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What I dont like About League of Legends at the moment as a veteran player

Poske··86 votes·4,681 views

**1. Snowball is To high ** Ehm yeah its not fun to get stomped or stomp while your enemies are unable to do anything even if they play out teamfights perfectly

**2. Teamfights are to short (That season 3 - 4 footage looking so good.... ) ** There is just to much damage and burst. I think that solution is quite simple..

3. Towers are boring, pathetic and have low damage All tower tiers feel the same. Even the inhi laser towers are just like previous towers with a "cool" ramping up laser. Children dont even know what is tower anymore they think the are made out of paper oh and I ll just mention this 1 word TOWERDIVES*

4. Death timers are to high just watch the lcs you ll hear them mention it once every game

**5. Unfair comebacks ** Yeah game is snowbally and on top of that there are wierd unrealistic comebacks? How does that work you might wonder? Well one teamfight in late game (Which is nowdays 35 minutes) basicly decides who can take 25 towers , Baron , Dragon , 3 inhs , and nexus. I dont even feel like I am exaggerating eventhough I am because it is not far off

**6. For a 2016 there are still to many Linear straightforward binary champions ** Xin zhao, Garen , Warwick etc kits are just sad. Their gameplay is even more sad. Its not even fun to watch xin zhao getting outplayed and raped because his kit has 0 mechanics and 0 tools. Even in the patch before where he was considered Ultra over powered he felt worthless in high elo and to easy to handle Just think about this for a second. IN order to see warwick on lcs He needs to have 60% winrate and even then last time he had this he was tier 2 pick

** Just my 2 cents** I would suggest how to fix each of this problems but we all know how that ends up on boards... Every time someone give specific solution Thumb Downs go on a killing spree even if its good solution

64 Comments

redniwediS29 votes

As for point 6, you seem to have missed something in your years of playing.

There are two types of champions; skill based and knowledge based. Skill based champions are the ones that do the flashy plays and get the run around on their opponents. Knowledge based champions, however, have simple kits that only rely on deciding when and where to apply their abilities.

You're talking as if every champion should be skill based. Keep in mind most of League's player base isn't a part of the LCS. Regular players play in a very different environment to the professionals.

Knowledge based champions allow their player to spend more time thinking about how to apply pressure to the map and manipulate team fights, where as a skill based champion spends more time focusing on their individual capability.

Yes, "good" players can do both of these with a skill based champion, but not everyone can have lightning fast reflexes or situational intuition. Allowing knowledge based champions to exist gives people who are more intuition than reflexes a chance at being competitive.

It is a team game after all. Having a mixture of these strengths on a team is far better than letting only one set rise to the top.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

As for point 6, you seem to have missed something in your years of playing.

There are two types of champions; skill based and knowledge based. Skill based champions are the ones that do the flashy plays and get the run around on their opponents. Knowledge based champions, however, have simple kits that only rely on deciding when and where to apply their abilities.

You're talking as if every champion should be skill based. Keep in mind most of League's player base isn't a part of the LCS. Regular players play in a very different environment to the professionals.

Knowledge based champions allow their player to spend more time thinking about how to apply pressure to the map and manipulate team fights, where as a skill based champion spends more time focusing on their individual capability.

Yes, "good" players can do both of these with a skill based champion, but not everyone can have lightning fast reflexes or situational intuition. Allowing knowledge based champions to exist gives people who are more intuition than reflexes a chance at being competitive.

It is a team game after all. Having a mixture of these strengths on a team is far better than letting only one set rise to the top.

Good point I just personaly dont like champions which dont require you to think

I am fine with champions who have really good depth in terms of strategy like teemo But xin zhao for example is really unsatisfying for me

That might be just personal preference But I feel that many people feel the same about Linear champs since they are quite unpopular

LankPants1 votes

I just personaly dont like champions which dont require you to think

There's high skill champions who's actual strategical play could be performed by a carpet and rely almost entirely on mechanics. In fact there's a whole class of them, we call them assassins.

Most assassins don't require any active thought process, they just require you to have good mechanics. The few assassins who do require you to use some brain cells for strategy tend to be the ones that lack escapes or have situational escapes and have slower burst. This is people like Akali and Kha'zix, who require you to think ahead since they normally can't 100-0 someone and if they don't get a kill they're fucked.

For champs like Zed you may as well get your Magic-8-Ball out and ask it what you should do next in the game. If you're a good enough player to 'outplay' your enemy it really doesn't matter what you do in the game, as long as you don't fuck up mechanically you're a great asset to your team. This is what a champ who doesn't require you to think is truly like.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

There's high skill champions who's actual strategical play could be performed by a carpet and rely almost entirely on mechanics. In fact there's a whole class of them, we call them assassins.

Most assassins don't require any active thought process, they just require you to have good mechanics. The few assassins who do require you to use some brain cells for strategy tend to be the ones that lack escapes or have situational escapes and have slower burst. This is people like Akali and Kha'zix, who require you to think ahead since they normally can't 100-0 someone and if they don't get a kill they're fucked.

Oh so because champion can get out once he kills he doesnt require though process? What did I just read????? Irony is I main le bl because she requires me to think alot and she is assassin so I dont see your point. The fact that certain assassins can escape is part of their power budget

For champs like Zed you may as well get your Magic-8-Ball out and ask it what you should do next in the game. If you're a good enough player to 'outplay' your enemy it really doesn't matter what you do in the game, as long as you don't fuck up mechanically you're a great asset to your team. This is what a champ who doesn't require you to think is truly like.

Well in teamfights Zed players need to perform while in 1vs1 they can fk up as hard as they wont they ll still probably take a kill

LankPants1 votes

Well in teamfights Zed players need to perform while in 1vs1 they can fk up as hard as they wont they ll still probably take a kill

That's mechanical skill. Zed doesn't require strategy. The strategy would be choosing when to fight, or when to split. In Zed's case this really doesn't matter since he can easily escape or in some situations even get kills from poor situations. He gets away with making poor strategical decisions with high mechanical play.

Mechanics are technically thought but they're the most basic form of thought in the game. They're the thought of 'what do I do in the next 5 seconds to succeed in the next 5 seconds?' as opposed to strategy which is more 'what do I do to generate a long term lead?'.

In Zed's and a lot of assassins cases the answer to the second question is the first question. There's also champions who are the opposite, where the second question is the answer to the first, Teemo would be the ultimate example.

The point is Zed can succeed without using high level strategy because he can use his mechanics as a bridge to basically get away with poor strategical play. That's not to say the best way to play Zed is to ignore stratagy, every single champ in the game is always going to be better when played with good mechanics and good stratagy. It's more that Zed's strategical barrier to entry is very low, he can be played very successfully by a mechanically skilled player making a lot of strategical mistakes, which is true for a lot of assassins.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

That's mechanical skill. Zed doesn't require strategy. The strategy would be choosing when to fight, or when to split. In Zed's case this really doesn't matter since he can easily escape or in some situations even get kills from poor situations. He gets away with making poor strategical decisions with high mechanical play.

Mechanics are technically thought but they're the most basic form of thought in the game. They're the thought of 'what do I do in the next 5 seconds to succeed in the next 5 seconds?' as opposed to strategy which is more 'what do I do to generate a long term lead?'.

In Zed's and a lot of assassins cases the answer to the second question is the first question. There's also champions who are the opposite, where the second question is the answer to the first, Teemo would be the ultimate example.

The point is Zed can succeed without using high level strategy because he can use his mechanics as a bridge to basically get away with poor strategical play. That's not to say the best way to play Zed is to ignore stratagy, every single champ in the game is always going to be better when played with good mechanics and good stratagy. It's more that Zed's strategical barrier to entry is very low, he can be played very successfully by a mechanically skilled player making a lot of strategical mistakes, which is true for a lot of assassins.

I agree with you Zed really doesnt requite strategy but some assassins Like Le bl ekko do

And yes teemo is the ultimate example. Every time someone says teemo is easy I get so mad. They have no idea how teemo can control an entire game with just his Shrooms.

Most strategic champions would be Teemo, Rek sai, and Eve Imo. We need more strategic champions

Sniperkaj2 votes

There are a lot of very easy champions to play, that is not a melee autattacking statball of cancer (Yi, Xin, Trynd, WW are the worst, but also Shyvana, Jax, Trundle, Olaf and Aatrox are stupid design that is BS if they are overtuned). For example: Malphite, Maokai, Malzahar, Garen, Morgana, Alistar and so on are easy to play, but not cancer like the melee AA'ers. Mechanically easy champions tend to be binary and stat-dependent, but not all of them are, and those champions should be kept strong/viable. The melee AA'ers should be very reliant on perfect snowballing, thus requiring a very high game knowlegde to compensate for lack of mechanical skill required, and yes that means keeping them undertuned. And tank Yi needs to go right now.

Dengeden2 votes

Alistar isn't easy, he needs to use summoner 4 on cooldown or he'll fall off. If he can't pressure you early-mid, he just gets outscaled and ignored/kited.

GlockHammer2 votes

{quoted}

Alistar isn't easy, he needs to use summoner 4 on cooldown or he'll fall off. If he can't pressure you early-mid, he just gets outscaled and ignored/kited.

Dafuq? Alistar borders on broken in the hands of a player with great intuition and tactical sense. Even after all his nerfs he still remains a pick and ban in LCS, he is also surprisingly stronk in solo Q if he doesn't get flat out countered.

If it's solo lane alistar/jungle alistar ur talking about you might be onto something, but support alistar retains massive effectiveness on low gold.

Dengeden2 votes

Ye-e-es, I was talking about how "easy" he is though. Playing around people kiting you is pretty taxing and requires good positioning and game knowledge.

