Orianna needs to be nerfed

Bultz·Jun 7, 2017·21 votes·1,870 views

She does a bit to much damage with very little mana use. She should be forced to use mana anytime her ball isn't on her like ASol does when he expands his stars. She doesn't have any issues with mana.

78 Comments

ƒrostγJun 7, 201710 votes

So it begins. The community made riot destroy Syndra, Lb, nerf Ahri and now Orianna is the next. Pathetic.

BultzJun 7, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Prince,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LyT6jW1Y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-07T15:04:15.169+0000)

So it begins. The community made riot destroy Syndra, Lb, nerf Ahri and now Orianna is the next. Pathetic.

She is a mana user, she gets huge damage and burst in exchange for being gated by mana, which at this point she doesn't seem to be gated at all.

ƒrostγJun 7, 20176 votes

{quoted}

She is a mana user, she gets huge damage and burst in exchange for being gated by mana, which at this point she doesn't se,em to be hated at all.

She doesn't have a huge burst. Out of 3 she only got 2 lines on her damage. Without items her burst is nothing to brag about. Her Q is almost spammable, so giving her higher mana costs would turn her into Lissandra, who is OOM after 5 Q or a full rotation. She is fine the way she is.

BultzJun 7, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Prince,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LyT6jW1Y,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-07T15:15:05.399+0000)

She doesn't have a huge burst. Out of 3 she only got 2 lines on her damage. Without items her burst is nothing to brag about. Her Q is almost spammable, so giving her higher mana costs would turn her into Lissandra, who is OOM after 5 Q or a full rotation. She is fine the way she is.

Let's not kid ourselves, I have seen her ult an entire team into the ground. She has a lot of burst. As far as without items, this is a game about items soo that seems to be a moot point. Yeah that is the point of being gated by mana, she is a mage not meant to be spammable. She doesn't get powerhouse damage, no mana issues, and also get to be a spam bot...

LightIsMyPathJun 7, 20174 votes

She is meant to be spamming q because she has to move the ball around if she wants to do .. Well anything else since her whole kit depends on the ball. I can't think of another mage that is literally unable to use half their kit if he has not available 2 spells, one of which dependant on allies' position. She is supposed to control zones with her ball so of course the ability to move it often is crucial.

VolphiJun 7, 20172 votes

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ƒrostγJun 7, 20172 votes

{quoted}

How does Orianna not have a huge burst? Are we playing the same game?

Most Ori's build Ludens Echo quite early which means Q+W+Luden's=TDL proc. That can half your HP, if not more. Her Q+W is already enough to deal some damage.

I like how you ignored when I said WITHOUT fcking ITEMS. Sure, if she gets a lead and builds offensive items, her burst potential is there. But she needs time to scale.

VolphiJun 7, 20172 votes

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ƒrostγJun 8, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I like how you ignored that MOST MAGES needs fucking items to burst. Go on and try burst with someone like Lux without items, you genius.

I hope you realize Lux is one of those champs who can 100-0 you at level 6 with nothing but a doran's ring. Same goes for Syndra and Annie. They are burst mages. Orianna isn't. If she wants to deal any meaningful damage, she needs items.

EDIT: Nvm, you're bronze, there is no point to continue this discussion.

VolphiJun 8, 20171 votes

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ƒrostγJun 8, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I hope you realize that you are talking bullshit. They can't burst anyone 100-0 with just doran ring. Stop being delusional.

You can call then whatever you want. That doesn't magically takes out burst from Orianna.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem But keep being delusional.

Like I said, you are bronze, so its like talking to a brick. In that Elo maybe even Sona is considered a burst mage.

VolphiJun 8, 20172 votes

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Lucian WaifuJun 8, 20172 votes

Ori lacks the single target damage of a burst mage, she can't 100-0 in one spell rotation you unless you suck or she is really fed or it is late game. In the latter case it doesn't matter because Ori is suppose to be one of the strongest mages late game. Having burst and being a burst mage are two totally different things. Lissandra has burst but you have to use more than one full rotation with ignite and autos to get a chance at 100-0 an enemy even if you are ahead by a bit.......

Also calling anyone a brick is an ad hominem so you prove yourself to be a complete hypocrite who just wants to satisfy your ego and think you are better and know more about the game than you really do.........

