Do you have to play an assassin to win mid lane?

GeÌst·Apr 25, 2017·1 votes·1,822 views

Is there even a point to playing a non-assassin in mid now? I stopped playing ranked for awhile at the beginning of the season just bc the assassin's were completely op at the time. They still seem strong but,now, it seems to be the ap assassins that are dominating in soloQ whereas it was the ad assassin's before. I hate playing the assassins but if it is the only way to rank up then I guess I'll have to. I hate playing against them even more as they just don't seem to really have any weakness to exploit like most other midlaners do. If you try to get aggressive with them, then they just turn around and insta kill you but if you try to play a passive lane and out farm them, then they roam and you lose bc they got fed off your teammates. If you push them under tower, then once again they just turn around and kill you. I've tried playing champs that are supposed to be good against them just to have one of the above 3 to happen or if i try to play the champs i want to then they just kill me and the lane (normally the game as well) is lost. Is it even possible to win against a decent assassin anymore? Are mage champs or any non-assassin worth picking up for mid now?

As of right now, if something doesn't change I'm just going to have to give up on mid lane and and chance of going up in ranks.

20 Comments

MissingKayoApr 25, 20172 votes

Um, almost all assassins are shit. And almost every single of the top/best midlaners are mages. There's a good reason for that.

GeÌstApr 25, 20171 votes

How so? Most sites I look at to try to find champion info from and from my matches they are stupid strong still especially fizz.

EDIT: I know they aren't that good at scaling or team fights but that hardly matters if the match never really makes it to team fights or late game.

MissingKayoApr 25, 20171 votes

https://na.op.gg/champion/statistics

Your personal anecdotal data is irrelevant.

Fizz is mostly just because his tank build is busted, rather than his AP.

And then the only other notable mid assassins are Katarina who's extremely difficult, and Talon, who has a strong early cheese/pressure.

GeÌstApr 25, 20171 votes

Yeah. I was always told that op.gg is shit for champion info so i stopped using it. Kat zed and akali are the only assassins i dont think are easy enough to be op but even at my silver elo people can dominate on them and it happens fairly often.

MissingKayoApr 25, 20171 votes

champion.gg is the one that's infamous for faulty data, although they're getting better at it (They listened to feedback and suggestions and are now using a new algorithm as well as updating faster)

Assassins tend to dominate in low ELO and public/normal games because more inexperienced players don't know how to properly shut them down.

GeÌstApr 25, 20171 votes

I wouldn't say I'm inexperienced so much as I could never find someone or a video or something to tell me how to shut them down.

Fed by Snu SnuApr 25, 20171 votes

Nah, most anti-assassins can handle it.

Like Orianna and Karma.

GeÌstApr 25, 20171 votes

That's why i played ori at the beginning but now it doesnt seem to stop anything at all.

Edge of DaybreakApr 25, 20171 votes

Mages dominate mid they have for many seasons. You play mages to win. If you can't beat an assassin as a mage right now you need to improve your play.

GeÌstApr 25, 20171 votes

I know what i need to do but telling me to do doesnt help me do it. That's what this is about. Finding someone who can tell me how to actually beat an assassin or at the very least keep them from being fed by others.

MissingKayoApr 25, 20171 votes

Against AP assassin: Lost Chapter + Negatron Cloak early Against AD assassin: Armseeker's + Tabi's early.

Respect power spikes. Ping on roams and MIAs. Warn people to ward up. Ward up. When they're gone, shove their lane in to tower so they miss CS and take tower damage in return.

GeÌstApr 25, 20171 votes

Then it's my items more than anything and the fact that at my elo people won't listen to pings when i ping mia

WitchQueen AnnieApr 25, 20171 votes

Vladimir is the key

GeÌstApr 25, 20171 votes

Tried that last game and got fucked by a fizz. At level 3 he damn near killed me from full health without assistance from the jg while I was farming.

WitchQueen AnnieApr 25, 20171 votes

Hmmm... its a bit hard to explain but basically with Vlad, you want to "test the waters" with the player. You really only have 1 damage spell (Q) for trades early (E is too expensive healthwise and cooldown wise and its high risk) but the advantage is that you have infinite sustain, no mana costs, and scale better into late than the enemy laner while being super safe.

