Why does graves auto proc black cleaver multiple times

BoilTheOil·Apr 22, 2017·44 votes·4,461 views

I understand that it hits them multiple times but its not fair how he can proc he multiple times off just one auto.

52 Comments

TheHappyReaperzApr 22, 201727 votes

For the same reason Darius's bleed procs BC, and Yorick's ghouls do. It is separate instances of physical damage.

JbelsApr 22, 20174 votes

{quoted}

For the same reason Darius's bleed procs BC, and Yorick's ghouls do. It is separate instances of physical damage.

Except getting hit by more than one does no additional damage. The only things that determines Graves' damage is how much AD he has, and how close he is to you

SpoofghoulApr 22, 201728 votes

but it does additional damage when you hit more then 1 pellet

it's just not 100% of his ad

though he can theoretically hit 4 separate targets for 100% ad

hence why he is so annoying with lifesteal in lane

if only item 3075 were as effective against him as item 3071 is for him

MunchCrunchLunchApr 23, 20172 votes

{quoted}

but it does additional damage when you hit more then 1 pellet

it's just not 100% of his ad

though he can theoretically hit 4 separate targets for 100% ad

hence why he is so annoying with lifesteal in lane

if only were as effective against him as is for him

if each pallet counts as 1 auto then we'd be buying on hit items. that would be ridiculously op

Champion SkinApr 23, 201711 votes

Each pellet does count as 1 auto... IF all of them hit different targets (which often isn't the case and if it does happen those targets are usually minions)

MunchCrunchLunchApr 23, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LUwNpmao,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-23T02:06:08.340+0000)

Each pellet does count as 1 auto... IF all of them hit different targets (which often isn't the case and if it does happen those targets are usually minions)

except thats not true at all tho.

YoungSirJ0eyApr 23, 201713 votes

Except it is. He applies on-hits once to each individual enemy he hits with an auto.

Weasel KenseiApr 23, 20175 votes

New Destiny is Graves passive...

12-Gauge: Each of Graves's basic attacks consumes 1 shell and sprays 4 pellets in a cone. Enemies hit take 70 - 100 (based on level)% AD physical damage plus 「 a third of that damage 」 damage for every pellet that hit them beyond the first. Critical strike icon Critical strikes spray 6 pellets over a 50% wider cone and deal 40% × (1 + bonus critical damage) AD additional physical damage. Graves's basic attacks deals 25 % reduced damage against turrets.

Buckshot: Pellets stop at the first enemy unit or structure they hit, meaning Graves is not guaranteed to hit his primary target. Each pellet will apply on-hit effects but enemies will only be affected by them once per shell. Non-champion units hit by more than one pellet are Airborne icon knocked back.

Double Barrel: Graves' shotgun Destiny holds up to 2 shells. After spending both shells or sitting on one for 4 seconds without attacking, Graves will take 2.079 seconds, reduced by 「 0.4% for every 1% bonus attack speed 」, to Disarm icon reload, with the fastest Disarm icon reload time being 1.22 seconds needing 104% bonus attack speed.

Ugh, yeah, thats all one passive folks... Rito rework nonsense.

Anyway, reading is overpowered... here is the link to the wiki: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Graves

Interesting fact, talking about stuff like you know what your talking about when you really dont is the original definition of noob. Thats you, youre a noob. Question, does your ass get sore from talking out of it; or have you done it enough that it doesnt bother you?

Gregor GysiApr 23, 20171 votes

Interesting fact, talking about stuff like you know what your talking about when you really dont is the original definition of noob. Thats you, youre a noob. Question, does your ass get sore from talking out of it; or have you done it enough that it doesnt bother you?

Kevin stop, Stacy won't go to prom with you if you say mean things like that :(

Weasel KenseiApr 23, 20172 votes

I... your right. People have a right to argue about things they know nothing about. Our president does it, who am I to set people straight.

I will mend my ways, for Stacy.

Acheron16Apr 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

but it does additional damage when you hit more then 1 pellet

it's just not 100% of his ad

though he can theoretically hit 4 separate targets for 100% ad

hence why he is so annoying with lifesteal in lane

if only were as effective against him as is for him

If only Thornmail was useful, period.

That item is 100% trash, situational before it's nerf, useless after it.

YoungSirJ0eyApr 23, 20172 votes

Have you ever even read Graves' passive?

