That feeling when Kindred's buffs get reverted.

Astôlfo·Sep 10, 2016·7 votes·2,319 views

Thanks Riot.

No, the buffs were not aimed towards the right spots in the first place. Yes, they were still buffs that would have helped SOMEWHAT.

24 Comments

Buff Jax pleaseSep 10, 20162 votes

No one wants to see this easy mode champion being viable. I understand why they reverted these buffs.

AstôlfoSep 10, 20163 votes

PFFFFFT

RiotRiot SotereSep 11, 201612 votes

I think Kindred has existed in a state that they were relatively easy to succeed with. Mind you, never in my hands. It took the type of aggression and mechanical play I lack. But, quite a bit of power has been trimmed out, and Kindred doesn't just win every early duel anymore, which seems appropriate.

The Kindred on Live nowadays I think is quite the opposite of easy mode. They fulfill a role your team often doesn't want out of the jungle, requires you to hunt down marks and call out targets, and needs to survive a somewhat difficult early game.

While we've been considering giving her slight buffs in the last couple of patches, we've opted to hold off because she is incredibly successful in the hands of an experienced player. So much so that it would be near irresponsible to give her flat-out buffs, especially given that a lot of her most popular competition has been toned down recently.

Overlord ForteSep 11, 201612 votes

They

yes ...

They

yes ... keep going

she

Kindred They forgot about you again, dear Wolf.

DisulfiramSep 11, 20161 votes

Eh, kine will never truly understand kindred...

RiotRiot SotereSep 11, 20166 votes

I was close. :(

Chromatic EagleSep 11, 20162 votes

[deleted]

paisySep 11, 20161 votes

Please reevaluate your comment

ChlululuSep 11, 20165 votes

y do u have to be that person omg

TeCoolMageSep 11, 20161 votes

I switch around their pronouns constantly to trigger people who insist he's a character capable of being offended by my comments (no, legit, someone once got the downvote brigade on me for using the wrong pronoun on a comment that wasn't even about Kindred's gender, then used a real life example to try and make me feel bad about it) even though she uses "they" in their quotes when marking someone regardless of the marked champion's gender.

Tbh I think he's a male because lamb is nowhere as cool as Wolf, she literally just throws little glowing sticks at the enemy and makes the ground around them glowy while wolf doesn't have legs yet he does all the hard work.

Darkslayer85Sep 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LMdfGJHd,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2016-09-11T05:03:10.053+0000)

I think Kindred has existed in a state that they were relatively easy to succeed with. Mind you, never in my hands. It took the type of aggression and mechanical play I lack. But, quite a bit of power has been trimmed out, and Kindred doesn't just win every early duel anymore, which seems appropriate.

Agreed.

The Kindred on Live nowadays I think is quite the opposite of easy mode. They fulfill a role your team often doesn't want out of the jungle, requires you to hunt down marks and call out targets, and needs to survive a somewhat difficult early game.

Their early game is tough, I also agree.

While we've been considering giving her slight buffs in the last couple of patches, we've opted to hold off because she is incredibly successful in the hands of an experienced player. So much so that it would be near irresponsible to give her flat-out buffs, especially given that a lot of her most popular competition has been toned down recently.

Their current state is fine, and they don't need buffs. I still agree. However something needs to be done about allies refusing to aid Kindred in their search for marks.

Shadow HazardSep 11, 20161 votes

Hope your looking at this riot, you made kindred directly reliant of not only having a competent team but a team that needs to play around your gimmick. I know that riot has said in the past that they don't want anymore champions like that yet effectively create that mini game for everyone on the same side as kindred but lean that stacks in the favor of the enemy team to win the mini game.

