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Galio building AP is great, him relying 100% on his Q isn't, and here's how you fix it

Malicious Metal··53 votes·4,296 views

Yes, I love Galio, especially AP Galio. Ever since his release I've only been playing him as somewhat of a tanky Battlemage (item 3027 item 3151 item 3135 item 3165 /item 3025 item 3102 ) but his Tank Build was always the better choice.

Now imagine how happy I was once Riot decided to shift Galio towards this goal. And the changes DEFINITELY succeeded in making Galio build more Ap!

There's one problem though: #Galio's damage isn't well distributed in his kit and his Q having so much power warps his playstyle

Full AP Galio is great, but his Winds of War having such a high ratio makes Galio play very atypically to what his appearance and theme suggests:

A Squishy Ap Burst mage that relies more on Poke than actual brawling.

Galio's Vo paints this image of a Jolly colossus who just wants to go in and fight but currently he just sits back. Throwing Q!

I'm happy for Galio's direction but Riot needs to distribute this power more evenly.

I suggest lowering the max Hp ratio on Q and increase his passive, Colossal Smash, ratio a bit.

Why? Well, Colossal Smash requires Galio to go in and it's more interactive due to its CD being lowered whenever he affects enemies with his abilities. This would lower AP burst galio's Q oneshot potential and shift him more towards the AP bruiser niche where he actually has to put himself at risk to deal the damage he needs to deal.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6u48BQV0AAgbA1.jpg

48 Comments

ModThe Djinn15 votes

There are a number of cool ways you could do this, I think. All of these suggestions obviously involve nerfing his current Q ratios.

  • Make Justice Punch mark targets, and have his passive deal increased AP damage to marked targets.
  • Make each proc of Q reduce the passive cooldown (perhaps by a lesser amount), so that your bonus damage for hitting it mainly comes from the extra Q slams you get access to.
  • Move the %Health damage from his Q onto his passive or E, making it more of a one-time chunk that requires him to be brawly rather than a long-range harass. Might be a nice solution to make it on his passive so you CAN access high anti-tank damage, but you have to be landing spells in melee range and brawling it up to do so.
Glory ln Death4 votes

Move the %Health damage from his Q onto his passive

Yes. This. This is it. This makes sense. This is what we need.

Azadethe1 votes

His passive already does 1250 damage to turrets at 600 AP. He can actually auto attack kill 4 turrets in a row without stopping atm with his Passive, before turrets bring him low enough to kill him.

It's not just his Q broken. They broke his passive damage too.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MEMeb4n3,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-10-26T22:19:41.266+0000)

Yes. This. This is it. This makes sense. This is what we need.

Going to actually take a spin at this then!

Goal will be to keep his anti-bruiser/tank power and solo-dueling power high, while cutting down on his incidental harass and his team-wide damage.

Numbers are rough placeholders.

COLOSSAL SMASH Innate Galio's next basic attack is periodically modified to deal 12-80 (+100% AD) (+70% AP) (+40% bonus magic resistance) to its target and all enemies around it. The main target of Colossal Smash takes additional damage equal to 6% of its maximum health per 100 AP.

WINDS OF WAR Active: Galio fires two windblasts that arc to either side before converging to the target area, dealing magic damage to all enemies they pass through. When the blasts meet, the gusts form a tornado that advances for 1.5 seconds, dealing magic damage every 0.5 seconds to every enemies within, to a maximum of 30/40/50/60/70 + 80% AP damage (vs. +60% AP and 9% max health per 100 AP).

Each proc of the tornado that damage an enemy champion reduces the cooldown of Colossal Smash by 2 seconds, up to once every 0.5 seconds.

Single target damage is up slightly if Galio can consistently land spells to lower the Colossal Smash cooldown (with the Winds of War bonus reduction to improve his brawling if he can keep his target in the winds). His harass has dropped significantly, as Winds of War now gets 20 bonus damage per 100AP on a full proc, rather than 45 at 500 health and 270 at 3000 health. By contrast his passive single-target damage is up, so his Smash + Charge + Taunt + Smash + Q + Smash combo brings 18% damage to the table -- equal to what he'd have had before with two Q's used, but significantly harder to land reliably.

Net effect is skilled single-target damage with all spells landing is up slightly, AoE is down, harass is significantly down, and Galio is definitely an in-your-face smashing AP Brawler/Tank who goes toe-to-toe with other titans.