QuickenedBladeApr 22, 201710 votes

i guess item 3075 should do 4-6x damage to graves since they are all individual aa's

TheHappyReaperzApr 23, 20173 votes

They aren't individuals auto's though, they are separate instances of physical damage.

QuickenedBladeApr 23, 20172 votes

if half the bullets hit somebody with thornmail

and the other half of bullets hit another person

how many applications of thornmail would he take?

TheHappyReaperzApr 23, 20172 votes

I have no idea.

iDemaciaApr 23, 20172 votes

if the other person has a thornmail then 2 if not then 1

Champion SkinApr 23, 20174 votes

No Thornmail only does 1x damage to graves... unless he hits 4-6x targets who all have thornmail for some reason?

The first pellet that hits a target (per auto attack) deals full damage 70% - 100% AD and each additional pellet deals 1/3 of the full damage ( 23.3% - 33.3% AD)

The first pellet also applies on-hit effects (and would return damage to graves if the target has a thornmail) the other pellets (on the same target) wouldn't trigger thornmail or Graves on-hit effects

Darkdemon653Apr 23, 20177 votes

{quoted}

i guess Thornmail should do 4-6x damage to graves since they are all individual aa's

Thornmail is an on-hit effect, not an on-physical-damage effect.

Auz the RipperApr 23, 20171 votes

it'd be fun if it were an on-physical-damage effect. talon would immediately murder himself

SalronApr 22, 201713 votes

Ashe's Q also applies 5 stacks What's your point

AirKingNeoApr 22, 20173 votes

Yeah but at least Ashe isn't broken with it. Plus she needs to stack off 4 autos and use the ability.

Graves is literally EVERY SINGLE AUTO ATTACK. No "uptime", no cooldown of 4 autos, no mana cost.

SalronApr 22, 20177 votes

Graves is also on an ammo system and autos much less than most other champions in the game

AirKingNeoApr 22, 20174 votes

Yeah but Graves's autos deal massive damage as a downside for his reload. Graves isn't balanced around Black Cleaver boosted autos, but Ashe isn't broken with it where as Graves is.

TwinkieProApr 23, 20175 votes

many people don't seem to realize that graves autos do between 70% (at level 1) to 200% (at 18) of his AD per auto. Shredding 20% armor in a single shot can massively increase his second.

UnvictusApr 23, 20171 votes

So he autos you once to get multiple BC stacks, then burst you with Q+R. Your point? He doesn't need to auto a ton to kill you.

QuickenedBladeApr 22, 201711 votes

ashe's q that requires stacks and lasts a limited time and has a cooldown != graves aa

kek

TotalJerkApr 23, 20171 votes

That's bullshit, too, though.

dunder killApr 23, 20173 votes

Darius full stacks from 1 auto

statelesskillerApr 23, 20172 votes

but not instantly. it takes about 4 seconds for a single auto attack and the bleed procs to trigger full black cleaver graves just autos once with a q. not the explosion but the initial powder charge and BOOM 5 stacks

YoungSirJ0eyApr 23, 20172 votes

How? How is it not fair? His autos also have extremely short range, can be blocked by minions, and have limited ammo before you need to reload. That's like saying it's unfair Xayah can proc Black Cleaver on multiple targets at one with her empowered autos.

PlanetWarwickApr 23, 20171 votes

xayah needs to press a button graves doesn't

YoungSirJ0eyApr 23, 20172 votes

Right click is a button, you know.

BlåbæretApr 23, 20172 votes

Because BC is and should be a melee item. Rito just needs to get off their high horse and make it melee only.

YoungSirJ0eyApr 23, 20171 votes

No it's not and no it shouldn't be. It was designed to work for both melee and ranged champs.

BlåbæretApr 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No it's not and no it shouldn't be. It was designed to work for both melee and ranged champs.

Wrong.

YoungSirJ0eyApr 23, 20171 votes

Wow, you really proved me wrong. I am fully convinced that you are correct due to your overwhelming use of evidence.

The EcdysiastApr 23, 20171 votes

Probably because every champion the item is actually designed for cannot do this. It's not at all like saying someone can proc it on multiple targets, as Graves can also purchase runaan's for the same effect. And unlike a certain other reloading champion, Graves can shorted the reload time-- but seeing as one shot fully stacks cleaver, he doesn't need to.

YoungSirJ0eyApr 23, 20171 votes

Every champ it's actually designed for? You mean like Darius, who procs it in a single auto, Garen, who procs it extremely quickly, Illaoi, who procs it extremely quickly, MF, who can proc it in just over a second, or Lucian, who can do the same? Every champ BC was designed for has the tools to easily proc it.

