Stop using "just play better" as your argument when people complain about something broken

TrikzterzArma··81 votes·16,993 views

I'm so god damn tired of hearing that stupid shit.

With that logic I guess no champion or item is, or has ever been, op because you know, JUST PLAY BETTER.

I guess we don't need balance-patches each week, everyone should just learn to play better.

Edit. I don't mean to defend people who complains because they lost to a champ once, but people that brings up things that are broken, like Quinn and Duskblade.

Edit 2. Oh the irony when people comment about that I should get better at the game.

117 Comments

Jamaree32 votes

I'm not saying things aren't broken, but there comes a point where play better needs to be the option. If Riot bowed to every heavily QQ post, every champion would be shit.

TrikzterzArma11 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying things aren't broken, but there comes a point where play better needs to be the option. If Riot bowed to every heavily QQ post, every champion would be shit.

Yeah I don't mean those who are like "Omgg lissandra broken nerf". But things that clearly are broken, like Quinn, Electrocute, and so on

Jamaree15 votes

{quoted}

Yeah I don't mean those who are like "Omgg lissandra broken nerf". But things that clearly are broken, like Quinn, Electrocute, and so on

Even though Quinn sat unplayed and considered shit for multiple years?

TrikzterzArma19 votes

{quoted}

Even though Quinn sat unplayed and considered shit for multiple years?

What? Quinn has the highest winrate in the game atm. Why bring up what she was before?

Jamaree12 votes

{quoted}

What? Quinn has the highest winrate in the game atm. Why bring up what she was before?

Because she wasn't considered broken until recently once she finally started getting noticed, fun fact though, Quinn has sat with one of the highest if not highest win rate for the longest time before this as well.

TrikzterzArma8 votes

{quoted}

Because she wasn't considered broken until recently once she finally started getting noticed, fun fact though, Quinn has sat with one of the highest if not highest win rate for the longest time before this as well.

But does it matter? She is broken right now and needs nerfs, that's the only thing that matters.

Ginger9763 votes

{quoted}

But does it matter? She is broken right now and needs nerfs, that's the only thing that matters.

What about her is broken?

Reset2138 votes

Exactly, I'm a Quinn main, and her win rate has always been high, but people said she wasn't a true ADC or couldn't win top against a bruiser. I ignored it and kept using her in all roles. Guess people started to catch up that she was actually good and want to complain now.

Vhan87658 votes

That's literally the story of League throughout any point of its history.

Everyone gets so focused in the META that they completely expel the idea that nonmeta champions are still viable, if not even just straight good.

"Oh, they're not the best pick though. If you're not picking the best pick, you're trolling!"

Shows what metaslaves know now that they're all getting stomped by Quinn mains and are just crying cause that nonmeta champion just destroyed the happy little dreamworld they lived in.

If Quinn ends up nerfed cause of people complaining like children, that's when you know the game is actually going downhill.

Cowseed2 votes

literally the story of League throughout any point of its history

If Quinn ends up nerfed cause of people complaining like children, that's when you know the game is actually going downhill

Yeah the game has being going downhill forever then. Because it's usually just meta slaves using champs a lot that gets them nerfed. I still remember the time when there was a Lee Sin post EVERY.... FRIGGIN... DAY...

People were literally bitching because champs were played often, not because the win often. Which is one reason I never actually bother with meta shit. I just play what I can and never tell people that the champs I play are strong or anything. Last thing I want is sheep ruining my champ because they're looking for cheap wins.

SUPERMOVAA6 votes

doesnt matter broken is broken

Beatrice falls5 votes

I mean, how can you "outplay" a Zed aside of rushing item 3157 because even if he misses everything at level 6, he can just hit one AA + E + ignite after his undodgeable R and you're dead

Jamaree2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beatrice falls,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LPw5hn7c,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-07-26T11:57:32.835+0000)

I mean, how can you "outplay" a Zed aside of rushing item 3157 because even if he misses everything at level 6, he can just hit one AA + E + ignite after his undodgeable R and you're dead

I don't believe that is true.

XinCrin3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beatrice falls,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LPw5hn7c,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-07-26T11:57:32.835+0000)

I mean, how can you "outplay" a Zed aside of rushing item 3157 because even if he misses everything at level 6, he can just hit one AA + E + ignite after his undodgeable R and you're dead

No he can't. Stop exaggerating. Unless you were below half health and he gets his passive off with that aa, he cannot kill you with just that.

Summonah123692 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beatrice falls,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LPw5hn7c,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-07-26T11:57:32.835+0000)

I mean, how can you "outplay" a Zed aside of rushing item 3157 because even if he misses everything at level 6, he can just hit one AA + E + ignite after his undodgeable R and you're dead

Actually I feel like I'm dead when I escape but I'm still hearing that heartbeat sound and all my shit is on cooldown. So I'm screwed.

