You can't possibly look at the community feedback and come to the conclusion that the game is fine

PaffWasTaken··2 votes·1,028 views

An insane amount of feedback coming from different parts of the community supports the idea that the game is only going downhill in terms of appreciating playing the game. There's so much problems currently in the game that people giving feedback on the gameplay can't even agree to what should be fixed first. This same amount of problems has just been going up for years now and the quality of the game is definitely not what it could be if intelligent development was made about it. Even new content like skins, event, new gamemodes etc just bring more and more problems, from balance problems to plain failure to even implement the feature (remember clash and the utter failure who came around it and EVERY features it was supposed to bring along, like the lane banners?).

Plain and simple: the game isn't doing great. At all. Nobody can deny it and those who do would bring faulty arguments to try justifying so. Either Radical and logical actions must be taken or Riot should go 180 degrees on their idealogy on how they should manage the game, if we can call it management.

https://i.imgur.com/4u5M6RR.png[/img]

10 Comments

Hotarµ6 votes

An insane amount of feedback coming from different parts of the community supports the idea that the game is only going downhill in terms of appreciating playing the game.

And where exactly are these sources? The Boards and even Reddit are very, very minuscule sections of the community that don't voice the thoughts of the community at large.

Plain and simple: the game isn't doing great. At all. Nobody can deny it and those who do would bring faulty arguments to try justifying so.

It's a faulty argument to actually want to see some evidence?

PaffWasTaken3 votes

I'm literally showing a graph showing that the raw interest caused by League on google has been going downhill and you are asking for sources?

Several streamers/youtubers are either complaining about balance or simply just quitting the game even if it was their main source of revenue (like Dyrus). This got to the point that streamer showcasing channels just show either big plays from the players or plain complains about balance. some youtube channels are also plainly and only showcasing and discussing about problematics of the game and Riot's poor decision making. You go on Surrender@20, and pretty much every balance change and even skin announcements are received negatively.

Along with Twitch and Youtube, Reddit and the Boards are the biggest portion of community-related feedback you'll ever get. Neglecting every opinions coming from them over the argument that they don't represent enough of the community is non-sense, since if we base ourselves on this argument, noboddy could ever get a viable opinion by the sheer weight of "not representing enough". I'm not saying the minority should lead the decision making. What I'm saying is that the biggest vocal portion of the community isn't in favor of the present decision making and it shows.

"The boards are too salty so their opinions doesn't count" "Reddit is mainly about LCS so it doesn't matter" "Youtube is too wide to show actual, weighty feedback" "Twitch's streamers are too biased to bring good feedback"

"All those platforms together are not enough to show what the community wants"

It isn't a faulty argument to see evidence. In fact, it shouldn't be an argument at all since there IS evidence and, like you just did, you neglect this feedback over several biased other arguments like those I just showcased. You are presently on a platform who is an evidence by itself but you refuse to listen to it because it doesn't represent the community in its totality. The thing is, it does represent a big part of the community through the fact that several other boards from other countries/regions exists, this is literally the point of the iceberg but I can assure you that the hidden part is made of ice just like the tip. Together with the other major platforms representing the game, the totality of the feedback amongst these does represent the vast majority of the community feedback. Refusing to listening to this because its still not 100% of the community is literally just keeping anything from taking action over the fact that someone could be playing without giving feedback, in which case it was his responsibility to do so. A lot of people are complaining. In literally every game development policies, this means that something isn't going right, and neglecting this because some others might not be doing the same thing is just going against the very concept of what community feedback consideration is. even if the vocal would be, lets say, 20% of the playerbase, it is STILL an insanely high amount of unsatisfaction even if its a minority, an unsatisfaction that can be fixed simply by listening to it. Satisfying 20% doesn't mean throwing the other 80% in the trash can, so it isn't an argument at all to wait for a totality of a playerbase to literally express the very exact and same opinion at the same time, on the same platform

Hotarµ4 votes

I'm literally showing a graph showing that the raw interest caused by League on google has been going downhill and you are asking for sources?

