Pyke is the definition of a champion who shouldn't recieve any buffs until after a month or so.

warpenguin555··172 votes·29,499 views

There is no chance in hell he has 48% winrate or higher on release. Pyke might not look like a super challenging champion to play based on his kit. The challenge will come in how unique he is. An assassin support is a brand new concept, and as such Pyke won't be figured out very fast. The closest thing we have to him is Pantheon support, which nobody plays. You'll have assassin mains who never play support trying him and sucking. There will be support mains who aren't used to playing aggressive like an assassin and feeding. People will be playing him Top, Mid, and Jungle because that's where assassins tend to see play. Pyke players will be playing either too passive or too aggressive, won't be warding properly, building poorly, and could even drag his team down if he's terrible outside of support.

I'm begging you Riot, if Pyke is weak on release, leave him for a little bit longer than normal. This champion will take longer to learn than most VGU's and new champions. Do not panic and buff him after 1 patch. If you buff him, he'll become a monster just like Kai'sa, just like Swain, and just like Ornn. Give us time to find out how to play him, with him, and against him. Do not touch him unless you're fixing bugs or he's stupidly OP.

100 Comments

Shukr4n47 votes

no opness no money.

they have time to nerf him later..after a big buff

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

no opness no money.

they have time to nerf him later..after a big buff

Yeah, plus they didn't work on his Creature from the Black Saloon skin for upwards of 20 minutes just to have paltry sales.

DW Diana27 votes

I love how he looks, and they may need to tweak parts of his kit, but i would have to say I agree with the OP. We don't want another AP Rakan on our hands (they've still not fixed him :S)

DuskDaUmbreon38 votes

They haven't nerfed AP Rakan because it's about as viable as full tank Veigar.

Please don't look at clickbait videos where it's Plat+ smurfs against Bronze 5 (or even bots) to show "MASSIVE DAMAGE 100% NOT CLICKBAIT MUST WATCH NOW NEW META CONFIRMED!????????!?!?!?!!?"

Ginjavitis6 votes

The first video that came out about AP Rakan was perkz playing on his main account VS a newly reworked LB...he’s not OP by any means, but he’s definitely a viable pick in certain counter matchups where you need to survive and have enough damage on an alternate source

My Waifu Vanilla3 votes

Rakan needs help from his jungler since he gets shoved in all day. It's near impossible to "lose" lane as AP Rakan mid, but he isn't going to win lane unless the enemy laner doesn't respect his damage and they get outplayed since AP Rakan hardly functions before Protobelt. It usually digresses into the enemy trying to poke you out of lane and it never working since your Q heals for an obscene amount and your passive shield also has a 0.9(?) ratio. All while you sit under tower and farm somewhat efficiently. I haven't played it since the patch, but I would assume the dring changes helped since he mainly last hits with autos in early laning anyway and had trouble with melees for a bit. Could be wrong.

Ginjavitis1 votes

You're definitely right, AP rakan is more of a never lose lane champ through his heal and passive shield, he gives up a decent amount of mid pressure for safety for himself and a huge amount of defense for the true carry of the match whether it be the ADC/yas top whatever you have.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

Rakan is op and need to be nerfed. His Ap ratio need to be tuned down too.

Ginjavitis1 votes

Eh, his AP definitely would not be where to hit him, he has really reliable engage and a safe self-disengage that would be where to target along with the passive shield base amount. I wouldn't call him OP right now, not as long as he can be bursted down, he got a lot weaker once you couldn't go relic on him as reliably.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

never say his ap scaling was the only thing recquiring a nerf.

And yeah for the Board 100 % pick or ban during MSI don't mean OP.

Verxint17 votes

We already know riots gonna buff him 5 times then nerf the interesting part of his kit instead of reverting the buffs

ModWulf Helhammer6 votes

There are some champion releases that it can be called when they are exceptionally weak and need buffs. Ivern, Bard, Blue Kayn all fall into this category. They had way too little power when they released, and could be confidentially buffed (and even rebuffed, in the case of at least Bard)

Sun Wu Ryuumoku3 votes

Blue Kayn wasn't weak... but he has too many bug on him (iirc).

LichKing2341 votes

yeah blue kayn didnt have the utility of rhaast they both dealt the same amount of dmg to behonest but blue kayne did it faster than rhaast but rhaast was overall better do to tank better cc didnt get blown up when caught out

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

You're not honest (or delusionnal) if you think Rhaast deal same as Kayne. Its was obvious, and will always, the red form would be better (safe choice).

