I think my favorite thing about all of these last two years is.

Theorex·Jul 13, 2019·24 votes·10,807 views

When we finally leave damage meta, and we have some champions that are SOOO overtuned, and other champions completely underpowered. That we get a massive change list like Runes Reforged all over again.

Look at this upcoming patch. There are so many adjustments and micro changes to compensate for either TOO much damage or TOO little damage.

Tahm Kench will be completely fucked once we get out of damage meta. He won't have a place in the game without the things he currently has.

Pyke on the other hand is going to be massively overpowered. Highest HP and Armor.

This is going to be a lovely change list to look at. If we ever leave damage meta at this point

Some of my most frustrating games in League have been in the last two years.

Almost every single one of the games I enjoyed were back in season 2/3/4/5/6.

But its okay, because at the end of this road. There is nothing. At the highest elo for NA solo queue. Its a joke. Win Trading. Trolls. And its just not even close to fun to watch. I hope next season we see another 20-30% ranked playerbase drop again.

52 Comments

Judah BotJul 13, 201928 votes

Runes Reforged was a mistake.

FSRERJul 13, 20195 votes

They wanted to create diversity because, to say the truth, everyone was abusing thunderlords at that point. And so, we got runes reforged, aka, at the beggining Dark Harvest, then Conqueror and now whatever this mess is. They should have just changed some numbers, nerfed thunderlords, nerfed deathfire, nerfed courage of the colosus and that would have been perfectly fine because on the most part, the older runes were very balanced.

Silent ReaperJul 13, 20197 votes

The entire point of runes reforged was to give different gameplay options to players but in the end, it became an optimization game of which champions can abuse the stats more.

ThefrostyvikingJul 13, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silent Reaper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-07-13T21:59:55.212+0000)

The entire point of runes reforged was to give different gameplay options to players but in the end, it became an optimization game of which champions can abuse the stats more.

More options did happen though, something like a Garen main reaching masters because he can adapt his builds&runes to deal with anything wouldnt have happened with the previous systems.

We have Ashe being able to use basically all the precision keystones or arcane comet if using a poke build.

Midlane mages being able to use at least 3 keystones, sometimes more.

I do not think its worth to forget that this system did a lot of good for many even if it also did cause a lot of problems like lack of options for many tanks, fighters and assassins.

True GarenJul 14, 20194 votes

{quoted}

More options did happen though, something like a Garen main reaching masters because he can adapt his builds&runes to deal with anything wouldnt have happened with the previous systems.

We have Ashe being able to use basically all the precision keystones or arcane comet if using a poke build.

Midlane mages being able to use at least 3 keystones, sometimes more.

I do not think its worth to forget that this system did a lot of good for many even if it also did cause a lot of problems like lack of options for many tanks, fighters and assassins.

I would disagree with this assessment. He'd have managed it sooner, if not for the changes. (Incidentally, Masters is old news. riste was Challenger for ~2 weeks recently.) The previous Stormraiders Surge was way better for Garen than the current Phase Rush. Predator is unique, but given the choice, I think most Garen will still prefer the old keystones.

In any event, you're offerring kind of a weird example. With the new system, Garen sufferred from being singularly unable to abuse any Rune. He can use almost all of the Keystones, but is generally played with one of like 3 or 4 of them. Perhaps he typifies the intention. But Garen is probably the only champion that plays like this, being rather generalized. He's the only non-Jungler that I am aware that normally takes Predator.

ThefrostyvikingJul 14, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-14T18:04:39.292+0000)

I would disagree with this assessment. He'd have managed it sooner, if not for the changes. (Incidentally, Masters is old news. riste was Challenger for ~2 weeks recently.) The previous Stormraiders Surge was way better for Garen than the current Phase Rush. Predator is unique, but given the choice, I think most Garen will still prefer the old keystones.

And what most Garens want doesnt quite hold weight when Riste hit masters in the first place because he became able to adapt his builds because he had some many options to choose from.....sure having stormraider would make him better against some but he also would not have options against others, probably more so.

In any event, you're offerring kind of a weird example. With the new system, Garen sufferred from being singularly unable to abuse any Rune. He can use almost all of the Keystones, but is generally played with one of like 3 or 4 of them. Perhaps he typifies the intention. But Garen is probably the only champion that plays like this, being rather generalized. He's the only non-Jungler that I am aware that normally takes Predator.

A keystone being "abused" is almost always bad though, like Kayle greatly accelerating her game with klepto thus breaking her power curve until she got nerfed a lot for it.

I actually consider Riste´s situation to be pretty ideal, his Garen doesnt hard on "abuse" anything to the point of being balanced around it and being unable to use anything else but instead he is fairly good with a lot of options which makes him flexible and able to respond&deal with more than usual.

Despite having a very simplistic champion kit to work with.

True GarenJul 15, 20195 votes

{quoted}

And what most Garens want doesnt quite hold weight when Riste hit masters in the first place because he became able to adapt his builds because he had some many options to choose from.....sure having stormraider would make him better against some but he also would not have options against others, probably more so.

A keystone being "abused" is almost always bad though, like Kayle greatly accelerating her game with klepto thus breaking her power curve until she got nerfed a lot for it.

I actually consider Riste´s situation to be pretty ideal, his Garen doesnt hard on "abuse" anything to the point of being balanced around it and being unable to use anything else but instead he is fairly good with a lot of options which makes him flexible and able to respond&deal with more than usual.

Despite having a very simplistic champion kit to work with.

I don't think that Runes Reforged can be credited with riste hitting masters. It's iffy in general, to say whether Runes Reforged in general, has been good for Garen or not. In any event, Garen has unique circumstances; I don't think that the state of Garen is a good indicator for the state of the game.

ThefrostyvikingJul 15, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-15T11:40:17.007+0000)

I don't think that Runes Reforged can be credited with riste hitting masters. It's iffy in general, to say whether Runes Reforged in general, has been good for Garen or not. In any event, Garen has unique circumstances; I don't think that the state of Garen is a good indicator for the state of the game.