GlockHammer1 votes

{quoted}

Ye-e-es, I was talking about how "easy" he is though. Playing around people kiting you is pretty taxing and requires good positioning and game knowledge.

Well, if you're alistar top I can see what you mean, but then again, ranged top cancer, like Quinn, will make any melee toplaner wanna slash their wrists, she's not OP but so hard and anoying to deal with. As for support alistar, sure, you'll eat some poke, but not as badly as in other lanes.

Dengeden2 votes

That's not all though. When Alistar commits, he doesn't just make himself vulnerable, he also makes himself useless for the duration of his CDs. Getting poked is the least of his worries.

Alüe1 votes

Correct me if i'm wrong, however lately i feel as though those two types of champions definitive difference no longer apply. Especially with the OP mentioning how snowball this season is. Unless riot has changed their perspective (as i last understood it skill shot > knowledge based) on these two types. It really isn't worth playing that skill shot champion for an elo climb, but rather a knowledge base as it is less challenging. Granted there are some skill shot champions still on par, however why risk missing a shot? if the damage with these knowledge champs is the same? if in their utility kit they have better gap closers? LeeSin i feel is one of the remaining few, where this concept of skill shot > knowledge base still applies.

TheOvermind2 votes

no every champion belongs to the 2nd category. Yasuo takes a lot of mechanical skill, but when you look at when do i go in you think exactly like someone like katarina, who takes 0 mechanical skill to play , you wait for the enemy to blow their cc u wait for them to clump up and to get a bit low then you thrwo ur tornado with yasuo and get a penta kill. or go in with kat for an ulti and then resets.

redniwediS6 votes

Yasuo and Katarina get their difficulty from pressing buttons quickly.

Annie and Garen get their difficulty from being in the right place at the right time.

All champions take a bit of both, but one is primary to the other.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

no every champion belongs to the 2nd category. Yasuo takes a lot of mechanical skill, but when you look at when do i go in you think exactly like someone like katarina, who takes 0 mechanical skill to play , you wait for the enemy to blow their cc u wait for them to clump up and to get a bit low then you thrwo ur tornado with yasuo and get a penta kill. or go in with kat for an ulti and then resets.

I dont understand what you mean

Since I played all champions good ammount of time (Except Jhin) I can tell what champions are hard to master

Yasuo is definetly in top 5 hardest champions to master Katarina is not far of I would say in top 20 hardest champions to master

Just the fact that katarina W and E has no cast time is huge. You are perfect katarina if you can kill an entire enemy team in 0,5 seconds.

I have seen a Script katarina once. While I always knew that she was hard to master but once I saw sripterina I saw how disgusting champion katarina can be ... I cant even describe she was jsut instakilling entire teams.. Humans cant even reach her skillcap in terms of speed..

TacB VIPEREYE1 votes

I think i can speak for this guy when i say:

"If there was a Moba that introduced skill based champs only..... then i wouldn't even play league of legends."

Sorry some thing about insta gibbing me with a warwick is just obnoxious and rage inducing, although i will admit...because warwick is such a shit champ in means he can be out played easily. but still.....

redniwediS2 votes

Interestingly enough I almost only play knowledge based champions. My reaction times are not very good, but when Clairvoyance was a thing was quite good at spotting the enemy jungler while they were clearing. No wards or anything, just guessing with my knowledge of who their champion is, how fast they likely clear, and what camps I've seen that were taken.

I'd rather put my knowledge of the game to the test and call the shots for my friends, who are much better at mechanics than I am.

Saianna7 votes
  1. Linear straightforward champions

I disagree. I'd like to see more simple & linear champions. Ofcourse I wouldn't want them to be too strong.

Anidan11 votes

Sometimes simple is good. Annie is simple, straightforward, but effective. And subjectively, she's fun and adorable. To me, at least.

Mhihnj2 votes

not actually fun playing against her

Jeddy0174 votes

Most champs in the game are not fun to play against (when they're played right).That's not an Annie exclusive feature.

Verdade1 votes

I love playing against Annie as a Vel'koz main. She's just SO HOPELESS. Sitting in brush, trying not to get eaten by my Q or WE, outranged and outdamaged by everything i can throw at her... her only chance is flashing and even that is pretty telegraphed.

Jeddy0172 votes

Yay,you counter picked her,that's great.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

Sometimes simple is good. Annie is simple, straightforward, but effective. And subjectively, she's fun and adorable. To me, at least.

Yes annie is fantastic champion she is viable in low elo i suppose because she is easy to play yet she is viable in high elo because her instant aoe stun in good hands is toxic...

Only problem is that most of people dont think her ulti stun is healthy hopefully it wont get changed because it would ruin the perfect balance annie has atm across all elo ranges

Verdade6 votes

  1. It's not. Its basically same as was before. People just play snowball feast-or-famine champions much more. Zed, Fizz, Thresh, Ezreal, Lucian, Lee sin, LB, Yi and Xin are popular atm., but they can't do anything when behind. Sure, if they manage to get ahead they shine and stomp, but they lose so quickly when behind... Also stalling champions are much less played than before... You don't see Viktor anymore, he can waveclear for days and deny sieges, you don't see huge teamfight comps that win teamfights even when behind... So if everyone picks champions that snowball hard, it's understandable its going to be very one-sided.

  2. No, just no. Have you seen how much can Nautilus, Gragas, Rammus, Malphite endure? They endure way too much even with 5 people piled on them. Everyone, even ADCs are building more defensive items now, Sterak's, Maws... Even QSS is built alot, it was kinda rare to see QSS 2-3 seasons back, but now its in every game...

  3. Wow, this again? In early game, turrets protect you. In late game, you protect turrets. Thats they way it is, the way it always was. If you get dived its your fault in 80% of cases. If there's 2v1 situation and one of your enemies can reset turret aggro/is very tanky, they sure can dive you without problems.

4 and 5) If your enemies don't control lanes they can't push your nexus, or even inhibs if they ace you. If you allow them to control lanes, well its your fault. As for Barons and Drakes, it always was like this...

  1. So what? You're saying there were more complex champions back then? I remember AP Ryze being THE burst mage, then he got reworked into mana tank ryze with insane DPS, both had extremely easy play patterns and were considered faceroll. Now we got combo-based ryze and suddently nobody plays him anymore. Yi, Tryndamere and similar easy to play snowball champions were same back then as they are now. If anything, overall complexity of champion has increased... Also straightforward champions like WW, Garen and Xin are simply one-trick ponies, there's nothing easier than countering them... thats why they can have 60% win rate at bronze/silver, but 45-50% in dia+ and they are not picked at all in LCS. What's going WW do to you? Run, R and Q once its finished, he can't do anything else. If you get QSS, wards, teammates or brain you completely shut him down.
Tobias Brackner2 votes

This this this forever this.

Poske2 votes

{quoted}

  1. It's not. Its basically same as was before. People just play snowball feast-or-famine champions much more. Zed, Fizz, Thresh, Ezreal, Lucian, Lee sin, LB, Yi and Xin are popular atm., but they can't do anything when behind. Sure, if they manage to get ahead they shine and stomp, but they lose so quickly when behind... Also stalling champions are much less played than before... You don't see Viktor anymore, he can waveclear for days and deny sieges, you don't see huge teamfight comps that win teamfights even when behind... So if everyone picks champions that snowball hard, it's understandable its going to be very one-sided.

  2. No, just no. Have you seen how much can Nautilus, Gragas, Rammus, Malphite endure? They endure way too much even with 5 people piled on them. Everyone, even ADCs are building more defensive items now, Sterak's, Maws... Even QSS is built alot, it was kinda rare to see QSS 2-3 seasons back, but now its in every game...

  3. Wow, this again? In early game, turrets protect you. In late game, you protect turrets. Thats they way it is, the way it always was. If you get dived its your fault in 80% of cases. If there's 2v1 situation and one of your enemies can reset turret aggro/is very tanky, they sure can dive you without problems.

4 and 5) If your enemies don't control lanes they can't push your nexus, or even inhibs if they ace you. If you allow them to control lanes, well its your fault. As for Barons and Drakes, it always was like this...

  1. So what? You're saying there were more complex champions back then? I remember AP Ryze being THE burst mage, then he got reworked into mana tank ryze with insane DPS, both had extremely easy play patterns and were considered faceroll. Now we got combo-based ryze and suddently nobody plays him anymore. Yi, Tryndamere and similar easy to play snowball champions were same back then as they are now. If anything, overall complexity of champion has increased... Also straightforward champions like WW, Garen and Xin are simply one-trick ponies, there's nothing easier than countering them... thats why they can have 60% win rate at bronze/silver, but 45-50% in dia+ and they are not picked at all in LCS. What's going WW do to you? Run, R and Q once its finished, he can't do anything else. If you get QSS, wards, teammates or brain you completely shut him down.

