So with Spell Vamp removal, what does that mean for Akali/Morgana passive?

l Helios l·Apr 7, 2016·5 votes·22,163 views

Both passives are termed as spell vamp, but the term is removed from items now. Does that mean the term will be removed from the passives?

46 Comments

GaleWinUnleashedApr 7, 20165 votes

No change there. It's the existence of spell vamp items that causes the problem, not the mechanic itself.

Ulquiorra995Apr 7, 20164 votes

{quoted}

No change there. It's the existence of Vladimir that causes the problem, not the mechanic itself.

Fixed.

GaleWinUnleashedApr 7, 20162 votes

But now Vladimir (and every other champion that ever bought spell vamp) can be balanced around their own kit without having to factor in the sustain that comes with an early Revolver purchase.

Chaos689Apr 8, 20161 votes

Vlad "can be balanced" Mmmmm... nah

Dragow101Apr 11, 20162 votes

Vlad is balanced he's not even that strong

Chaos689Apr 13, 20161 votes

BRO: All of his abilities ost Hp - it 's basically free later. His passive makes you tanky for free. is q is a ~3 second cs medium-ranged decent damage and free heal. His w is an invluln which can be used rooted/etc. IT ALSO DAMAGES His e is nothing special. His ult is jsut some good snergy and a nice ability. The problems are Q, W, and passive.

WoonStruckApr 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

BRO: All of his abilities ost Hp - it 's basically free later. His passive makes you tanky for free. is q is a ~3 second cs medium-ranged decent damage and free heal. His w is an invluln which can be used rooted/etc. IT ALSO DAMAGES His e is nothing special. His ult is jsut some good snergy and a nice ability. The problems are Q, W, and passive.

Almost listed factors about every manaless champion ever. GJ there.

Vlad having no mobility or CC balances the fact that he has his W, and Q isn't OP by itself. It just triggers people that don't know to all-in him whenever you can. Your CDs>his CDs until level 7+, then your damage>his damage until 11+.

Chaos689Apr 17, 20161 votes

"NO CC" Rylai's Ctrystal Scepter - Works for both sides of passive AND gives CC. Mobility is W And no, I didn't list "factors" I listed one thing: no costs.

MisterjablezApr 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No change there. It's the existence of spell vamp items that causes the problem, not the mechanic itself.

How does sustain for magic damage champs cause a problem, though? Isn't the whole purpose of spellvamp so that ADCs and other high damage physical damage champs aren't the only ones with sustain (not counting the very small list that have built in spellvamp)?

GaleWinUnleashedApr 10, 20162 votes

It's the fact that since it's there, it has to be taken into account when balancing. Akali in particular has a garbage laning phase simply because sustain exists for only 1200 gold. Without the revolver to purchase anymore, she can get her early game buffed to more reasonable levels.

Also, the general idea is that marksmen are supposed to have high dps and be weak to burst, correct? Life steal ensures that they aren't ALSO weak to lower-level dps. They demand focus-fire because if you don't eliminate them completely, they can come back and keep shredding your team.

Burst mages are supposed to be the counter to marksmen, and to complete the triangle, tanks/bruisers should counter mages. But they can't do that if mages are capable of sustaining through their damage output. So as a general rule burst mages shouldn't have access to consistent health sustain.

MisterjablezApr 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's the fact that since it's there, it has to be taken into account when balancing. Akali in particular has a garbage laning phase simply because sustain exists for only 1200 gold. Without the revolver to purchase anymore, she can get her early game buffed to more reasonable levels.

Also, the general idea is that marksmen are supposed to have high dps and be weak to burst, correct? Life steal ensures that they aren't ALSO weak to lower-level dps. They demand focus-fire because if you don't eliminate them completely, they can come back and keep shredding your team.

Burst mages are supposed to be the counter to marksmen, and to complete the triangle, tanks/bruisers should counter mages. But they can't do that if mages are capable of sustaining through their damage output. So as a general rule burst mages shouldn't have access to consistent health sustain.

I see what you're saying here and I'd have to say I agree, but that ends up kicking sustained damage mages like Karthus, Azir and Malzahar into a tough situation where they can't burst down ADCs but they're not quite tanky enough to take the damage or else build full tank and be not much more than a meat shield. Their strength lies in doing damage en masse to the enemy team for a large amount of damage spread out and sustain allows them to do this more effectively without sacrificing their damage (which is their purpose in this particular argument). Granted, Malzahar has enough CC in his kit that he'd work out fine full tank but Karthus only has a slow/mr debuff and Azir only has his ultimate which while it is an amazing disengage or outplay tool that's all he has without items like rylai's. I (and likely other players) don't often build spellvamp on these champions, but oftentimes when a game starts to stretch out and find myself not lasting long enough in fights on my full build it usually helped to grab a Will of the Ancients to keep the pain coming, even if it was just to heal up on minions and jungle creeps between fights

GaleWinUnleashedApr 11, 20161 votes

It's certainly not a perfect solution by any means, but it does at least appear to be the most logical one at this point in time. Karthus is clearly outdated, but Riot is gonna have one heck of a time reworking him without wrecking his identity. He's almost too iconic to touch.

MisterjablezApr 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's certainly not a perfect solution by any means, but it does at least appear to be the most logical one at this point in time. Karthus is clearly outdated, but Riot is gonna have one heck of a time reworking him without wrecking his identity. He's almost too iconic to touch.

Personally I feel like he's fine as is, he just has a bit of a learning curve but he's a monster in the right hands. The only thing I could think he really needs is maybe some more tank stats since his E gives him decent mana sustain

Chaos689Apr 17, 20161 votes

Maybe make his q a BIT FASTER TO DETONATE HUH MAYBE JSUT MAYBE FKIN CHO'GATH WALKING PAST THE MWHILE I HAVE RYLAIS?