50000000000000001 votes

Do you think the %HP damage should be limited to the main target only? Generally, Riot has been trying to put %HP damage on unreliable damage sources in order to increase skill expression of tanks. (Exceptions generally on fighters), and I think it's fair to put the passive %HP damage as AoE instead of just single target. It punishes poor positioning, and also lets Galio do things like attacking a nearby minion to maximize AoE damage output. It's still not as easy to output massive amounts of %HP damage to entire teams, so I think it's still pretty fair.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}

Do you think the %HP damage should be limited to the main target only? Generally, Riot has been trying to put %HP damage on unreliable damage sources in order to increase skill expression of tanks. (Exceptions generally on fighters), and I think it's fair to put the passive %HP damage as AoE instead of just single target. It punishes poor positioning, and also lets Galio do things like attacking a nearby minion to maximize AoE damage output. It's still not as easy to output massive amounts of %HP damage to entire teams, so I think it's still pretty fair.

If it's shifted to the passive, yes. The AoE is small, and I think doubling down on it lets you keep it high -- otherwise the ability to get two-three passives off in a short time becomes as problematic or more problematic than the current model.

Shepherd o Souls1 votes

His q is his safest and most powerful damage out of all the spells on his kit. I agree that he doesn't need poke, area of effect, % health and 80% ap on one skill. Meanwhile his passive is smash an area for damage. I say Make his q the safest spell, but make it MUCH weaker than it is now. If you really want to smash people into the dirt, use your punches.

Max hp on passive/punch is an awesome idea. His poke should be poke and not his kill condition. Riot certainly is taking galio in the right direction of being a battlemage and not a tank though, so I give them a +1 for taking a risk.

Ralanr14 votes

As much as I prefer tank Galio, anything to make him more of a brawler than a poke mage is better IMO.

Galiö3 votes

I actually prefer him as an artillary mage cause thars what he used to be pre rework.

Kloqdq8 votes

artillary mage

No. Just no. Old Galio had average ability lengths and a AoE ultimate around him. He was closer to a poke/burst mage than an artillery mage.

KogMaw Xerath Ziggs Velkoz are way better examples of Artillary Mages. Galio had standard skill shot range.

Galiö2 votes

Welk ziggs was abke to outrange galio full full bounce and ult. Had about the same range as xerath sans his ult. Had tge same range as velkoz.

And im not familiar with how far kog ukt can go tbh.

I clocked over 2K hours with old galio and i remember being able to farm just as far as each of those guys bit boy of boy was that Q slow and that E dealing almost no damage.

They nerfed Galios dmg season 2 and never touched it since. Rip my baby boy.

Kloqdq4 votes

I never played Galio (I did as a meme a lot though. Just never seriously) and I know he had hard mana problems, weird damage spikes, and just weird tankiness. God he was stupid as hell. He reminded me of Sion.

Galiö2 votes

His mana was frustrating. His damage was OK... kept low for w.e reason...

He had the best tank stats in the game. (+90 armor and mr and some of the best self healing) but everything was projected enough to be unhealthy.

I miss him

Kloqdq2 votes

Personally I only miss the W and Ultimate if I talk about Galio. Same reason I miss Sion's old ultimate and his ad increase(can't remember if it was w or e). They were just odd or awesome abilities that worked. I understand the need for them to go however. I do think this Galio still holds some aspects well enough but I understand the dislike mainly because he feels like a different champion.

Galiö2 votes

Prople say he holds some aspects.. He doesnt.

He has a skillshot He has an aoe taunt. He has very minimal tank/mr scaling.

He lost utility. Spread up his cc. Made his taunt not cc proof. Lost his slow for dot dmg. Became more melee focused. Random ass ult thats pretty much only good in competative or with comms when people play a diver or engaging tank.

They refused to give older galio ratios... but the new one who is slightly less tanky (but impenetrable tank stats) and without heal can have a hard nuke for a Q. Ok...

Cosnirak3 votes

Welk ziggs was abke to outrange galio full full bounce and ult.

That's... half of Zigg's spells and the only two that really matter in regards to being artillery. So yeah, technically true, but doesn't help your point AT ALL.

Had about the same range as xerath sans his ult. Had tge same range as velkoz.

No. No he did not.

Galiö1 votes

Yes? Yes he did?

His e was about half the middle lane in length and his Q was able to travel to the tip of that distance plus busted out into a small aoe. Not a tiny aoe... but a small one.

Cosnirak3 votes

Still shorter than Vel and Xer Qs at their max (counting Vel's from him to end of its travel sideways).

IcyPepper3 votes

Yeah but new Galio isn't old Galio.

ModKnightsKemplar6 votes

As it seems we always will on Galio, I 100% agree.

I tried playing him last night and my exact conclusion was: I tried to fight too much. Should have been poking more.

When you lose a Galio/Veigar matchup as Galio, your conclusion about your play should probably not be "I should have poked more."

