Boards›Gameplay

Mira's thoughts on the Shyvana Rework!

Mira Arya Enthe··29 votes·4,294 views

Okay let's break it down one piece at a time. Source: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/11/1110-pbe-update.html#balance

New passive: Grants bonuses based on type and amount of dragons you and your team has gotten.

She still gets her bonus Armor and MR, just not doubled in dragon form. So despite popular belief she still has a passive even if she gets 0 dragons. Getting dragons is literally just a buff to her currently existing power. And it's a neat mechanic. My only concern is that it will nerf her being able to sneak dragons, this will be the unintentional side effect of everyone knowing Shyvana needs dragons... the Kindred effect. Other than that, it is neat overall and I have no complaints. It will be awesome when it plays out, a little underwhelming when it doesn't. But it helps her identity as an objective based hyper-carry. Unfortunately it slightly forces her into the jungle, while she can go top and TP to help with dragon, in jungle she has a higher chance of her team getting dragons and more control over it.

W: Now in dragon form has increased size, no longer leaves a trail of fire behind her.

I don't personally like this one. The increased size is okay, but the trail of burning fire had far more uses in my opinion. For example, cancelling out of combat movement speed bonuses while running from enemies. Or picking up kills/dealing damage to people you ran passed or are running from. The larger AoE will be nice during close chases and escapes, or in team fights. But overall I like it less. But it's an okay change, no big complaints.

E: Straight up nerfed in human form to only hit one target and reduced AP ratio. However in dragon form it now explodes on impact leaving a large AoE DoT as well as initial damage. It is unclear if only the main target is marked in dragon form or all of them.

The nerf to her E in human form seems needless, while she never buys AP in standard builds that was lowered, and now in human form only hits one enemy champion. Seems like a pointless nerf to her early game poke, especially for laning Shyvana.

Her new E in dragon form is AMAZING! Thank you for this. I love it, no complaints. It might honestly be too strong.

R: No longer gains bonus armor and magic resist. However now it gets 150/250/350 bonus HP. Now is unstoppable. Damage nerfed.

Nerfed damage is fine. I would trade even more damage if necessary for her ult to be unstoppable. Unstoppable was the change Shyvana players have asked for since release, and almost every other champion with a leap/dive ultimate has it. Thank you Riot. The lost resistances are sad, the health is an okay exchange, health isn't as strong but is more universal, it also buff Titanic Hydra on her, which I already build.

Summary: I like it. Meddler told me a month ago to watch for upcoming Shyvana changes, and they literally addressed all gameplay concerns I had. Ult is unstoppable, E is now fun in dragon form, passive is more interactive, W change and human form E nerfs are iffy but okay. I even suggested a dragon themed minigame. My only concern is that the passive and E nerf in human form further pushed top Shyvana's out of existence. With the buffs to the BotRK to compensate her loss of Fervor and Strength of Ages, I think she will be in a good and fun place after this.

Disappointments? No mention of updating her cruddy model to look more like her art. No new dialogue. No Roar emote in dragon form. No mention of giving her W quarter second tick rate.

Thank you for reading, post your thoughts below.

56 Comments

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR16 votes

Her E in human form still goes through targets, it just stops at champions. You can still hit a bunch of the raptors or through minions with it.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Welp that's another champion to my toplane roster

Dominick Destine15 votes

R can no longer interrupted mid flight anymore - screen will say "can't be disabled"

It's about goddamn time.

TheHappyReaperz4 votes

I believe Shyvana also grows in dragon form, when you put points in your ult, and I wonder if the new W scales with that.

PapaGreg214 votes

I think you hit all the points very accurately. Your Shyvana posts over the years have been mostly spot on. Don't forget that BOTRK and Guinsoos are being buffed which should give her better options as well. I don't see the E nerfs as all that important as I have 100k mastery on Shyvana and can probably count on one hand the times I have hit multiple people with 1 human form flame breath and the AP damage was already pretty negligible.

For those people that think her new passive is useless when behind, I disagree. It makes the enemy team have to worry about Dragon with more concern and may take lane pressure off in other places so that your team can catch up. People aren't thinking through all the angles yet.