VolphiJun 8, 20172 votes

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Lucian WaifuJun 8, 20171 votes

Trolololol, all her spells do AoE damage that are all skill shot based.................................................................................................................................. Lux can also 100-0 with doran's ring quite easily because her ratios and bases along with her passive are higher and easier to stack onto a single target than ori.............................................................................................. Go back to playing in your bronze games, you clearly can't separate the salt you have and definitely don't have enough understanding of the game to talk about any champion in a constructive way. And don't try to claim you are smarter than others, your arguments are laughable from your anger and lack of game knowledge.

Ori Q does 60/90/120/150/180 + 50% and the damage is lowered by 10% for each enemy she hits with it. Her W does 70/115/160/205/250 + 70% ap, her E does 60/90/120/150/180 + 30% ap and her ult does 150/225/300 + 75% ap. None of those abilities are extremely powerful in damage or ratios, definitely weaker than lux's. Q does 50/100/150/200/250 + 70% ap, E does 60/105/150/195/240 + 60% ap, her ult does 300 ( Ori's MAXIMUM DAMAGE ON HER ULT) 400/500 + 75% AP on top of procing her passive and placing the illumination debuff on the target again. Plus Lux passive needs no wind up like ori passive to do damage and has far better ratios and bases and can be proc'd multiple times for far more damage than Ori could put out. You are just bad at understanding the game, ori does well in lane as long as you let her but doesn't have true burst mage damage like a lot of actual burst mages unless you just let her burst you.

VolphiJun 8, 20172 votes

[deleted]

Lucian WaifuJun 8, 20171 votes

Except that I have, you just don't want to see it and demand that the only right answer is something that only you will accept based on terms you make up. That's manipulative and shows you don't care, I am not responding anymore, I have done my job and everyone will see how wrong you are even though you won't.

VolphiJun 8, 20172 votes

[deleted]

HalcyonDwellerJun 11, 20172 votes

Well said!

HalcyonDwellerJun 9, 20172 votes

Dude, only assholes rank shame.

And people who are in bronze are not incapable of coming up with good ideas.

ƒrostγJun 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Dude, only assholes rank shame.

And people who are in bronze are not incapable of coming up with good ideas.

Lol so rank shaming is a thing now? Is it like fat shaming?

HalcyonDwellerJun 11, 20172 votes

It's always been a thing. I'm slightly misusing the term though.

The point is that people use the opposition's low rank as an excuse to discredit them rather than address their ideas in argument.

It's lazy and stupid. If you disagree with someone then you have to put the effort into disproving them. If you instead choose to rank-shame then you are taking the lazy way out, and simply acting like an asshole. It does nothing to actually address or disprove their ideas or argument.

LightIsMyPathJun 8, 20173 votes

Lux bursts just fine without items and surely more than orianna . Neither are going to 100-0 but while ori needs you around 1/2 hp Lux can do when you have 2/3 or slightly more if she hits the full combo

VolphiJun 8, 20171 votes

[deleted]

LightIsMyPathJun 8, 20172 votes

Neither of them can but Lux will reach that point before ori so so ori needs item even more.

VolphiJun 8, 20171 votes

[deleted]

LightIsMyPathJun 8, 20172 votes

You are not realistically hitting priority targets with Ori E unless enemies are very bad, it serves more as some help kiting (they have to change direction BC walking straight will damage them), waveclear tool and then when you place the ball on your engaging tank you are likely hitting enemy frontline with the travel for some extra damage. I mean it happens to me but I am low silver, my enemies are potatoes 🍠. Ori has burst sure (she is a burst/control mage) but it's inferior to other mages. Last time I checked she was one of the midlaners with lower damage per game (no idea how she fares now) and lower than her there were only champions like lulu or karma.

ShirvallahJun 7, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Prince,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LyT6jW1Y,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-07T15:15:05.399+0000)

She doesn't have a huge burst. Out of 3 she only got 2 lines on her damage. Without items her burst is nothing to brag about. Her Q is almost spammable, so giving her higher mana costs would turn her into Lissandra, who is OOM after 5 Q or a full rotation. She is fine the way she is.

Agreed. She has to be well-farmed or really ahead in kills before being able to do anything close to "burst" — usually 3 or 4 items in, specifically.