Beatrice falls1 votes

A fact not everyone knows about Zed, if there's a shuriken over your head after he finishes his combo, you're dead, if there isn't, you're alive

ImGodlyatYasuo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beatrice falls,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LPw5hn7c,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-07-26T11:57:32.835+0000)

I mean, how can you "outplay" a Zed aside of rushing item 3157 because even if he misses everything at level 6, he can just hit one AA + E + ignite after his undodgeable R and you're dead

News flash for ya you can dodge zed ult if you time it right with flash btw just saying.

CloudedLogic2 votes

The thing is "play better" isn't constructive at all (and almost always seen as insulting). If you gave actual advice on how to counter a situation it would be one thing, but nah "play better." doesn't help the situation. You might as well just say I disagree and move on.

Ayzev2 votes

{quoted}

every champion would be shit.

Isn't that sorta kinda what people have been asking for since preseason with all the "damage is too high" and "we need Morello"?

Jamaree4 votes

{quoted}

Isn't that sorta kinda what people have been asking for since preseason with all the "damage is too high" and "we need Morello"?

I ALWAYS love the "We need Morello" argument, because any vet of these forums can tell you the amount of hate Ghostcrawler gets now, Morello basically got. When he was head, people said he didn't know what he was doing too.

Leetri3 votes

Rose tinted glasses are a powerful thing. If you had good enough memory you can take basically anything people complain about now and point to when people complained about the polar opposite and begged for what we have now. It's obviously not the same people complaining, but both sides expect Riot to do exactly what they want when it's impossible to cater to both.

Jamaree2 votes

{quoted}

Rose tinted glasses are a powerful thing. If you had good enough memory you can take basically anything people complain about now and point to when people complained about the polar opposite and begged for what we have now. It's obviously not the same people complaining, but both sides expect Riot to do exactly what they want when it's impossible to cater to both.

Exactly, impossible to cater to everyone as well.

Pika Fox5 votes

Honestly, the response is generally valid. Yasuo thread #9639612 can just be summarized as "l2p" at this point.

Also, quinn is likely a bit strong atm (she still needs a bit of work, but shes also been garbage for years so im fine with her being good) but duskblade isnt "broken".

TrikzterzArma1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LPw5hn7c,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-07-26T15:06:48.546+0000)

Honestly, the response is generally valid. Yasuo thread #9639612 can just be summarized as "l2p" at this point.

Also, quinn is likely a bit strong atm (she still needs a bit of work, but shes also been garbage for years so im fine with her being good) but duskblade isnt "broken".

Duskblade is broken.

  1. Gives way too much extra damage in a burst.
  2. Gives an extra trinket that allows you to oneshot wards (as a melee).
  3. Lethality (hello?)
  4. Lets you know if the enemies have warded a bush (if the bonus damage on your next auto doesn't trigger, it's warded).
Pika Fox3 votes

So does literally any other AD item in the game. It gives a small bit of scaling damage on 1 auto. This isnt any different than other forms of burst on hit.

Yeah, as an assassin it helps clear wards, something they need to do their job. Ward meta has always been shit, and im saying this as a support main. Clearing a ward is fine.

Lethality is far weaker than arpen. Not sure what your complaint is. 15 lethality is pretty much just 7 arpen.

And? Oh no, you can tell they warded the bush while youre trying to gank. Just incase them backing off to not get collapsed on wasnt enough of a giveaway.

Hammermancer3 votes

careful, they're gonna put you on the pyre for daring to utter the words "Duskblade isn't broken"

Breezey Boy5 votes

I love how all the assholes in the comments are just posting "get better" only with different phrases.

Mizaya1 votes

The point is saying "get better" is only needed when the post in question is someone QQing rather than simply stating their opinion on something being broken. You'll find plenty of posts here, thankfully, that express opinions in a constructive manner, but unfortunately also many that do not and can be considered "QQ posts".

SUPERMOVAA2 votes

what is it u consider broken

Zetahertz6 votes

Garen

SUPERMOVAA1 votes

[deleted]

TrikzterzArma13 votes

{quoted}

well ur plat 3 eune what would you know about whats broken

With all due respect, your rank does not always prove how good/bad you are.

Summonah1236910 votes

{quoted}

what is it u consider broken

Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed also Yasuo's stupid shield.

xZabaksx5 votes

Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Also, does anyone know a mage that hard counters zed?

BLIGHTBRINGER4 votes

So far I haven't found such a mage, even though people say that (Lissandra, and Anivia) shuts him down. That might be true, but it's quite easy for Zed players to play around and be taken down easily due to his...