There's this rhythm where you poke with autos and Qs but as soon as you see he's out damaging/trading you (and they might because they have more damage spells, you only have 1 Q), you want to back down and there's a "cool off" period where you focus on getting your health back for free, avoiding damage, and using minion positioning to stall.

There's kind of a "dance" in lane where you have these "I WANT THE BLOOD" and "let's cool off" phases, kind of like a serial killer. If Dexter did nothing but kill people 24/7 even when the heat is on he's going down. So you want to always calculate and alternate.

I mean with Vlad you're always deciding, based on how he reacts to you, whether you want to go for cheese kills after some casual Q pokes (empowered Q coming up... E charge + Flash + E pop + Q +autos and pool (Ult if you have it during the Flash)) or if you are better off just farming and "winning" the lane by stalemating and outscaling. Because you have no mana costs, infinite sustain, and a pool for escapes you can farm FOR A LONG TIME. The thing is, with Vlad if you can avoid about half of the other guy's damage through sidesteps and minion positioning... he's not going to be able to kill you because whatever else hits you will just be healed back.

You do eventually become GOD (like, every time you go in a teamfight, if its the right moment... double kills, triple kills etc) but that's not until you have some damage items and at least 4 points in Tides of Blood (this is a general gage of your power, the points in Tides of Blood but you do have to max Q first).

GeÌstApr 25, 20171 votes

I've never gotten above a double with vlad even in late game. as for the trading part, if i go to trade at any point in the game they almost always win it since they have such better burst so early on.

WitchQueen AnnieApr 26, 20171 votes

With Vlad its more like a "poking motion." You want to Q without getting hit in return if possible.

You Q him reflexively (when you feel he won't react fast enough or you know his spell is down) or when you see an ability is down. The best part about Vlad is even if you mess up, you can counteract some of the damage with the heal.

But more often than not, you should be Q-ing and not taking damage in return (a quick hit and run motion).

At least in lane. Later on when you have 4 points in Tides of Blood... Vlad becomes more of an "When am I going to Ghost in... Ult 3 or 4 of them, and spam AOE spells at the squishies" type character.

He basically plays like a late game AOE assassin. He has 100-0 potential (Ult + Tides of Blood + Qs so long as the Tides are hitting) in the late game but its multi-target. He's essentially an assassin on hard drugs.

One strategy is to wait for the fight to begin... then suddenly Ghost in from a random positoin, run at the squishies and just blast away. Tides of Blood should always be cast while moving towards the target. Its on a 2 second cool down at 4 points and with enough CDR, its insanely OP.

Problem is if your team throws game before you can get there....

WitchQueen AnnieApr 25, 20171 votes

I tried playing some assassins but because you generally have no range and no AOE, it feels very hard to win team fights without a good team. Mages feel less team-dependent and more flexible. And assassins all get outscaled I think.

Late game as an assassin, its just too hard to consistently have to make these perfect close quarters plays (mobility or no mobility) when everyone's at full build (max damage and max health). Its just easier to make the correct plays with mages.

I feel that a 3 kill Viktor is in many cases more impactful than a 5 kill Zed , the whole game considered. I mean at 3 items, Viktor basically has as much burst damage except its ranged and its AOE. So unless your Zed is super good at closing out the game (which is team dependent even if you snowball), you're on a death timer.

GeÌstApr 25, 20171 votes

most of the time when i played Talon , if it made it to team fights, i'd be so fed that even if my team took a stupid fight or was losing the fight i'd be able to get the carries and still come out with the win, most games. I'm a lux main and prefer the mages in general but i struggle playing against assassin's most of the time as a mage or even if i pick a champ that is supposed to counter them

WitchQueen AnnieApr 26, 20171 votes

I dunno... its possible I'm just a bad assassin player (or at least better at playing against then as an assassin).

But I generally feel like if I go into ranked and they pick an assassin and I get my good mage picks, they've half lost the game already. But I might just be bad at assassins