HyperiönJun 7, 20177 votes

She is gated by mana dude. Q is her life.

Her early level Q mana, maybe.

But at level 2, if she does a QW, right there is 1/3 of her mana pool haha.

BultzJun 7, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=FF Hyperion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LyT6jW1Y,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-06-07T15:36:25.751+0000)

She is gated by mana dude. Q is her life.

Her early level Q mana, maybe.

But at level 2, if she does a QW, right there is 1/3 of her mana pool haha.

But it isn't at all any of her mana. I haven't seen her ever actually run out of mana as much as have to go back because of low hp. She needs to be addressed. She has been a super high tier champion simply because she isn't punished enough.

HyperiönJun 7, 20175 votes

a 49% winrate, with a 16% playrate. seems perfectly fine.

As soon as you get Morellos, almost every mid laner is perfectly fine on mana.

Unless your Lissandra.

Want to know how to punish Orianna? If she goes to throw her ball at you, don't run away. Run at her because for the 1 second travel time of ball, she can't do anything.

LozaJun 7, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Prince,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LyT6jW1Y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-07T15:04:15.169+0000)

So it begins. The community made riot destroy Syndra, Lb, nerf Ahri and now Orianna is the next. Pathetic.

Destroy Syndra and LB??? What????? I am not sure what you mean? How are these champs "destroyed." Syndra presses R and LB is still cancer. Both of these champs have a strong laning phase. And only LB is the one who suffers at late game.

Ahri's nerf is a great one and did not "destroy" her, she is still doing what she is meant to do.

Orianna? Well, I ban it 100% if I am mid and have a chance at banning. I don't want to deal with a mid laner who has strong auto attacks, a strong burst, a strong shield, all while having a super safe laning phase. And that's not it, her mid and late game is also strong.

Orianna needs to get looked at, there's a reason it gets picked so frequently in competitive play.

LightIsMyPathJun 7, 20175 votes

Lb might be cancer but she WAS destroyed. She has absurd amount of damage on the chain and with gunblade, her main weakness got removed, this is not the champion she used to be (and mind me, I hated her a lot.. But it's still not nice when they totally change how a champion is supposed to work). Syndra was perfectly fine with her point and click nuke.. Because it took time and skill to set it up. Then they made it easier to set up balls.. And nerfed her :/

PennsJun 7, 20172 votes

Implying those champs arent a problem tho

LadyRenlyJun 7, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Prince,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LyT6jW1Y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-07T15:04:15.169+0000)

So it begins. The community made riot destroy Syndra, Lb, nerf Ahri and now Orianna is the next. Pathetic.

dont forget ninja tabi when the lethality meta was huge

RexxieeJun 7, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Prince,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LyT6jW1Y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-07T15:04:15.169+0000)

So it begins. The community made riot destroy Syndra, Lb, nerf Ahri and now Orianna is the next. Pathetic.

You mean the same syndra and LB that are still S tier mid laners in both solo q and competitive play?

They still need nerfs lmao.

RalanrJun 7, 20177 votes

{quoted}

She does a bit to much damage with very little mana use. She should be forced to use mana anytime her ball isn't on her like ASol does when he expands his stars. She doesn't have any issues with mana.

I don't understand what you mean exactly. She does use mana whenever she uses an ability to position her ball. The costs just seem negligible.

BultzJun 7, 20176 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand what you mean exactly. She does use mana whenever she uses an ability to position her ball. The costs just seem negligible.

She shouldn't be able to leave it in the middle of the field without it draining more mana. She is already a safe champion and her shield is super annoying. Her being able to swat a team with her ball and for it not to at least force her to think if she should or can leave it out for such long periods should be questioned.

RalanrJun 7, 20175 votes

{quoted}

She shouldn't be able to leave it in the middle of the field without it draining more mana. She is already a safe champion and her shield is super annoying. Her being able to swat a team with her ball and for it not to at least force her to think if she should or can leave it out for such long periods should be questioned.

That would be a horrific gutting since her Q does actually have a cooldown to position the ball so to avoid draining too much mana early she'd have to disengage far away enough for the ball to come back to her.

This would destroy her ability to solo lane.

BultzJun 7, 20174 votes

{quoted}

That would be a horrific gutting since her Q does actually have a cooldown to position the ball so to avoid draining too much mana early she'd have to disengage far away enough for the ball to come back to her.

