Make BotRK and Enchantment: Bloodrazor have the same passive name: bloodrazor

Irelia Bot·Apr 28, 2016·13 votes·7,100 views

THis is to try and stop an abuse case before it happens but I fear it might be too late.

Make BotRK be the better non jungle version of the Enchantment:bloodrazor by making it have the % max health damage passive be called Bloodrazor and do 4% max health instead of 6% current health.

This will save us from having to deal with champs like WW getting Blood Razor and BotRK and doing insane % health damage just because of his ult. Yes this will likely become a problem yet again.

It also makes the attack speed jungler item more in line with the other jungler items which have comparable counterparts bought by non junglers. aka sunfire=cinderhulk, warrior = Ghostblade/deaths dance, Runic echoes= luden's Echo

41 Comments

SasogwaApr 28, 20165 votes

Tbh it's hardly "exploitable". Both give an on-hit and a bunch of attack speed, but apart from the attack speed they don't especially synergize with each other. At one point you need tankiness anyway. Also I tested bloodrazer on PBE, it's kinda bad, really.

Pierce The VealMay 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Tbh it's hardly "exploitable". Both give an on-hit and a bunch of attack speed, but apart from the attack speed they don't especially synergize with each other. At one point you need tankiness anyway. Also I tested bloodrazer on PBE, it's kinda bad, really.

3% of max health does 60 damage against people with 2k hp. Not too shabby really, especially if the enemy team has much more hp.

The thing is botrk deals 6% current hp, which on average is around 3% max hp on average. Add on the fact that it deals even more when people are full hp, and that it gives sustain and AD on top of a great active: I'd be surprised if bloodrazor replaced it anytime soon.

KãtãrinãApr 28, 20164 votes

BORK is 6% of taregst CURRENT health bloodrazer is 3% of the targets MAXIMUM health. They are NOT the same so don't need the same unique passive lol. Also warrior doesnt equal deaths dance cause it doesn't heal you :P

Irelia BotApr 28, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Bad Doge,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L3qMpgXZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-28T05:07:09.512+0000)

BORK is 6% of taregst CURRENT health bloodrazer is 3% of the targets MAXIMUM health. They are NOT the same so don't need the same unique passive lol. Also warrior doesnt equal deaths dance cause it doesn't heal you :P

I am suggesting that they be ineffective when built together. Because I know that it could easily become the next sated rageblade

I even said in the first post that BotRK is current health and suggested it be changed to max health with the same passive name as Enchantment: Bloodrazor.

I know it is crazy but I do not like having WW take 60%+ of my health with his ult alone.

WenderwallApr 28, 20161 votes

WW should kill with his ult not do 60% damage.

I think they want Bloodrazor and Bork to work together, so that team comps vary. E.g. Bloodrazor jg counter if more armor not hp. Cinderhulk counter is bork/vayne.

Bloodrazor+bork (without lifesteal) are ineffective against any armor based champ.

EyesackApr 28, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L3qMpgXZ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-04-28T05:11:18.828+0000)

I am suggesting that they be ineffective when built together. Because I know that it could easily become the next sated rageblade

I even said in the first post that BotRK is current health and suggested it be changed to max health with the same passive name as Enchantment: Bloodrazor.

I know it is crazy but I do not like having WW take 60%+ of my health with his ult alone.

fortunately for you no one plays warwick

Irelia BotApr 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

fortunately for you no one plays warwick

If you make it worthwhile he will be played

TheThundersRoarMay 10, 20161 votes

Can confirm, went BotRK + Bloodrazor Warwick the other game.

It wasn't Sated-Rageblade level, but I tore through their Volibear like butter.

Irelia BotMay 10, 20161 votes

and they are buffing it...

AlwaysByMySideApr 28, 20164 votes

God forbid that junglers actually be allowed to be carries. Nothing more fun than being the second punk support bitch for the team by being forced to get a shitty version of a laner's item.

Steel BlossomApr 28, 20161 votes

BUT it's also cheaper.

AlwaysByMySideApr 29, 20163 votes

{quoted}

BUT it's also cheaper.

So?

It being cheaper doesn't change the fact that it being a shit garbage version of a pre-existing item means that the champions who it is meant for (Master Yi, Jax, Warwick, etc.) aren't going to be allowed to scale into their late game (which is where they are supposed to be strong) because they have a garbage jungle item taking up an item slot.

