Is there a chance for average players to improve?

GeÌst·Apr 13, 2017·2 votes·874 views

I'm a s5 mid main and struggle to get anything going in ranked. Most of the time, my loses happen because of 1 or more of 4 things.

The person that is in a position to carry gets caught/ thinks they can 1v5 and gets killed then we lose the ensuing 4v5 while we try to defend.
Everyone on my team, including me, is playing bad and we can't get anything going our way before they end.
(this doesn't happen often) I'm the only one in a position to carry and either my team can't peel for me or I just can't do enough to carry.
(this happen even less than #3) I'm playing so bad that my team can't carry me. On a lot of these, I do well in lane phase. Unless I get shoved under tower the whole time, I generally help out my side lanes a good bit but almost immediately after lane phase everything goes wrong. My teams won't group, I'm suddenly missing skill shots more often and, even if we win a team fight, we don't get objectives after, even with pinging for them.

All this tilts me hard and makes me wonder what I could do better. Like I know, I'm probably not even okay at map awareness and I sometimes miss position. I've improved considerably since I really started trying to about a year ago but now I just feel stuck and useless. I've watched tons of videos and streams but though barely help. I've tried the practice tool to improve on a few aspects of the game but in a real match I seem to be able to use half of what I practiced so this doesn't help much. I've tried watching my own replays in an attempt to find more mistakes that I don't already see while I'm in the match but normally all I see are the ones I already know but are unsure on how to fix.

So is there any way I can improve so that I lose less via the first two reasons? Am I just missing something that's holding me back? Am I just a lost cause? Last but not least, is there anyway I can work on my positioning specifically as I don't really know how to?

EDIT: If you look up my stats on op.gg or where ever they are probably not current as i stopped playing ranked much awhile back.

40 Comments

Mizuki ZahraApr 13, 20171 votes

try using the champs you main in a normal or blind pick with no runes and no masteries to get a "feel" for base stats

GeÌstApr 13, 20171 votes

I was told to do this for practicing csing in practice tool. Tried it with Fizz, whom I haven't really played since he was released years ago, and didn't do terrible. but the only champ i can say i really main is lux which screws me with all the assassin's in mid though i can still beat the silver assassin's as lux normally

HalcyonDwellerApr 13, 20171 votes

If your team has a fed player who is trying to do things their way and is bullheaded you will find more success by just following them and sticking together.

A lot of games I've lost because we had someone who could carry but wanted to do something different than the rest of the team and died because we weren't together.

It's easy for us to blame them for not going with the majority, and it's easy for them to blame us for not helping. Who's at fault isn't really important; the end result is all that matters. They die and we lose defending a 4v5. It's better to stick together and guide their decisions with suggestions and pings.

If the player being bullheaded isn't the one who is ahead, you can point out the player doing best on your team. Saying stuff like, "Hey our top laner is really fed, lets stay near them so we don't fight without our best player." People usually agree to follow others based on score, so it's the easiest way to convince people to follow a common strategy.

FrightningApr 13, 20171 votes

Improve your individual player skill. You should seek to:

-Always dominate lane (this requires learning mid champions and how they work and how to beat them) -Roam effectively to snowball other lanes (early game macro decision making) -Ward constantly (that trinket should always be generating more charges, which it only does if you keep warding as charges become available) -Rotate to the correct part of the map for the given situation (good post laning phase macro play decision making)

I had a 70% win rate in season 3 ranked when I hit Silver II (after getting double promoted from Silver IV). I almost always got fed in those games and often used my advantage to also snowball my allies.

If you want, I'd be willing to give you some free coaching. Point you more specifically towards what you can improve to get better at the game. I've been playing since season 1 and play nearly every champion in the game (quite the generalist these days), so I've learned a lot about the game.

GeÌstApr 13, 20171 votes

I would very much appreciate the coaching and I have also played since season 1 and know a good bit of the champs well enough to beat them in lane however I've only recently startd trying to improve.