Aatrox Mid 1v54 votes

So how you fix it is to nerf him? Never wouldve guesed.

SzGamer22727 votes

That's not the point of this thread.

Of course people want to see an overloaded ability nerfed, but this isn't just a "why don't we just nerf Galio lul" thread. It's asking for a shift in power away from ranged poke and towards being a high-damage bruiser who deals burst damage from close quarters.

Aatrox Mid 1v52 votes

Nerfing his q and buffing his passive is a nerf. good luck getting into aa range without getting asasinated by an adc.

Iota Theta4 votes

That is why you build AP bruiser, rather than straight squishy mage, so you can actually survive the dive in. You build some AP if you want some actual damage, then get defenses (notice MM builds Iceborn Guantlet and Banshees) on top of the health from Liandry’s and RoA. Add those aspects to his W and he can survive going in to fight.

Personally, I prefer more resists in my build so I would probably stop at RoA and build more defensive items, but I’m also more of a tank player.

Khristophoros4 votes

They also buffed his passive, and his E has an AP ratio too.

He's just OP right now. His Q %hp dmg needs to be removed. He doesn't need a power shift.

His W is broken too. It shouldn't have an AP ratio. Maybe AP ratio on the passive magic shield.

It's not that complicated. He's just over-fucking-powered.

Poske3 votes

Overall your change would be a nerf

I do agree with the direction

But if you take the same ratio from Q and add it onto another spell thats a nerf due to him having to get personal with minions and risk getting poked

Having said that he probably needs a nerf anyway

PokladnicaZla2 votes

I think decreasing some of his power,instead of shifting it,would be better.IMO*

Ahris1 votes

If i was riot team, i will give more ddamage to his passive. That will make him a lot more risky to play and at same time be strong still.

Azadethe1 votes

His passive already allows him to push 4 turrets without recalling and without a minion wave without dying. I tried a 600 AP build in a test game, and literally auto attacked 4 turrets in a row to death before his HP was 5%. The passive procs were hitting 1250.

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

Galio building AP is great, him relying 100% on his Q isn't

He doesn't "rely 100% on his Q", he just doesn't need to do anything else when he has 6 seconds CD one shot aoe ability.

Karsh1 votes

So in other words... He relies 99% on his Q...?

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

'To rely' would mean he has no other options. Other parts of his kit are mighty strong with new scalings, too, he just doesn't need to use them.

SzGamer2271 votes

Good news!

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=okMW1rUO,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2017-10-26T07:08:37.027+0000)

[This] was certainly intended to be a buff for players that wanted to be aggressive but it's possible we went to far in letting him blow people up. Winds of War may not be able to carry so much of his offensive output.

This sounds a lot like Riot is considering taking power away from his Q, and shifting his damage output from Q poke into other parts of his kit. [galio-happy]

PaffWasTaken1 votes

He was reworked to be a tanky-cc assistant kind of diver. The old galio got (sadly) deleted and anything thats gives damage to this monster is not right at all. As much as it is fun to do damage while being near-untouchable, it shouldn't be in the game.

DTPandemonium1 votes

They need to remove his Q % AP scaling, base %damage is fine if it stays. Or make it scale by 10% of his AP instead of 90%. I think the way it currently works is your initial hit is the 90% scaling flat damage and the tornado is 90% scaling %damage. If they choose to make flat damage portion get mixed into the tornado they can nerf the %damage ratio a bit less like down to 20-25%~.

his E and passive may need slight buffs from this but not sure.

Teridax681 votes

Shifting some power away from Galio's Q and onto his innate would help, but the fundamental issue is that Galio at this point is a diver with a poke ability. Actual divers don't usually get to poke especially well, and are required to go in to deal damage, but Galio can circumvent that by spamming Q at a distance. The fact that his poke is also his anti-tank damage means he can chunk even tanky champions with very little risk involved. At this point what he really needs is a damage nerf across the board, as his total damage is absurd even when he does dive in, but the issue that will run into is that if he no longer becomes bursty, he's going to have a hard time surviving long enough to use his abilities again.

I've said quite a few times that I feel the only way to fix Galio at this point is going to be another update, as I think his poke is actually more interesting than his dive, but here's what I propose as adjustments in the meantime:

  • Change the tornado to deal flat damage, rather than percent health damage, and lower its scaling.
  • Make Justice Punch deal percent health damage instead, if Galio really needs anti-tank damage at all.
  • Remove the knockup on Justice Punch, and instead reduce Galio's Q and E cooldowns at later ranks, so that he outputs DPS rather than burst.