State of garen is indeed not a indicator for the entire game, but i used him as example of what others should ideally be able to do, and many are able to do to a degree.

There is a lot of bad stuff, but there is also a lot of good stuff that we wont notice as much.

ThefrostyvikingJul 13, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Judah Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-13T09:20:11.466+0000)

Runes Reforged was a mistake.

Not really, it accomplished it´s goal very well of creating diversity by adding options so everyone didnt just run the same things, there are many who have several options to choose from to adapt their gameplay as they might wish. That is something i believe is very positive.

What isnt though, is that many of the runes were made with good intentions but poor vision/consideration of the future, examples of that would be Aftershock, Conqueror, kleptomancy and perhaps even dark harvest.

Even so, a lot of bad does not mean a lot of good didnt happen, it simply means we got both.

And i do prefer the present state of things overall compared when we had like......6-8 thunderlords and a pair of courage of the collosus users as well as potentially a pair of oddballs using either warlords bloodthirst or if malzahar/teemo, deathfire touch.

MiracleMorg94Jul 16, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Not really, it accomplished it´s goal very well of creating diversity by adding options so everyone didnt just run the same things, there are many who have several options to choose from to adapt their gameplay as they might wish. That is something i believe is very positive.

What isnt though, is that many of the runes were made with good intentions but poor vision/consideration of the future, examples of that would be Aftershock, Conqueror, kleptomancy and perhaps even dark harvest.

Even so, a lot of bad does not mean a lot of good didnt happen, it simply means we got both.

And i do prefer the present state of things overall compared when we had like......6-8 thunderlords and a pair of courage of the collosus users as well as potentially a pair of oddballs using either warlords bloodthirst or if malzahar/teemo, deathfire touch.

Sorry but no. They created less diversity by taking out a lot of options we used to have, and pigenholing us into literally only one or two over the top runes while the rest are shit. We have less customization and diversity now then we did with the old runes and masteries.

Pika FoxJul 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Sorry but no. They created less diversity by taking out a lot of options we used to have, and pigenholing us into literally only one or two over the top runes while the rest are shit. We have less customization and diversity now then we did with the old runes and masteries.

If you think diversity is down with runes reforged, you simply didnt use old rumes properly. Full stop.

Every champion had 1 rune set you used, and you had 0 options other than slight adjustments on ADCs for last hitting and a couple AS runes changes for junglers, depending.

MiracleMorg94Jul 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T13:41:02.826+0000)

If you think diversity is down with runes reforged, you simply didnt use old rumes properly. Full stop.

Every champion had 1 rune set you used, and you had 0 options other than slight adjustments on ADCs for last hitting and a couple AS runes changes for junglers, depending.

100% wrong. Not only did I have multiple rune pages for different set ups for different champions- ad/ap/hybrid reds, armor/health yellows, mr/mana/cdr blues, and ad/ap/health quints, not to mention flat/scaling options as well.

Masteries I used different options for who I was playing and who I used against. 18/0/12 for a easy matchup, 12/0/18 for a harder matchup, or anywhere in between.

There were tons of ways to customize with the old system. Full stop.

And it wasn't just me doing this. I looked at multiple high ranked gamers including streamers and saw what they used, so with that said, every champion had more than one rune set used and had multiple options to choose from.

Now? Yea champions literally only have ONE rune that's best since the rest are basically crap, and little to none adjustments.

Old system > Runes Reforged, period.

ThefrostyvikingJul 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Sorry but no. They created less diversity by taking out a lot of options we used to have, and pigenholing us into literally only one or two over the top runes while the rest are shit. We have less customization and diversity now then we did with the old runes and masteries.

Incorrect, at least partially.

The users of the problematic runes are indeed more or less stuck with using them, hence my calling them a problem......Irelia w conqueror comes to mind as a good example, or Sejuani with aftershock.

But for many...or most mages,assassins marksmen, supports and others they have as much as 3, 4 or even more options to choose from when picking runes.

Before you look between thunderlords,....and thunderlords, maybe deathfire touch if playing malzahar, teemo or maybe cassio, marksmen ran fervor or bloodthirst and melee basically always ran fervor or courage of the collusus.

Hells even the damn support ran thunderlords if memory serves.

So indeed, diversity is unquestionably greater now, or at least there are more viable options although some are notably better than others but that is still not the case for all of them.

Pika FoxJul 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Incorrect, at least partially.

The users of the problematic runes are indeed more or less stuck with using them, hence my calling them a problem......Irelia w conqueror comes to mind as a good example, or Sejuani with aftershock.

But for many...or most mages,assassins marksmen, supports and others they have as much as 3, 4 or even more options to choose from when picking runes.

Before you look between thunderlords,....and thunderlords, maybe deathfire touch if playing malzahar, teemo or maybe cassio, marksmen ran fervor or bloodthirst and melee basically always ran fervor or courage of the collusus.

Hells even the damn support ran thunderlords if memory serves.

So indeed, diversity is unquestionably greater now, or at least there are more viable options although some are notably better than others but that is still not the case for all of them.

Then you, objectively, were not that good.

The only option 99% of champions in the game had were armor or hp yellows. Thats it. Thats the extent of old rune diversity at the highest tier of play.

It got to the point where 1 single crit rune was a fucking massive game changing idea. A single crit rune.

MiracleMorg94Jul 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=00000002000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-16T15:34:27.128+0000)

Then you, objectively, were not that good.

The only option 99% of champions in the game had were armor or hp yellows. Thats it. Thats the extent of old rune diversity at the highest tier of play.

It got to the point where 1 single crit rune was a fucking massive game changing idea. A single crit rune.

You replied to the wrong person, I think. Also, learn to be respectful.

Don't ever say someone is not good at the game, that's offensive.

Did you not read? They had lots of rune options, way more then what we have now. With the old system, you had literally everything you needed including defense. Now? Damage, damage, damage, damage, CDR, damage, damage, damage.

And since defense has been basically removed, no one wants to take the meager armor/mr/health stats they added very late into the game of Runes Reforged.

Old system you had your damage, got a good amount of defense and you were set to go.