Hm lets see

Nope snowball is problematic because of global changes I already mentioned those changes somewhere in this thread so dont want to repeat myself of course there could be more global changes I dont know of which caused snowball

Fizz,lee sin, ezreal and yi are fine if they fall of as long as player knows how to play them.. specially fizz that cant fall of ever

Compared to season 4 and season 3 teamfights are like** 2.5 times shorter** Yes tanks ll normaly die slower. Shimitar was buffed , sterak is buffed, Maw was always good Teamfights last 5 seconds nowdays and are decided in 4 seconds -.-

  1. Nope this season you always protect turrets Btw I am fine with Elise, Pantheon diving like no other.

  2. You cant control lanes that well anymore winning team minions are pushing and if you freeze there is so much enemy can do that it is barely a viable tactic nowdays

Nope new Baron has better game ending influence now that it buffs minions to a problematic state Dragon used to give gold.. gold didnt matter after 50 minutes so no it was not always like this

Dont get me wrong I dont want Dragon going back to giving global gold and what not I just want riot to reduce death timers and find solutions to snowball and out of nowhere comebacks

  1. there were never more complex champions but still I find it funny that champions like nunu xin zhao ww still arent reworked. Ryze rework was fantastic. I have seen people terorizing with this champion Riot did nerf him recently so could be why we you dont see him I would play him if he was still limitless (Refering to a nerf which he received)

So you think its ok for bronze to suffer from 60% winrate ww, xin , yi garen , or whatever champion They need to nerf them but add mechanics

Because only time high elo players ll be able to play them without getting flamed for just picking them is if they are stomping bronze and silver

Yi is good example atm. Barely high elo can handle this champion I cant even imagine what he is doing in low elo atm

Verdade1 votes

Nope snowball is problematic because of global changes I already mentioned those changes somewhere in this thread so dont want to repeat myself of course there could be more global changes I dont know of which caused snowball

Like... back in the old days, Dragon gave global gold. So if you were ahead, you took a dragon and got even more ahead. That was huge snowball mechanic, yet nobody complained. Now it's only first and 5th drake, everything else is irrelevant.

Why do you think everyone bans Tahm, Nautilus, Malphite etc.? They are are high-utility tanks that can fight from behind and win with well placed abilities. Assassins and champions with snowbally patterns don't like that, so they just ban them. This promotes more snowballing...

You cant control lanes that well anymore winning team minions are pushing and if you freeze there is so much enemy can do that it is barely a viable tactic nowdays

What? WHAT!? There's ZZrot in almost every game, that thing is just too good right now. It pushes turrets like hell, can defend pretty well too... also it takes quite a time to destroy it... I've seen mid laners build Banner when facing AP champions on mid, because they just can use it on siege minion and roam, while enemy has to kill it or it pushes a turret. Banner gives AP, MR and CDR, what else does mid mage need? In lategame one good banner minion can push down 2 turrets if timed well enough

Nope new Baron has better game ending influence now that it buffs minions to a problematic state

Baron giving push power is the only way to break huge defensive comps. Otherwise you could just pick 5 champions with waveclear and defend for days while enemy can't do a thing. It's a good thing.

So you think its ok for bronze to suffer from 60% winrate ww, xin , yi garen , or whatever champion They need to nerf them but add mechanics

Because only time high elo players ll be able to play them without getting flamed for just picking them is if they are stomping bronze and silver

Yi is good example atm. Barely high elo can handle this champion I cant even imagine what he is doing in low elo atm

In your last 20 games you played exactly 2 times with/against Yi. One Yi had win, the other one lost. That's about it.

Also, in your original post you were contradicting yourself... saying snowball is way too easy, yet complaning someone made a comeback in late game. WTF?

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

Like... back in the old days, Dragon gave global gold. So if you were ahead, you took a dragon and got even more ahead. That was huge snowball mechanic, yet nobody complained. Now it's only first and 5th drake, everything else is irrelevant.

Dragon has many issues. 5th stacks in a first place is to much for such short games nowdays. First dragon and third dragon are really snowbally more snowbally then old dragon giving global gold. But yeah I would prefer gaining gold any day over 2th and 4th buff in the end it almost evens out but the thing is old dragon givin gold became useless in lategame while this dragon never ll

Snowball is insane because of 10 diffrent global changes . Not just dragon changes. Dragon changes just increased the snowball lightly

Why do you think everyone bans Tahm, Nautilus, Malphite etc.? They are are high-utility tanks that can fight from behind and win with well placed abilities. Assassins and champions with snowbally patterns don't like that, so they just ban them. This promotes more snowballing...

That promotes to minor snowballing. You cant blame champions for snowball its always** global changes **

What? WHAT!? There's ZZrot in almost every game, that thing is just too good right now. It pushes turrets like hell, can defend pretty well too... also it takes quite a time to destroy it... I have been using zzrot consistently before it became a thing. Eh cool item it rarely takes down a turret actually but atleast it makes pressure and generates gold

I've seen mid laners build Banner when facing AP champions on mid, because they just can use it on siege minion and roam, while enemy has to kill it or it pushes a turret. Banner gives AP, MR and CDR, what else does mid mage need? In lategame one good banner minion can push down 2 turrets if timed well enough

You saw Bad midlaners

Baron giving push power is the only way to break huge defensive comps. Otherwise you could just pick 5 champions with waveclear and defend for days while enemy can't do a thing. It's a good thing.

Baron is one of the reasons why snowball increased I just want for riot to find a way to reduce the snowball. I like the baron buff

They need to nerf them but add mechanics

Because only time high elo players ll be able to play them without getting flamed for just picking them is if they are stomping bronze and silver

Yi is good example atm. Barely high elo can handle this champion I cant even imagine what he is doing in low elo atm

In your last 20 games you played exactly 2 times with/against Yi. One Yi had win, the other one lost. That's about it.

Also, in your original post you were contradicting yourself... saying snowball is way too easy, yet complaning someone made a comeback in late game. WTF?

Sire Hippington5 votes

As another veteran player, i fully agree. Though i would say that 1, 2 ,3 and 5 all are caused by an overabundance of damage, especially on ranged/mobile champs. Another huge problem is the recent philospohy on champ design with way exegerated strengths/weaknesses, creating massive gaps between best/worst case scenarios for champs. The massive lack of vision also is a major factor of whats going wrong this season. On top of that comes a compareable bad champion balance, we rarly had so many champs above 54% or below 46% winrate as we have since the preseason.

chipndip12 votes

  1. Honestly, this is a problem with specific champions (like Yi) more than the game as a whole. Snowballing in general isn't nearly as bad as most people make it out to be in most cases. Not all, cause some champs (like Kog'Maw) get ridiculous really fast out of nowhere. But for the most part, it's fine unless you messed up THAT bad.

  2. If you lower damage output now, you'll just increase the value of marksmen in general indirectly because they do sustained damage, so all they need is one or two more autos. Also, more tanks. So games will be tons of tanks who do damage through surviving to do repeated spell rotations and marksmen since they do damage through just mashing right clicks. And a support. No, don't lower damage output.

  3. Towers aren't gonna suddenly turn into 3-phase bosses out of nowhere. Once a game gets to 30 minutes or so...it's honestly not a bad thing if the enemy team gets an ace, knocks your inhib tower down with a good wave or so, and ends the game. People need to be more wary of making mistakes. Didn't people all hoot and holler when Dunkey said this game doesn't reward players that perfect playing it because it holds the loser's hand and punishes those that try to actively win? Riot probably took that to heart, because a lot of changes here support taking action to get more mileage when you can before getting shut down.

  4. Similar to 3. People have been whining about short games and long death timers, but I don't see major issue with it. Basically, Riot's power-shifting how the game flows.

  • If you get fed, you're now the run-away snowball. Towers aren't as strong, there's a new objective on the map, and there's still 5 enemies that can't stand up to you alone. It's your job to take as much as you can from the enemy, from drags/heralds/barons to turrets to lives, without dying.

  • If you're being terrorized by someone that's fed, you're now doing damage control. However, that guy has a bounty + a global bounty + as you rise in level, your death timer gets comparatively longer than everyone else's and you give more exp if the person that killed you is lower level than you. This means that not only can you get yourself good gold from killing him once or twice (cause it doesn't hard reset your bounty when you die now), but that guy's out of the game longer than his team mates will be, giving you longer windows to not have to deal with him being on the map ready to kill you for free. As an added bonus, you probably leveled up. That's a lot of benefit from a single shut down. You gotta work for it.

With these two sides of the same coin in mind, this promotes coordinating to obtain shut downs to bounce the losing team back into the game. On the winning side, it promotes coordinating so you can stomp out the losing side without getting shut down, decisively crushing all dreams for coming back before they can begin to come to fruition. Whichever side wins out depends on who realizes this and works towards it. This isn't bad design. It merely exposes those that depended that hand-holding, slow, "Wait till late game" meta from season 5 before the juggernaut patch hit.

  1. By 35 to 40 minutes it shouldn't take multiple team fights to make major gains in ending the match. You've been playing one match for the better half of an hour already. Like, put some of this shit into perspective...

  2. This, I agree on. I make posts on some of these champ kit designs, but they never gain much traction or spark much discussion unless it was preluded with something that could be spun into Riot hate. The ideal here is that, even with simpler champions, Riot should be able to design kits that can be viable without being toxic to solo queue. Kits that rely too much on numbers because they have nothing else to offer outside of numbers basically have to be made weak otherwise they're just oppressive, but that makes them...weak. Like...when last was Illaoi a thing? After all that whining about her damage, when have we last seen Illaoi?

