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for the love of god can we please make AP items on par with AD ones?

Call Me Nana·Jul 23, 2018·3 votes·961 views

Mages still have no defence against AD champs. is all we got. Lets be real.

These bullshit items shoudl NOT exist in the game: Like really? You dont attack for 1 whole second to gain 200% crit damage? and autoing once for half your hp because of duskblade?

Can we change Ludens and Lichbane to match these so at least we can play fair? Jesus christ.

Ludens: After not attacking for 1 second, your next spell does 200% damage Lich bane: UNIQUE: +18 MAGIC PEN (11.2 - 18 (based on level) Magic penetration) UNIQUE – NIGHTSTALKER: After being unseen for at least 1 second, your next basic attack against an enemy champion deals 30 - 200 (based on level) bonus on-hit magical damage and Slow icon slows by 99% for 0.25 seconds. The enhanced attack lasts 5 seconds after being seen by an enemy champion. UNIQUE: When spotted by an enemy ward or Noxious Trap traps, gain Blackout over a 400-unit radius for 8 seconds (90 second cooldown). UNIQUE – BLACKOUT: You Disabled Ward icon disable surrounding wards, as well as Exposed icon exposing stealthed wards and Noxious Trap traps. The effects linger for 2 seconds after you walk away. Melee role Melee basic attacks instantly kill wards or traps revealed by Blackout. Blackout does not extend over terrain.

oh lets also add a magical version of

maybe now we can play fairly?

22 Comments

Pika FoxJul 23, 20183 votes

Your items are already on par.

RexxieeJul 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LeNEHYBi,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-07-23T16:58:59.681+0000)

Your items are already on par.

Actually they arent, op is asking for AP item nerfs so they can be on par with AD items, that would make more sense.

Like seriously, how can ppl complain about ap items being bad when theres like atleast 2 mages per game right now? Mages have literally kicked both adcs and supports out of bot lane.

rtbf221651412Jul 23, 20182 votes

200% of the highest AD item is 160.

200% of the highest AP item?

More than 240. Might want to look at the math again or explain why it is a good idea to do that instead of like 160% or something else.

Call Me NanaJul 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

200% of the highest AD item is 160.

200% of the highest AP item?

More than 240. Might want to look at the math again or explain why it is a good idea to do that instead of like 160% or something else.

its just a realization that something needs to be done to make things fair. (stormrazor says 160% scaling up to 200%) i just took the max values to show how insane this has become. Im surprised it even made it out of testing, tbh

rtbf221651412Jul 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=sparkle flies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LeNEHYBi,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-07-23T16:02:36.059+0000)

its just a realization that something needs to be done to make things fair. (stormrazor says 160% scaling up to 200%) i just took the max values to show how insane this has become. Im surprised it even made it out of testing, tbh

I mean you aren't wrong, but still.

pseudo dionysiusJul 23, 20181 votes

item 3134 nullifies item 3191 and any other armor item you build. Truly disgusting how its been left in the game this long.

Call Me NanaJul 23, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=cyber heckler ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LeNEHYBi,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-23T15:59:23.790+0000)

nullifies and any other armor item you build. Truly disgusting how its been left in the game this long.

want to lose lane to an ad champ? item 3155 BAM! instant loss. Theres no reason why 1300 gold should absorb ults at every stage of the game.

MrFawknSunshineJul 23, 20182 votes

how does 10 leathality nullify 30 armor + the stacking armor of it + base armor

rtbf221651412Jul 23, 20183 votes

{quoted}

how does 10 leathality nullify 30 armor + the stacking armor of it + base armor

Shhhh. We know 7 armor penetration is going to ignore 30 armor.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Whisper87Jul 23, 20181 votes

Totally agree that these mid game power spike items and defense/offense hybrid items are totally unbalanced for AP and AD. I've always felt that there should be a AD and an AP version of all 4 defense/offense items.

Hexdrinker - Zhonyas - Guardian Angel - Banshees

I mean Rylais and Mallet are like mirrors of each other. Let's just roll that out to the other three items to be situationally appropriate. I mean I think we can all agree that any kind of carry would benefit from being able to choose from those 4 items from game to game. With different ones being better in different scenarios.

MrFawknSunshineJul 23, 20183 votes

ok how is hexdrinker not like banshees?

how is zhonyas not like GA?

Whisper87Jul 23, 20181 votes

They are situationally different. If you are afraid of getting 100-0 from AP lets say like Kassadin or LB regardless of CC, hexdrinker is better. If you are playing against something like a Lux or a Thresh/Blitz and are like "as long as I don't get yanked I'm good" banshees is better since it doesn't block as much damage but negates the entire spell. Hexdrinker is better if they don't have CC or if you feel like it's unavoidable and you need to just have a chance to survive the inevitable burst (also really good into AOE like Viktor/Anivia ults).

Zhonyas is not the same cuz you get to choose the timing, unlike GA. Zhonyas you could theoretically pop to dodge an skill all together and come out of stasis at full HP. While with GA you have a loooon revive and have 0 chance of coming out with full HP. Often times everyone on your team is dead by the time you come out of it, so in a bursty meta like right now it's not that great. Being able to have a banshees or a zhonyas on your ADC in my opinion would be waaaaay better than GA in the current meta because while it does not bring a revive, it can potentially prevent a pick from ever happening to begin with.