While this goes more into rework territory, I think it would help if Galio's ult taunted opponents instead of knocking them up, and he had some other offensive ability on his W instead. I think it should be fine for Galio to both deal and take lots of damage, but as long as he has a ton of CC on his kit as well, that's not going to work out so well.

KuroCaliber2 votes

{quoted}

Shifting some power away from Galio's Q and onto his innate would help, but the fundamental issue is that Galio at this point is a diver with a poke ability. Actual divers don't usually get to poke especially well, and are required to go in to deal damage, but Galio can circumvent that by spamming Q at a distance.

Excuse me? So Aatrox has no E? Or Xin has no W, Nocturne has no Q, Pantheon has no Q or E, Jarvan has no Q, Elise has no Q, and Diana has no Q either I suppose.

GhaelWinds1 votes

Aatrox is an inherently broken champion so you can hardly bring him into this.

Everyone else their "poke ability" Is practically required to use for when they go in, and aren't applicable at any other point in the game besides laning phase.

Pantheon? Yea I concede to him.

xelaker1 votes

just remove his %'s on damage and only let him have % damage reduction on the peeps he taunts.

EinarUlfar1 votes

This is actually a great post on how to, in a healthy way, shift Galio to be centered around building AP whilst retaining a kit/style more fitting to the lore/theme; sad it's not getting more traction. ._.

Azadethe1 votes

He's broken atm. The videos don't do it justice. I've actually built 200 Mag resist vs a Galio that didn't have a Void Staff, 2400 hp, and Galio STILL 1 shot me, even with a Maw of Malmortius soaking 350.

His post 15 minute Q is so large, it can do double a target's HP, and there's literally nothing you can do about it, because of his taunt (flash in on taunt. Bam).

Arakadia1 votes

Galio's Vo paints this image of a Jolly colossus who just wants to go in and fight but currently he just sits back. Throwing Q!

Almost like old Galio.

KuroCaliber1 votes

I agree, lower the passive AP scaling to 40%, then make it around 3% max health per 100 AP, like it is now, except unlike Q, it only has one tick of that scaling. He can poke with a 20% AP scaling gusts, and another 20% AP scaling per tick on tornado, and we're good. That's a total of 80% over time, and that's pretty fair seeing how Syndra Q is 65% and an even lower CD. His passive is effectively another spell, and I like the idea that that is where a good amount of his damage comes from.

The Trent1 votes

Am I the only person who just doesn't understand going ap if you're not going to buy a deathcap? It always feels like so much wasted value. I would def kick out nomicom for a deathcap considering it's an early game item and you already have roa in your build.

Bârd1 votes

item 3165 is the single best AP item in the game.

Amazing build path including a item 3802 means you can rush it without giving up any pressure.

It gives 400 mana and mana on kill, meaning your mana issues are gone.

item 3165 gives 100 AP. Only three other items can compare.

item 3089 120, but no other benefits and is too expensive as hell. item 3040 80 plus the mana ratio, but takes too long to scale. item 3027 100, but doesn't give CDR.

item 3165 gives 20% CDR. The only AP item that matches it is item 3115, which is only used by a couple champs.

The combo means that this item, while strong early, never falls off.

Oh, and did I mention grievous wounds? Yeah it has that too.

The Trent1 votes

{quoted}

item 3165 is the single best AP item in the game.

Amazing build path including a item 3802 means you can rush it without giving up any pressure.

It gives 400 mana and mana on kill, meaning your mana issues are gone.

item 3165 gives 100 AP. Only three other items can compare.

item 3089 120, but no other benefits and is too expensive as hell. item 3040 80 plus the mana ratio, but takes too long to scale. item 3027 100, but doesn't give CDR.

item 3165 gives 20% CDR. The only AP item that matches it is item 3115, which is only used by a couple champs.

The combo means that this item, while strong early, never falls off.

Oh, and did I mention grievous wounds? Yeah it has that too.

Yeah it's overstated, but why would you want two early game items? Building the right thing at the right time is a huge part of the game. Of course builds change every game, so you probably shouldn't build the same item's every game. Maybe some games he build a Roa and some games he could build a morellos instead, but all I'm saying is that you don't see simillar champs like Swain building morellos. Also the mana is a huge reason why morellos is strong which is why even tho it's extremely overstated you'll never see Akali or Kennen building it. There are just better early game items in a lot of situations. I would suggest going morellos if he's vs a Taliyah mid or something and really needs the extra wave clear but otherwise I don't see the reason.

item 3010 you also have to remember that we're looking at how effective the items that build into things are as well. so catalyst helps Galio a ton. just like how item 3802 is a huge reason why morellos is a good item.

Daddy Ants

He needs power removed not shifted.

Karsh1 votes

He needs power removed AND shifted.

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