WinTheWarOnPants3 votes

agree this looks good especially the unstoppable ult. The human E changes do not make any sense to me though especially the AP ratio reduction. i really liked where they where going with giving her AP scaling dmg on her "fire" abilities.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Well now we know. :)

Thanks for your thoughts Mira, glad you're looking forward to the rework.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

It is like the Malzahar rework, except the exact opposite. :3 as in instead of quitting the champion I want to play them more.

lightdragoon881 votes

Sad that you quit Malzahar. He my main champ and despite missing his Void pool I do love the new passive and I have gotten used to his voidling...though let see what this ammo system on the PBE does.

ChaddyFantome2 votes

Shyvanna is my first jungler and holds a dear place in my heart. Why are they reworking her? I demand context.

-> Sees Ulti changes

YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!

Mira Arya Enthe5 votes

She has been 'meh' since the removal of devourer. And lacks diversity in play. She also had issues with her ult being used only as an escape. And her passive was literally just bonus stats.

ChaddyFantome2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ME35vpmn,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-11-11T05:36:37.404+0000)

She has been 'meh' since the removal of devourer. And lacks diversity in play. She also had issues with her ult being used only as an escape. And her passive was literally just bonus stats.

all very true points.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

I still agree with meh since devourer, feels like reverting to prior cinderhulk builds and subbing one item for rageblade is far better.

People still building the attack speed jng item though....But I think that'll change when the incoming rageblade buff comes.

Dominick Destine3 votes

{quoted}

Shyvanna is my first jungler and holds a dear place in my heart. Why are they reworking her? I demand context.

Shyvana has been garbage for a long time... the only times she sort of regained relevance was when an item was broken (Ex: Sated Devourer)

Mira Arya Enthe6 votes

She was garbage for one season, this one. She was played in LCS in S 2-3-4-5. And has always seen play till S6.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

i agree... she was seen more top lane then jungle outside of the stated devour meta

Raiku Kawisa2 votes

Thing is they haven't updated her passive yet. I dont think she will have have her passive Armor and MR

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

It says "No longer doubled in dragon form." So iunno

The Blue Rajah2 votes

It's confusing because the passive change didn't make it to the pbe build today so her current passive still exists there. But an image of her new passive was posted by riot on twitter (the dragon buffs). Since it's a literal picture of the passive's text, and it doesn't mention bonus resistances at all, I think it's safe to assume that she's losing that.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

i see where you are coming from with the element dragons effective her passive cuz she a dragon too but no its just to much of a conditional passive and she has no downside to not having them if she still gets her free resistances. just not practical. it would give her a complete advantage over any other champ based off a neutral objective... it would make people contest it alot harder over her kinda like MORD and his drag ( which is stupid ) sorry but id have to disagree with this one.

also giving her bonus hp in her ult would make cinderhulk on her more broken due to the fact it scales with bonus hp meaning she can be tankier with less actual resistances. im indifferent about making her ult unstop-able i would be more in favor of giving a conditional stun/slow on her Q like after you apply the Q on it marks the target and the next auto consumes the marks and stuns them. gives her an easier way to gank and would make it where she has some gank potential pre ult and with the jungle changes farm junglers are set back a bit.

so with her new ult passive for bonus hp from the jungle she can build like this

item 1413 item 3091 item 3153 item 3742 item 3053 item 1001

Aptest2 votes

I play Shyvana, but honestly not a lot. Had I been a jungle main i'd have played her a ton. Actually preferred top lane Shyvana, when she was viable. Does not look like she'll ever get back to being viable top lane though. Hopefully the changes will make her more fun. The trail of fire was kinda awesome... too bad removed.

I do not like the dragon minigame. the reason is, it is a "win more" passive. If her team is ahead she's going to be even more ahead because passive. If team is behind she can't access power that she needs to create an upset in the game. Because she's somewhat of a "stat check" champion the power matters.

I don't really care about the unstoppable ult. I don't have, in my experience playing her, any issues with alistart headbutting me away or jannas canceling my swoop. Because of how the trajectory works im rarely in a position to use it in a way that it absolutely must land. What I really want is more movement speed spam though.

CrazyBear19872 votes

I Agree, over all its a change for the better, and a buff that she need.

W change, not a problem, her W grows in size could be really big, bigger than it sounds, cause not only the people chasing you, but the people your chasing are effected, Krugs and raptors, gulp and gone.