This would destroy her ability to solo lane.

Well mages are supposed to be gated by mana and at this point WW is more gated than she is. She is considered a high tier champion, but needs to be downed a peg or two. I have fought several of them who almost never ran out of mana early game and could stay in lane without any issues. It might be hard on her, but atm she is too strong.

AvienalJun 7, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand what you mean exactly. She does use mana whenever she uses an ability to position her ball. The costs just seem negligible.

Granted, alot of 'certain' champions have mana costs being lower then the mana they should be using in compared to the damage and flexibility the kits they have with how much they can do, Syndra Azir both have insane utility for how their mechanics worked (Syndra being able to 'pop' her abilities practically anywhere allows her push harass and with proper prediction power, even shit on stealthers and a ultm to just instant kill pretty much anything, Azir being well, just plain too strong for a while)

In Orianna 's case she can move said object far distances, create 'move speed boon and slow down 'debuff' locations with it, shield herself and a ally, a useful 'bonus auto damage' to help with CS and some extra micromanaging damage between autos and her abilities. Her W is the only one with a 'high' mana costs but your likely going to save that for rank 1 utility and rush Q first and E second to take advantage of that 2nd 'damage' moving ability and rather easy armor/MR and shield she can throw on herself and allies(+30 armor/MR with a 240 base shield and 40% ap scaling is pretty strong to counter burst).

Granted she is telegraphing her range with the ball, but its hard to react at the speed it can be used and just like Heimerdinger , this means its relatively EASY for her to super harass people, rely less on her abilities for CSing because of her passive and easily stack up tons of damage and be able to mitigate damage greatly for her to be ganked. Basically like how Karma is just ridiculous in mechanics but the latter is because she gets her scummy ultimate right away and it isn't tacked on with high mana costs to prevent spamming so she can get away with relatively 'EZ dmg' even as a support with no proper 'huge' CD tacked to the R.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

[{quoted}](name=FF Hyperion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LyT6jW1Y,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-06-07T15:36:25.751+0000)

She is gated by mana dude. Q is her life.

Her early level Q mana, maybe.

But at level 2, if she does a QW, right there is 1/3 of her mana pool haha.

A bad Orianna likely be one who makes use of W early on, Obviously she would chunk her mana if she spammed W but part of the point is she can likely CS with autos quite fine so she isn't as locked up in using her abilities to harass, Especially when one wants to 'control' the lane and not rush it up early and risk a early game gank on them which Oriana could use her W and E for perfect early game escape power, double bonus if she makes the enemies waste a flash.

Granted she lives around her Q so it would be nice if she is locked up a bit more on how far she can 'throw it' and distance limit from her with maybe a bit more range reduction on how far she can be from the ball to force her better into a mid rangeish sort of champion position then basically a artillery mage with a somewhat 'easier' burst to control.

{quoted}

Let's not kid ourselves, I have seen her ult an entire team into the ground. She has a lot of burst. As far as without items, this is a game about items soo that seems to be a moot point. Yeah that is the point of being gated by mana, she is a mage not meant to be spammable. She doesn't get powerhouse damage, no mana issues, and also get to be a spam bot...

Basically my point, Either they gate her with some higher mana costs (+10 maybe +15 on both Q and E maybe?) so she has to keep her harass power to a playmaker level then harass every time her Q is up or they need to restrict how far she can 'harass' by putting her close neough for range enemies to be able to trade with her so she has to properly setup her harass and not basically be able to score a first blood without any jungle help on ends.

LightIsMyPathJun 7, 20173 votes

Orianna.. Artillery mage?? What drugs are you on mate? I want some too. (elcor style since we are in written dialogue: Joking tone not offensive). Artillery mages are the ones with loads of LONG RANGE , lowish cool down spells.. Such as ziggs, xerath, only partially Lux. You can't really compare Orianna playstyle to that, can you?