LichKing2341 votes

Rhaast does deal the same amount of dmg as Kayne he doesnt deal it as fast as Blue kayne depending on the situation, items and who is fightting, Rhaast can one shot a squishey just like Anime Kayne difference is that Anime kayne does the dmg faster has no reliable CC and is squishey himself. But who is better overall depends on what your team needs and what the enemy team got in reality Rhaast substain dmg < does the dmg over a period of time Kayne Burst dmg < does alot of dmg in a short amount of time

the enemy team has alot of squishies while your team is covered with tanks and CC time for anime kayne we have no tanks (why doesnt you have any tanks) while the enemy team got a few and some good CC time for Daddy Rhaast we have alot of cc but want to add more cc daddy Rhaast with the belt again their team is full on squish Anime Kayne with the weeaboo powers Again this is all subjective depending on who hes fightting whats his items the enemy items and if hes Daddy rhaast, or Anime Kayne Kayn

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

No. Both version burst and don't dps.

And blue Kayn deal more cause his passive make him deal bonus magic damages.

LichKing2341 votes

hmm not really atleast from alot of the kaynes i fought rhaast was most substain dps then burst and anime Kayne was more bursty dps

both can 1 shot a squishy (when ahead or even when played right) when you add in Amine Kaynes passive that still adds to his overall burst

Acheron166 votes

Unless he's very undertuned, I'm seeing Pyke having a Camille type of launch, where he has a low winrate for a few days before it skyrockets.

KingWill074 votes

Wow. I definitely agreed to this [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

TKM Axe4 votes

i mean nidalee is an assasin support?

KingWill073 votes

You mean the cat. I have never seen nidalee as support before. Im gonna watch a youtube of that.

Done2529 votes

Only because they absolutely gutted her healing.

FakeGravity10 votes

i played her once, the only healing worst than hers would be sona's heal...which doesn't feel right at all, even kayle surpass sona's early on in healing. nidalee inst a terrible support but it is on the level of zoe support, you have one true helpful skill and the rest is just damage to try and exploit enemies mistakes

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Because Sona's heal can hit up to 5 people.

Chembaron Yamada8 votes

Sona just heals 1 additional ally besides herself with W. Just the shield portion of that skill can be shared with all 5 team members.

NineTailedMystic5 votes

My bad, but still. There's so much value in her W that the numbers can't be that high.

shicky9713 votes

Ah Nidalee, the OG "Real Support".

Nidalee "Don't worry guys, this item 3070 is just for mana sustain in lane; it's totally not gonna turn into a item 3003 followed by item 3089 later"

Wimbledofy2 votes

Well those are the best items to help her healing. Going rabadon's second item either means she knows what she is doing to maximize her heals, or she thinks she is trolling by trying to be a mage, but void staff has rabadon's beat by far for damage anyways.

shicky972 votes

I was mostly referring to old Nidalee, when her spears were still nuclear and she was the god-queen of toplane. Of all the support Nidalees I saw back in those days, only a handful of them even bothered to heal their laning partner; All the mana was funneled into chucking spears nonstop. These were also the days where Nidalees always got an early Rabadon's, Void Staff wasn't nearly as important as the raw AP Rabadon's offered to fuel her spear's ridiculous AP ratio.

invisiblecat13 votes

inb4 Riot completely ignores this logical advice

Colton1472 votes

Pyke will be probably be at around 39% win rate like release Ornn and will badly need some buffs.

Awhegark5 votes

Exactly. Those kills on jarvan are actually not impressive at all. I bet his damage is actually gonna be quite weak compared toother assassins.

My Waifu Vanilla3 votes

I mean he only has really 1 damaging ability and that's his Q. His W is just a stealth and his E looks like it doesn't do much damage at all and is used for the utility. His ult also ONLY really does damage on the execute portion since using it otherwise is going to be extremely lackluster (going against armor, no reset, no bonus $$$). He's a roaming support and based off of Bard's release people are going to lose their mind trying to play him optimally in anything below like D1 since efficient roams are few and far between in anything lower.

Azadethe2 votes

Actually from the explanations of his scaling in his passive, it's likely his itemization is HP/AD. Which is stupidly strong itemization. People may play him poorly, but I play Ornn HP/AD, and pull some 68% Win rate. If you have an HP/AD setup on Sorcery/Resolve, he's going to be monstrously easy to keep alive.

He can also abuse Triumph in most fights. I wouldn't put it past him to go HP/AD, and then build Sorcery/Precision, and Ult chain to self heal himself on Triumph, and then use Ghostwater Dive to heal even more (This combo could heal him up to full HP after 2-3 Executes), and he gets full gold for every kill. Think of him as a heal on demand Garen in that regard, which actually makes his ult more powerful than Evelynn's depending on scaling.

Once people stop wasting Ghostwater Dive as an initiate, he'll likely jump to a 55% win rate.

If he scales AD, think item 3096 item 3071 item 3748 item 3078 item 3022 . Tons of HP, AD, 60% CDR Transcendence (bonus 24 AD) and his passive converts all that bonus HP into AD.

Or, I could see item 3800 item 3053 item 3083 item 3065 item 3143 getting in the build. If he can live long enough, it's likely he can be both tanky AND hurt building like this..... using Ghostwater Dive to get away, and heal on Warmog's, come back in on full HP, really tanky, and then use the HP to fuel his Ult spam.