One search engine's results page isn't enough evidence to support your claim that the game is dying. Search engine trends change rapidly and violently at random intervals based on a number of different factors. The amount of searches on a website do not reflect the amount of interest in said subject.

Just as an example: OSRS (Old School Runescape) is a game that has been steadily growing since it's release. We started off at about 20-30k concurrent players and we've almost doubled, staying at 55-60k+ active users at almost all times. Now what does the search engine results page look like? Take a look for yourself. A downward or stagnated trend in search results.

Several streamers/youtubers are either complaining about balance or simply just quitting the game even if it was their main source of revenue (like Dyrus). This got to the point that streamer showcasing channels just show either big plays from the players or plain complains about balance. some youtube channels are also plainly and only showcasing and discussing about problematics of the game and Riot's poor decision making. You go on Surrender@20, and pretty much every balance change and even skin announcements are received negatively.

A few notable people quitting isn't enough to support your claim either. The Youtubers and streamers I watch still enjoy the game and play it religiously. So... do we go with your examples or mine? See what I'm getting at?

You need hard, factual, statistical evidence to support your claims. Like this one right here that shows League of Legends is the most watched game on Twitch in 2019.

Along with Twitch and Youtube, Reddit and the Boards are the biggest portion of community-related feedback you'll ever get.

The vocal minority is always the loudest. Go on Reddit right now and tell me how many posts you see made by people who are complaining about the game and saying that the state of it is poor. Do you know why you don't see many? Because the people who are satisfied or enjoy the game don't need to make posts praising it, their needs are being met and as a result they don't need to say anything about it.

This is why I've been saying you need statistical evidence like polls, surveys, playtime graphs, or other undeniable sources. Because if we look at the community as a whole, the majority of people don't voice any negative opinions about the game.

It isn't a faulty argument to see evidence. In fact, it shouldn't be an argument at all since there IS evidence and, like you just did, you neglect this feedback over several biased other arguments like those I just showcased.

You have nothing credible to substantiate your claims.

You're going off of anecdotal and personal experiences supported by one search engine graph.

You are presently on a platform who is an evidence by itself but you refuse to listen to it because it doesn't represent the community in its totality.

Except the Boards are a very, very small section of the community and their concerns may not necessarily resonate with the rest of the community. They also have the problem of having low credibility, it's nigh-impossible to have legitimate discussions about balance because the majority of users here are incapable of civility and looking at statistical evidence.

In other words, that quote you used above about the Boards is true.

Together with the other major platforms representing the game, the totality of the feedback amongst these does represent the vast majority of the community feedback. Refusing to listening to this because its still not 100% of the community is literally just keeping anything from taking action over the fact that someone could be playing without giving feedback, in which case it was his responsibility to do so.

Listen to what I'm saying.

You do not need 100% of the community to voice their opinions for the game for me to take it as real evidence. You need something credible like a source from Riot, lack of playtime on Twitch or Youtube, surveys and polls, or other irrefutable evidence.

When you can get that evidence, then people will actually look at that information and be persuaded. As it stands right now you have **_nothing _**credible and for that reason I personally don't believe the game is dying or at the very least nearing an end anytime soon.

Barkley1 votes

U rite, game is fine?

O.o

Hotarµ3 votes

I'd say based on the evidence that we have (severe lack of complains from the community on Youtube/Boards/Reddit/Twitch, the statistics that show the game is the most watched of 2019 on Twitch, and the amount of positive reception for TFT) the game is at the very least doing okay right now.

All I'm trying to say with my comment is that OP needs more evidence. What he has now isn't anywhere close to enough.

Barkley1 votes

Yeah.... except we're not in a courtroom and people are allowed to have their own opinions :\

Could you imagine how dull the world would be if everyone just based everything off of "facts" all the time? Most advances in technology come from people questioning facts, or having an opinion against the status quo.

You seem like a smart enough person to also realize that using the general populace as a standard for measuring just about anything is a horrible way to do business.

I'd imagine a few entertainment giants right now that probably wouldn't be in business if they just did whatever the community liked, or whatever the community wanted.

