Boards›Gameplay

So, how do you counter Graves?

Malicious Metal··71 votes·11,710 views

Because my hair's already turning grey from all the ranked games I lost against this scruffy son of a gun. Every time I face him he's a pest to deal with simply because he: A; Deals a metric amount of damage B; Gets tanky as hell because of his affinity with LS and because he builds every single "tank" ADC item there is (item 3156 item 3046 item 3812 ) C; He's really mobile/sticky and a chore to pin down and slap to death.

This far none of my picks has been able to shut him down Mordekaiser Other ADC's die the moment I look at them funny but this M...Malcom just shrugs everything off I throw at him in terms of damage as well as being able to kite me despite my rylais, MS quints and Trinity force Viktor I'm having serious troubles killing him due to him being able to either tank my burst with his items or simply dash out of my storm and laz0r Nautilus I deal no damage and blowing all my CC on him makes the enemy ADC or mid run rampant while I just die due to my carries dropping like flies Skarner Combination of both Morde and Naut's problems

Sooo, any tips? 'Cause I got nothin'

165 Comments

Keepe69 votes

How to counter Graves?

Yorick. He reeeeeally digs Graves.

-Shot-

Kinetika3 votes

OMG upvote for the dadjoke.

GrReaper9628 votes

They should give Yorick a cigar

It Hertz When IP3 votes

Take my upvote and GTFO.

Blåbæret25 votes

He has no real counter. You'd think an assassin would be able to kill him, but that's not the case. He's far too tanky and you need to team up to kill him. I guess just get a Liss on your team to shut him down. You need hard CC.

But 1v1 I don't think anything can actually go 1v1 against a Graves. He should be reworked.

paperbIade2 votes

nasus probably

Aeszarck8 votes

{quoted}

He has no real counter. You'd think an assassin would be able to kill him, but that's not the case. He's far too tanky and you need to team up to kill him. I guess just get a Liss on your team to shut him down. You need hard CC.

But 1v1 I don't think anything can actually go 1v1 against a Graves. He should be reworked.

How about artillery? http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list Nidalee Lux Xerath Ziggs Velkoz Jayce Varus Ezreal

Qiy4na6 votes

lux definitely can't because of maw unless she's super fed

Aeszarck11 votes

{quoted}

lux definitely can't because of maw unless she's super fed

I know she's bursty, but Graves fine with burst combos. What matters more is that she can harass at a range Graves can't counter. Her harass isn't as good as some other mages because she has more burst, but it still hurts.

BIH Diamond2 votes

Yeah no fucking shit she beats him with harass IN lane. Most graves play jg and clear fast as fuck and proceed to 1 shot you

Aeszarck8 votes

[{quoted}](name=BIH Diamond,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M6t1z4Am,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-03T02:29:54.939+0000)

Yeah no fucking shit she beats him with harass IN lane. Most graves play jg and clear fast as fuck and proceed to 1 shot you

I'm not talking about harass in lane. I'm talking about if an artillery and Graves get into a 1v1 with adequate vision or a teamfight situation, the artillery can kite and harass Graves. Yeah they'll get destroyed if they go toe-to-toe, but that's not the point of artillery. They stay back and harass.

BIH Diamond4 votes

I'm talking about if an artillery and Graves get into a 1v1 with adequate vision or a teamfight situation

Not a chance. Graves can easily dodge lux q with his e and just 1 shot her. Obv if graves is a whole screen away he's not going to just chase her. If they ever get in a 1v1 it will usually be in a lane or in the jungle. No way in hell lux ever beats him. You must not play a lot of lux or graves

Aeszarck8 votes

[{quoted}](name=BIH Diamond,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M6t1z4Am,comment-id=0002000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-03T02:52:07.601+0000)

Not a chance. Graves can easily dodge lux q with his e and just 1 shot her. Obv if graves is a whole screen away he's not going to just chase her. If they ever get in a 1v1 it will usually be in a lane or in the jungle. No way in hell lux ever beats him. You must not play a lot of lux or graves

I'm just saying artillery champions as a whole beat him, because they outrange him and he doesn't have assassin level gap closers. If he gets close to them because he ambushed them or they made stupid decisions, then he wins, but that's the case with most champions when they get face to face with an artillery. Also, it's difficult to say whether a champion can dodge another champion's skillshot if it has a mobility spell. It's all up to player skill. Does Lux throw out her Q immediatly, or does she wait for Graves to close in? Does she wait for his E? Does she still miss because she's bad? Does Graves fail to dodge her spell with his E because he's bad? I don't think it's fair to say that a Graves can easily dodge it. He can dodge it, and he has one more tool than quite a few champions to do so, but just because he has one mobility spell doesn't mean he counters her or any other skillshot based champions.