GA is good in long team fights. Banshees and Zhonyas better in picks/ganks/skirmishes/duels. I mean just imagine the impact of having a banshees on your ADC if you're playing into like a Thresh-Zoe comp. Or like if you were an ADC and you see a Rakan come diving in, you just pop Zhonyas and wait out his ult. Boom.

MrFawknSunshineJul 23, 20181 votes

right. ok, and mages are long range/zone/ have aoe or cc in their kits

Whisper87Jul 23, 20181 votes

Right, so hexdrinker enables assassins to do what they are built to do safely, dive and kill. So, conversely, mages should have tools to allow them to step up and poke/zone/CC. If you give two classes equal footing to accomplish their tasks, it becomes less about champ select and more about mechanics & proper itemization. Which I think most people would agree is better.

MrFawknSunshineJul 23, 20181 votes

item 3191 1100 gold gives armor 45 and ap 35 ( when stacked ) item 3155 1300 gold gives less ad and less mr compared to seekers

you can get a free component of hourglass from runes item 2420 so you can it to pretty much begin game with and get to hourglass quicker and for 600 gold less

mages do have tools to poke and zone its call range and aoe , if not stun/snare/slow in their kits as well

Whisper87Jul 23, 20181 votes

Right so, Casters either have to sacrifice a rune slot for a one time use item, or pay an extra 400 Gold to get form two items what AD champs get from 1 item. And it has unlmited uses. Unlike stopwatch which you use once then you have to buy a whole fiendish codex plus pay combine cost to get the use out of it again.

Also, hexdrinker is a perfectly viable first buy on a ad assassin. Where as mages have to build and entire lost chapter before they can start branching off into defensive options.

Here's my take on it, just taking stats and kits into account, assassins already have a plenty big leg up in the early game and lane phase. You do not need to exacerbate the issue even more by also making the premier item in that head to head matchup cheaper and more efficient for the assassin.

If you put in a AP item that literally was just the converse of Hexdrinker - the Ad assassin vs mage lane phase would still be perfectly balanced

MrFawknSunshineJul 23, 20181 votes

if you get a free item to use in game from runes how is that a disadvantage?

seekers is cheaper then hex drinker, gives more armor and ap then hex gives ad/mr

item 3157 2900 - 600 gold for free stop watch is 2300 gold item 3156 3250 gold

a gold difference of 950 gold

plus if u are going into that tree to get the stop watch u are most likely taking the free boots as well so thats another +300 gold you have

mages dont have to build into a lost chapter before anything

a mage can start with dorans ring + stop watch and 2 pots lvl 1 thats a lot of sustain and stats to begin with.

Whisper87Jul 23, 20181 votes

You can't take free boots and stopwatch anymore, they are in the same tree.

And it is a disadvantage one the game get's to latter portions of mid game because by that point gold leads are starting to taper off so you would rather have a small stat boost than to have gotten 300G taken off your build.

Also your point about Maw proves my point. WIth hexdrinker you don't need the complete item. That 1300g item remains viable all game long and you don't need to upgrade to Maw until you have all other items. It's a luxury thing. Stopwatch you get to use one time and then it's useless until you farm another 1600G. In that amount of time an assassin can easily all in you at least twice.

Again, I don't think putting the assassin and mage on equal footing as far as direct matchup items go really nerfs them noticeably due simply to how their kits work and that assassins generally have tools to get in and out without dying already built in.

And if we are worried about assassins getting poked out in early lane, isn't that kind of the point? That assassins are meant to go for kills. Like they should be required to go for kills. They are supposed to be high risk-high reward. Like you go in and get kills or you fall behind, that's it. By giving them an item that makes them durable enough to sit in lane and wave clear vs a mage is silly. The way out of that unfavorable matchup should be through kills, not jsut sitting in lane wave clearing until you get a gank or until you have a powerspike tha twill just let you tower dive at will as Zed/Talon.

There absolutely should be a window before the 100-0 potential of a AD assassin unlocks that the mage can poke them out of lane potentially without losing a ton of farm or pushing so hard that you draw a gank.

MrFawknSunshineJul 23, 20181 votes

yet seekers is 1100 gold and gives 45 armor and ap

still less then hex and mages are ranged melee assassins arent, they might have some medium range spells ( talons rake and etc) but they are melee for the majority

Pokemonred200Jul 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I mean just imagine the impact of having a banshees on your ADC if you're playing into like a Thresh-Zoe comp

I personally don't have to imagine it. Before Banshee's Veil and Abyssal Scepter had their recipes/roles swapped, Banshee's was an occasional pick on marksmen who didn't need the revive. That shit was a godsend sometimes, before they made the item a full-fledged mage item.

LauchmelderJul 23, 20181 votes

Hexdrinker is a component while Banshees is a completed item. Hexdrinker disables mages until later in the game. Banshees gets disabled by landing 1 skill.

Zhonyas puts you into stasis so your cooldowns can come back up, while you got the time of 1 live + the time being in stasis to deal damage (while being in stasis that being no damage at all), while GA gives you 1.5 lives worth of damage.

What's the difference between a shield and a cleanse? That's the kind of question you're asking here. The answer: They are completely different from each other.

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