  • Safe laning phase
  • Poke
  • In every stage of the game having the best burst (Early, Mid, Late)
  • Able to waveclear better than a lot of mages
EkyonKun2 votes

Also the fact he can walk down bot lane anytime his ults up as long as theres one squishy down there. REQ Auto just obliterates anyone without health or armor. Doesn't matter if they're under tower, just go for it and you'll be fine.

ValiantKiller6 votes

{quoted}

Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Also, does anyone know a mage that hard counters zed?

Annie and Malzahar used to counter him hard but thanks to mana change and zed buffs they hardly able to counter him.

3TWarrior2 votes

Anivia more of a soft counter, but her passive can keep him from getting a free kill Bard : (try him and see where it goes. He has stasis built into his kit and healing as well. He's also good at roaming) Chogath : the tank among tanks except for Sion. You can silence zed or time your crowd control with his ult. If you keep the bush warded, it will be difficult for him to surprise kill you, though you won't really counter him either Lissandra : it's less about her kit and more about the ease of her Q damage and less reliance on mana so she can build defensive items Morgana : counter wave clear with wave clear and when built bulky, morgana is tough, not to mention practically immune to magic damage. Focus more on waveclearing and being more useful to the team though. I doubt zed would want his team to lose first tower advantage Vladimir vladimir can out-sustain anyone not named mundo and can go untargetable in addition to having decent wave clear. If zed roams, warn and use your wave clear to your advantage Zilean : quite possible the best wave-clear in the game and an ultimate that is a kill-denial on a fairly short cooldown. There is no better mage to deal with a zed and your roams are even better than his are

#says quite a bit though when there are only 7 mages that have the bare minimum required to deal with a zed

TrikzterzArma4 votes

{quoted}

Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed Zed also Yasuo's stupid shield.

I completely agree. Zed is my permaban

El Dentistador2 votes

Yasuo's shield should have a hit counter or damage limit.

Summonah123691 votes

[{quoted}](name=El Dentistador,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LPw5hn7c,comment-id=000100010002,timestamp=2018-07-27T02:49:43.231+0000)

Yasuo's shield should have a hit counter or damage limit.

Yeah even with my 350 ap or something the javelin will do 0 damage due to his shield.

El Dentistador2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah even with my 350 ap or something the javelin will do 0 damage due to his shield.

Wouldn't be unreasonable to give it a limit considering yas has plenty of damage, mobility, and hard aoe CC in his kit.

Automated Riven2 votes

There are things that are broken in the game, however, most things that get complained about on the boards are not those.

Melledoneus2 votes

Just play better.

Beta bronzies don't even know how to dodge ignite pffffffft

Just duck when Zed throws his shurikens at you bruh

TrikzterzArma1 votes

{quoted}

Just play better.

Beta bronzies don't even know how to dodge ignite pffffffft

Just duck when Zed throws his shurikens at you bruh

U think Vlad is op? Wtf nuub, just dodge his Q

Hammermancer1 votes

{quoted}

I'm so god damn tired of hearing that stupid shit.

With that logic I guess no champion or item is, or has ever been, op because you know, JUST PLAY BETTER.

I guess we don't need balance-patches each week, everyone should just learn to play better.

Edit. I don't mean to defend people who complains because they lost to a champ once, but people that brings up things that are broken, like Quinn and Duskblade.

Not broken, actually, plenty of defensive items, it's a strategy game. You gotta use your brain, don't use the same strat every game, and yeah

broken is when you have a champion that can't take damage, but can 1shot you regardless of itemization

Not broken is a champion who can be 1shot, 1shotting you, because you didn't itemize properly or play correctly

TrikzterzArma7 votes

[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LPw5hn7c,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-07-26T15:12:42.769+0000)

Not broken, actually, plenty of defensive items, it's a strategy game. You gotta use your brain, don't use the same strat every game, and yeah

broken is when you have a champion that can't take damage, but can 1shot you regardless of itemization

Not broken is a champion who can be 1shot, 1shotting you, because you didn't itemize properly or play correctly

Are you REALLY gonna comment on my thread about not using "get better" as an argument, and tell me to use my brain? Isn't that exactly the same thing but in other words?

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

"Broken" has nothing to do with being able to one-shot you without taking damage. Where the flying fuck did that idea come from?

Mundo after his R buffs was objectively broken, yet he didn't one-shot you.

And just because a champion can be one-shot doesn't mean you have a realistic chance of doing it before he gets to one-shot you. Wukong very much has this issue right now - You're usually incapable of one-shotting him before he one-shots you.