What made devourer the only jungle item that scaled was that it wasn't particularly strong on its own, for the most part, especially once bought. You needed to get it sated, and also needed more on-hit items to synergize with the phantom hit.

Bloodrazor is just a shitty Blade of the Ruined King without an active, AD, or any lifesteal. It's garbage and bad.

Steel BlossomApr 29, 20161 votes

So basically, a cheaper item means that you hit your "late game" power spike a bit earlier. And getting that powerspike earlier can very well mean a snowball that wins the game, especially in this fast-paced meta. If you can't understand that on your own, don't reply.

AlwaysByMySideApr 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

So basically, a cheaper item means that you hit your "late game" power spike a bit earlier. And getting that powerspike earlier can very well mean a snowball that wins the game, especially in this fast-paced meta. If you can't understand that on your own, don't reply.

I don't want to play a shittier version of, Kha'Zix, Elise or Nidalee. I'd just play Kha'Zix, Elise, or Nidalee.

I play Master Yi to scale, not to be a shitty version of an early game jungler. Nor to be another support bitch to the ADC and mid laner. If you want to be their bitch, by all means continue being their bitch, but I'd prefer to play an actual carry in the jungler.

Steel BlossomApr 29, 20161 votes

Ok, you have fun hitting your powerspike at 25 mins. I"ll go hit mine at 20 mins and overpower everyone. Let's see who ends up better in this snowball meta.

AlwaysByMySideApr 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Ok, you have fun hitting your powerspike at 25 mins. I"ll go hit mine at 20 mins and overpower everyone. Let's see who ends up better in this snowball meta.

Have fun being a worse Lee Sin.

Jungle Lux GodApr 28, 20163 votes

One of these items is a powerful item that is exclusive for junglers.

The other is a powerful item that is too expensive for junglers to build.

Unless you take smite into lane (which isn't reasonable) or you get fed off of early ganks (which is also very hard to do with most junglers that would build Bloodrazor over the other enchantments), you won't be getting both in your build, and if you do you are probably going to be at 2 items when your opponent has already well on their way to their third core item, if they aren't at their third item already.

UoL NicknameMyMay 12, 20161 votes

You obviously never saw the league of smite top laners.

Jungle Lux GodMay 13, 20162 votes

What made smite top laners strong isn't relevant anymore. None of the jungle items or enchants are worth having a useless summoner spell for 5+ minutes. What made smite top laners so strong is that Cinderhulk was oppressively strong and Challenging Smite was oppressively strong to the point where any top laner could buy them and win a 1v1 against any champion while still being able to build full tank, and none of the jungle items or enchantments do that anymore.

As a matter of fact Bloodrazor really isn't in a good place right now, and Blade of the Ruined King isn't much better, so there's really no chance of them getting abused in top lane right now.

trash sionMay 10, 20162 votes

Yes, because AS junglers need more nerfs. 40% winrates aren't enough.

Even so, passives are different. One is max, one is current. Unless you want BotRK to be Max HP, then this won't work. Riot certainly won't nerf BR to be current, and having them be Unique but have different effects screws with clarity.

Reaper ReviewMay 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azuk the Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L3qMpgXZ,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2016-05-10T16:29:12.626+0000)

Yes, because AS junglers need more nerfs. 40% winrates aren't enough.

Even so, passives are different. One is max, one is current. Unless you want BotRK to be Max HP, then this won't work. Riot certainly won't nerf BR to be current, and having them be Unique but have different effects screws with clarity.

Named unique passives don't have to be the same down to the letter. Look at Rage, where the version of it on Black Cleaver grants MS on any physical damage, unlike the other Phage items which only grant it on basic attacks.

Also, the fact that Titanic Hydra's named effects work differently than the ones on Tiamat/Ravenous, hitting in a cone as opposed to in a circle.

windwolf777Apr 28, 20161 votes

http://riot.com/1N2sVPL

Called it earlier it in this comment earlier that it's going to be item 3124 (phantom hit) item 3930 (new bloodrazor) and item 3153 for a patch then swiftly nerfed

SpoofghoulApr 28, 20161 votes

i agree except with the changing botrk into max hp damage

if anything most %hp should be current health damage imho

BluePolarizerApr 28, 20161 votes

Warwick taking only 60% of HP with ult after 10000 gold investment is terrible. Most champs with 10000 gold can kill with ult.

xxxDogmanxxxMay 1, 20161 votes

Where'd you get 10000 gold from? 2625 (Bloodrazor) + 3400 (BotRK) = 6025 gold

DREADN0UGHTApr 28, 20161 votes

I agree. Warwick ir going to be so scary once this item releases.