Jonx PLS2 votes

one) fair

two) Don't agree because I am one of those ad carries but I can understand your position.

three) towers are absolute pushovers far before 30 minutes. right now the easiest way to win the game is to gank bot when they hit around level 7 with mid and jungle. You can kill both opponents with the four man and get the turret instantly because it only has 30 armour (down for 100 last season). then you can take your four man to mid and kill the the mid and get that turret to (for the same reason) but then unless the enemy jungle and top respond instantly you can get the second turret for free as well because the have 0 armour until 15 minutes. Base turrets have 0 armour until 30 minutes. turrets are a joke right now.

four) Short games are fine but the game hasn't been tuned to it. Late game champions all get the shaft (except the ones who can abuse rageblade to become early/mid game champions like Jax and Kog) To the best of my knowledge the only thing done to help late game champions reach their build faster (to equal out to the faster games) is the passive gold increase which only amounts to about 200-300 gold at 30 minutes.

five) This is a fine point (although I never minded long games. Hell football takes like 3 hours to play a regulation game) but when at 29 minutes the death timers are 20 seconds and at 30 they are 40 seconds its obvious that this is not a natural progression of the game but a brick wall to make sure the game ends now. Admittedly this is the least of my problems with the current state of the game.

six) those champs are all perfectly fine, but they are overtuned at the moment. New players need champs they can learn on.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

one) fair

two) Don't agree because I am one of those ad carries but I can understand your position.

three) towers are absolute pushovers far before 30 minutes. right now the easiest way to win the game is to gank bot when they hit around level 7 with mid and jungle. You can kill both opponents with the four man and get the turret instantly because it only has 30 armour (down for 100 last season). then you can take your four man to mid and kill the the mid and get that turret to (for the same reason) but then unless the enemy jungle and top respond instantly you can get the second turret for free as well because the have 0 armour until 15 minutes. Base turrets have 0 armour until 30 minutes. turrets are a joke right now.

four) Short games are fine but the game hasn't been tuned to it. Late game champions all get the shaft (except the ones who can abuse rageblade to become early/mid game champions like Jax and Kog) To the best of my knowledge the only thing done to help late game champions reach their build faster (to equal out to the faster games) is the passive gold increase which only amounts to about 200-300 gold at 30 minutes.

five) This is a fine point (although I never minded long games. Hell football takes like 3 hours to play a regulation game) but when at 29 minutes the death timers are 20 seconds and at 30 they are 40 seconds its obvious that this is not a natural progression of the game but a brick wall to make sure the game ends now. Admittedly this is the least of my problems with the current state of the game.

six) those champs are all perfectly fine, but they are overtuned at the moment. New players need champs they can learn on.

Homeguard buff is the reason why we have wierd death timers...

** they can make it so that for every inhibitor down Homeguard speed is reduced a bit. And when you destroy the inhibitor you automaticly remove the homeguard buff from enemies **

I think we could have normal death timers with that. Besides I have lost quite a few games where my team doesnt really overextend we just take the inhibitor down and 1 second laters they rush us with homeguards and take game. So those scenarious wouldnt happen because us killing the inhibitor would imedieatly remove their speed from homeguard buff while they are sprinting to us

Poske3 votes

{quoted}

  1. Honestly, this is a problem with specific champions (like Yi) more than the game as a whole. Snowballing in general isn't nearly as bad as most people make it out to be in most cases. Not all, cause some champs (like Kog'Maw) get ridiculous really fast out of nowhere. But for the most part, it's fine unless you messed up THAT bad.

  2. If you lower damage output now, you'll just increase the value of marksmen in general indirectly because they do sustained damage, so all they need is one or two more autos. Also, more tanks. So games will be tons of tanks who do damage through surviving to do repeated spell rotations and marksmen since they do damage through just mashing right clicks. And a support. No, don't lower damage output.

  3. Towers aren't gonna suddenly turn into 3-phase bosses out of nowhere. Once a game gets to 30 minutes or so...it's honestly not a bad thing if the enemy team gets an ace, knocks your inhib tower down with a good wave or so, and ends the game. People need to be more wary of making mistakes. Didn't people all hoot and holler when Dunkey said this game doesn't reward players that perfect playing it because it holds the loser's hand and punishes those that try to actively win? Riot probably took that to heart, because a lot of changes here support taking action to get more mileage when you can before getting shut down.

  4. Similar to 3. People have been whining about short games and long death timers, but I don't see major issue with it. Basically, Riot's power-shifting how the game flows.

  • If you get fed, you're now the run-away snowball. Towers aren't as strong, there's a new objective on the map, and there's still 5 enemies that can't stand up to you alone. It's your job to take as much as you can from the enemy, from drags/heralds/barons to turrets to lives, without dying.

  • If you're being terrorized by someone that's fed, you're now doing damage control. However, that guy has a bounty + a global bounty + as you rise in level, your death timer gets comparatively longer than everyone else's and you give more exp if the person that killed you is lower level than you. This means that not only can you get yourself good gold from killing him once or twice (cause it doesn't hard reset your bounty when you die now), but that guy's out of the game longer than his team mates will be, giving you longer windows to not have to deal with him being on the map ready to kill you for free. As an added bonus, you probably leveled up. That's a lot of benefit from a single shut down. You gotta work for it.

With these two sides of the same coin in mind, this promotes coordinating to obtain shut downs to bounce the losing team back into the game. On the winning side, it promotes coordinating so you can stomp out the losing side without getting shut down, decisively crushing all dreams for coming back before they can begin to come to fruition. Whichever side wins out depends on who realizes this and works towards it. This isn't bad design. It merely exposes those that depended that hand-holding, slow, "Wait till late game" meta from season 5 before the juggernaut patch hit.

  1. By 35 to 40 minutes it shouldn't take multiple team fights to make major gains in ending the match. You've been playing one match for the better half of an hour already. Like, put some of this shit into perspective...

  2. This, I agree on. I make posts on some of these champ kit designs, but they never gain much traction or spark much discussion unless it was preluded with something that could be spun into Riot hate. The ideal here is that, even with simpler champions, Riot should be able to design kits that can be viable without being toxic to solo queue. Kits that rely too much on numbers because they have nothing else to offer outside of numbers basically have to be made weak otherwise they're just oppressive, but that makes them...weak. Like...when last was Illaoi a thing? After all that whining about her damage, when have we last seen Illaoi?

  1. Snowball is high because of ** global changes** not because of specific champions Some Recent Riot changes which increased snowball -firstblood is back to 400 gold -Inhibitors are dead for 1 minute longer. This was added during last preaseason I believe -Death timers -More resources to abuse if you have lead -Dragon is always relevant because he doesnt grant gold anymore. While in season2 dragon became irelevant in 50+ minute games -Baron is more snowbally -Most importantly towers are worthless on so many way -Also winning team has stronger minions. I actually think this is a good change eventhough it does help snowball

  2. Nah lowering damage output would mean mages fighters supports etc can actually use their ability rotations more then once per teamfight. Longer teamfights = more fun and better strategy. I dont like seeing teamfights being decided in first 3 seconds unless its amazing wombo combo

  3. No offense as much as I like dunkey he acted like a fking crybaby who expects privileges while Riot said that every played is equal before tribunal or whatever banning system we have now. Dunkey was basicly crying because there are players like malphite who are losing the game on purpose. It has nothing to do with anything you think its the problem of intentional feeding and the fact that riot wasnt tracking those type and similar afk at fountain players

  4. None wanted shorter games. Those few who did are regretting it now. And even in season 4 we were unhappy with snowbal l Guess what now the snowball is even stronger but hey atleast there are those unfair unrealistic comebacks where losing team can take entire game after 1 good teamfight after 40 minutes

None asked for the comebacks where losing team sudendly wins teamfight with 2 people and suddendly those 2 players take your nexus down eventhough you had Every single tower up. But no they can just push mid take 3 towers > inh > 2 towers > nexus and they actually still have 10 seconds to work with to disrespect or whatever...

We just wanted better comeback potentional Not stronger comebacks

chipndip12 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L45bEjf7,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-03-08T11:49:19.460+0000)

  1. Snowball is high because of ** global changes** not because of specific champions Some Recent Riot changes which increased snowball -firstblood is back to 400 gold -Inhibitors are dead for 1 minute longer. This was added during last preaseason I believe -Death timers -More resources to abuse if you have lead -Dragon is always relevant because he doesnt grant gold anymore. While in season2 dragon became irelevant in 50+ minute games -Baron is more snowbally -Most importantly towers are worthless on so many way -Also winning team has stronger minions. I actually think this is a good change eventhough it does help snowball

Well yea, snowballing is more noticeable, but do note that people were complaining for more exciting games. If we want more exciting games, someone's gotta get strong off of kills or else everyone's just gonna farm. So they upped the reward for landing kills. As for my specific sentence, I didn't say that specific champs are the only ones that snowball. I said that, in the case of a snowball, specific champs make the game too difficult given the mileage they got. Something like Yi or Kog getting early kills can easily end the whole game if they play right. THAT is the problem I see, not the increased reward for killing people, seeing how it entices people to harass and aim for kills more.

  1. Nah lowering damage output would mean mages fighters supports etc can actually use their ability rotations more then once per teamfight. Longer teamfights = more fun and better strategy. I dont like seeing teamfights being decided in first 3 seconds unless its amazing wombo combo

No, globally lower damage would just invalidate the assassin role for the second time. Early game fighters would also fall off harder since the point of them is to start up an early snowball and make it last into later stages of the game. Marksmen would be annoying as shit. Mages with more sustainable damage would outclass burstier mages and ap assassins. Janna would become unstoppable since she'd have EVEN MORE TIME to peel people. It's really just a bad idea.

  1. No offense as much as I like dunkey he acted like a fking crybaby who expects privileges while Riot said that every played is equal before tribunal or whatever banning system we have now. Dunkey was basicly crying because there are players like malphite who are losing the game on purpose. It has nothing to do with anything you think its the problem of intentional feeding and the fact that riot wasnt tracking those type and similar afk at fountain players

That wasn't the point of the reference. The point was the critique of the game he gave during that vid, which I found a good deal of people quoting and agreeing with at the time. And, to be fair, they weren't all that bad points. Season 5 was a shit ton of farming and punishing the guy that did well early by scaling in late and invalidating everything he did up to that point. I can't even remember the amount of times I'd feel like we were doing well for the first 20 minutes, only to have the enemy last, out-scale, and just run me over. Or we'd try to mount a comeback and the enemy would be this impenetrable wall that I couldn't knock down. Yea, people play safer now, but it's possible to get some mileage and do some damage while you're ahead now. There are other problems, sure, but this new approach on the game I actually agree with. There needs to be more reward for kills and early-game aggression. Not every game HAS to go to 40+ minutes. Hell, I still get a good deal of games that get to around that mark regardless. Thus, I'm honestly content.