IceKingChernobog6 votes

{quoted}

He has no real counter. You'd think an assassin would be able to kill him, but that's not the case. He's far too tanky and you need to team up to kill him. I guess just get a Liss on your team to shut him down. You need hard CC.

But 1v1 I don't think anything can actually go 1v1 against a Graves. He should be reworked.

he got reworked into a "tanky" undying abomination, remember. I never understood why graves needed to be changed so heavily in the adc rework.

Anidan4 votes

He was incredibly similar in playstyle to Lucian. It was a case of "If Graves > Lucian, then Graves; if Lucian > Graves, then Lucian." Their play style, their play patterns, their everything was so similar in action that whichever one was worse in that current balance cycle was redundant. Now they play different and fill out different goals and play styles.

As for the balance of the rework, that's a different issue. The reasoning for needing a rework, however, is definitely there.

Fate Fool1 votes

He should be reworked.

Nah Nah No, the rework is the problem. Undo the rework and he'll become the same relatively balanced adc that he used to be, which there was nothing wrong with, so I don't know why they reworked him to begin with.

An Undead brat9 votes

Because he was pracrically the same as Lucian so for the sake of diversity. Don't get me wrong, I like Riot's philosophy, but I don't approve the way they're approaching it in half the cases, because there is just too much cancer appearing and I don't think it's truth...

Bagguette2 votes

Only champion who can 1v1 graves is full ad fiora i find :\

Small Tiddies1 votes

As a Full AD Fiora main, agreed.

Bagguette2 votes

Cant really carry as tank fiora, full ad helps alot

xXxBillyJoexXx1 votes

actually Yasuo can fight him, cause half of graves burst comes from his abilities, by which yasuo can windwall, making it a huge pain for graves to fight

BurnSnake21 votes

Graves walks into a bar...

There is no counter

Sahn Uzal15 votes

Let me see, Graves Graves is a Ranged DivingFighter Marksman Skirmisher Assassin. The obvious awnser is that Graves gets countered by Crowd Controll, because this is the standard arguement for how to kill insert champion here

I'm suggesting a Braum Braum support to block his damage using Unbreakable, and apply his passive to the Graves. I recommend Jhin Jhin or Ashe Ashe ADC to follow up with Braum's crowd controll with their own. Take a midlane Malzahar Malzahar or Lissandra Lissandra for more lockdown and magic damage. Take a jungle Trundle so he can lower the Resistances Graves gets from his E And finish your teamcomp with a Fiora Fiora or Yasuo Yasuo in the toplane for the ability to melt tanks.

Chain all crowd controll and damage perfectly on the Graves, and he will most likely die. Come on people, it's not that hard :/

The Cane Master4 votes

All this has to be in place to keep one champion in check, great job Rito, much balanced.

BobIII8 votes

I was anticipating a meme post, slightly disappointed, but here's my advice as a fellow Diamond Morde main:

Graves is definitely one of Mordekaiser's tougher matchups. I recommend getting ninja tabi + seeker's armguard asap to prevent graves from bursting you down (he tends to itemize in flat armor pen, so any type of early armor will make a huge difference). Dont be afraid to buy lots of health potions between each back, this is a survival lane for Morde. Run ignite instead of teleport vs graves, the true damage and heal reduction makes it a lot tougher for him to force an all-in on you. Max w first in this matchup for sustain (your e is not worth using, he'll tank the damage and lifesteal back any harass you land on him with it). Once you get rylai's, you and your jungler can easily kill graves, especially if he starts to push the lane with his heavy aoe. You probably wont ever be able to 1v1 graves (unless you have a huge lead or build full ap + void staff), but he'll have huge trouble escaping a 2v1 gank against rylai's morde. Randuin's omen lets you shrug off most of Graves's damage lategame if you're still having issues with his dps. If you can survive in lane, you'll become much more relevant in teamfights than graves. If graves is the main threat to your team, consider getting void staff to deal with his high magic resist from quick-draw passive and maw.