Pika FoxJul 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You replied to the wrong person, I think. Also, learn to be respectful.

Don't ever say someone is not good at the game, that's offensive.

Did you not read? They had lots of rune options, way more then what we have now. With the old system, you had literally everything you needed including defense. Now? Damage, damage, damage, damage, CDR, damage, damage, damage.

And since defense has been basically removed, no one wants to take the meager armor/mr/health stats they added very late into the game of Runes Reforged.

Old system you had your damage, got a good amount of defense and you were set to go.

Im not saying youre bad and suck, im saying if you tried any customization of your rune pages outside very minor changes for last hitting, you objectively could not perform well at the game.

There was 0 decision making with old runes. Almost all of them were traps, and only a handful were competitively viable. You physically could not be good at the game changing your rune page because there was an objective best setup.

MiracleMorg94Jul 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=0000000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T16:10:24.096+0000)

Im not saying youre bad and suck, im saying if you tried any customization of your rune pages outside very minor changes for last hitting, you objectively could not perform well at the game.

There was 0 decision making with old runes. Almost all of them were traps, and only a handful were competitively viable. You physically could not be good at the game changing your rune page because there was an objective best setup.

There was a ton of decision making into the game, don't say there wasn't any again. I customized mine almost every game and benefited very well from it. Not to mention the high rank people I mentioned did it as well.

They were not all traps. Sure, maybe if you chose a revival rune, but most people were smart to keep their pages with the main runes while still grabbing the occasional other things that helped depending on the matchup. Heck, some people even went full AD runes in one page and snowballed off of it, so yes you COULD be good at the game changing the pages to best suit your needs.

Now? Yea changing into anything but the one best option for your champ will screw you over, unlike the old system.

Pika FoxJul 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

There was a ton of decision making into the game, don't say there wasn't any again. I customized mine almost every game and benefited very well from it. Not to mention the high rank people I mentioned did it as well.

They were not all traps. Sure, maybe if you chose a revival rune, but most people were smart to keep their pages with the main runes while still grabbing the occasional other things that helped depending on the matchup. Heck, some people even went full AD runes in one page and snowballed off of it, so yes you COULD be good at the game changing the pages to best suit your needs.

Now? Yea changing into anything but the one best option for your champ will screw you over, unlike the old system.

There was literally zero decision making in the game beyond armor or health yellows and very very minor changes to reds between how much AD/AS/ARpen you wanted. Literally nothing else was changed.

You had an objective best load out you physically could not move away from or else you could never compete at a pro level by definition. Flat stats are garbage for decision making.

New runes are all playstyle dependant and contextual. Is lane going to be rough as an ADC? Fleet footwork can get you through lane. Have a short all in combo as an ADC? HoB/PTA. Great at long poke as an ADC? Comet. Finishing off executing? Dark harvest. Extra utility? Glacial augment. Safe lane with little early damage but good scaling? Klepto.

All of these are viable on ADCs alone. You would NEVER see this level of customization and decision making with old runes, where your biggest decision was "armor yellows or HP yellows?"

MiracleMorg94Jul 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=000000020000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T16:29:08.383+0000)

There was literally zero decision making in the game beyond armor or health yellows and very very minor changes to reds between how much AD/AS/ARpen you wanted. Literally nothing else was changed.

Facepalm Good Lord. There was literally a ton of decision making. Full stop.

You had an objective best load out you physically could not move away from or else you could never compete at a pro level by definition. Flat stats are garbage for decision making.

Wrong again. Thousands of people had multiple best options, not just one.

New runes are all playstyle dependant and contextual. Is lane going to be rough as an ADC? Fleet footwork can get you through lane. Have a short all in combo as an ADC? HoB/PTA. Great at long poke as an ADC? Comet. Finishing off executing? Dark harvest. Extra utility? Glacial augment. Safe lane with little early damage but good scaling? Klepto.

All of these are viable on ADCs alone. You would NEVER see this level of customization and decision making with old runes, where your biggest decision was "armor yellows or HP yellows?"

Nope. Viable but suck ass? Sure. ADCs are best with Tempo or Fleet.

You keep mentioning the rune pages from before that only armor or HP yellows are the only customization.........I think you need to go back in history and study a bit dude.

The current Runes Reforged runes- are actually the OLD MASTERIES.

Old runes were just extra stats to buff on top of the masteries.

Therefore, you had way more to customize with. You had the stats, then got to choose all the different masteries you wanted- YOU GOT FUCKING 30 POINTS TO CHOOSE FROM on top of the 30 runes you could use, for a total of 60!

Now? We only get 6 runes with 3 slots of extra stats.

With that said, people had way more options to choose from. I don't remember all the names but this system below, is far superior to what we have now.

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Summoner_Mastery - the 2017 media page.

Pika FoxJul 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Facepalm Good Lord. There was literally a ton of decision making. Full stop.

Wrong again. Thousands of people had multiple best options, not just one.

Nope. Viable but suck ass? Sure. ADCs are best with Tempo or Fleet.

You keep mentioning the rune pages from before that only armor or HP yellows are the only customization.........I think you need to go back in history and study a bit dude.

The current Runes Reforged runes- are actually the OLD MASTERIES.

Old runes were just extra stats to buff on top of the masteries.

Therefore, you had way more to customize with. You had the stats, then got to choose all the different masteries you wanted- YOU GOT FUCKING 30 POINTS TO CHOOSE FROM on top of the 30 runes you could use, for a total of 60!

Now? We only get 6 runes with 3 slots of extra stats.

With that said, people had way more options to choose from. I don't remember all the names but this system below, is far superior to what we have now.

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Summoner_Mastery - the 2017 media page.

Thousands pf people, none of whom were good at the game and would never see a professional tournament in their life.

Did i use crit runes on GP? Sure. Was it good? FUCK NO. if you didnt run the objective best runes for your champion, you were gimping yourself. Full stop.

And if you think fleet and temp are the only usable runes on ADCs.... You dont play ADCs at all. Jhin alone can use harvest/fleet/comet/hob, all with similar winrates, and entirely different playstyles with all of them.