  1. None wanted shorter games. Those few who did are regretting it now.

Don't speak for everyone. The forums are ALWAYS filled with nay-sayers and whiners. I didn't necessarily want shorter games before, but I'll gladly take this over shoving my face in with Sejuani, Leona, Cho'Gath, and Maoki with an adc like what happened in season 5.

Guess what now the snowball is even stronger but hey atleast there are those unfair unrealistic comebacks where losing team can take entire game after 1 good teamfight after 40 minutes

Literally hasn't changed from when I started playing this game a year ago...

None asked for the comebacks where losing team sudendly wins teamfight with 2 people and suddendly those 2 players take your nexus down eventhough you had Every single tower up. But no they can just push mid take 3 towers > inh > 2 towers > nexus and they actually still have 10 seconds to work with to disrespect or whatever...

At 40 minutes, ANYTHING can cost you the game. This isn't even new. The NEW thing is that if you fuck up a team fight that bad (0-1:5 ace in their favor), you could take some major damage or even straight up lose depending on what they got on their side.

We just wanted better comeback potentional Not stronger comebacks

I don't think you know what you want. If you have better comeback potential, you're gonna see the result of that in the comeback. If that happened at 40 minutes, you'll see how it happens. At 30? You'll see how it happens. You can't whine for better comeback potential, yet whine about how that comes about. When potential for comebacks increases, the extremes of potential comebacks increases too. I think what people really want is to feel like the match was close, but not be denied their win at the end. It's bullshit if they rob you of your win, but it isn't bad if they make you feel like you worked for it before you finish them off. Kind of selfish to me.

Poske2 votes

{quoted}

Well yea, snowballing is more noticeable, but do note that people were complaining for more exciting games. If we want more exciting games, someone's gotta get strong off of kills or else everyone's just gonna farm. So they upped the reward for landing kills. As for my specific sentence, I didn't say that specific champs are the only ones that snowball. I said that, in the case of a snowball, specific champs make the game too difficult given the mileage they got. Something like Yi or Kog getting early kills can easily end the whole game if they play right. THAT is the problem I see, not the increased reward for killing people, seeing how it entices people to harass and aim for kills more.

No, globally lower damage would just invalidate the assassin role for the second time. Early game fighters would also fall off harder since the point of them is to start up an early snowball and make it last into later stages of the game. Marksmen would be annoying as shit. Mages with more sustainable damage would outclass burstier mages and ap assassins. Janna would become unstoppable since she'd have EVEN MORE TIME to peel people. It's really just a bad idea.

That wasn't the point of the reference. The point was the critique of the game he gave during that vid, which I found a good deal of people quoting and agreeing with at the time. And, to be fair, they weren't all that bad points. Season 5 was a shit ton of farming and punishing the guy that did well early by scaling in late and invalidating everything he did up to that point. I can't even remember the amount of times I'd feel like we were doing well for the first 20 minutes, only to have the enemy last, out-scale, and just run me over. Or we'd try to mount a comeback and the enemy would be this impenetrable wall that I couldn't knock down. Yea, people play safer now, but it's possible to get some mileage and do some damage while you're ahead now. There are other problems, sure, but this new approach on the game I actually agree with. There needs to be more reward for kills and early-game aggression. Not every game HAS to go to 40+ minutes. Hell, I still get a good deal of games that get to around that mark regardless. Thus, I'm honestly content.

Don't speak for everyone. The forums are ALWAYS filled with nay-sayers and whiners. I didn't necessarily want shorter games before, but I'll gladly take this over shoving my face in with Sejuani, Leona, Cho'Gath, and Maoki with an adc like what happened in season 5.

Literally hasn't changed from when I started playing this game a year ago...

At 40 minutes, ANYTHING can cost you the game. This isn't even new. The NEW thing is that if you fuck up a team fight that bad (0-1:5 ace in their favor), you could take some major damage or even straight up lose depending on what they got on their side.

I don't think you know what you want. If you have better comeback potential, you're gonna see the result of that in the comeback. If that happened at 40 minutes, you'll see how it happens. At 30? You'll see how it happens. You can't whine for better comeback potential, yet whine about how that comes about. When potential for comebacks increases, the extremes of potential comebacks increases too. I think what people really want is to feel like the match was close, but not be denied their win at the end. It's bullshit if they rob you of your win, but it isn't bad if they make you feel like you worked for it before you finish them off. Kind of selfish to me.

First of all you started playing this game year ago? Mate you lack experience take it from a person who experienced all seasons

  1. Have you seen lcs LATELY? None dares to do anything because of no vision and death timers. If you think that the game is full of fights at the moment you are so wrong. "Lower elo you are more fights / kills you ll see "

  2. I dont remember assassins being bad in tank meta.Nerfed Cinderhulk meta was one of the most balanced patches we had. I main mid and lots of assassins . There were times when individual assassins were weak because of Riot direct nerfs but never as a whole They were bad because of global changes I Just didnt experience this since season1

Globaly nerfing damage / buffing tankiness = just means longer teamfights none would mind this

  1. Season 5 is bad example of balance apart from cinderhulk area Most of the changes which caused increased snowball happend in preaseason 5

I ll try to explain it to you

Comebacks and snowball was perfect in season 4 There were other issues of course but this part was really well defined and balanced

Comebacks were almost impossible in season 5 but snowball was weak despite that

Noways Snowball is stronger then it ever was and then there are wierd WTF comebacks because in 40 minute game ANY LEAD YOUR TEAM HAD doesnt matter since who ever wins next fight with 2 people standing WINS THE GAME. And that frustrating

IT DOESNT MATTER HOW WELL YOU DID BEFORE THOSE 40 MINUTES AND IT DOESNT MATTER HOW BAD THE ENEMY TEAM IS IF THEY JUST PLAY IT OUT CORRECTLY ONCE IN A 40 MINUTE GAME

Comeback potentional is low But when it does happend and a losing team wins a teamfight THEY have enough time to take one inh and few towers you might wonder? Nope they have enough time to destroy 10 towers 15 inhs and 2 NEXUSES NOTE "SMALL" HYPERBOLE

So hopefully now you understand what I mean when I say We want more comebacks but in the same time we do not think its ok for a losing team to win a game of 1 teamfight Because nowdays they will just take 7371 towers 132 inhs and nexus while you are dead

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L45bEjf7,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2016-03-08T20:52:48.521+0000)

First of all you started playing this game year ago? Mate you lack experience take it from a person who experienced all seasons

  1. Have you seen lcs LATELY? None dares to do anything because of no vision and death timers. If you think that the game is full of fights at the moment you are so wrong. "Lower elo you are more fights / kills you ll see "

That's obviously going to happen. Pro play in ANY game is ultimately about mileage/risk. The key difference is that MOBAs integrate snowballing mechanics and design choices that make it harder to justify risk.

If you're playing a fighting game, people fish for confirms off of lighter hits before converting that confirming hit into a full-on combo. Now, confirming off of a heavier attack leads to more damage because most fighting games scale down damage as you increase the number of moves involved in your combo, but most of the time people don't go for those. Why? Because it's risky. It's dangerous. Still, you'll see riskier plays in other genres more often than this one because THIS game has a huge punishment tied into dying even once or twice. Even if they attempt to add more incentive to go for offense in general, pro play will always be about measuring risk versus reward.

Which sort of leads into the whole warding thing. Like I've always said: Less vision is for the losing side, and more vision is for the winning side. The winning side doesn't care if the enemy has wards because as long as they themselves can see, they'll just run them over. The losing side wouldn't be as upset about lacking vision so long as the enemy did too because they can attempt to catch them off-guard (not an easy feat, but still way easier than if vision was plentiful). If the whole map is lit up, how do you work a bad situation into a good one? The enemy will ALWAYS see you.

  1. I dont remember assassins being bad in tank meta.

Well they were. Season 5 had just non-stop Sej/Cho whining and assassins playing the victim card while no one cared because squishy mage/adc players have an eternal blood feud with assassins.

Nerfed Cinderhulk meta was one of the most balanced patches we had. I main mid and lots of assassins . There were times when individual assassins were weak because of Riot direct nerfs but never as a whole They were bad because of global changes I Just didnt experience this since season1

The problem with assassins during that time was that, well...everyone was playing tanks. Who do you assassinate? If it's the adc, congrats...your champion is now literally degraded to hunting one person on the map before getting cc locked and dick kicked. Early game champs were also lacking because once everyone started getting tanky, they didn't offer anything anymore. Everyone would constantly bitch and moan if their support didn't pick a tank option. I'm not saying the game's perfect now, but the game wasn't perfect back then either. EVERYTHING revolved around scaling your numbers to 40 minutes in, and the proceedings before then were meaningless unless it was Jinx/Vayne/Tristana getting fed.

Globaly nerfing damage / buffing tankiness = just means longer teamfights none would mind this

Yes, yes people would. Assassins would hate this. Early game champs would hate this. Mage supports would hate this. Burst-oriented mages would hate this. Not everyone likes having tanks trample them underfoot.