FrightningApr 14, 20171 votes

Send me an add on LoL client then. :)

GeÌstApr 14, 20171 votes

Same name on here as in game? mines the same

FrightningApr 14, 20171 votes

Yes

Azure HamsterApr 13, 20171 votes

I'd like to point out that S5 is near the middle of the bell curve of players (I think the midpoint is S3), and not all players play ranked. So you're probably above average. :)

One of the big important things to know is that if you're losing your lane, the answer is not to try to get kills to catch up. They're ahead, you already lost engagements, it will only get worse. Assuming no smurfs, the matchmaker has put you with other people roughly in your area of skill. So if you're outmatched in your lane, chances are one of your other opponents are outmatched in theirs. Don't feed your lane. Just pull back, cs where you can, give up turrets as you have to in order to live. This allows the other lanes to win without getting hammered when your lane opponent (if you fed them) roams.

This is one thing that has really helped me as ADC.

Caitlyn

GeÌstApr 13, 20171 votes

Normally when i have to pull back, i end up missing so much cs that im just useless for the rest of the match.

GeÌstApr 13, 20171 votes

I normally do pull back especially if they got a kill off me or who ever but that generally makes it to were i can't get enough cs to even be helpful later. I end up just being wasted pick in an important position. Also at most i don't see me being better than gold but even then i'm not sure i belong there. some games i swear i belong in B5

franchise7676Apr 13, 20171 votes

PennsApr 13, 20171 votes

Well looking at your kdas and win rates theyre way better than mine (https://i.gyazo.com/2a0f02f5f6263d1e9f76584f0c281534.png ) and Im almost diamond xd

So I guess if you just play more youre probably good unless youre doing something horribly wrong to not climb with these stats but I cant really judge that by just reading a post.

KilanostApr 13, 20171 votes

Problem is the assassin picks most likely. See my other post to the OP concerning why this may go wrong for him.

GeÌstApr 13, 20171 votes

I was always told kda didnt matter much unless youre feeding a ton then there is a problem

PennsApr 13, 20171 votes

I mean.. thats what people say but when youre like 8/2 and lose its likely your teams fault lol. Sure you shouldnt blame them and focus on what you maybe couldve done better but.. still.

GeÌstApr 13, 20171 votes

I see. Good to know. Most of my lux games i go like 10-2 or 12-3 as my op.gg kda says i do for her lol most of my loses with her i dont really remember but there is one that still bothers me sometimes but not normally during a match.

KilanostApr 13, 20171 votes

Just looked at the champions you play most and I will offer a suggestion: Don't play assassins unless your team comp can handle what it loses by not having a mage.

What does your team lose not having a mage?

Reliable, free poke- seige defense and offensive
wave clear--seige defense and offense
cc-safety
more reliable damage
If you're playing talon the team also likely loses a good mix of AD and AP damage.

The game starts in champ select. Play it smart.

EDIT: Also, stop dying so much. You're feeding the enemy team to get fed yourself. You get stronger relative to the enemy team but the rest of your team gets weaker relative to the enemy team.

GeÌstApr 13, 20171 votes

Normally i dont die much during lane phase but after that my deaths go up as normally i get little to no peel from teammates or i position bad in team fights but it is really bad in my lost matches. also i dont play assassin's much. i dont like the style. only have 18 ranked games as talon bc i did well with him for a while there but i hated playing him as he was so strong that it didnt matter if i played poorly as i almost always got who i wanted to kill. Most of my op.gg stats are from the begining of this season. not many recent ranked games.

EDIT: forgot about ekko. I quite playing him as i only did well with him in norms but could never transfer that to ranked.

KilanostApr 13, 20171 votes

Fizz is an assassin, my man. He's your most played champion.

Though none of this really explains why your win rates look solid and you're not climbing. Either your mmr is completely fucked or you get really unlucky in your promos.

If your mmr is fucked, next time you get to promos, dodge them both. You dont lose mmr but you'll stay the same ranked which will increase your mmr relative to your rank which will mean more lp per win and less lp per loss. Do it a couple times and then move forward to the next rank around the point where you're getting 20 LP per win.

GeÌstApr 13, 20171 votes

Uh where are you getting these stats. I've only played like 2 games with fizz recently and none for years before that. Yeah op.gg says my mmr is at a b1 level right now. ill have to try that promo thing. but do you mean dodge during the champ select or at the start of the game? If it's champ select i didnt realise that caused a loss for promos and it's good to know lol

KilanostApr 13, 20171 votes

Oh nevermind, he was posting his own game stats.