You would NEVER see that in the old system, where there is an objective vest setup for ypur build because flat stats have a gold cost compared to what you build in game and what you need to round out your in game build.

MiracleMorg94Jul 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=00000002000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T16:50:56.069+0000)

Thousands pf people, none of whom were good at the game and would never see a professional tournament in their life.

Well duh, literally thousands will never reach pro, but at least want to do well in their games and eventually climb to a higher division, and customizing helped with that.

Did i use crit runes on GP? Sure. Was it good? FUCK NO. if you didnt run the objective best runes for your champion, you were gimping yourself. Full stop.

Nope. Was my using SV quints on Morgana unusual? Yes, but I did a shit ton of damage on top of healing over half health with one Q, and did really well with it. If you weren't customizing your runes AND MASTERIES, then yes you were gimping yourself. There wasn't one best option back then, there were multiple. Full stop.

And if you think fleet and temp are the only usable runes on ADCs.... You dont play ADCs at all. Jhin alone can use harvest/fleet/comet/hob, all with similar winrates, and entirely different playstyles with all of them.

.....really dude? I have Ashe with level 6 mastery and two level 7 tokens with 97k points, Jinx with level 6 mastery and 74k points. I also play Xayah and Tristana as well.

Best ones for ADCs are fleet and temp, but I also use Press the Attack with success also. And I've never seen a Jhin with comet, hob or harvest, so that goes to show how viable they really are if they aren't that popular on him to begin with.

You would NEVER see that in the old system, where there is an objective vest setup for ypur build because flat stats have a gold cost compared to what you build in game and what you need to round out your in game build.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

DUDE. STOP IT. You clearly just don't understand or just don't read clearly. You keep using the old RUNES to compare to the current MASTERIES we have, which is called Runes Reforged currently. They don't compare dude.

Old runes were flat STATS. The old MASTERIES are what are used to compare to the current "runes" we have, because they had multiple smaller keystones with a big one at the end.

So with multiple options of runes on top of hundreds of combinations in the masteries, yes you saw it in the old system that was way better than the shit we have now.

Pika FoxJul 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Well duh, literally thousands will never reach pro, but at least want to do well in their games and eventually climb to a higher division, and customizing helped with that.

Nope. Was my using SV quints on Morgana unusual? Yes, but I did a shit ton of damage on top of healing over half health with one Q, and did really well with it. If you weren't customizing your runes AND MASTERIES, then yes you were gimping yourself. There wasn't one best option back then, there were multiple. Full stop.

.....really dude? I have Ashe with level 6 mastery and two level 7 tokens with 97k points, Jinx with level 6 mastery and 74k points. I also play Xayah and Tristana as well.

Best ones for ADCs are fleet and temp, but I also use Press the Attack with success also. And I've never seen a Jhin with comet, hob or harvest, so that goes to show how viable they really are if they aren't that popular on him to begin with.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

DUDE. STOP IT. You clearly just don't understand or just don't read clearly. You keep using the old RUNES to compare to the current MASTERIES we have, which is called Runes Reforged currently. They don't compare dude.

Old runes were flat STATS. The old MASTERIES are what are used to compare to the current "runes" we have, because they had multiple smaller keystones with a big one at the end.

So with multiple options of runes on top of hundreds of combinations in the masteries, yes you saw it in the old system that was way better than the shit we have now.

Youve never seen jhin run hob? Are you trolling? Hob and jhin were specifically nerfed because of how good it was on him.

And "doing well" with a setup doesnt mean it is viable. A diamond garen main can climb to high plat running full AP garen. Doesnt make AP garen good.

Fact is, if you customized your runes and thought it was a good idea, you were gimping yourself. There was one correct choice for all champions. Thats how flat stats work. Theres no arguing against hard stats when you can objectively compare them to gold costs and what your in game build is.l for what it needs to pair with it.

Sure, you could run spell vamp runes... Or you could itemize for it, and if mpen was more gold efficient, youd be trolling for taking vamp over pen runes.

MiracleMorg94Jul 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=0000000200000001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T18:00:27.353+0000)

Youve never seen jhin run hob? Are you trolling? Hob and jhin were specifically nerfed because of how good it was on him.

Dude I've been playing for 5 years now. I'm not a troll. I have 9 champions with level 7 mastery, 9 with level 6, and 14 with level 5. Don't ever call me a troll again.

With that said, I've never seen it on Jhin and I've played over 700 games this season alone.

And "doing well" with a setup doesnt mean it is viable. A diamond garen main can climb to high plat running full AP garen. Doesnt make AP garen good.

Same argument goes for Jhin.

Fact is, if you customized your runes and thought it was a good idea, you were gimping yourself. There was one correct choice for all champions. Thats how flat stats work. Theres no arguing against hard stats when you can objectively compare them to gold costs and what your in game build is.l for what it needs to pair with it.

That's not a fact boy. There were multiple choices. And oh my fucking God. You don't read. I'm clearly mind blown right now. This makes me think you never played in the old system to begin with.

I'm done with this conversation since you don't seem to understand anything. Good bye.

Pika FoxJul 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Dude I've been playing for 5 years now. I'm not a troll. I have 9 champions with level 7 mastery, 9 with level 6, and 14 with level 5. Don't ever call me a troll again.

With that said, I've never seen it on Jhin and I've played over 700 games this season alone.

Same argument goes for Jhin.

That's not a fact boy. There were multiple choices. And oh my fucking God. You don't read. I'm clearly mind blown right now. This makes me think you never played in the old system to begin with.

I'm done with this conversation since you don't seem to understand anything. Good bye.

Yeah, at this point youre just trolling. Hob and jhin were both nerfed about a year ago because of how steong it was on him alone, and its STILL a contender for top pick. If you play adc, theres no way you never saw it.

And again, youre proveably and factually wrong with math alone.

If penetration is harder to obtain AND worth more gold than AD/AP/Etc via runes, why would you EVER pick anything else? Youd literally be intentionally gimping yourself.