Back to the nerf topic, limiting her ability to move the ball would destroy her. If she comes up too over the line in bullying power they can lower q damage on champions to limit her harass and she would loose her early strength while keeping the safe lane and scaling , both of which she is supposed to have

LightIsMyPathJun 7, 20173 votes

Or maybe her competition needs to be buffed..? Most mages got nerfs either directly or indirectly so she is stronger since she's untouched. Not to talk about the fact that new banshee naturally advantage some mages over the others, like Ori who can proc it with q and then proceed to use the rest of her combo. Then in this snowball meta where fights for objectives are happening soon and often a control mage is valuable to have.. Help me take a look at others control mage: Anivia got neerfed, Viktor and talyiah got both directly nerfed and then fucked over some more thanks to rilay changes, zyra was basically pushed into support role, lissandra if we want to include her .. Well no idea what happened to her since she disappeared but I would guess thunderlord is not kind to her since she has no way to proc it in lane trades but she needs the extra burst for all ins and she doesn't have dots or spammable spells to make dfg a valuable choice either (but this is only my guess). That's all of them in my mind.. Maybe Lux and syndra can be counted to have an hybrid control aspect and the first is unreliable , the second got nerfed repeatedly after being broken by mymu.

AvienalJun 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Or maybe her competition needs to be buffed..? Most mages got nerfs either directly or indirectly so she is stronger since she's untouched. Not to talk about the fact that new banshee naturally advantage some mages over the others, like Ori who can proc it with q and then proceed to use the rest of her combo. Then in this snowball meta where fights for objectives are happening soon and often a control mage is valuable to have.. Help me take a look at others control mage: Anivia got neerfed, Viktor and talyiah got both directly nerfed and then fucked over some more thanks to rilay changes, zyra was basically pushed into support role, lissandra if we want to include her .. Well no idea what happened to her since she disappeared but I would guess thunderlord is not kind to her since she has no way to proc it in lane trades but she needs the extra burst for all ins and she doesn't have dots or spammable spells to make dfg a valuable choice either (but this is only my guess). That's all of them in my mind.. Maybe Lux and syndra can be counted to have an hybrid control aspect and the first is unreliable , the second got nerfed repeatedly after being broken by mymu.

If the comp got buffed wrecklessly then it would be Ziggs ADC and Malz Support all over again. The main issue is rather 'easy' early game champions get to decide matches too easily and Orianna, Le'blanc, Syndra and so on Even ones who scale into late game but might as well have insane early game power too. Its become less about playmaking a match's decisive blow and just simply 'zerging a win' in the end with how much damage early game gets to have on ends.

Especially when things like lane don't matter with Rift herald being rather easy to solo pick up by 6ish and even then a propre forcing enemy team to back can let jungler and bot lane EZ rush a turret dead by half or even less.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

With Orianna it was mainly a champion who got left alone and creeped into a position of 'alot of power' because AP champions in general became the top grab for mid after Lethality got its just desserts and gave way to the side that could 'exploit' M pen now and just 'adore' playing aggressive AP damage type supports too.

LightIsMyPathJun 7, 20172 votes

Can't see how buffing mages could lead to ziggs ADC and malz support. For the first, he needs higher base then scaling if he starts going duo lane to keep him solo, the second needs higher scaling than base if he starts going support. For the early game I agree on your view but for some champions this shows even more how bad their state is. Taliyah should be excelling in such a meta yet she's not very played. She is in a meh state ( I didn't check this patch stats but this tendency goes from some time now, and she has been meh at best ) in a period where her winrate and playrate should have been over the sky. Lissandra should also be happy in a meta where she doesn't reach late game with bad scalings yet she's non-existant..

My point is I think there is a problem in midlane and seeing more Orianna is a symptom (overall balance problem) not the cause (ori op). Nerfing ori doesn't resolve anything, it just lowers the powerbudget of midlaners, Nerf after Nerf .. ( we had nerfs on Viktor then on anivia then on talyiah then on cassio then on syndra then on kata then on syndra again then ahri now ori is left and people are asking for nerfs.. Leaving aside lulu and karma who got pushed out of mid on the way. On all this the only buff I can think about is Lux's r reset .. Which I consider a bad decision)

DoktorKaiserJun 7, 20173 votes

Ok, yes, she is perhaps the strongest mage atm but those are the most stupid fucking nerfs I have ever read on this forum. Drain mana when the ball is not on her ??? I bet you are bronze or silver without even looking... Btw have you seen how broken Morellonomicon is? Every single mage can spam without going oom these days and Ori is the biggest abuser so why not nerf the item perhaps and buff other mages, especially the ones that have been shit for several seasons and turned into supports.