You dodge in champ select. You'll get a loss for your promos but mmr will hold. Then win the next two and dodge twice again. repeat until your mmr is normalized.

KilanostApr 13, 20171 votes

Also, stop playing ezreal. Stick with your highest win rate champions and only play them.

GeÌstApr 13, 20171 votes

The only other adc im decent with, thats worth playing, gets banned and picked so often so im stuck with ez.

KilanostApr 13, 20171 votes

In that case, never play bot again. dodge if you autofill to adc or switch with the support (a lot of supports can adc well enough to get by). If bot is your secondary, pick a different secondary that gets picked more often. Top i believe is the second most picked after mid. Have that as secondary. Buy mundo. If you get put top, just play mundo. He does extremely well at low elo and is as close to brainless as a champion can come. Thats what I do and I think I'm 8-1 with mundo top in ranked.

GeÌstApr 14, 20171 votes

I have all the champs and I use to put top but now every time i get stuck in top i get fucked over by the other two lanes. i cant gank enough from up there and bot doesnt normally put wards in a place good enough for me to tp down there. also i dont believe there are any decent adc's in my elo. in most of my matches they lose and feed hard but with lux i can just burst the enemy adc to counter it.

KilanostApr 14, 20171 votes

Trust me, let the ADCs play adc even if they suck. Go top lane, play mundo, take the turret then go bully the bot lane OR just keep pushing down top lane until they start sending 3 people at a time to deal with you (because it will easily take that many people if you get even a little ahead).

You can't keep playing bot lane when you have a 20% win rate on your best adc in ranked. You would be better off taking the 50-50 shot at getting an ADC that wins lane. The switch to top secondary will also give you your primary more often (which is good because your mid lane champions have strong win rates). Then play mundo occasionally top when you don't get mid.

If you want to climb, the last thing you should be doing is playing a lane you're obviously weak at out of fear that you'll get someone else in the role who is weak. Because the reality is that the person you get there will be better than the opposing laner 50% of the time. This is especially true if its a role that isn't queued as often as others given your primary is the most queued role in league. You'll just get your primary that much less often as matchmaking will give you your secondary. Lookinga t your match history, the fact that you got your secondary like 3-4x in a row blows my mind. I don't think I've even gotten my secondary 2x in a row.

FrightningApr 14, 20171 votes

Honestly if he's a good mid, maybe he should take jungle as an alternate, the roles have a lot of overlap (macro is important for these roles more than any others during lane because those are the positions that get to roam the most). Learning to be a good jungle will help you learn how to roam effectively from mid lane, and conversely the mid roaming experience will aid developing your 'jungler gank sense' for knowing when and where to gank and anticipating those opportunities in time to be there for them.

KilanostApr 14, 20171 votes

That'd be ok too. Top would still be optimal if he's never played much jungle. Jungle takes time to do well. Also top is queued more often than jungle so he'd get mid more often if he queued top secondary.

GeÌstApr 14, 20171 votes

Yeah I've never been good at jg or if i am i dont know about it. i use to get flamed all the time but about two years ago i tried to learn it some and started having success with udyr but then he got nerfed and i never tried again

FrightningApr 14, 20171 votes

If top is selected more, then he will also get autofilled more would he not?

Also, main reason for jungle suggestion was the overlap between roaming as mid, and gank selection as jungle. Playing mid helps your jungle play a bit, and conversely, playing jungle helps your mid play a bit.

GeÌstApr 14, 20171 votes

I used to play mundo (garen before him) but then people starting taking ignite or just out right beating me in top. tried other tops and only fiora did i have a little success with but the rest i just got destroyed over and over. however you are right about it being one of my weaker/unlucky roles but only like 20-30% of them actually beat their laner and the rest flame the support to the point they dont want to play anymore. bot lane in general is just aggravating.

ModKnightsKemplarApr 13, 20171 votes

Just keep practicing... And understand that it takes time for improvement to show in your rank.

One of the things that I have noticed BIG since I climbed from silver to plat is that you need to understand very well how to win from behind. If your strategy is to get ahead and snowball the game, but you never try to win when you get behind, it is very hard to climb. In that case, you are basically just crossing your fingers every game and hoping your team doesn't feed too hard early.