You selected what you needed to last hit on reds, then literally everything else was what was most gold efficient compared to what you needed in your build.

Anything else, by math and definition, was gimping yourself.

This physically does not hold true with runes reforged, as youre not getting flat stats at all, and they enforce entire gamplay playstyle changes to use effectively and are very match dependant.

Fleet is good in lanes you have difficulty, but very bad in lanes you will easily get ahead in.

MiracleMorg94Jul 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=00000002000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-16T18:42:09.494+0000)

Yeah, at this point youre just trolling. Hob and jhin were both nerfed about a year ago because of how steong it was on him alone, and its STILL a contender for top pick. If you play adc, theres no way you never saw it.

Nope I'm not. I play ADC, mid and support primarily and never seen it.

And again, youre proveably and factually wrong with math alone.

Excuse me? Stop assuming things again. I have 762 games played this season alone, with 2 of them being normals. I play mostly ranked. Don't believe me? Check my main account: https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=SnugglePuggle94. I'm using a smurf account to post on here because due to a long story, the mods banned my main here.

If penetration is harder to obtain AND worth more gold than AD/AP/Etc via runes, why would you EVER pick anything else? Youd literally be intentionally gimping yourself.

You selected what you needed to last hit on reds, then literally everything else was what was most gold efficient compared to what you needed in your build.

......You still don't read. Good Lord.

Anything else, by math and definition, was gimping yourself.

This physically does not hold true with runes reforged, as youre not getting flat stats at all, and they enforce entire gamplay playstyle changes to use effectively and are very match dependant.

Old system enforced better gameplay playstyles than Runes Reforged, which just has less flat stats (old runes), and added a shit ton of just mainly damage masteries with an occasional cdr/mana/mobility/whatever added in that most people don't take anyway.

Fleet is good in lanes you have difficulty, but very bad in lanes you will easily get ahead in.

Yup I know that. Old system let you have better options in terms of lifesteal on top of a damage ADC rune, so old > new.

Pika FoxJul 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Nope I'm not. I play ADC, mid and support primarily and never seen it.

Excuse me? Stop assuming things again. I have 762 games played this season alone, with 2 of them being normals. I play mostly ranked. Don't believe me? Check my main account: https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=SnugglePuggle94. I'm using a smurf account to post on here because due to a long story, the mods banned my main here.

......You still don't read. Good Lord.

Old system enforced better gameplay playstyles than Runes Reforged, which just has less flat stats (old runes), and added a shit ton of just mainly damage masteries with an occasional cdr/mana/mobility/whatever added in that most people don't take anyway.

Yup I know that. Old system let you have better options in terms of lifesteal on top of a damage ADC rune, so old > new.

Had better options in terms of lifesteal.... That was trolling if you ever picked it because it was not gold or build efficient to run lifesteal runes.

Such options! You can pick something and intentionally make yourself a worse player by using it in literally all conceivable scenarios! Wow!

MiracleMorg94Jul 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=00000002000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2019-07-16T19:55:06.907+0000)

Had better options in terms of lifesteal.... That was trolling if you ever picked it because it was not gold or build efficient to run lifesteal runes.

Such options! You can pick something and intentionally make yourself a worse player by using it in literally all conceivable scenarios! Wow!

I never said lifesteal runes. facepalm

Meant lifesteal MASTERIES. Reference the photo I posted above with the link.

I'm comparing all the lifesteal options in the old damage tree to the Fleet "rune" we have now.

Such options! You can pick something and actually do WELL WITH IT in just about all scenarios! WOW!

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Pika FoxJul 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I never said lifesteal runes. facepalm

Meant lifesteal MASTERIES. Reference the photo I posted above with the link.

I'm comparing all the lifesteal options in the old damage tree to the Fleet "rune" we have now.

Such options! You can pick something and actually do WELL WITH IT in just about all scenarios! WOW!

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

You mean the old capstone that got reworked multiple times right after ot was released for being too good on champs like trynd jungle?

And fleet/rav hunter/taste of blood or w/e its called and the other few all provide solid in game health restoration.

ThefrostyvikingJul 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=00000002000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-16T15:34:27.128+0000)

Then you, objectively, were not that good.

The only option 99% of champions in the game had were armor or hp yellows. Thats it. Thats the extent of old rune diversity at the highest tier of play.

It got to the point where 1 single crit rune was a fucking massive game changing idea. A single crit rune.

......Did you follow the conversation at all? Or did you write to the wrong person?

I was arguing that the current system, while flawed, is still more diverse x)

MiracleMorg94Jul 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Incorrect, at least partially.

The users of the problematic runes are indeed more or less stuck with using them, hence my calling them a problem......Irelia w conqueror comes to mind as a good example, or Sejuani with aftershock.

But for many...or most mages,assassins marksmen, supports and others they have as much as 3, 4 or even more options to choose from when picking runes.

Yea no. This new system only one or two. Old system had way more.

Before you look between thunderlords,....and thunderlords, maybe deathfire touch if playing malzahar, teemo or maybe cassio, marksmen ran fervor or bloodthirst and melee basically always ran fervor or courage of the collusus.

Hells even the damn support ran thunderlords if memory serves.

Nope. I don't remember all the names but most went Windspeaker's blessing, with the other helpful supporting slots. Too bad I can't find the actual list of every old rune and mastery because I could argue better with it.

So indeed, diversity is unquestionably greater now, or at least there are more viable options although some are notably better than others but that is still not the case for all of them.

Diversity is unquestionably WORSE now than it was before, full stop.

ThefrostyvikingJul 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yea no. This new system only one or two. Old system had way more.

Your own opinion with no backing, i can meanwhile direct you to the existence of a Garen onetrick in NA challenger who basically switches his build around entirely each game depending on his opponent and enemy team.

He runs anything he feels is helpful from grasp,aftershock, phase rush, conqueror, predator, glacial augment and even unsealed spellbook, 7 different keystone setups.

7? Garen used to have 2, grasp or stormraiders.

Furthermore just looking at someone simple like say Ashe we can verify, how many runes can she use well?