E was only a single shot in human form anyway, her drop in ap is minor, i build her Attack speeds and maybe lifesteal for her jungle potential

building her more towards the new jungle where she kinda excels now, which is interesting.

but her growing in size in each rank of her R is what i wanna see. HOW BIG???

Awesome, awesome, awesome

Thanks for the heads up! cant wait

RaiokuMoonscar1 votes

She gets as large as the dragon buff objectives (I'd say officially the largest champion in the game now, sheer size wise and not height)

For example if you know how big she is with item 2138 currently? That's how big her max rank ult is now, so you can get even larger with that potion now lol not to mention if u have a Lulu or item 3053 . (would love to see that haha)

CrazyBear19871 votes

{quoted}

She gets as large as the dragon buff objectives (I'd say officially the largest champion in the game now, sheer size wise and not height)

For example if you know how big she is with item 2138 currently? That's how big her max rank ult is now, so you can get even larger with that potion now lol not to mention if u have a Lulu or item 3053 . (would love to see that haha)

BREAK THE INTERNET SHYVANA XD [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

RaiokuMoonscar1 votes

[zombie-brand-mindblown] HEHEHE She may need a World Breaker skin now too lol

Gesterr3 votes

"Ehem" I think you mean she needs a World Eater skin

RaiokuMoonscar1 votes

For the love of Rito, Plz! (I'd throw my moneys at the screen)

ChaddyFantome2 votes

I like the dragon idea. I used to kid that 1 was having a Dragon duel with Drag as shyvanna in my ulti form while soloing it, saying i was proving myself to my dragon kin.

I approve.

ProfDrDeath2 votes

It is unclear if only the main target is marked in dragon form or all of them.

From playing her on PBE, all targets are marked - those that get hit by the fireball, those that get hit by the explosion and also those that stand in the afterburn.

Ralanr2 votes

Sadly model updates and VOs are for VGU's only.

Sucks cause I wouldn't mind seeing some muscle (NOT ILLAOI LEVEL MUSCLE) on her model or some new perspectives from her.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

http://pre11.deviantart.net/0a4f/th/pre/f/2014/353/e/d/_wip_5__shyvana_the_half_dragon_by_yuliuskrisna-d8agh9y.jpg

http://orig08.deviantart.net/aa06/f/2014/113/b/d/shyvana_by_fivetinsoldiers-d7fnbsm.png

AninLegions7772 votes

this will be the unintentional side effect of everyone knowing Shyvana needs dragons... the Kindred effect This! One of the main reasons I hate playing kindred is contesting for marks. Really fcking annoying when enemy jgler has faster waveclear.

About Shyv, it's a good direction except the elemental dragon part. I feel there will be more pressure now to take early drakes and if she gets behind and misses all the dragons, she'll be at a disadvantage.

Forhonor3212 votes

Great overview as always. But I have to add my thoughts to your now:

First, the passive: from what I'm actually seeing on the PBE this new passive with dragon interaction is instead replacing her current one, not adding on to it. I personally don't know how to feel about this. I mean we now get a more interesting passive, but as you stated if she doesn't get any dragons she could still have her bonus stats to back up on which now she may not have unless they add them to her base stats (very unlikely however).

I can see your concern with her W not leaving flame trails anymore but I feel Riot had a good reason of removing it. With her new E now causing an AoE explosion + mini scorched earth effect it would essential mean she'd have insane amount of AoE. I mean her larger W would now cover a bit more now and with her fireball she could now deal AoE to those in front or even more damage to people chasing her through the flames she already left behind. Theme wise It'd be great since you'd really feel like a dragon, leaving nothing but ashes in your path, but gameplay wise it might be a bit much.

And now to her new E I have to heavily agree with you on this. The nerf in her human form is just not pleasing for me to see and the AP ratio did seem needless since, like you said, nobody ever really builds her AP. Overall this seriously hurts her laning ability now and I just hate that Riot is still trying to make her as a jungle champ only now. New dragon E though I like a lot more. Feels more like she's a dragon.

Ult: now unstoppable. I'll be honest I actually freaked out for about a solid minute when I saw that change. Its just what all Shyv players have wanted and we finally got it. Bonus health is a pretty good buff, since like a said before she no longer has bonus Armor and MR from passive so this is a pretty nice replacement and at the cost of a bit of damage I'm don't mind too much. Now all they need to do is make it so it actually carries enemies hit, and finally fix the damn hit box so I don't feel like I fly over people.