It sounds like you are aware of the things you need to work on. So just keep doing that.

GeÌstApr 13, 20171 votes

You're right about me not knowing how to play from behind to well and I have looked up videos that were supposed to help with it but they really didn't. As for the issues i know i have in my own play, i recognize they are there but not really sure how to fix them. No videos have really helped me work on fixing the issues.

KarfussApr 13, 20171 votes

The trick is that YOU alone don't fall behind, and use your advantage to prevents others doing so.

While you can be effective when behind, many of the meta champions can take an advantage and run with it, snowballing to victory. Strategies when behind help, but they aren't reliable for turning a 9 turret down game into a win. There is very little you can do when a Zed with 60 more farm and 4 levels ahead presses R under a turret, and that is the point where you accept the outcome and move on.

GeÌstApr 13, 20171 votes

Oh i almost always know when the match is lost but that doesnt make the match any quicker when my teammates wont accept it and surrender

ModKnightsKemplarApr 14, 20171 votes

I rarely hear good players say things like this. It's true, there are some people in high elo who get there by snowballing, and they never give much thought to how to play the game when it's close. But those people aren't good, imo. They are great laners, and pretty garbo at everything else.

Part of this is champion choice, of course. A renekton player is gonna have a much harder time winning from behind than a Vayne player will. But even so, when that renekton player is on that Vayne player's team, rene has to learn to be carried. It's a huge part of the game.

Sometimes, you can't win. Your adc is 0/12 and still feeding. But a good player always asks, "how could we win from here?" no matter how far behind they are. If you're trying to surrender often, I would recommend going a week without ever calling for a surrender vote and see how that changes your perspective. Games are not lost NEARLY as often as people think they are, in my experience.

FrightningApr 14, 20172 votes

Agree 100%

Moreover, if you surrender those games where your team is far behind, how do you expect to ever learn how to play from behind in the first place? If nothing else, it's a chance to practice that very skillset, and, with some luck, maybe a chance to turn that game into a win despite of the dire situation.

Mighty MorteinApr 14, 20171 votes

I feel like the reason why so many games are lost or thrown (at least in a lower elo) is that no one either wants or can close out a game while they're in the lead. People are just hungry for pentas and having flawless KDAs. Sure they get towers, but the longer a team takes to win, the longer the enemy team has to catch up. And then you have that last teamfight around 40+minutes in with 50s death timers and you've lost the game.

FioraWillCarryApr 14, 20171 votes

I've tried that. I've recently realized that winning is not really about you but your team. I've tried everything humanly possible to figure out what I could be doing better. I've done lots of things to improve my own play but alas, they provide little towards the goal of winning. No amount of game knowledge, mechanics or other gimmicks is gonna win you a game where your bot lane feeds 2 kills per minute. Having 200 CS in 20 minutes is not gonna save you from a 14-3 Katerina bursting you instantly.

I'll quote something I said in another thread:-

I was totally completely wrong. What I failed to realize at the time I wrote this was that I had accumulated well over 1000 ranked games when I reached there from Bronze 5 . While yes, the stuff I mentioned above does help, all it does is helps you to NOT be the reason your team loses. The reason you win any match is entirely dependent on your team.

So how did I make it to Silver last season ? The MMR system the match maker uses in League is designed to give each player a roughly 50% win rate. You can overcome this by consistently not being the reason your team loses. That means don't feed or otherwise do anything to throw your games and you will carve out a slightly above 50% win rate. What this also means is that you have to play a lot and I mean a lot of games for this to work in your favor. You'd have to be extremely lucky to climb from Bronze 5 to Silver 5 in less than 100 games. The point is, you as a single player have zero control over whether you win or lose. There are too many random factors that determine the outcome of a game for a single player to overcome. After 3 seasons and thousands of ranked games played I've finally realized that.

I started this new season, season 7 at B5 and peaked at B1 after 900 games. I'm currently on the verge of being demoted to B4. I have no doubt I'd make it to Silver again but I'm guessing that will take about 300 games or so. Last season I made it after 1300 or so ranked games.

So the the short version is this: If you want to climb, try not to be the reason your team loses and play lots of ladder matches. You should climb a tier in about 800 to 1500 ranked games.