All the precision ones except conqueror, she can also use arcane comment and its even meta right now.

Orianna? Electrolute, Aery, comet, phase rush and unsealed spellbook.

Shyvana? Conqueror, dark harvest, PtA.

Vi? Conqueror, aftershock, electrolute and hail of blades.

Morgana? Aery, comet, glacial augment and even guardian are being used.

Nope. I don't remember all the names but most went Windspeaker's blessing, with the other helpful supporting slots. Too bad I can't find the actual list of every old rune and mastery because I could argue better with it.

Windspeaker? I dont think i ever saw anyone except Janna and Soraka run it, it was even so good it got nerfed to the point where they both started running thunderlords and it was a giant meme for a while, although it was buffed back later.,,,,,but only so much that they were certainly the only users.

It was kinda like deathfire touch in having like such a small group of exclusive users which was quite the joke on its own, but i did forget that Grasp of the undying existed and some used it, it was just so uncommon due to fervor and CoC being far more popular.

Diversity is unquestionably WORSE now than it was before, full stop.

Before we saw Ashe run fervor or warlords, never anything else, 2 setups vs today's 4.

Ori ran thunderlords, 1 setup vs present 5.

Shyvana was kinda a joke but she only ran fervor too, 1 vs 3.

Darius, used to run only fervor but now he can run aftershock, conqueror, grasp, phase rush and even PTA, check the master elo guide on his reddit if you want verification.

Vi? 2 vs 4 setups.

So all in all....you´re telling me diversity has decreased with these being the case? I highly recommend you take off your multilayered rose tinted&heart shaped glasses that you look at the past with, looks damn ridiculous.

And no i havent been saying its perfect either, there are still cases of some champs being balanced around their runes just like old janna&windspeakers which is bad, but diversity is still higher overall.

MiracleMorg94Jul 16, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Your own opinion with no backing, i can meanwhile direct you to the existence of a Garen onetrick in NA challenger who basically switches his build around entirely each game depending on his opponent and enemy team.

I was talking about the best viable options, not ALL of them. I know there's more than one option, but not all of them are the best.

He runs anything he feels is helpful from grasp,aftershock, phase rush, conqueror, predator, glacial augment and even unsealed spellbook, 7 different keystone setups.

7? Garen used to have 2, grasp or stormraiders.

Furthermore just looking at someone simple like say Ashe we can verify, how many runes can she use well?

All the precision ones except conqueror, she can also use arcane comment and its even meta right now.

Orianna? Electrolute, Aery, comet, phase rush and unsealed spellbook.

Shyvana? Conqueror, dark harvest, PtA.

Vi? Conqueror, aftershock, electrolute and hail of blades.

Morgana? Aery, comet, glacial augment and even guardian are being used.

You are using the example of only the one "main" keystone that champs use. I'm talking about the overall setup as a WHOLE, has less customization than the old system. The old system had the RUNES- flat or scaling stats you could use (reds, yellows, blues, purples). Then we had the MASTERIES- three trees full of options to choose from- over 30 points were in each tree, and you got 30 to use for your overall page. Meaning you can go full offense (18/12/0), half and half (18/0/12) or full defense (0/12/18).

The overall system now? You only get TWO trees to select from, and only get 6 POINTS. Riot only added the 3 small stat slots much later into the game where now most people don't even opt into the defense because it's so lackluster, and they just go for more damage instead.

Windspeaker? I dont think i ever saw anyone except Janna and Soraka run it, it was even so good it got nerfed to the point where they both started running thunderlords and it was a giant meme for a while, although it was buffed back later.,,,,,but only so much that they were certainly the only users.

I saw it run on all the heal/shield supports, including myself I ran it on all of them. I don't ever recall any of them taking thunderlords at all.

They were not the only users by a long shot.

It was kinda like deathfire touch in having like such a small group of exclusive users which was quite the joke on its own, but i did forget that Grasp of the undying existed and some used it, it was just so uncommon due to fervor and CoC being far more popular.

Well duh, DT was best on the mages that had DOT abilities, mainly mages like Brand. Tanks never went for Fervor, so they had Grasp and CoC that were their main ones.

Before we saw Ashe run fervor or warlords, never anything else, 2 setups vs today's 4.

Ori ran thunderlords, 1 setup vs present 5.

Shyvana was kinda a joke but she only ran fervor too, 1 vs 3.

Darius, used to run only fervor but now he can run aftershock, conqueror, grasp, phase rush and even PTA, check the master elo guide on his reddit if you want verification.

Vi? 2 vs 4 setups.

Again, only talking about the main keystones. Like I said above, there are options that they can run, but not are the best, leaving one or two as the main ones. Old system had multiple BEST setups people could run, so with that, both systems are equal.

So all in all....you´re telling me diversity has decreased with these being the case? I highly recommend you take off your multilayered rose tinted&heart shaped glasses that you look at the past with, looks damn ridiculous.

Wow. How rude. And yes, diversity has decreased.

And no i havent been saying its perfect either, there are still cases of some champs being balanced around their runes just like old janna&windspeakers which is bad, but diversity is still higher overall.

LOL nope, it's not. Nice try tho.

ThefrostyvikingJul 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I was talking about the best viable options, not ALL of them. I know there's more than one option, but not all of them are the best.

And that´s the difference compared to before.

You can run Ashe with either Comet, PtA, FF or LT and people wont bat an eye, before if you ran anything except fervor or bloodthirst (Whichever was meta at the time) then you´d get straight up called a griefer/troll.

You are using the example of only the one "main" keystone that champs use. I'm talking about the overall setup as a WHOLE, has less customization than the old system. The old system had the RUNES- flat or scaling stats you could use (reds, yellows, blues, purples). Then we had the MASTERIES- three trees full of options to choose from- over 30 points were in each tree, and you got 30 to use for your overall page. Meaning you can go full offense (18/12/0), half and half (18/0/12) or full defense (0/12/18).

Ah those,,,,,,,if i recall right then above like gold or something everyone basically just ran exactly the same pages with some cheeky buggers stuffing in 1% critchance somewhere, and that was it.