  1. Season 5 is bad example of balance apart from cinderhulk area Most of the changes which caused increased snowball happend in preaseason 5

I ll try to explain it to you

Comebacks and snowball was perfect in season 4 There were other issues of course but this part was really well defined and balanced

Well, I first started when season 4 was out the door, so I wouldn't know. All I know is that I stepped in when Katarina was beginning to make her way out.

Comebacks were almost impossible in season 5 but snowball was weak despite that

Save Vayne/Jinx/Trist, but yea, for the most part...until Devourer came out and that was horrible...

Noways Snowball is stronger then it ever was and then there are wierd WTF comebacks because in 40 minute game ANY LEAD YOUR TEAM HAD doesnt matter since who ever wins next fight with 2 people standing WINS THE GAME. And that frustrating

Like, here's my thing though:

40 minutes in (late game) was always like that. It was like this before, and it's gonna be like in the future. If you don't want wild swings in game outcomes, you end the match earlier. If you want to make the dream real off of one more play, you survive to late and make that one fight count. This isn't a major concern because that's how this game is.

IT DOESNT MATTER HOW WELL YOU DID BEFORE THOSE 40 MINUTES AND IT DOESNT MATTER HOW BAD THE ENEMY TEAM IS IF THEY JUST PLAY IT OUT CORRECTLY ONCE IN A 40 MINUTE GAME

So if you're significantly better, end it early and avoid that. The changes made this season are specifically designed to address THIS STATEMENT. Take some turrets, keep working them down, and finish them off before they can try for that late-game Baron pit team fight.

From how I see it, there are early, mid, and late game champs, right? So ending the match by early game, mid game, or late game should all be viable strategies, or else there's no point in the champs that are left out. Right now, games end on a relatively spread from about 25 - 40 minutes. That isn't too bad really.

Comeback potentional is low But when it does happend and a losing team wins a teamfight THEY have enough time to take one inh and few towers you might wonder? Nope they have enough time to destroy 10 towers 15 inhs and 2 NEXUSES NOTE "SMALL" HYPERBOLE

At 40 minutes that'd never surprise me. Not last year. Not this year.

So hopefully now you understand what I mean when I say We want more comebacks but in the same time we do not think its ok for a losing team to win a game of 1 teamfight Because nowdays they will just take 7371 towers 132 inhs and nexus while you are dead

This is primarily a personal problem then. Once you hit late game, a single team fight can always end you. It doesn't matter if we're talking about one season or the other, because death timers scale up as time goes on. If you get aced hard at 40 minutes, I'd honestly be surprised if you didn't lose. Like, it's been almost an hour. How long should thing keep going on!?

The game needs changes, yea, and I don't agree with everything (Sated Devourer) they added into the game, but I think people do a lot of complaining without really look at things objectively. A lot of whining based on "how they feel" or nostalgia from seasons past when the meta wasn't as developed and everyone was significantly less knowledgeable about the game as a whole.

Poske1 votes

Lets go from the begining so you are playing this game only since season 5 oh well

Lets try to agree on some stuff because It seems that we cant agree on anything I ll just say some statements can you confirm or whatever?

  • Are you happy with current snowball? I think its to high since I experienced weaker snowball and I know majority enjoyed it you can see that by the number of upvotes on this thread..

  • Are you happy with current death timers? They dont even scale how they should because of homeguard buff. I obviously think they are to long

  • Do you think teamfights should last longer? I used to experience 2.5 times longer teamfights and when you search on youtube any old Retired Professional League player montage and see how many much more depth teamfights used to have you might see what I mean

  • Do you think current comebacks are healthy? I have never seen more toxic comebacks then in last few days And I could never Imagine or see myself whining about comebacks since they were one of the most enjoyable experiences. It feels like I am cheating when I make a comeback nowdays since we crush so many structures take down the nexus and most of enemies are still dead for next 15 seconds. It doesnt even feel like we were just better or stronger it just feels like they got cheated by a system

  • Are you happy with agression on lcs? For me it seems like everyone is afraid to do anything because the game is just to punishing and it doesnt even make the game look strategic. Whoever catches someone of guard in 30+ minutes wins the game thats what it comes down to. seeing 5 kills in a 35 minute game on lcs is boring.

Assassains are champions who just capitalize on mistakes and oportunities . Your assumption that Tanks counter entire class of assassains is silly and I have no idea what makes you think so

Pick Mundo And I ll pick le bl Good luck saving anyone in your team Hint you wouldnt be able to I have seen that scenario dozen of times. Not to mention that Le bl has couple of combos which make Mundo cry

There are tanks who are good against assassins but there are tanks who are absolutely worthless against assassins like Mundo. Volibear illaoi rammus ( to an extent) etc

I have heard people saying that ADC exist to counter tanks and then I heard the exact opposite thing for example Lots of assassins have %hp damage true damage and what not. There is always lastwhisper to keep tanks in check

**I didnt have any trouble playing assassins during any kind of no 5 sec teamfight meta **. This on paper sounds really unrealistic but thats how it is

Also Mages wouldnt be weaker if teamfights were longer because common sense. Same thing is with ap supports like zyra

Assassins want to pick of (Best example is ad rengar) Longer teamfights wouldnt suddendly mean that they cant pick of

Keep in mind I want damage across the board down or tankiness across the board up That doesnt just effect tanksm who knows yasuo / riven might live longer then 2 seconds then (Thats how it feels teamfighting with light fighters atm)

And this is the reason why we are seeing tank akali, tank fiora, tank ekko Because damage is just to high and none wants to explode. It all comes down to who can explode targets in a toxic way nowdays. Yi, rengar, zed, talon heck even shaco

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L45bEjf7,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-09T01:05:27.497+0000)

Lets go from the begining so you are playing this game only since season 5 oh well

Lets try to agree on some stuff because It seems that we cant agree on anything I ll just say some statements can you confirm or whatever?

Alright.

  • Are you happy with current snowball? I think its to high since I experienced weaker snowball and I know majority enjoyed it you can see that by the number of upvotes on this thread..

In general, it's fine, but there are specific cases where it's insanely stupid. Those specific champions need to be looked into.

  • Are you happy with current death timers? They dont even scale how they should because of homeguard buff. I obviously think they are to long

I'm honestly fine with them. If all my games were done by 20 minutes like the preseason, I'd be pissed, but it seems like Riot's fixed things up so games have more varied end times. So I'm fine with the timers.

  • Do you think teamfights should last longer? I used to experience 2.5 times longer teamfights and when you search on youtube any old Retired Professional League player montage and see how many much more depth teamfights used to have you might see what I mean

Length of a team fight =/= depth of a team fight. Honestly, though, I'm not too sure either way on this one. Main concern here is that the longer the team fight, the longer passive utility supports like Janna and Soraka have to work, making them indirectly more toxic to the game.

  • Do you think current comebacks are healthy? I have never seen more toxic comebacks then in last few days And I could never Imagine or see myself whining about comebacks since they were one of the most enjoyable experiences. It feels like I am cheating when I make a comeback nowdays since we crush so many structures take down the nexus and most of enemies are still dead for next 15 seconds. It doesnt even feel like we were just better or stronger it just feels like they got cheated by a system

They're fine in my eyes. Most of the time these types of things happen well after 30 minutes. By then, you should expect major swings like these and play accordingly.

  • Are you happy with agression on lcs? For me it seems like everyone is afraid to do anything because the game is just to punishing and it doesnt even make the game look strategic. Whoever catches someone of guard in 30+ minutes wins the game thats what it comes down to. seeing 5 kills in a 35 minute game on lcs is boring.

As much as I'd like more action in the LCS, I don't see what Riot could do to make that happen. Pro play in any game is always going to be about taking the safer route. Otherwise you're basically saying it's good game design to make a game where players regularly piss caution and decision-making into the wind. Not a good idea. The only other method is to make landing kills more enticing to get players to itch for them more while still displaying solid decision-making since kills aren't taking priority over smart play, but I don't see what more they can do.

Assassains are champions who just capitalize on mistakes and oportunities . Your assumption that Tanks counter entire class of assassains is silly and I have no idea what makes you think so

Because assassins are only good for one rotation of skills. Now, they can still do some stuff, but their major advantage lies in dealing heavy amounts of damage to valuable and vulnerable targets. Tanks aren't that. If the meta's filled with tanks, what's an assassin good for that another tank can't do well enough while being 3 times tankier?

There are tanks who are good against assassins but there are tanks who are absolutely worthless against assassins like Mundo. Volibear illaoi rammus ( to an extent) etc

Main issue is that assassins tend to be early/mid-game investments that get rolling off of roaming and insta-gibbing squishies and then coast into the late game if need be. If you have more tankier targets, you can't land your kills as well as you otherwise would. This keeps assassins from getting fed and coasting like they want to, so they'll fall off faster. I imagine you can counter-play this to an extent, since that's part of what LoL is founded on, but the general match-up is that tankier opponents and comps are not good for assassins.

I have heard people saying that ADC exist to counter tanks and then I heard the exact opposite thing for example

It's more like marksmen are your best bet for killing tanks since their damage doesn't rely on cds. If they get caught, even if it's a tank, they're in trouble. Very dependent class of champs.

Lots of assassins have %hp damage true damage and what not. There is always lastwhisper to keep tanks in check

I honestly don't see many assassins build LDR or Mortal Reminder. Just Ghostblade and Duskblade. Still doesn't really tip the scales in the assassin's favor, but that's fine since they're already strong against marksmen and mages, so they gotta have a bad match-up somewhere.

**I didnt have any trouble playing assassins during any kind of no 5 sec teamfight meta **. This on paper sounds really unrealistic but thats how it is

I mean, you're Diamond. I imagine you've figured things out enough to do what you do best even when things may be unfavorable, right?