Bork: 6% max Hp per hit BloodRazor: 3% Max Hp per hit

Warwick's ult being 5 attacks that apply on hit effect: (5x6%)+(5x3%) = 45% max Hp of his target for his ulti. YEAH NO THANKS

Also, Kindred!

Bork: 6% max Hp per hit BloodRazor: 3% Max Hp per hit Passive: 1.5% max Hp per hit, per stack

Kindred auto attacks given she has 6 passive stacks, for example: 6%+3%+9%= 18% max Hp per attack

Now imagine that with runnan's hurricane! 3 targets lose 18% of their max Hp every time Kindred strikes. In a teamfight, that would be devastating!

Not that I wouldn't mind being of the giving end! hehe

Steel BlossomApr 28, 20164 votes

item 3153 's passive is % current health. Same goes for Kindred passive. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

DREADN0UGHTApr 28, 20161 votes

Your attitude matches your name! I bet you are a very friendly person.

That being said, maybe I did make a mistake, it doesn't make any difference. Kindred will be more powerful with that item.

JerulEonApr 29, 20161 votes

Why are you scared of WW? He still is kinda useless. Bloodrazor only does 3% max health, and BotRK was nerfed really hard this season so even if the effects stack, it's still not that much damage.

I would be more afraid of Kindred because it would literally give her ~3 free stacks and she's already super strong rn.

Irelia BotApr 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Why are you scared of WW? He still is kinda useless. Bloodrazor only does 3% max health, and BotRK was nerfed really hard this season so even if the effects stack, it's still not that much damage.

I would be more afraid of because it would literally give her ~3 free stacks and she's already super strong rn.

It is just an example that many might remember fron the preseason 5 devourer like item completely breaking him. WW would be able to often insta kill an enemy under turret if he ulted them and pressed Q after. That is why I bring up WW since he has proven to break on hit items that are otherwise mostly balanced on other champs.

JerulEonApr 29, 20161 votes

I see your point. I do remember challenging smite WW instakill people. Shudder.

Hopefully, he gets a rework soon because he needs one.

GrandShadowfoxMay 9, 20161 votes

Ive been getting good results with bloodrazor on elise and since the passive applies to each individual spiderling it means your basically doing 15% of max Health at max spiderling stacks add the percentage damage on your Q along with the added damage from your crystal scepter, liandrys torment combo you peel targets quick . though my matches havent gone in to late game that much i cant be sure how well it does overall so far i like blood razor and prefer it over runic echoes

Reaper ReviewMay 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Ive been getting good results with bloodrazor on elise and since the passive applies to each individual spiderling it means your basically doing 15% of max Health at max spiderling stacks

Spiderlings don't apply on-hit effects when they attack, though...

Pierce The VealMay 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Review,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L3qMpgXZ,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2016-05-09T05:10:24.157+0000)

Spiderlings don't apply on-hit effects when they attack, though...

Can you imagine what would happen if they did though?

Bloodrazor does synergize with elise's %hp kit, and does fit in with the original release AD bruiser elise build. I'm not surprised some people would find success with it.

GrandShadowfoxMay 10, 20161 votes

yea they do cuz it does proc your slow on crystal scepter

GrandShadowfoxMay 10, 20161 votes

nevermind just looked it up and yea they dont do on hit effects but you still do tons of damage

Pierce The VealMay 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

yea they do cuz it does proc your slow on crystal scepter

Bloodrazor does? Are you serious? Woah.

Reaper ReviewMay 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Bloodrazor does? Are you serious? Woah.

He was still talking about Elise's spiderlings.

Pierce The VealMay 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Review,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L3qMpgXZ,comment-id=000900000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-05-10T16:16:32.846+0000)

He was still talking about Elise's spiderlings.

Thought so. But still wouldn't have been surprised if bloodrazor applied spell effects cause riot has pulled that sort of stunt before.