The masteries tree´s are essentially kept, most of them were just minor stat boosts anyway which got combined into larger ones, it was even partially fused with todays rune system in which we have real scaling options that work the same or even better.

Those 30 points were just filler for reaching a handful of actually notable ones that mostly got placed further down, such as the keystones or a 5% lifesteal buff etc-

The overall system now? You only get TWO trees to select from, and only get 6 POINTS. Riot only added the 3 small stat slots much later into the game where now most people don't even opt into the defense because it's so lackluster, and they just go for more damage instead.

Those 6 points are basically what you get when you remove all the redundant and useless stuff from the old trees, pretty much everything of note was indeed kept.

Some effects like bandit even got moved over to items like spellthiefs edge.

I saw it run on all the heal/shield supports, including myself I ran it on all of them. I don't ever recall any of them taking thunderlords at all.

"All of them"

The only ones who could consistently heal&shield well back then were Janna, Soraka, Lulu and Sona, and Sona certainly opted into thunderlords often enough, as did lulu.

They were not the only users by a long shot.

Who else could actually use it?

Well duh, DT was best on the mages that had DOT abilities, mainly mages like Brand. Tanks never went for Fervor, so they had Grasp and CoC that were their main ones.

"Was best"

Thats not the problem, problem was that it didnt work on anyone else, period, except Jhin&mf for a while until removal via nerfs.

Again, only talking about the main keystones. Like I said above, there are options that they can run, but not are the best, leaving one or two as the main ones. Old system had multiple BEST setups people could run, so with that, both systems are equal.

Old system didnt have multiple setups, 80-90% of the population used the same builds and the same setups with minor changes like some extra MR or armor in one matchup or another if they had a lot of rune pages.

Wow. How rude. And yes, diversity has decreased.

You providing 0 evidence for any of your claims is equally respectful, all i see are baseless claims while we have Riot themselves stating that the system was revamped due to the extreme lack of diversity which was extremely boring for everyone involved.

LOL nope, it's not. Nice try tho.

Lets look at the old ferocity tree.

2% attackspeed or spelldamage.
Taste of blood (same as we got now but a worse one) / a 20 HP heal on a minion kill every 30 sec /3% bonus damage on a enemy hit by one of your abilities for your allies.
2% lifesteal and spellvamp / scaling stats going up to 10 AD+18 AP lvl 18.
1% bonus damage for each unique champ killed / 3% bonus damage&1,5 taken / ramping 3% bonus damage in combat vs enemy champ.
7% armor pen / 7% magic pen.

6 . Warlords bloodthirst (Fleet footwork) / fervor / deathfire touch.

So for your average marksman:

2% attackspeeed. taste of blood. 2% lifesteal. 5% bonus damage. 7% armor pen. Fervor= 80 AD.

All of them ran this, no exceptions unless trolling.

Then from the resolve tree (most common but not mandatory) one could get.

2 bonus HP regen per 5. 15+movespeed in brush/river. 8% bonus heal&shields.

Would you look at that? Basically just minor stat buffs with 0 real interaction and naturally given that some stats were more helpful for some champs everyone naturally just ran the same stuff always because that´s what people do, if they have clear alternatives with obvious differences then they take the best.

Take a good long hard look at the mastery/rune tree´s we have today and be honest, can you even compare them? No matter how i look at it the modern tree´s offer good options on each row that all have noticeable impact or influence while the old one was was generally completely insignificant aside from the keystone.

Diverse? No not at all, some stats were better for your champs so you ran those or got called a troll, and honestly the difference was often so large it was basically justified in many cases.

But there was a exception to the "only keystones really had a impact" rule.....which was the bandit mastery, the one that at the time gave 1 gold for each minion killed by an ally nearby as well as some gold for hitting a champ with a cooldown.

You remember this one? Every single support and their dogs used it, or they pretty much crippled their own laning and suffered miserably.

What great diversity!...Not.

The new system does indeed have fewer options, but almost every single one of them is a legitimate option that has a noticeable effect more often than not....you dont believe me?

Look at the modern trees, find my any except the resolve one that doesnt offer at least 2 good and considerable options on each row for the majority of users.

MiracleMorg94Jul 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

And that´s the difference compared to before.

You can run Ashe with either Comet, PtA, FF or LT and people wont bat an eye, before if you ran anything except fervor or bloodthirst (Whichever was meta at the time) then you´d get straight up called a griefer/troll.

Nope. Back then, our runes and masteries weren't put in the client for others to see, so the only way you knew what a teammate was bringing into the game was if you looked it up on a website like the former LOLKing.net.

And with that, people didn't call others troll for taking something different.

Ah those,,,,,,,if i recall right then above like gold or something everyone basically just ran exactly the same pages with some cheeky buggers stuffing in 1% critchance somewhere, and that was it.

Nope. Like I told the previous person here, people did a lot of customization in their sets depending on the champ they were playing and the matchup. High ranked players did it as well.

The masteries tree´s are essentially kept, most of them were just minor stat boosts anyway which got combined into larger ones, it was even partially fused with todays rune system in which we have real scaling options that work the same or even better.

They weren't minor stats. They had a huge impact in the way your champ worked, and are still to this day better than the shit we have now- which is also basically the same in the fact that there are smaller "masteries" leading to a big one.

Those 30 points were just filler for reaching a handful of actually notable ones that mostly got placed further down, such as the keystones or a 5% lifesteal buff etc-

Nope.

Those 6 points are basically what you get when you remove all the redundant and useless stuff from the old trees, pretty much everything of note was indeed kept.

Nope. Old stuff was way more valuable than what there is now.

Some effects like bandit even got moved over to items like spellthiefs edge.

"All of them"

The only ones who could consistently heal&shield well back then were Janna, Soraka, Lulu and Sona, and Sona certainly opted into thunderlords often enough, as did lulu.

Who else could actually use it?

.....really dude? Janna, Soraka, Lulu, Sona, Nami, Karma, Morgana, Lux.