Also Mages wouldnt be weaker if teamfights were longer because common sense. Same thing is with ap supports like zyra

Depends on the mage. Some would be fine. Some would loathe the day. Mage supports, however, would just loathe the day.

Assassins want to pick of (Best example is ad rengar) Longer teamfights wouldnt suddendly mean that they cant pick of

Well, that's exactly what that means. If everyone takes less damage, that means assassins have to be more fed to get the same 100 -> 0 spell rotations they want. So unless they just got even more fed somehow, somewhere, there's no way they'd be able to burst someone down just as efficiently. If they do land the pick, they basically win the fight because they have longer to coordinate their movements in what is now a 4v5.

Keep in mind I want damage across the board down or tankiness across the board up

Like, there's no way that doesn't negatively effect some class of champions or another in a majorly bad way.

That doesnt just effect tanks who knows yasuo / riven might live longer then 2 seconds then (Thats how it feels teamfighting with light fighters atm)

Riven and Yasuo already have tons of built-in survival tools.

And this is the reason why we are seeing tank akali, tank fiora, tank ekko Because damage is just to high and none wants to explode. It all comes down to who can explode targets in a toxic way nowdays. Yi, rengar, zed, talon heck even shaco

Well, the reason why we're seeing tank Akali/Fio/Ekko is because fighter items are really damn strong. Too much damage and defense are being mixed into items at once. The result is that these guys can just grab a Maw, a T. Hydra, a Sterak's, or whatever, and then have some nice built-in shields and what-not while they can still deal good enough damage. Don't nerf damage across the board more than one would just nerf fighter items...and DMP's slow is sort of unnecessary if I had to be honest...

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

Alright.

In general, it's fine, but there are specific cases where it's insanely stupid. Those specific champions need to be looked into.

I'm honestly fine with them. If all my games were done by 20 minutes like the preseason, I'd be pissed, but it seems like Riot's fixed things up so games have more varied end times. So I'm fine with the timers.

Length of a team fight =/= depth of a team fight. Honestly, though, I'm not too sure either way on this one. Main concern here is that the longer the team fight, the longer passive utility supports like Janna and Soraka have to work, making them indirectly more toxic to the game.

Longer teamfights = more fun maybe I didnt express myself correctly. Nowdays 1 decision can end entire teamfight. Its really unstable

Soraka is support hypercarry she is main focus. Pretty sure she would still get deleted even with damage down across the board downe Janna- Its really hard for me to say if she would be good or bad in longer teamfights. It would just be guessing. I am sure that she would be viable

They're fine in my eyes. Most of the time these types of things happen well after 30 minutes. By then, you should expect major swings like these and play accordingly.

But dont you think the swing is to swingy? Because thats my concern in late game swings were always major ... but nowdays thats amplified. It always ends in nexus going down and it just feels unfair for them to crush so many stuff while we are all dead. It makes me want to use summoner spell revive which is removed.

As much as I'd like more action in the LCS, I don't see what Riot could do to make that happen. Pro play in any game is always going to be about taking the safer route. Otherwise you're basically saying it's good game design to make a game where players regularly piss caution and decision-making into the wind. Not a good idea. The only other method is to make landing kills more enticing to get players to itch for them more while still displaying solid decision-making since kills aren't taking priority over smart play, but I don't see what more they can do.

Well if they fixed problems and concerns I have with League now we would definetly see more action since we saw it in the time when it was like that. Yeah Pro players did improve since then + there are coaches so that could be why games are more passive but still mate the difference is bigger then that

Because assassins are only good for one rotation of skills. Now, they can still do some stuff, but their major advantage lies in dealing heavy amounts of damage to valuable and vulnerable targets. Tanks aren't that. If the meta's filled with tanks, what's an assassin good for that another tank can't do well enough while being 3 times tankier? Really depends on assassin I feel like they all overkill anyway and have extra damage. Kha zix, Katarina, Akali, Yi, Riven, yasuo always have some stuff to do in teamfights

Oh and if you think that riven and yasuo have enough defensive stuff. Try playing them playing light fighters in this meta is kinda sad You normally explode in first 2 seconds unless you outplay really well. They are bad in this meta because damage is all over the place.

I did not say turn League of legends into league of tanks. I said that we should have tankier everyone across the board or lower damage across the board squishy assassins wouldnt mind this as much you would think

If you want to nerf assassins directly then buff supports I would sign buffing supports across the board still any day though. But then again I might be just biased supports help with everything not just against assassins and supports do help assassins to. See my point?

When you are making global changes its hard to say what gets better. Riot failed at this so many times

Main issue is that assassins tend to be early/mid-game investments that get rolling off of roaming and insta-gibbing squishies and then coast into the late game if need be. If you have more tankier targets, you can't land your kills as well as you otherwise would. This keeps assassins from getting fed and coasting like they want to, so they'll fall off faster. I imagine you can counter-play this to an extent, since that's part of what LoL is founded on, but the general match-up is that tankier opponents and comps are not good for assassins.

Really depends on assassin again. Some assassins just go through everything and reach the ADC/mage. Some assassins dont want to teamfight anyway. Some would like tank meta which is not what I was aiming for like Fiora and yeah some assassins specially ones who dont do hybrid damage would get iritated by tanks

It's more like marksmen are your best bet for killing tanks since their damage doesn't rely on cds. If they get caught, even if it's a tank, they're in trouble. Very dependent class of champs. Naut top, Rammus, and malphite are seeing play because game is full of ADC. Stop assuming that entire class is countered by other class

I honestly don't see many assassins build LDR or Mortal Reminder. Just Ghostblade and Duskblade. Still doesn't really tip the scales in the assassin's favor, but that's fine since they're already strong against marksmen and mages, so they gotta have a bad match-up somewhere.

I mean, you're Diamond. I imagine you've figured things out enough to do what you do best even when things may be unfavorable, right?

Eh I guess. Maybe I just didnt notice they were weaker. Or maybe assassins benefit from having tanks on their team to. I do like having a tank in my team if I am assassin since he distracts everything

Depends on the mage. Some would be fine. Some would loathe the day. Mage supports, however, would just loathe the day.

When you say mage supports . You think orianna lulu or zyra velkoz? Orianna was viable across all metas. One of the most balanced champions in the game. I mastered this champion and I am quite certain that her winrate wouldnt change since I saw her in so many different metas

As for LULU that thing can go in 3 lanes . Its already to stronk

Well, that's exactly what that means. If everyone takes less damage, that means assassins have to be more fed to get the same 100 -> 0 spell rotations they want. So unless they just got even more fed somehow, somewhere, there's no way they'd be able to burst someone down just as efficiently. If they do land the pick, they basically win the fight because they have longer to coordinate their movements in what is now a 4v5.

But assassins themself would be tankier. I already said riven and yasuo would like this. I am certain they would like it.

You could argue that assassins value their damage over tankiness but we would have to know in which numbers. maybe its like 60/40

Like, there's no way that doesn't negatively effect some class of champions or another in a majorly bad way.

There is no way that doesnt positively effect almost everything in a good way. Yes new meta would appear it might even have idk Broken lucian tank or something. Everything riot does has negative impact somewhere. What matters is that posivite impact outweights it. Decreasing damage across the board would do way more good then harm. I am 100% certain in that

Riven and Yasuo already have tons of built-in survival tools. Yet they cant live longer then 3 seconds from my experience

Well, the reason why we're seeing tank Akali/Fio/Ekko is because fighter items are really damn strong. Too much damage and defense are being mixed into items at once. The result is that these guys can just grab a Maw, a T. Hydra, a Sterak's, or whatever, and then have some nice built-in shields and what-not while they can still deal good enough damage. Don't nerf damage across the board more than one would just nerf fighter items...and DMP's slow is sort of unnecessary if I had to be honest...

Yes bruiser items are better then ever that helps... I still play ap ekko with rod of ages though

Season 9 Amumu2 votes

  1. yes i agree for the most part. many times its made worse by a champion that has no good counter with your team composition. as an example, there are still quite a few pure tanks that can seemingly out-damage a full mage which seems absurd.

  2. i would say another aspect of this is how much cc there is in the game at the moment.

  3. fully agree, they need to be stronger just in general

  4. this also i feel leads to more snowballing

  5. comebacks now feel very different than they used to. i think part of this is also the towers, since they are so easy to destroy now their priority as an objective can be lessened. long death timers also play into this. since enemies can be gone for a much longer time now, it gives the other team more time to comeback essentially

  6. kind of agree? i suppose it depends. my opinions on those types of champs is kind of hard to describe. as an example, where as normal xin zhao is boring i find ap to be interesting as an odd pick. a lot of them tend to have small aspects of their kit which had the potential for changing builds dramatically. they removed garens crit on e

if i was to add a few:

  1. their seems to be a lack of diversity in builds at the moment. building items is no longer interesting per se

  2. the game seems kind of dull at the moment just in atmosphere, this is brought about both by game play decisions as well as outside factors like lore.

  3. game length overall is too short

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

  1. yes i agree for the most part. many times its made worse by a champion that has no good counter with your team composition. as an example, there are still quite a few pure tanks that can seemingly out-damage a full mage which seems absurd.

  2. i would say another aspect of this is how much cc there is in the game at the moment.