In terms of counterpicks, Darius outscales him pretty hard both in laning phase and teamfights. He get's plenty of armor pen from black cleaver + apprehend to deal with grave's quick-draw resistances. Graves doesn't build much hp either, so the heavy true damage from Darius's ult does a huge chunk of his total health (This is extremely useful for procing stormraider's surge and chasing him down). Usually post level 6, I can all-in graves without him being able to fight back.

Overall though, graves falls off pretty hard once teamfights start happening, and almost any top-laner can outperform graves by simply building armor early on and staying relatively even in farm without dying.

TLDR;

Get back on Delicious Metal so we can discuss Morde strats again D:

Melledoneus8 votes

Jax and Kled can really mess up Graves if played right. Both are sticky and durable enough to tango with Graves, as well as having the insane amount of damage and sustain to take him down in a sustain battle.

Other than that, you'll need a team.

Friendly Ram8 votes

Normally burst him before his e gets pumping. otherwise try and stay away from walls. graves is still quite strong but this would be my advice.

specter4246 votes

banning him or teemo

IcyPepper2 votes

Confirmed: banning Teemo can counter Graves.

FantasySniper5 votes

None, really.

At levels 4 to 13, Graves is practically unbeatable, the rest of the game he's just slightly more beatable.

Aazzlano5 votes

Personally I just ban him every game. Not worth the hassle.

redfeenix4 votes

Sure ill give you some tips, if you help me figure out wtf to do vs a fizz.

Don't stand next to a wall so you can avoid his q dmg by walking away. Stand behind minions so his autos hit them instead of you.

Fucking hard cc at the start of the fight. do not let him get his free 140 armour/ Mr from True grit.

Yeh but he's tough with the Korean build eh? Viktor should do well with rylais, keep kiting him out.

The problem with him is his true grit which gives him the most resistances in the game because it stacks. You cannot kill him thru that, so wait for the stacks to fall off before engaging.

People with summons do well vs him ie zyra to kite and put up plants or malzahar.

Again its his fucking true grit passive you gotta play around, literally nothing much else.

Good luck bud

Chad Te Employee4 votes

As a graves main here are his counters.

Shyvana Ekko and pretty much any tank with a gap closer.

Kinetika3 votes

^ This. I was just about to post that I pick Shyv to counter Graves. I also like to pick Jax. Darius isn't a bad pick either. You just happen to have some picks (Skarner and Nautilus in particular) who don't really do well against him.

ManiacalCoyote4 votes

What about a totally bullshit Movement and Attack Speed slow?

CasterGilgamesh4 votes

well for one he is still a squishy adc he needs to buy damage to do anything he hardly has CC his only form of mobility and resistance steroid is on a relatively high CD if he doesn't constantly auto so CC is the name if the game.wait for the mid-laner to land a root or stun then just burst him down he is highly item dependent because like everyone keeps on saying he builds item 3812 item 3046 so he is only really hard to kill after full build but by then that mostly means he is fed or its late game which means you kinda deserve that.Kill him in the jungle early it still his camps counter jungling is your friend his ganks so be easy to dodge since he lacks Hard CC but still avoid getting flanked since he can still deal decent damage.lastly he has very short range and has to get deep in a fight to matter so of course it will be when he goes in when he is most easy to CC i cant stress how important CC is since if you dont CC him you need to make sure you burst him he should still be burst-able since item 3046 is only good in One V One situations also he is still taking the damage from item 3812 its just over time

IcyPepper17 votes

well for one he is still a squishy adc

http://bookriotcom.c.presscdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/drinking-tea.gif

CasterGilgamesh2 votes

squishy because most of what he builds is damage he can still be bursted down most of what makes him tanky are items and his dash which takes time to ramp up so till then he really isnt that tanky he isnt a Garen Amumu at most he is about as tanky as Jax the fact he is item dependent makes him Squishy only reason his squishyness isnt much of a problem is that he has a knock back for monsters so they cant hit him muhc

IcyPepper11 votes

He's definitely one of the tankiest adc's, especially if he builds a few bruiser items he synergizes with better than other ADC's would, due to his burst.