"Was best"

Thats not the problem, problem was that it didnt work on anyone else, period, except Jhin&mf for a while until removal via nerfs.

Old system didnt have multiple setups, 80-90% of the population used the same builds and the same setups with minor changes like some extra MR or armor in one matchup or another if they had a lot of rune pages.

Again, wrong. Not repeating myself again, read my comment on this above.

You providing 0 evidence for any of your claims is equally respectful, all i see are baseless claims while we have Riot themselves stating that the system was revamped due to the extreme lack of diversity which was extremely boring for everyone involved.

I have provided evidence, and you attacking me is with the rose tinted glasses comment is extremely disrespectful. And hundreds of people know that Riot basically removed diversity, even though they say they were doing it "because their was a lack."

Lets look at the old ferocity tree.

2% attackspeed or spelldamage.

Taste of blood (same as we got now but a worse one) / a 20 HP heal on a minion kill every 30 sec /3% bonus damage on a enemy hit by one of your abilities for your allies.

2% lifesteal and spellvamp / scaling stats going up to 10 AD+18 AP lvl 18.

1% bonus damage for each unique champ killed / 3% bonus damage&1,5 taken / ramping 3% bonus damage in combat vs enemy champ.

7% armor pen / 7% magic pen.

6 . Warlords bloodthirst (Fleet footwork) / fervor / deathfire touch.

So for your average marksman:

2% attackspeeed. taste of blood. 2% lifesteal. 5% bonus damage. 7% armor pen. Fervor= 80 AD.

All of them ran this, no exceptions unless trolling.

Exceptions are not trolling dude. Stop that.

Then from the resolve tree (most common but not mandatory) one could get.

2 bonus HP regen per 5. 15+movespeed in brush/river. 8% bonus heal&shields.

Would you look at that? Basically just minor stat buffs with 0 real interaction and naturally given that some stats were more helpful for some champs everyone naturally just ran the same stuff always because that´s what people do, if they have clear alternatives with obvious differences then they take the best.

Most marksmen ran 18/0/12, not into the resolve tree bud. So they usually went for biscuits/cdr/other utility that was actually useful for them.

Take a good long hard look at the mastery/rune tree´s we have today and be honest, can you even compare them? No matter how i look at it the modern tree´s offer good options on each row that all have noticeable impact or influence while the old one was was generally completely insignificant aside from the keystone.

I already can compare because the previous system not only had defense but multiple unique ways to customize your champion, and that's what made the game GREAT.

The new system removed defense, added a shit ton of stupid damage, and called it a day.

Diverse? No not at all, some stats were better for your champs so you ran those or got called a troll, and honestly the difference was often so large it was basically justified in many cases.

Nope.

But there was a exception to the "only keystones really had a impact" rule.....which was the bandit mastery, the one that at the time gave 1 gold for each minion killed by an ally nearby as well as some gold for hitting a champ with a cooldown.

You remember this one? Every single support and their dogs used it, or they pretty much crippled their own laning and suffered miserably.

What great diversity!...Not.

It is great!

The new system does indeed have fewer options, but almost every single one of them is a legitimate option that has a noticeable effect more often than not....you dont believe me?

Still don't.

Look at the modern trees, find my any except the resolve one that doesnt offer at least 2 good and considerable options on each row for the majority of users.

RavenMagusJul 13, 20199 votes

It's been two years. There has been no attempt made. We are not leaving damage meta.

Haven't you noticed? Just look at tank buffs. Whenever a tank is doing poorly, how do they get fixed? Damage buffs.

MiracleMorg94Jul 13, 20196 votes

100% agreed. We need this damage meta GONE FOREVER because it's made the game literal shit.

DegnisyllortJul 13, 20192 votes

[deleted]

MiracleMorg94Jul 14, 20191 votes

Dude, I know who you are. Stop stalking my comments and indirectly attacking me.

TheorexJul 15, 20191 votes

I feel attacked by this >:( lmao, i'm kidding but this is a comment I wanted to comment on LMAO

MiracleMorg94Jul 15, 20191 votes

Just so you know why I said that, this guy posted a reply on one of my comments on a thread saying League isn't for me and I should go play Candy Land instead like a child, so I reported him. The mods punished him and deleted his comments, so he's been using this account to post on more of my comments saying "go play a different game" on more than one occasion.

So that's why I wanted to say stop stalking me to him.

TheorexJul 16, 20191 votes

Welcome to the internet I suppose. A little creepy that he is that petty. But ehh, not my problem I guess.

The best thing you can really do is use a VPN, and just ignore the comments. Sounds like girl + internet problems to me lmao.

GL HF

DegnisyllortJul 26, 20191 votes

[deleted]

MiracleMorg94Jul 27, 20191 votes

And if you don't stop stalking me, I will go to the boards Discord and report you.

ZeyphelJul 13, 20193 votes

I don't know what is happening at this point. I am just playing Smite and having 3x more fun. I wanted to rotate between Lol and Smite but if they keep going the way they are going I will just play Smite.

Nea104Jul 13, 20192 votes

The worse is the problem, the quicker should be the solution.

2 years have passed, basically. Guess what does this mean.

General Esdeath Jul 13, 20192 votes

I really like comparing old Riot to new Riot

What was Riot's stance on damage vs defense back then? Well compare summoner 14 to summoner 21 , barrier blocks more than ignite at all levels but has a shorter duration so you have room to outplay barrier.

Look at DPS/on-hit champs. KogMaw is an old design, he'd have to build a bunch of items and shred you, while having no mobility and having to auto you at least 5 times to kill you. Clear escalation of damage with plenty of chances to stop him early and still some later. Twitch is the same way except he has an ult to increase his range by around 55%. Now look at the Kayle rework. Her damage is based on level and she becomes ranged while being able to make herself invincible and can hit multiple people, while dealing true damage. Why not give her more range early and less damage? Make her an actual kiting champ with some defense.

MaskedMadnessJul 13, 20192 votes

i dont think damage meta will ever go away. Riot only understands how to change damage in their code. its like they put the rest of the stats in random spots of the code and damage is at the top so they are like this will do