20151 votes

I don't understand your points.

Most of those champs actually have AoE skillshots or skillshots that pass through, not colliding. SO it would indeed be easier to hit those skillshots on a stunned target, and of course you would wait until you can actually hit them if you use colliding skillshots. You are kind of basing you point on whether or not your enemy is in a minion wave, which is not the way things always are. 2. They wouldn't get hit by the summoner anyway if they were in position, so if they get hit by the summoner, then they are able get hit by the skills. 3. About Fizz , what you said is true, but that doesn't negate the fact that with a stun he would be able to instakill you, as well as the fact that if he is able to stun it would make it easier to land his E/R, annd (sorry for long sentence lol) a stun would allow him to land even more aas.

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 20158 votes

To mages, this is more of a self defense tool. It is more valuable to hold it until you're in danger than to use it for a chance of getting a kill; similar to summoner 3 & baiting with summoner 7 / summoner 21 . You can stun a target for a free skillshot, yes. However without clever usage of the summoner spell ( Zilean 's double bomb for example ) summoner 14 will deal more damage than most single spells in the game, due to it's scaling and true damage. Not to mention it's utility of anti healing & revealing.

Single target, short range CC is risky in terms of aggression and teamfights. This helps skirmishing and making picks, you can not jump on a bruiser/tank as with it, that is a bad idea. The target has to be out of position.

??? Of course not, you should always avoid getting out of position. This is not a summoner spell issue. Sure it can punish being out of position harder, but that isn't necessarily a bad trait. Having different reasons for picking summoner spells create the most diverse set of options.

But why would you be in Fizz 's range ? Isn't that also being out of position ? Since he can kill most things at lvl 6, granted you have a summoner spell disadvantage or such. [ can't summoner 4 out, don't have summoner 7 / summoner 21 , summoner 3 is down ]

Instead, wait for him to fully commit. summoner 30 him and make sushi with your jungler.

Kariu RenaApr 21, 20154 votes

ITT

34 bronzelord with -20points thought this was a good idea. we really need to make it only diamond can upvote

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 21, 201580 votes

Better comment with my lvl 11 account, that will teach the fuker.

TenSlashTenApr 21, 20152 votes

[deleted]

MEMEME670Apr 21, 201522 votes

You really don't understand the mechanics behind the games' design, do you?

The game is balanced around everyones gameplay, not just those that are high elo.

TenSlashTenApr 21, 20152 votes

[deleted]

MEMEME670Apr 21, 201512 votes

I'd rather be reading what a high 2k+ mmr has to say instead of anyone else honestly.

This doesn't sound like 'both sides' to me.... But I'll go with your new stance, sure.

Players getting banned for playing eve was not something riot did on purpose.

Removing eve from the game was, because they had no functional way to balance her in her current state. And honestly it was probably the correct thing to do for the overall health of the game. Old eve may not have been OP, but she was very dumb to play against, and that makes the game not fun for a large portion of the playerbase, so of course Riot is going to take action.