My point was just to poke a little fun at that quote, since he is by far not one of the squishier ADC's.

TNHA Baritone1 votes

I've seen some with 300 of each resistance...

IcyPepper2 votes

Jesus.

Not once have I ever seen 300 MR on a champion, not even a tank (mostly because ADC's are king and you kind of need armor as a tank...).

LatetotheRace4 votes

Nerf him. There's the solution.

ZeeWolfZ4 votes

How to Counter Graves:

Give him 7th nerf, this should put him into his place.

Snowplosion4 votes

Take away his vape.

Bârd4 votes

I'm more of a support player, but I've got a few toplane picks for you. Trundle R makes him into a squishy baby. A well timed pillar can either stop his dash or intercept his Q. Singed Who cares if you can't fight him? You can RUN. Urgot Poke him down. Max W second. Build something along the lines of item 3004 item 3142 item 3047 item 3071 item 3147 item 3812. Out-Graves the Graves. Oh, and swap him into your team. A Graves without any E stacks won't last long. Darius RenektonXinZhao Jax Irelia Get on top of him and murder him to death. Yorick bodyblock with the maiden and your horde.

Mordekaiser wants to be in melee range, but is slow enough that he can't QUITE get there against a kiting Graves. Viktor is bad if he gets snowballed on, which Graves is notorious for. Nautilus Skarner are pure CC: GREAT if combined with a hypercarry to melt your target, but useless if your team has low damage.

HateDaddy3 votes

Attack speed slows are the name of the game. Nasus and Malphite immediately come to mind, but you gotta survive him early. It's a chore but it can be done. Nasus will get to a point where graves dies by being within wither range and Malphite will straight up ignore him. It's hard to kill anyone as Malphite if they're not dumb because once your ult is down, you've lost all sticking power.

But my best counter for him is Jax. Level 1 fucking sucks unless he lets you get in melee range but once you get some levels, you can just dumb on him off cooldown and fuck his life up. Counterstrike also works well against him since he needs to weave AAs into between his spells, not to mention all of his spells damage is aoe and jaxs E reduces aoe damage.

Some other champs I'd suspect being good against him:

Ekko Fizz Pantheon Riven Yasuo

And I think Trundle could outsustain him early then just constantly force skirmishes and zone him

MunchCrunchLunch3 votes

in a 1v1. early game. only an isolated kha zix can actually 1v1 him.

mid and late game only fighters like yi jax or so can 1v1 him

assassins can't 1v1 him. and tanks can't. juggernauts can't for the most part. mages can't. hes too tanky.

teemo does well against him early on but when graves gets some MR that kind of goes away.

Kingnewgameplus3 votes

Play Yorick . Get it...cause...grav- I'll shut up now.

Toastersaot3 votes

"Be an LCS team that can craft a perfect poke comp, he's balanced.'-Rito 2016

Shaydrox2 votes

If you get close to him he rapes you If you don't he still rapes you Try oneshotting him and you won't even take half his HP He tries oneshotting you and you're dead before he even ulted

There's not a lot you can do vs current Graves, he should get reworked again

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Malicious Metal

The one buff Karthus NEEDS
Gameplay126 comments
464
votes
Viktor's Patch 6.9 entry shows that whoever worked on Vik has no idea who he truly is >_>
Gameplay224 comments
414
votes
I have achieved my final form!
Memes & Games62 comments
320
votes
There's actually an ingenious way to solve the whole FQC and Ap CDR crisis
Gameplay223 comments
280
votes
A champion should NEVER be made more clunky/less satisfying to play (Regarding Viktor's PBE changes)
Gameplay140 comments
279
votes
Malphite will be the best Camille counter
Memes & Games60 comments
257
votes