Hammermancer1 votes

that's blatently false

you can actually 1shot a wukong before he 1shots you

now if you all made an argument about how toxic the 1shot meta is in general that's fine. but you're crying about one subset of the entire 1shot meta

I think everything should honestly just take twice as much time to kill, across the board, except tanks.. make them like 1.5x as hard to kill

the issue with that is you'd have to compensate these linear kits

99% of the things people have justified complaints about all have one thing in common, Linear easy to pull off kits that do massive damage

adcs, mages, assassins, hell even the tanks when they're strong

This is why I can't get behind the bruiser hate, 99% of bruisers have skills that actually require some sort of... skill and I don't just mean "Manage your mana and land a skillshot" because you should be able to land your linear skillshots regardless

When ap malphite is strong, what happens? He's still tanky, he 1shots you

when darius is strong what happens? He doesn't 1shot you, and he has to catch you, use cancels, land a really weird skill, and then dunk, without the dunk he's probably dead, because he's so fucking kitable it's not even funny.

Irelia? She's only strong against non skill based champions. She's great against adcs because all adcs have to learn is how to orb, and their single build that they take every game. Irelia's hardest matchups are either things so braindead they just absorb her regardless of her level of skill, or things that also have high skill caps such as yasuo or Camille.

people hate the skill based champions because they play in a non-competitive way on easy champs that do nothing but skill check and then they cry when someone is actually good enough to beat them or a champion has the capacity to override skill checks

I have zero issues with the following champions Bard Camille Darius Ekko Elise Evelynn (mind games are skill)Fiora Fizz Galio Gragas Graves Heimerdinger Irelia Jax Jayce Kalista Kassadin Katarina Kayn Khazix Kindred Kled Leblanc LeeSin Nautilus Nidalee Orianna Pyke Renekton RekSai Rengar Riven Shaco Shen Singed Taric Thresh Vi Velkoz MonkeyKing XinZhao Yasuo Zed

every one of these champions either has high mechanical complexity or high macro complexity, they all have the capacity to outplay, as well as be outplayed at a reasonable level within their own grouping, these champions even when strong can go toe to toe with eachother against other ones in this grouping even when weakened or behind

there are many middle of the road champions that are fine, but virtually every single line stun mage, tank, and adc is toxic and has low skill ceiling, with only a few exceptions, the champions don't interact with dueling, or with outplays, they simply hit their magic kill buttons, landing one equaling winning a fight

the listed champions again, all have to use complex mechanics to handle adverse situations, they can handle these situations thanks to these mechanics but they are reliant on actually pulling them off, as opposed to the majority of adcs who right click to win, the majority of mages who have to land a low cooldown hard crowd control once to win, and the majority of tanks who walk at you

they can all suck it, i'm a fan of the fighter sub category because it's healthy within it's own vacuum and is healthier than any other type within their own vacuums specifically due to less reliance on exact itemization and more reliance on mechanical complexity and actual mind games

the second best are the hard macro types, like your shacos, who win by raw guile and presence. arguments could be made for ziggs and heimerdinger but they need minor reworks to bring them up to snuff. other macro champs like tryn and yorick have the same issues as tanks and adcs in which they use very little skill or complexity to overcome high skill cap champions, nobody should just walk at you and instawin by closing the gap. And the fault of design is in the champions that do this with little skill, as well as the champions who can't react with skill because they're nothing more than attack speed buffs or targeted direct damage and nukes that have varying effects.

An example is how people complain about yasuo shutting down carries, but they neglect to mention that it's an issue of yasuo having the tools he needs to function fighting champions who don't have the tools they need to function, this game is not made better by nerfing skill champs, but is rather made worse. I'd rather see every single champion reworked into a high skill cap champ, beginner players would be fine because a proper mmr will place them with others on their level of bad outplays

HungryAngry2SPP1 votes

[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LPw5hn7c,comment-id=000900010000,timestamp=2018-07-26T17:35:36.718+0000)

I have zero issues with the following champions Bard Camille Darius Ekko Elise Evelynn (mind games are skill)Fiora Fizz Galio Gragas Graves Heimerdinger Irelia Jax Jayce Kalista Kassadin Katarina Kayn Khazix Kindred Kled Leblanc LeeSin Nautilus Nidalee Orianna Pyke Renekton RekSai Rengar Riven Shaco Shen Singed Taric Thresh Vi Velkoz MonkeyKing XinZhao Yasuo Zed

every one of these champions either has high mechanical complexity or high macro complexity, they all have the capacity to outplay,

MonkeyKing XinZhao (Full AD assasin builds) : " Me Go In. Me Smash Some Buttons. Me Get Kill. Me Is Gud At Game" And also Nautilus... With these 3 champs you fucked up your list

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