  3. fully agree, they need to be stronger just in general

  4. this also i feel leads to more snowballing

  5. comebacks now feel very different than they used to. i think part of this is also the towers, since they are so easy to destroy now their priority as an objective can be lessened. long death timers also play into this. since enemies can be gone for a much longer time now, it gives the other team more time to comeback essentially

  6. kind of agree? i suppose it depends. my opinions on those types of champs is kind of hard to describe. as an example, where as normal xin zhao is boring i find ap to be interesting as an odd pick. a lot of them tend to have small aspects of their kit which had the potential for changing builds dramatically. they removed garens crit on e

if i was to add a few:

  1. their seems to be a lack of diversity in builds at the moment. building items is no longer interesting per se

  2. the game seems kind of dull at the moment just in atmosphere, this is brought about both by game play decisions as well as outside factors like lore.

  3. game length overall is too short

I agree with most of you said except that

CC isnt really stronger. There are more slows in game but overall hard cc durations and cooldowns are higher then before Remember the 3 second fiddlestick fear, rammus taunt, Le bl silence, kassadin silence, talon silence

** Bassicly there are more slows but hard cc is weaker**

As for item diversity Item diversity is better then it ever was but you cannot build some champions in entirely different way like Ap trist , Ap yi (Actually you could build ap yi not so long ago but thats not really the playstyle I ment)

There are items which need a work though Like Ohmwrecker and new trinity which was reworked to be more of ADC item but it ended up being weaker for those dedicated ADC which where buying it before and pretty much no new ADC is building it. With trinity changes they basicly fked up bruisers while not making ADC any happier as Ezreal main I really hate new trinity ...

thumbnail92 votes

Auto attacking from melee range is cancer but auto attack from 500+ range is balanced.

Logical.

TacB VIPEREYE2 votes

C9 meteos made fun of warwick. warwick, garen, xin are basically champions that people below lvl 30 could play to get a hang of league. They couldnt be anymore NEWB. So when i see people in high silver locking in these champs i almost immediately go on tilt lmao.

Champs that are so mechanically insignificant should just not be powerful, they should be reworked. Riot is getting lazy.

Itadaki Seieki1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L45bEjf7,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-07T21:02:20.478+0000)

**1. Snowball is To high ** Ehm yeah its not fun to get stomped or stomp while your enemies are unable to do anything even if they play out teamfights perfectly

There is a core thing here. Sometimes, people make mistakes. The perfect snowball can end up being wasted because someone got picked out or stayed a moment too soon.

**2. Teamfights are to short (That season 3 - 4 footage looking so good.... ) ** There is just to much damage and burst. I think that solution is quite simple..

They are short because Season 6 is all about big plays and quick games.

3. Towers are boring, pathetic and have low damage All tower tiers feel the same. Even the inhi laser towers are just like previous towers with a "cool" ramping up laser. Children dont even know what is tower anymore they think the are made out of paper oh and I ll just mention this 1 word TOWERDIVES*

Towers are respected, except in Bronze/Silver/Gold, where people assume they don't do a lot. Never underestimate a tower, at all. Disrespecting a tower is expecting to die.

4. Death timers are to high just watch the lcs you ll hear them mention it once every game

Well yeah.

What's the punishment of keeping a game going on for too long? Would you like to spend 15 seconds dead 60 minutes into a game where the enemy team can't end?

If you die late game you should get punished for it, not a slap on the wrist.

**5. Unfair comebacks ** Yeah game is snowbally and on top of that there are wierd unrealistic comebacks? How does that work you might wonder? Well one teamfight in late game (Which is nowdays 35 minutes) basicly decides who can take 25 towers , Baron , Dragon , 3 inhs , and nexus. I dont even feel like I am exaggerating eventhough I am because it is not far off

Not entirely?

There are reasons why people push side lanes and chose to fight middle, or blue team hard pushes bot then contests Baron. So if they LOSE that fight, they have pressure and the enemy team can't punish them that much harder.

**6. Linear straightforward champions ** Xin zhao, Garen , Warwick etc kits are just sad. Their gameplay is even more sad. Its not even fun to watch xin zhao getting outplayed and raped because his kit has 0 mechanics and 0 tools. Even in the patch before where he was considered Ultra over powered he felt worthless in high elo and to easy to handle Just think about this for a second. IN order to see warwick on lcs He needs to have 60% winrate and even then last time he had this he was tier 2 pick

Well, yeah. You can't have League, a free to play game, have all complex champions. You'd scare away the players who are new to the genre of MOBA. It's not hard to learn, but to start off having these simple picks are good for new and old players alike.

New to the scene? Garen might be good if you're into melee.

Played LoL for a while? Garen is a good pick just to relax and enjoy a simpler game.

Xin is a completely different story. The reason why he's handled in high elo is because people KNOW how to stop him. What makes him " Ultra " is the lower tiers who have close to zero knowledge on how to stop him from snowballing hard.

Just my 2 cents I would suggest how to fix each of this problems but we all know how that ends up on boards... Every time someone give specific solution Thumb Downs go on a killing spree even if its good solution

Poske1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bard and Soul,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L45bEjf7,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2016-03-08T22:34:30.664+0000)

There is a core thing here. Sometimes, people make mistakes. The perfect snowball can end up being wasted because someone got picked out or stayed a moment too soon.

There are barely any stops to snowball train nowdays

They are short because Season 6 is all about big plays and quick games. Community doesnt want quick games we were happy with game average game lenght and diversity. I want big plays to If riot would literaly fix all issues I mentioned you would have way more big plays

Towers are respected, except in Bronze/Silver/Gold, where people assume they don't do a lot. Never underestimate a tower, at all. Disrespecting a tower is expecting to die.

I just 1vs1 tower which had half hp as yasuo. I was to bored to wait allied minions. I had 70% hp after it (Did lifesteal of nearby enemy minions with q though)

Well yeah.

What's the punishment of keeping a game going on for too long? Would you like to spend 15 seconds dead 60 minutes into a game where the enemy team can't end?

Nope however if I were making changes 45 seconds would be longest death duration. Well maybe 50. And it wouldnt scale so hard and non linear after 20 minute. I might give extra 2 seconds on death timer to compensate the homeguard buff but nothing more

If you die late game you should get punished for it, not a slap on the wrist.

True but in 99.9% scenarios nowdays that means nexus goes down

Not entirely?

There are reasons why people push side lanes and chose to fight middle, or blue team hard pushes bot then contests Baron. So if they LOSE that fight, they have pressure and the enemy team can't punish them that much harder.

Thats usefull until you reach 40 minutes . Then 2 survivals ll just push mid take 5 towers 1 inh and nexus while having enough time to make a coffee. Punishment is to hard this season basicly

Well, yeah. You can't have League, a free to play game, have all complex champions. You'd scare away the players who are new to the genre of MOBA. It's not hard to learn, but to start off having these simple picks are good for new and old players alike.

I just personaly hate noobfriendly champions I dont even think Noobs like them they all just want to buy lee sin yasuo and zed from my experience (Basicly flashy champs) and they end up buying that noob friendly boring champions because they are 450 ip

New to the scene? Garen might be good if you're into melee.

Played LoL for a while? Garen is a good pick just to relax and enjoy a simpler game.

I couldnt pick him more often then once a year. You would have to pay me and I might leave the game...

Xin is a completely different story. The reason why he's handled in high elo is because people KNOW how to stop him. What makes him " Ultra " is the lower tiers who have close to zero knowledge on how to stop him from snowballing hard.

Your Mate Steve1 votes

Preach brother, PREACH!

MysteriousBootie1 votes

With you all the way with point 2. I really can't stand how fast you can die in this game. It's like you die in 1 hit and there's NO time for micro or counter play, case and point every assassin ever; especially RENGAR.

Point 3 I'm personally REALLY happy with towers atm. If you have turrets that are too strong the game stalls out and that leads to needlessly drawn out, passive, boring games. The WORST THING about league season 4-5 was games taking too long to close out.

As for death timers, if anything I think we should go ahead and remove homeguards, or at least force it to being something you must INVEST IN like before. It makes it harder to exploit killing people to take objectives, thus leading to a drawn out game. IDK I've just played SO MANY 40 minute games in season 5 it kinda killed my soul, and I don't want anything that could possibly lead to a 40 minute game; that I would have to deal with on a regular basis. Season 6 for me is very refreshing in it's fast pacing.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

With you all the way with point 2. I really can't stand how fast you can die in this game. It's like you die in 1 hit and there's NO time for micro or counter play, case and point every assassin ever; especially RENGAR.

Point 3 I'm personally REALLY happy with towers atm. If you have turrets that are too strong the game stalls out and that leads to needlessly drawn out, passive, boring games. The WORST THING about league season 4-5 was games taking too long to close out.

Season 5 was snowbally but it was hard to comeback and comebacks were hard. This thread doesnt aim for that

As for death timers, if anything I think we should go ahead and remove homeguards, or at least force it to being something you must INVEST IN like before. It makes it harder to exploit killing people to take objectives, thus leading to a drawn out game. IDK I've just played SO MANY 40 minute games in season 5 it kinda killed my soul, and I don't want anything that could possibly lead to a 40 minute game; that I would have to deal with on a regular basis. Season 6 for me is very refreshing in it's fast pacing.

Problem nowdays is current deathtimers force the game to end unfairly. They ruin the game for me in the end..

I prefered the patch where towers did diffrent things. LIke that shield thingy on secondary tower . I wish they had like 500 health more and 20 damage more

I like homeguards. They should just link them with inhibitors. If you kill inhibitor you disable homeguards for 5 seconds. Because lets face it this is why Riot increased the death timers. Homeguards basicly meant that the losing team can crush a winning team who was wounded because of previous fight. You could argue they overstayed and went greedy for inhibitor (What am i TALKING about Nexus whats the chance they only got to inh nowdays ) but when those stuff happend to me I didnt think my team overstayed

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