ModWulf HelhammerSep 10, 20161 votes

I personally think it would help a lot to give them the heal back, but only have it affect champions. This means they still need to kite well in the jungle, as Riot intended, but you get the extra strength you need to take marks from the enemy (Plus would make Kindred mid work again!). Maybe give a slight buff to base MS or armor to help clear the jungle a little bit

AstôlfoSep 10, 20162 votes

Some slight base stats increase (MS/Armor in particular) and then the heal would help.

miyazakioniceOct 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Some slight base stats increase (MS/Armor in particular) and then the heal would help.

some slight stop sucking at this game would definately help

MiraweaveSep 10, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I personally think it would help a lot to give them the heal back, but only have it affect champions. This means they still need to kite well in the jungle, as Riot intended, but you get the extra strength you need to take marks from the enemy (Plus would make Kindred mid work again!). Maybe give a slight buff to base MS or armor to help clear the jungle a little bit

That's literally the opposite of why they removed it. It was intended to help them clear the jungle but ended up providing too much duelling power.

leopard nidáleeSep 11, 20161 votes

Why not just let Kindred heal off of their marks only? That way, they don't always have full health in the jungle and won't have insane dueling power, it WILL make their mark-invades safer, making them less team-reliant. It also puts more pressure on marking the correct target because the player will have to take the heal they could get into consideration when invading and ganking.

I definitely think a buff to their early game stats wouldn't be uncalled for, or perhaps something as simple as preventing it from marking inside the enemy jungle as the first mark. For me, games where the scuttlecrab is marked first end up a lot better than ones where raptors are the first mark.

AstôlfoSep 13, 20161 votes

Um no, because then they're still as garbage as ever, and by the time they get to said Hunt while running around, they'd have full stacks and get a minor heal. And then proceed to die to the trap there waiting for them.

xWatersSep 10, 20161 votes

I've seen that AD growth from 1.7 to 2.5 before, they actually took it away again?

AstôlfoSep 10, 20161 votes

Yep.

CalabokSep 10, 20161 votes

joy?

Chess1Sep 10, 20161 votes

U shud try bruiser kindred its pretty damn good botrk frozen mallet myb triforce(expensive tho) steraks gage and a ga

ABlueQuakerSep 11, 20161 votes

Not gonna lie, Seasons 2-4 I bluntly labelled Marksmen played outside of Bot Lane as "a gimmick" and something that should be easily punishable by the opposition. Since mid-season 5, Riot has done the opposite of what I thought they'd ever do and promote what I deem to be unhealthy gameplay by designing Marksmen to be played Top and Jungle. I think it's something Riot needs to actively work toward removing from the game. Graves Top and Jungle is incredibly unhealthy for the game, as was Nidalee and Kindred jungle & Quinn Top and Jungle before Riot realised how unhealthy their play patters were and deliberately gimped them so that they'd disappear from competitive.

6-7 Preseason needs to address non-Bot Lane Marksmen and either turn them into mid lane AD Casters (a la Jayce) or ADC-Support Bot Lane Marksmen.

TormentulaSep 13, 20161 votes

I still feel like they should get something to aid. Yes experienced kindreds preform well and still get fed or carry, but how many experienced kindreds do you see anymore? Its like nerfing skarner just because he's in a good state right now despite a playrate thats still significantly low.

I personally gave up playing kindred. The risk of locking in as her for the end game reward I feel isn't nearly enough to give me a reason to pick them over other junglers.

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LMdfGJHd,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2016-09-11T05:03:10.053+0000) especially given that a lot of her most popular competition has been toned down recently.

Like who tho? Gragas and Rek'sai are the only junglers being hurt, as well as kog'maw, and one of them is an LCS knockup bot barely affecting soloq.

Right now the meta junglers are, going by current NA winrates and pickrates in plat and above: Elise Nidalee Amumu Khazix Zac Graves LeeSin Fiddlesticks Kayle . Where is gragas and rek'sai in that list? Are we nerfing all of these just for kindred's sake?

http://na.op.gg/champion/statistics

I still don't feel nunu and skarner are exactly "meta" but you could include them as well.

I could have 15+ marks and at some point in the game, still feel like I fell off and can't do anything in grouped fights. I get Kindred is very %HP damage based in her builds and the marks, but unless I get a phantom dancer I can't say 15 marks makes me 1v1 targets like a caught out 0/5 full build caitlyn without dying to her.