I don't think OP is misplaced in stating that he thinks the game is bad. Many people share the same sentiment. And if you're going to fault him for using "one search engine's graph" (which was google, by the way -- fairly reputable company) then you probably shouldn't follow it up with a defense that uses twitch viewership and TFT reception as a crutch.

If we followed that logic, then we could argue that Britney Spears was (at some point) on a comparable level with all-time music legends. People don't know what they like. They like what they're told to like. And people liking something doesn't make it inherently good.

Maybe.... maybe uh.... take it easy with the keyboard crusades, there, killer. Through all your fancy words and your well-formed paragraphs and proper use of forum tools, your arguments are as empty as the ones you're criticizing.

Hotarµ3 votes

Could you imagine how dull the world would be if everyone just based everything off of "facts" all the time?

We are talking about the status of League of Legends. For that discussion to take place, you need hard statistical evidence to support your claims.

This isn't a discussion about someone's favorite movie or what they think about politics, this is a debate with facts and logics. Opinions literally do not have a place here. The game is either dying or it isn't, you thinking that it is has no bearing on the conversation.

If OP thinks the game is dying? That's great and they're welcome to think that! But that doesn't make it true, and definitely not until they can provide a real source for it.

You seem like a smart enough person to also realize that using the general populace as a standard for measuring just about anything is a horrible way to do business.

That's why I included the popular reception to TFT and the statistic about League of Legends' popularity and viewership on Twitch.

I'd imagine a few entertainment giants right now that probably wouldn't be in business if they just did whatever the community liked, or whatever the community wanted.

Okay.

That doesn't really have any bearing on the conversation either. If the game is dying, community input is a good thing to a certain extent.

But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the game and if it is dying, the main focus is not why it is dying (if it were.)

I don't think OP is misplaced in stating that he thinks the game is bad. Many people share the same sentiment. And if you're going to fault him for using "one search engine's graph" (which was google, by the way -- fairly reputable company) then you probably shouldn't follow it up with a defense that uses twitch viewership and TFT reception as a crutch.

One website's search engine results change rapidly and violently over the course of time with each new champion, update, or game mode that gets released. Search engines are an unreliable source of information. Whether you choose to accept that or not doesn't matter, it's a fact.

On top of that, there are multiple different search engines. So while Google is the largest one, it's not even looking at search engines as a whole which makes it even more dismissable.

On top of that, the Twitch statistic I linked is valid factual evidence because it shows that people are tuning it and sticking around the livestreams. At the very least, League of Legends is entertaining to watch which would signal that Riot is profiting and the community (or just people in general) enjoy the state of the game.

If we followed that logic, then we could argue that Britney Spears was (at some point) on a comparable level with all-time music legends. People don't know what they like. They like what they're told to like. And people liking something doesn't make it inherently good.

Maybe.... maybe uh.... take it easy with the keyboard crusades, there, killer. Through all your fancy words and your well-formed paragraphs and proper use of forum tools, your arguments are as empty as the ones you're criticizing.

Oh no, watch out! I type in complete sentences and use words that are more than three syllables, that makes me a keyboard crusader!

You honestly just tried to tell me that the world would be dull if "everything was based off of facts" in response to me just asking for a credible statistic, so maybe you should head back to the drawing board before making your little edgy backhanded comments.

Pika Fox4 votes

Of course you cant.... Because its a biased sample size.

Do you think the vast majority of players who are happy and content are going to go out of their way to go online and talk about it?

preternatural1 votes

too many voices chiming in on balance saying daft things about broken champions.

SSmotzer1 votes

That's just how trends go. WoW's community has been decimated, but it is still one of the most popular MMOs ever, and still towers over many other MMOs.

MOBAs have been doing the same thing for the past 10 years, and their popularity is waning, just as MMOs have. Even changing up the formula now will do nothing to stop it's inevitable decline, just like WoW, but that in no way means WoW or LoL are going to be dead games, their core audience is as strong as ever, with them still reaching the top 10 most watched and talked about games online.

Saying that LoL is in a bad place is like saying Disney is in a bad place because the cgi remakes of classic Disney movies have been getting ok to bad scores while still making billions of dollars.

More from Gameplay

More by PaffWasTaken