I think he's going to be more broken than Tahm Kench if he scales to AD on core skills. If he scales to AP only, he'll probably just build full HP /AD tank.

The only challenge I see for players playing him: getting used to delaying Bone Skewer so that it can perform the pull. Being in a line of sight to hit a single target while trying to hit them is a dangerous game. It's very likely it'll only be used to flip targets over him when they get close to him in a bush to majorly displace them and throw them into an instant death gank. If you use it as support vs Blitzcrank Morgana Leona Thresh you're probably gonna get punished hard.

People are gonna button mash his Bone Skewer for a few weeks and just waste it as a short range aoe ability.

TwitchInMyPants3 votes

{quoted}

Actually from the explanations of his scaling in his passive, it's likely his itemization is HP/AD. Which is stupidly strong itemization. People may play him poorly, but I play Ornn HP/AD, and pull some 68% Win rate. If you have an HP/AD setup on Sorcery/Resolve, he's going to be monstrously easy to keep alive.

Pyke is CONVERTING Hp to AD. Its basically like Jhin, he can't actually benefit from HP for durability but HP items are now AD items for him. Which I imagine is so things like Relic line, Knight's Vow, ect are useful on him.

Azadethe1 votes

The passive does not actually mention a full conversion..... yet. We don't actually know enough.

If it's converted at some enormous rate, it's going to be OP. If it's not at some enormous rate, it's not worth the HP sacrifice.

My guess? A portion of Bonus HP will be converted at a rate like 3% AD.

If it's a full conversion btw, it's not like that's a horrible thing. The only items that would really affect is item 3083 (Useless) and item 3748 (Less damage)

It'd turn item 3065 into a Second Maw of Malmortius. item 3078 Would just be stronger. etc.

He could still build Armor as well.... It'd just turn into an Armor/AD item or Resist/AD item.

My guess is.... if you don't have Armor/Resist, He's going to pop like Evelynn if this is full conversion.

TwitchInMyPants3 votes

{quoted}

The passive does not actually mention a full conversion..... yet. We don't actually know enough.

If it's converted at some enormous rate, it's going to be OP. If it's not at some enormous rate, it's not worth the HP sacrifice.

My guess? A portion of Bonus HP will be converted at a rate like 3% AD.

If it's a full conversion btw, it's not like that's a horrible thing. The only items that would really affect is item 3083 (Useless) and item 3748 (Less damage)

It'd turn item 3065 into a Second Maw of Malmortius. item 3078 Would just be stronger. etc.

He could still build Armor as well.... It'd just turn into an Armor/AD item or Resist/AD item.

My guess is.... if you don't have Armor/Resist, He's going to pop like Evelynn if this is full conversion.

Unfortunately you're incorrect

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/HyghtedA-pyke-the-bloodharbor-ripper?show=flat&comment=001b0000

Reav3 confirms this is how it works

Riot has pretty specific wording when it comes to champs with abilities like this

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Vladimir

Vladimir GAINS ability power or health based on each other. It doesn't say conversion.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Jhin

Jhin also has the word GAINS but he also has explicit rules about how AS works on the champion.

Pyke is the first champion that explicitly says CONVERSION. The full passive may read more like Jhin's but in the preview it reads conversion, and that's not a wording that is used for these other passives. Even without the Riot confirmation the wording hints that you lose access to the stat.

Janakin2 votes

Assassin support? Well I used to have 80 % win rate out of 40 games as fiddlesticks support.

LichKing2342 votes

Ross would like to have a word with you about that no one plays panth support XD

warpenguin5552 votes

Oh I forgot about Ross. I love that guy

rtbf2234347212 votes

Riot motto:

Breaking the game 1 champion at a time.

Aseraan2 votes

Darius and Nautilus have a kid now......

SeaChange2 votes

And then there are rakan mains who will probably pick him of pretty quick ;)))

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

And then there are rakan mains who will probably pick him of pretty quick ;)))

I co-main TalonLulu and pla a lot of Rakan, so i should be just fine :P

Oleandervine2 votes

BIG HUGE GIANT POINT ABOUT PYKE -

People will suck at him for a while because he converts his bonus HP into bonus AD. This means he is SQUISHY AS FUCK. He has an all in kit, with his only reliable escape being his E, which is also one of his major engage tools. People will go all in and die because he doesn't have any durability. This will contribute HEAVILY to his early low winrates. People will need to learn to play around his squishiness in order to master him.

Nymzo1 votes

{quoted}

There is no chance in hell he has 48% winrate or higher on release. Pyke might not look like a super challenging champion to play based on his kit. The challenge will come in how unique he is. An assassin support is a brand new concept

I would like to disagree.

Brand Lux Zyra Velkoz

Buttsubushi2 votes

Leblanc

(^:

Summonah123691 votes

Doea any1 know if ap or ad works on him?

SeaChange3 votes

Full AD.

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