Liandry's Torment need a new buildpath

CoolKnightST··3 votes·549 views

It currently doesn't feel Liandry's Torment is entirely build arround countering health stacking. I feel the issue comes from the buildpath. I was wondering what you guy think if we change it so the item is back more focussed on the passive. We can even buff the passive a little bit to compensate.

Secondly after the removal of the DFG we no longer have an pure AP item that provide cdr we have items like item 3504 item 3174 item 3060 item 3708 item 3025 item 3165 item 3050. But only item 3023 & item 3152. And even those item are still provided with a stat like movementspeed or spellvamp. That's point isn't really solid but this got me thinking on how a new build for item 3151 could look like:

  • Cost: 1250 + 820 + 730 (=2800)
  • Recipe: item 1058 + item 3108
  • Stats: 100 ability power, 10% cooldown reduction
  • UNIQUE Passive: Dealing spell damage applies a damage-over-time effect for 3 seconds that deals bonus magic damage equal to 4% of the target's current Health per second. This bonus damage is doubled against movement-impaired units and capped at 200 damage per second vs. monsters.

This could make the item an offensive alternative for item 3116


item 3136 will split ways from item 3151. Time for a different direction for this item. Let change it to more of a AP bruiser item. Maybe with some supportive options. The most logical build where riot already did some black market tests on was:

  • item 3136 + item 3067

As second build option we can pretty much go any direction we like but I think the an item with the build above will be a solid start.

I would like to get an option mind about this one. It feels to me a change like this would be necessary to forfill the needs of the item. What do you think?

9 Comments

HaIlMonitor1 votes

I kind of see what you mean because it is the item 3071 for mages but I dont think Liandry's should be a must build for champions like BlackCleaver is.

YumaS2Astral2 votes

{quoted}

I kind of see what you mean because it is the item 3071 for mages but I dont think Liandry's should be a must build for champions like BlackCleaver is.

Actually, item 3151 is meant to be the item 3153 for mages.

Partholonian1 votes

In that case, it needs a ridiculous amount of sustain and a really strong active. And a bunch of CDR, as the mage equivalent to AS.

...seriously though, flat magic pen and %HP damage really don't fit well together, since flat pen is most effective against people who aren't building MR, but HP and resists are usually built together because of how well they synergize.

Dragonlord71371 votes

The original premise of item 3151 was to give an option to build into after you bought item 3136 since it was core on a lot of champs way back when. It also served as a warning to the tanks on the enemy team as this meant they should stop stacking health since they would get melted if they did. I see the point in changing the stats on item 3151 but rather then make it part ways from item 3136 simply change the stats of both items rather then have them separate.

CoolKnightST1 votes

I'm not sure it's a good idea to adress the stats from item 3136. It might be a little bit to expensive right now in my opinion but it still has a place in the game. I always liked the item on support or when you are in a situation where you felt behind.

Mpen is really something that should be kept in the game and I actualy don't see why we should remove the health from it. The stats are really solid actualy. What they maybe could do is reduce the price to 1200 & nerf the mpen to 10. When you upgrade the item the mpen is back 15. Similar to the brutalizer concept. If the item wouldn't become to strong early on with an extreem change like that but I think it could be something in the right direction.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Liandry's passive already tends to be good with mages who have low/medium ratios and benefit from Mpen (like Zyra, Vel'Koz, and Brand).

Elphrihaim1 votes

Friend linked me to thread:

[I wrote]: I disagree and agree at the same time. [Redacted]: Taking Guise out of the buildpath for Liandry's is dumb. [I wrote]: Mainly because Liandry's current variant does do its job well (allow those that buy it to wear through tanks). [I wrote]: Changing it to be a high-AP item just makes mages in general (who are supposed to be countered by tanks ) good against tanks. [I wrote]: I agree that there is a hole in itemization, but I don't think that that's the right solution. V: [I wrote]: The lack of "high AP + has CDR" item does hurt certain mages quite a lot. [Redacted]: Well [I wrote]: But Liandry's' current passive would be a bit out of place on such an item, especially when amplified to that extent. [Redacted]: High AP makes skills hurt, leading to more damage. [Redacted]: More CDR leads to more frequent skill usage, which leads to... more damage. [Redacted]: Having both on one item seems a tad redundant. [I wrote]: I get why they haven't thrown one back in. [I wrote]: I'm just observing that plenty of mages crave such an item.

I agree that a high-AP item with CDR is missing. I don't think Liandry's Torment is the item passive that such an item would warrant, however.

Partholonian1 votes

{quoted}

I agree that a high-AP item with CDR is missing.

Aside from a full stacked Mejai's and assuming you don't count 80 as "high". But that's still more than there are items with high AD and AS on the same item -- IIRC BOTRK is the only item to have AD+AS at all, and its AD is a meager 25.

But I think the decision not to produce too much of a clone of DFG is probably an intentional one. Having to choose between getting the most out of each spell and being able to cast more spells seems like a good choice to have to make, actually.

Anyway, I agree that Liandry's DOT passive is a bad fit for CDR.

Maybe they would consider actually implementing some of the Lost Chapter family from Black Market Brawlers... I actually thought they were trying out replacements for Morellonomicon as part of an overall plan to remove Grievous Wounds, but so far, no dice.

SaltyKracka1 votes

"Give AP ratio reliant mages another overpowered item, completely orphan Haunting Guise"

What an excellent idea

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