137434Apr 7, 20164 votes

They just claimed they are removing "Spell Vamp from the item system....Runes and Keystone choices will also retain the ability to acquire Spell Vamp."

There will still be Spell Vamp in the game, you just can't buy it through items. No need to remove the term from the passives or change the passives.

theonlyaustinApr 7, 20161 votes

item 3152 Vladimir

137434Apr 7, 20161 votes

WOTA is being removed and Vlad is one of the champions getting a rework.

KenneXPApr 7, 20164 votes

I freaked out finding out that theyre removing spell vamp. As an akali main i dont want it to be changed at all. And for sure i dont want them to change akali's gameplay style. Its not horrible but it is going to be struggle. #prayforspellvamp

GaleWinUnleashedApr 11, 20161 votes

#prayforakalibuffs

Chaos689Apr 13, 20161 votes

Akali... buffs? Excuse me, sir, but I just had an akali go 20/3/11. THey said "first time akali" "Buffs"

Stars ShaperApr 7, 20162 votes

Akali won't change much since champion passives won't be changed and item 3146 will keep its heal (total vamp) passive.

SpoofghoulApr 7, 20161 votes

but thats niether lifesteal nor spellvamp

its omnivamp

Stars ShaperApr 7, 20161 votes

still it won't change anything for her, she will still build it and feel no differences.

GaleWinUnleashedApr 7, 20162 votes

She'll feel the difference early without the sustain from Revolver.

However...

Akali was previously trapped by the existence of sustain for 1200 gold. Her laning phase had to be garbage because of it. Now there's room for some buffs.

Billy VoHagenApr 7, 20162 votes

Spell Vamp still exists, it has just been taken off items. They said it still exists in masteries and runes.

La BarbotteApr 7, 20161 votes

i think they stated it would only dissapear from itemization

theonlyaustinApr 7, 20161 votes

Can you give a link to them saying this?

SnugglePuggle94Apr 7, 20161 votes

surrenderat20.net

theonlyaustinApr 7, 20161 votes

Thank you. I was not aware of such a big mid season change coming

SnugglePuggle94Apr 7, 20161 votes

No problem. These are still experimental changes, so nothing is set in stone but Riot seems like they like these changes even though the whole AP player base doesn't (besides the support mains).

I Dont Get GotApr 10, 20161 votes

thats becaust the "ap player base" is people who dont understand most ap kits, and dont realize you dont need 800 AP to kill things.

WoonStruckApr 7, 20161 votes

Its still there. It just won't be an itemized stat anymore because Hextech Revolver in its former concept destroyed their ability to lane due to the benefits it offered on them being too good to pass up.

Overall, itemized spellvamp's removal is a good direction for the game.

And I'm saying that as a Vlad main.

DarkvaineApr 7, 20161 votes

can you post the exact link? i just went through the last two patches and don't see anything about it. thanks

l Helios lApr 7, 20161 votes

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/79cto3EB-planned-69-mana-x-mp5-x-ap-x-mr-item-pass

Ayame IsakiApr 7, 20161 votes

The bigger problem is that does this change mean for Akali:

Hextech Revolver Combine Cost: 340 --> 230 Total Cost: 1200 --> 1100 Ability Power unchanged Spell Vamp removed New Passive - Magic Bolt: Your basic attacks deal 75 - 150 magic damage on hit. (30 second cooldown, shared with other Hextech items).

Revolver has always been a item that encourages favorable trading in lane. This keeps some of that aspect in a far more aggressive manner that's hopefully a bit more ubiquitously useful than checking to see if you can sustain off a resourceless single target spell.

Akali's laning phase is pretty bad until she gets this item so she can sustain a little bit. Removing early access to sustain will further reduce her ability to trade early which will extend her weak laning phase even longer. This in turn will further delay the acquisition of item 3146 .

Are they planning on buffing Akali's early game to compensate? I know this borders on heresy, but really, what else is there to do in this case? I'm open to suggestions!

l Helios lApr 7, 20163 votes

Xypherous expressed fallout changes for her after the update launches.

Ayame IsakiApr 7, 20161 votes

Good to know, thanks!

The Sword SaintApr 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ayame Isaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LLlgiEL3,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-04-07T16:15:07.756+0000)

The bigger problem is that does this change mean for Akali:

Akali's laning phase is pretty bad until she gets this item so she can sustain a little bit. Removing early access to sustain will further reduce her ability to trade early which will extend her weak laning phase even longer. This in turn will further delay the acquisition of .

Are they planning on buffing Akali's early game to compensate? I know borders on heresy, but really, what else is there to do in this case? I'm open to suggestions!

Idk man, that 75 magic damage on auto passive is at least as powerful as a thunderlord proc early game if you still choose to rush gunblade. Assuming it only procs vs champions, which it should, then its like sticking a magic damage sheen in there to compensate you until you finish the gunblade which has been hugely buffed by the way.

I Dont Get GotApr 10, 20161 votes

tbh this is an overall buff for akali, the gunblade will pack more of a punch with the new damage and instant hit. And ill just build the cutlass first for the sustain part while still adding 100 magic dmg to my burst.

AstôlfoApr 7, 20162 votes

incoming "you're akali freelo playing trash, akali is op and thus should be turned into trash, blah blah blah" from QQers.

Akali is SO HOTApr 10, 20161 votes

The hell is that. Now she has an even harder time staying in lane because her sustain will be much weaker and I'm not really sure how good that passive is gonna be early game for her especially since it's on a 30 second cooldown