And just to sum the rest up, yes she unfortunately didn't get her base model updated but in retrospect this was more of a gameplay update to her than a visual update. We probably won't get a VU for a while or unless enough people finally ask for it. I don't really see the point of a roar emote personally since you only remain in dragon form for so long. I heavily agree with you that her W needs to go on quarter second tick rate, since now when I play her it just feels like damage isn't going by fast enough.

Overall I think your overview is pretty spot on and hope you continue them. (Btw what's your current build and masteries on her at the moment?)

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

That is a tough one. I literally delete all my runes, masteries and item sets weekly and remake them to be better refined for what I have been dealing with and expect to deal with. I even change my build mid champion select if I see certain champions. Just a month ago I could have said pure on hit attack speed. Before that bruiser. Recently it was more of a split pushing duelist.

Right at this very second finding most success along these lines.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2343696145/48865711

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2343692770/48865711

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2343617973/48865711

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2343531272/48865711

BIackfox1 votes

They need to today's eve first have you seen her model?

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

Fans have already redone the Shyvana model successfully. If fans can do it on spare time, I don't know why these model updates take so long. Also the fact that Shy was suppose to be in the Juggernaut update, but was 'missed'.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

The only thing I don't like is the new passive. Seems pretty pointless; none of those passives are strong enough to justify prioritizing dragon any more than before, especially wind drag. 5% slow resistance? Who gives a fuck.

RaiokuMoonscar3 votes

If the first dragon alone were as good as you wish them to be that wouldn't exactly be fair imo.

TwinkiePro1 votes

Back to hybrid bruiser it is :^)

item 3124 item 3146 item 3153 item 3116 item 3115 item 3071 or item 3078 who needs boots anyways?

Tychusfindlay9193 votes

{quoted}

Back to hybrid bruiser it is :^)

item 3124 item 3146 item 3153 item 3116 item 3115 item 3071 or item 3078 who needs boots anyways?

Thats hardly bruiser and more just melee ADC

TwinkiePro1 votes

swap out bork and tri for tanky items then, I don't understand the mass of downvotes.

Also, can't really be ADC as it is a hybrid, as ADC means only AD :3

RizHippoKhan1 votes

btw which mastery should i use on shyvana? the ferver seems more useful for adcs :/

SH Azykan1 votes

I've been running stormraiders personally, 0/18/12 I like it because with titanic + Q it is pretty easy to hit the damage required to get the bonus, and it helps stick to finish the target off.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

If you are going a damage build Stormraiders. If you are going a tankier build like my recent 5122HP melt tank Shyvana game, I suggest Grasp.

RizHippoKhan2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ME35vpmn,comment-id=00110001,timestamp=2016-11-12T04:22:19.065+0000)

If you are going a damage build Stormraiders. If you are going a tankier build like my recent 5122HP melt tank Shyvana game, I suggest Grasp.

can u give me some good item builds for shyv :) ?

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Currently I go with

Stormraiders Build: item 3748 item 1416 item 3091 item 3742 item 3009 then either a item 3143 or item 3065.

Grasp Build: item 3748 item 1401 item 3143 item 3065 item 3009 then either a item 3153 or item 3091 or item 3512.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/pFaq8qio-melt-tank-shyvana-might-work-again most success with this however.

RizHippoKhan1 votes

http://imgur.com/CKsPSDH

the match history wasnt loading so i stalked around on lolking xD but this is the one right? thanks a lot! u r by far the best shyvana main xD

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Far from it. I appreciate it, but there is a Diamond Shyvana one trick on the boards as well. Much better than me.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Nonsense, you're def one of the best for nothing but your dedication to shyv.

In fact you, Mistress Shyv, and Raiku (sry for mispell) should join forces and make a club ingame or something.

"The 3 Dragons" or something. XD

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Mira Arya Enthe

People who think Voice Coms will improve League
Gameplay354 comments
329
votes
Why Jhin should be gutted
Memes & Games73 comments
305
votes
Has anybody else just, ceased getting excited for new champions?
Gameplay435 comments
244
votes
"Counterplay"
Gameplay218 comments
232
votes
Some people actually enjoy simple kits...
Gameplay289 comments
229
votes
I genuinely feel bad for any nice people who main...
Gameplay414 comments
188
votes