ApexInTheCircleApr 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

How? How is it not fair? His autos also have extremely short range, can be blocked by minions, and have limited ammo before you need to reload. That's like saying it's unfair Xayah can proc Black Cleaver on multiple targets at one with her empowered autos.

You're basically saying that it's fair that he can fully stack cleaver with one auto attack....I don't even. Graves is already seeing a massive amount of play due to his safe jungling, decent clear and his ability to fight off invades with relative ease. Graves does NOT need to stack cleaver in one auto.

YoungSirJ0eyApr 25, 20171 votes

Why yes. It is fair. His autos shoot up to 6 pellets that are each their own individual instance of physical damage. It would be far more unfair if he couldn't. Breaking an intentional synergy is a horrible way to balance a champion. If you think it's too much for Graves to have his clear, invading ability, and ability to stack Black Cleaver, one of the first two should be nerfed, not the one that would make no sense.

ApexInTheCircleApr 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Why yes. It is fair. His autos shoot up to 6 pellets that are each their own individual instance of physical damage. It would be far more unfair if he couldn't. Breaking an intentional synergy is a horrible way to balance a champion. If you think it's too much for Graves to have his clear, invading ability, and ability to stack Black Cleaver, one of the first two should be nerfed, not the one that would make no sense.

No other champion in the game has the ability to instantly stack cleaver with one single auto attack or spell the fact that he's able to do this means it may have not been an intentional byproduct. His kit in of itself is already extremely reliable and the fact that he's able to stack it with one auto means he either has to be nerfed to compensate or have the interaction removed. Can't have the cake and eat it too.

YoungSirJ0eyApr 25, 20171 votes

it may not have been an intentional byproduct

It was. Check the patch notes.

Can't have the cake and eat it too.

That's not what that means.

Darius StradaApr 23, 20172 votes

His auto have 3other auto included. Its kinda like a shotgun irl

invisiblecat1Apr 23, 20172 votes

It is just dumb like how darius can fully proc black cleaver in one auto

THE RlVER KlNGApr 23, 20171 votes

Why does Graves

MunchCrunchLunchApr 23, 20171 votes

what the hell?

first off. his pallet does count as an auto if it hits a second target. but not an auto rather an instance of physical damage if it hits the same target so he can't abuse on hit items.

what the hell is the logic of the people on these boards. bronze and silver. brace yourselves. am losing 100 neurons every time I have to explain something but end up getting downvoted. ridiculous

LongHair FoxApr 24, 20171 votes

Black cleaver stacks based on instances of physical damage dealt, therefore graves can abuse black cleacer but not on hit items like wits end.

WolfessApr 23, 20171 votes

Why not make thornmail proc off of physical damage similar to how black cleaver applies its effect on physical damage.

SwiftKitten88Apr 25, 20171 votes

i am curious.. wouldnt 1 shot at 200% damage heal as much as 4 shots at 50%?

New Destiny

12-Gauge: Each of Graves's basic attacks consumes 1 shell and sprays 4 pellets in a cone. Enemies hit take 70 - 100 (based on level)% AD physical damage plus 「 a third of that damage 」 damage for every pellet that hit them beyond the first. Critical strikes spray 6 pellets over a 50% wider cone and deal 40% × (1 + bonus critical damage) AD additional physical damage. Graves's basic attacks deals 25 % reduced damage against turrets.

Buckshot: Pellets stop at the first enemy unit or structure they hit, meaning Graves is not guaranteed to hit his primary target. Each pellet will apply on-hit effects but enemies will only be affected by them once per shell. Non-champion units hit by more than one pellet are knocked back.

Double Barrel: Graves' shotgun Destiny holds up to 2 shells. After spending both shells or sitting on one for 4 seconds without attacking, Graves will take 2.079 seconds, reduced by 「 0.4% for every 1% bonus attack speed 」, to reload, with the fastest reload time being 1.22 seconds needing 104% bonus attack speed.

so if graves crit? at lvl 18 and all 6 bullets hit that would be... 100% +5x33.3% +40 40% × (1 + bonus critical damage) AD

saying it caps at 200% clearly isnt true either..

but i still don't understand how that total would be any different if all that damage was all from 1 shot or from multiple shot hitting the same target.

it should still apply the same life steal... right?