Doing poorly with melee champs..

Der Lindwurm··2 votes·691 views

So, I'm still an LoL noob but I'm having some success in PVP with mages, marksmen, and assassins. Short range characters who can't zip in and do lots of burst damage are evidently still a huge blind spot for me, however. A perfect example of the kind of characters I'm totally sucking with right now is Shyvana. It seems like in order for me to get in and do any damage the enemy team has to be hopelessly disorganized, or the rest of my team has to be really good and shut the other team down so well that it's like they don't need my help anyway. Otherwise, if the enemy team's any good, it seems like it's so easy for them to stop me with stuns and slows and kill me in a few seconds without exposing themselves too much since I have to be out in front of my own mages and marksmen. Or they can just avoid me altogether if they don't have what they need to kill me. Sure, melee-heavy characters could easily take 1 or even 2 enemies down in an extended slugfest, but unless they're totally out of other options or it's one of those IP farming bots they're not going to just stand there and let that happen.

Any non-CC tank/fighter players who can give me some advice here?

Meh... I meant to post this in tips and tricks. Not sure how it ended up here instead, though I guess it does have to do with gameplay.

9 Comments

Lumus Avatar4 votes

I'm a big tank player. Playing melee breaks down to observation of the battlefield. It takes practice but you have to learn to spot your openings and you also have to understand that there are some opponents that will not give you any openings if you're alone.

Shyvana is a great melee fighter, however, pre-6 (before level 6) she does not have hard engage/disengage. You rely on Burnout for your fast in and fast out.

For Shyvana I recommend taking Burnout at level 1. Be aware that if you only use it to move, the speed and aoe damage only lasts 3 seconds, but if you land a basic attack while it's up, then it lasts 4 seconds. I use this almost exclusively for wave clear. Clearing waves keeps pressure on your enemy and if they are also melee, they won't want to cs while you are among your minions on fire. It also give you a way to harass: If you run near the enemy champ and hurt them with Burnout, it will not draw minion aggro. Whereas, if you basic attack the enemy, it will draw minion aggro.

As a melee champ, minion aggro is your best friend. You want to force your enemy to take minion aggro if they want to attack you. Stay close to your minions as much as possible. Focus on cs and let the enemy champ do whatever (dodge their skillshots, fall back among your minions if you see them approach to attack, use Burnout to keep them away from cs while taking as much cs as possible yourself. Your best course of action early game is to out-harass and out-last them.

At level 2, I take Flame Breath. With this, you can stand behind your minions and shoot the skillshot damaging the enemy minions and harassing the champ. Flame Breath applies a mark that as long as the sigil is above them, attacks made against them (champs and creeps) deal bonus damage based on max HP.

At level 3 I take Twin Bite. I use this to secure CS when the enemy champ isn't around. It's best use is in conjunction with Flame Breath. Hit the enemy champ from behind your minions with Flame Breath. Activate Burnout to run in quick. Twin bite the enemy champ and back off before minion aggro gets you. You will deal a significant chunk of damage.

Continue to chunk them down in this way. Once you hit 6, just chunk them until they are low and then Dragon Dive them for the kill.

After that it's all mechanics. Make sure to move around A LOT, Bait them out by approaching them and then turning back toward your minions. Hit them once then fall behind your minions to drop the aggro. It's a chess game when you play melee. They move, you respond. You attack, they respond. Try to control the game. Shyvana's only "CC" comes at 6 as her Dragon Dive can push the target. Be aware that no matter how far you push the target, you always land on the far side of them. If you dive toward their tower onto them, you will end up between them and their tower. This can be good, but be careful not to land under their tower. You'll die.

I hope some of this helps you.

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

Shyvana's taken quite a few nerfs, but she's still pretty strong.

I can only see one game in your history, which is an ARAM, but I'll try to give some advice. First, I notice that you seemed to be building Berserker Greaves, Ravenous Hydra, and what looks like Infinity Edge.

For damage, I would recommend Blade of the Ruined King as it gives sustain, lets her effectively duel, Twin Bite applies the passive damage twice, and it gives a Slow/Movespeed buff. Sunfire Cape is another good damage item when laning against squishy AD champions.

Shyvana doesn't really do well with too many damage items. She needs to be in the middle of the enemy team and has a lot of innate damage, so she's usually better off building tanky. I'd recommend playing her more as a tanky initiator, jumping into the enemy team to disrupt them and force them to focus you while you do a lot of AoE damage. If you die, then they probably wasted a lot of cooldowns on you can your team should have an easier time winning the fight.

Shyvana has a lot of damage in her kit, so you want to itemize durability.

In easy matchups (where you can fight the enemy), max Burnout first. Against harder matchups, maxing Flame Breath MAY (i repeat, may) be preferable to farm and harass from range.

For item builds, I would recommend something like: -Ninja Tabi/Mercury Treads/Ionian Boots -Sunfire Cape -Blade of the Ruined King -Locket of the Iron Solari/Banshee's Veil -Randuin's Omen -Thornmail

For masteries: 9/21/0 (Offensive masteries are AD)

For runes: Q - Armor M - AD S - Scaling Health G - Flat MR

Sammander2 votes

build tanky

Arch Mage Magnus2 votes

League is becoming a ranged beats all game. Drop melee champs.

SwampDucky2 votes

I think something you have to deal with as a tank who doesn't have CC is just accepting that you may not win the lane and instead should focus on just keeping as close as you can on creep. Especially as Shyvanna, she has difficulty with a few of the champs that are in the meta right now. Put your efforts towards surviving the lane phase and being a threat for their team late game!

Aithos2 votes

Melee champions are heavily dependent on building correctly and positioning well. For shyvana that usually means cutlass into some tanky stats and then finishing blade and your tank item. If you're against an AD toplane you usually want sunfire to add to your already mixed dmg and quick pushing and then you split push with TP available. There aren't many champs who can 1v1 stop shyvana from pushing once you've got some items.

In teamfights your job isn't to do damage, so get rid of that mentality or you'll never be a good bruiser/tank. Your job is to either 1) flank the enemy and ult their carries into your teams range to blow them up before they can respond or 2) peel for your carries so the enemy team can't blow them up. If you're chasing the enemy carries and getting focused down you are positioning poorly.

Der Lindwurm1 votes

Thanks so much for all the ideas for what to do with Shyvana! Though I was just using her as one example. I've had some pretty dissatisfying runs with other ground-pounders recently too. Two that I did a bit better with, however, are Riven since she can do so much burst damage and Xin Zhao since his E stuns and then you can apply still more CC (albeit to a single target) with his Q after that.

I just wish Shyvana's fire breath did a lot more damage (especially after she has transformed) though it hadn't occurred to me how useful it would be to mark an enemy champ that's getting attacked by minions. Playing too much Kat has put me under the impression I have to activate marks like that myself.

Lumus Avatar2 votes

You do have to activate those marks yourself, but they are not consumed. You can beat on them for up to 4 seconds and each basic attack will deal bonus damaged as a % of their max HP.

The tip about relying on minion aggro is applicable to all champs on Summoner's Rift (minions are considerably less helpful on Howling Abyss because they die so fast). The tip is, if you are near allied minions and you get attacked by an enemy champ, the minions will change their focus to your aggressor. If you have caster minions near you, this can mean a lot of damage very quickly.

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